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I don't think people are understanding where BC is coming from, a town mason is more likely to just immediately get rights, but if you look at scum mason;
Mason
At the beginning of every cycle, you may send a PM to me detailing who you would like to Mason with during that cycle. You may PM with that person for the full cycle. You may not choose a person you have already Masoned with for the remainder of the game. The Mafia team will have a set number of people to choose as Masons. Mafia with other roles (Roleblocker, Framer, Godfather) can double up on Mason roles.
They have to pick them. Do you think mafia right off the bat is going to grab the mason role and start yapping away? I think if BC is mafia, he is doing us a favor. I think masons should claim in thread, the faster the better. It forces mafia into an awkward position, or else they can't claim at all.
The only thing is why BC is insisting on running for mayor as well. It doesn't seem necessary. It displays a lot of self-interest which is what I fear. I must work now but I'll check in later.
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On January 14 2012 04:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:36 Mattchew wrote:On January 14 2012 04:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
If i am a red mason it means whoever claims i masoned will be town, period. I would never have to mason a scumbuddy as well, im already talking to them.
WIFOM Otherwise, Do you think that all masons should claim like you have? Assuming atleast 1 mason would be mafia it could lead to a high percentage day 1 lynch how is that wifom? Why would I as red ever out myself and another mafia in the same day? Especially when if i had used my mason somewhere else i would be counterclaimed and die? It would mean i would have to hold onto my use and have a scumbuddy claim and thus waste my own power to corrupt a townie? It is pure logic, not wifom. As for masons claiming? Things like this are what my claim were supposed to generate. Forcing people to only post in the thread for instance is a huge deal as it removes a scum form of play, etc...
It is WIFOM because there is no way of confirming your alignment or that of who you mason regardless of either one of your alignments.
Based on what you have said the possible outcomes are
You are town and die, the person you mason'd is a null read because you cant know for sure what alignment they are.
You are Scum and die, you mason a town -> we think the mason'd is town
You are Scum and die, you mason no one or a scum (kind of redundant) claiming to mason said scum team member -> we think mason'd is town
If you are town, survive, and the person you mason dies as town, we have a null read on you
If you are town, survive, and the person you mason dies as scum, we should have a town read on you
If you are scum, survive, and the person you mason dies as town, we have a null read on you
If you are scum, survive, and the person you mason dies as scum, we should have a town read on you.
If we are to believe what you say and you survive day 1/night 1 as scum mason and you claim a teammate, you become more and more powerful because you can then start masoning townies to further confirm your role.
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On January 14 2012 04:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:45 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On January 14 2012 04:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 04:36 Mattchew wrote:On January 14 2012 04:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
If i am a red mason it means whoever claims i masoned will be town, period. I would never have to mason a scumbuddy as well, im already talking to them.
WIFOM Otherwise, Do you think that all masons should claim like you have? Assuming atleast 1 mason would be mafia it could lead to a high percentage day 1 lynch how is that wifom? Why would I as red ever out myself and another mafia in the same day? Especially when if i had used my mason somewhere else i would be counterclaimed and die? It would mean i would have to hold onto my use and have a scumbuddy claim and thus waste my own power to corrupt a townie? It is pure logic, not wifom. As for masons claiming? Things like this are what my claim were supposed to generate. Forcing people to only post in the thread for instance is a huge deal as it removes a scum form of play, etc... The very fact you as a red shouldn't choose another red makes it wifom. You could do it in an attempt to give the other person cred in the event you flipped. How does me flipping red or blue give cred to whoever I picked? It gives you no information on them aside from the fact I mason'd them. I can talk to people, not confirm their alignment, or anything. If i say i masoned x and i die and flip, regardless of my alignment you gain no information on that player aside from I talked to them.
vs
On January 14 2012 04:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:17 Jayjay54 wrote:On January 14 2012 04:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 03:57 Jayjay54 wrote:On January 14 2012 03:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 03:49 Jayjay54 wrote:
I don't get it, BC. Why now?
From what I read here, you were on top of quite some voting lists, including mine? So why would you roleclaim when your campaign was good enough on its own.
Also, I'd like to line up with VE here. There's seriously nothing that says "I am town" here.
Or would you consider your claim a bad play if you were scum?
Therefore, I am glad that I didn't vote yet, because if I had, I had to unvote. Sceptical now. Being a mayor or sheriff whereas would rock does not outweigh what masons in generally can fuck up later in the game. I am one of whatever the end number is. If i don't get elected fine, however, is making everyone aware of at least one of the players who is capable of being active in pms a bad thing? As opposed to just saying "wow now your scummy" Discuss how we want to operate around masons, pros, cons, etc... Of all the roles in this setup, it is the only "confirmable role" but it is also insanely sinister as players can plant seeds of doubt, fish roles, etc... and that's kinda what you just did. you seeded doubt. why not win the campaign => roleclaim => comfirm. how would that in any why fuck up late game? the timing just seems off. Because i believe its important to get the discussion with as early as possible? Masons act the instant day 1 begins. Whereas all other roles act at night in the exception of a jack using their mason ability (i believe). This claim where "ill timed" only puts me at risk to a day 1 lynch to confirm my alignment. My role is confirmable. I can help assist the town via same actions I would do as a leader without the elected position, and with my claim mafia now has a hard time dealing with me. HOW as a group, do we want to deal with all masons as a whole? I say this as simply put. Not everyone is going to be a mason. Anyone could be mason'd. With a role that is potentially in the hands of both scum and town alike we need to discuss this now. Anyone who has seen me play before recognizes my stance on role does not = alignment, and with a powerful role like mason this shit has to be dealt with sooner rather than later. So you really think that having like 30 hours of discussion of how we should apply our masons do outweigh the pros of having a mason mayor? why is that? especially. when we not even know if you're a) a mason and b) town. Your role is not even confirmable at this point. Scum buddy " YAY he mason" Also, you say that with your claim it is hard for the mafia to deal with you. More than if you would've been mayor? How so? The discussion "HOW as a group do we want to deal with all masons as a whole" didn't really need a roleclaim. It would have started automatically. Hell, you could even haven given some ideas within your campaign. Sorry, I don't see any single reason why you would jeopardize your election with a roleclaim? Just to start a discussion how to deal with masons is really little - none benefit. On January 14 2012 04:02 EchelonTee wrote:
@jay, it was a posting mistake, that would be a pretty sorry way to try and get town credit. I have spreadsheets and stuff, which is where it came from. its not good practice imo to post tells without substantiation, thus I would've rather not posted that tidbit. And what's with the -mafia tag, is that just a dig at my post?
I don't like foolishness but that doesn't mean bm is bad. will return to this again later.
Current opinion on BC: wouldn't it have been better to get elected then mason one of your bodyguards? To get a tell on them? You already had a good shot at getting elected... I don't see as this scum though, more like a weird gambit.
Posted from phone, will post more later. You posted TL links. How is this coming from a spreadsheet? Do you have links in your spreadsheet? The mafia tag was a dig, yes. Your thoughts on BM and BC are right, though how is my role not confirmable? Say im scum and a scumbuddy says "yes he mason'd me" if i die and flip non mason red, both of us die and two mafia die? How is that effective at all.
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On January 14 2012 04:51 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 04:45 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On January 14 2012 04:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 04:36 Mattchew wrote:On January 14 2012 04:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
If i am a red mason it means whoever claims i masoned will be town, period. I would never have to mason a scumbuddy as well, im already talking to them.
WIFOM Otherwise, Do you think that all masons should claim like you have? Assuming atleast 1 mason would be mafia it could lead to a high percentage day 1 lynch how is that wifom? Why would I as red ever out myself and another mafia in the same day? Especially when if i had used my mason somewhere else i would be counterclaimed and die? It would mean i would have to hold onto my use and have a scumbuddy claim and thus waste my own power to corrupt a townie? It is pure logic, not wifom. As for masons claiming? Things like this are what my claim were supposed to generate. Forcing people to only post in the thread for instance is a huge deal as it removes a scum form of play, etc... The very fact you as a red shouldn't choose another red makes it wifom. You could do it in an attempt to give the other person cred in the event you flipped. How does me flipping red or blue give cred to whoever I picked? It gives you no information on them aside from the fact I mason'd them. I can talk to people, not confirm their alignment, or anything. If i say i masoned x and i die and flip, regardless of my alignment you gain no information on that player aside from I talked to them. he's saying that if you weren't a mason and you would booty call on your scum buddy to help you claim, then this could be wifom to save your scum buddy in case you turn red (in this very scenario)
how does this save them? Does my "masoning" give information on who I check? No. You could say its wifom but anyone I claim I have mason'd will get massive scruitiny as they were talking to me. if I die and flip red everyone i talked to will get reanalyzed for the chance they were a red scum buddy.
It is far more likely to only check townies, but as I said in the post you quoted, my alignment on flip tells you nothing about who I mason'd with. as red i could fake mason but recieve no benefit from it, as townie i will never know for sure if i choose is mafia or town.
All you will have is my flip.
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On January 14 2012 04:52 bumatlarge wrote:I don't think people are understanding where BC is coming from, a town mason is more likely to just immediately get rights, but if you look at scum mason; Show nested quote +Mason
At the beginning of every cycle, you may send a PM to me detailing who you would like to Mason with during that cycle. You may PM with that person for the full cycle. You may not choose a person you have already Masoned with for the remainder of the game. The Mafia team will have a set number of people to choose as Masons. Mafia with other roles (Roleblocker, Framer, Godfather) can double up on Mason roles. They have to pick them. Do you think mafia right off the bat is going to grab the mason role and start yapping away? I think if BC is mafia, he is doing us a favor. I think masons should claim in thread, the faster the better. It forces mafia into an awkward position, or else they can't claim at all. The only thing is why BC is insisting on running for mayor as well. It doesn't seem necessary. It displays a lot of self-interest which is what I fear. I must work now but I'll check in later.
read my posts after my claim, You will see that although I still want it, I don't actually expect it at this point.
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fucking mason claim why is it so easy to claim it as mafia now i need to think
also the the word for drama on scene? was good.
be right back
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On January 14 2012 04:53 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 04:36 Mattchew wrote:On January 14 2012 04:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
If i am a red mason it means whoever claims i masoned will be town, period. I would never have to mason a scumbuddy as well, im already talking to them.
WIFOM Otherwise, Do you think that all masons should claim like you have? Assuming atleast 1 mason would be mafia it could lead to a high percentage day 1 lynch how is that wifom? Why would I as red ever out myself and another mafia in the same day? Especially when if i had used my mason somewhere else i would be counterclaimed and die? It would mean i would have to hold onto my use and have a scumbuddy claim and thus waste my own power to corrupt a townie? It is pure logic, not wifom. As for masons claiming? Things like this are what my claim were supposed to generate. Forcing people to only post in the thread for instance is a huge deal as it removes a scum form of play, etc... It is WIFOM because there is no way of confirming your alignment or that of who you mason regardless of either one of your alignments. Based on what you have said the possible outcomes are You are town and die, the person you mason'd is a null read because you cant know for sure what alignment they are. You are Scum and die, you mason a town -> we think the mason'd is town You are Scum and die, you mason no one or a scum (kind of redundant) claiming to mason said scum team member -> we think mason'd is town If you are town, survive, and the person you mason dies as town, we have a null read on you If you are town, survive, and the person you mason dies as scum, we should have a town read on you If you are scum, survive, and the person you mason dies as town, we have a null read on you If you are scum, survive, and the person you mason dies as scum, we should have a town read on you. If we are to believe what you say and you survive day 1/night 1 as scum mason and you claim a teammate, you become more and more powerful because you can then start masoning townies to further confirm your role.
so? I confirm my role not my alignment. I have openly said it never clears the alignment of who I mason. How is this an issue? You knew this going in. I have a confirmable role not alignment. I said that in my first fucking post on this matter. I put myself in a hotseat all to out the potential butt fucking the mafia would give.
As for your WIFOM shit, i never once said you can confirm people I mason, you proposed that. You created your own argument on something I never said. Town should base their read on someone based on how they act in thread, not on the knowledge of "a mason mason'd this guy so hes legit/scum yo"
You will get a town read on me based on my actions. If i mason a scum, in pms he slips up and he dies and flips red because i outed his slip up I look better than I do now but am no way confirmed. If i do it multiple times maybe.
Where did I say that i am confirmable alignment? where did I say the person i mason is confirmable. My role is nothing else is. I still have to prove my alignment via posts just like everyone else. I am merely opting to fubar the mafia while im at it.
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On January 14 2012 04:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:46 Jayjay54 wrote:On January 14 2012 04:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
What you are suggesting is the selfish move. I am a member of the town. One member is not more important than the rest. Am I more experienced than some? yes. However, this move itself is annoying for mafia to deal with. For instance.
Say that we only allow masons to work in pm's who claim publically as an example. If a single person fails to claim and someone gets mason'd they die. In that case you either catch a dumb fucking townie or a mafia. Does town decide to just ignore all mason requests and operate with everything in thread? Are all pm chains going to be placed in thread, etc...
Eliminating a powerful weapon from the mafia is insanely beneficial tactic that benefits the town. So say my jeopardizing my own election fucks the mafias abilities in the grand scheme to corrupt or manipulate townies via pms? Is that not worth it?
Townies should do most of the major posting and plans in thread at all times, so they have no real reason to use pms whereas mafia gets huge gains. As a mason can only talk 1 a player once for 1 cycle in a game, it is more beneficial for them as they can manipulate but don't suffer the long term scrutiny they would get if they talked to someone all game.
so you're saying, you interfering with the mafias powers because you conjure up a mass claim? is that your point? Or what is? Because other than that your claim would just achieve nothing. No one knows, if you're really a mason (though I believe you here) and no one knows if you're town, since this claiming move could make sense while being scum as well. Ok, say the town agrees that everyone just opts not to talk to masons. You don't talk to them making them an essentially useless role. How is this beneficial as red? Every mason mass claims and all those who dont who are caught acting are lynched and die as a townie has no reason to hide the fact and only a red does. Again making it hard for mafia to act as mafia are forced to claim mason or not use their role, all claimed masons have greater scruitiny as we all should. In the event all mason's are town, then sure we die, however mafia offs the more useless of town blue roles. How as mafia does this make sense? It makes me look worse than I did before my claim, and I want people to actively discuss and potentially render my role useless? This is not mafia play at all. Which angle did I miss? The only way as red this looks good for me is "build town cred" at the cost of my entire team that I can see.
I am not saying you're scum. I just don't see the connection between your roleclaim and your plan to deal with masons.
How couldn't you made up this plan by itself, maybe even as part of your campaign?
Sample:
Under my mayorship every mason who masons is lynched. Bam.Problem solved. Discussion started. Everything as you wanted. No roleclaim whatsoever. Nice town mayor. Green trees. Happy feet.
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I vote we totally ignore this mason thing, and allow them to do what they will. Masons can help both sides, and can backfire for mafia. Additionally, the mafia masons have to worry about maintaining their townieness on two fronts. If the masons people use their intellect, we can make the mafia masons potentially backfire.
If their logs conflict at any point, we get a 1 for 1 trade.
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United States13896 Posts
Damn I thought we still had like a day until we had enough people to start this. I've got a lot of catching up to do by the looks of things.
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On January 14 2012 05:01 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 04:46 Jayjay54 wrote:On January 14 2012 04:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
What you are suggesting is the selfish move. I am a member of the town. One member is not more important than the rest. Am I more experienced than some? yes. However, this move itself is annoying for mafia to deal with. For instance.
Say that we only allow masons to work in pm's who claim publically as an example. If a single person fails to claim and someone gets mason'd they die. In that case you either catch a dumb fucking townie or a mafia. Does town decide to just ignore all mason requests and operate with everything in thread? Are all pm chains going to be placed in thread, etc...
Eliminating a powerful weapon from the mafia is insanely beneficial tactic that benefits the town. So say my jeopardizing my own election fucks the mafias abilities in the grand scheme to corrupt or manipulate townies via pms? Is that not worth it?
Townies should do most of the major posting and plans in thread at all times, so they have no real reason to use pms whereas mafia gets huge gains. As a mason can only talk 1 a player once for 1 cycle in a game, it is more beneficial for them as they can manipulate but don't suffer the long term scrutiny they would get if they talked to someone all game.
so you're saying, you interfering with the mafias powers because you conjure up a mass claim? is that your point? Or what is? Because other than that your claim would just achieve nothing. No one knows, if you're really a mason (though I believe you here) and no one knows if you're town, since this claiming move could make sense while being scum as well. Ok, say the town agrees that everyone just opts not to talk to masons. You don't talk to them making them an essentially useless role. How is this beneficial as red? Every mason mass claims and all those who dont who are caught acting are lynched and die as a townie has no reason to hide the fact and only a red does. Again making it hard for mafia to act as mafia are forced to claim mason or not use their role, all claimed masons have greater scruitiny as we all should. In the event all mason's are town, then sure we die, however mafia offs the more useless of town blue roles. How as mafia does this make sense? It makes me look worse than I did before my claim, and I want people to actively discuss and potentially render my role useless? This is not mafia play at all. Which angle did I miss? The only way as red this looks good for me is "build town cred" at the cost of my entire team that I can see. I am not saying you're scum. I just don't see the connection between your roleclaim and your plan to deal with masons. How couldn't you made up this plan by itself, maybe even as part of your campaign? Sample: Under my mayorship every mason who masons is lynched. Bam.Problem solved. Discussion started. Everything as you wanted. No roleclaim whatsoever. Nice town mayor. Green trees. Happy feet.
except in that case i have to trust people to claim someone masoned them. Instead you could get a townie so sure on someones guilt he claims that person mason'd him, that person dies. He flips non mason then we off said townie.
Someone claims x mason'd them and they did we off a townie mason.
someone claims x mason'd we off a mafia mason
x gets mason'd and doesn't claim period.
townies have a huge track record of screwing up in pms over the years to the point that some players excel at them. In this game, foolishness, myself, incog, zeks, opz, bumatlarge, etc... all have an advantage over players who have played for a shorter time. Ie we are more likely to perform well with the role and hide our intentions if we are red fairly well. Whereas a person we talk to could out their role, not out the mason, etc...
By making the town decide, vocally, now, we force everyone to have an opinion. This gets it out in the open now and in turn gives information on pretty well every player. Getting a huge topic that is polarizing in opinion day 1 gives early early reads on players. Using the role as a way to generate good early reads on players that is also a role that could fubar the town far more sinisterly than say a roleblocker or failed vig shot imo is more useful. If my role instead leads us to getting early reads on the scumteam and solidifying a town win what do i care if i never get to use my mason ability again?
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On January 14 2012 05:09 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I vote we totally ignore this mason thing, and allow them to do what they will. Masons can help both sides, and can backfire for mafia. Additionally, the mafia masons have to worry about maintaining their townieness on two fronts. If the masons people use their intellect, we can make the mafia masons potentially backfire.
If their logs conflict at any point, we get a 1 for 1 trade.
Mafia masons have the experience of an entire team to work manipulate someone. Townies only have themselves. The level of experience on one front is far more stacked then the other. By making people discuss what masons are allowed to do, or how they are allowed to act you instead cripple the mafia from the get go.
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BC, are you for or against a mass-mason claim? I like the idea behind the discussion this is generating, but I'd like your opinion as much as you'd like everyone else's opinion.
Personally, I'm torn on the mass-mason claim. It makes sense in that Mafia will be put to the decision to either kill them or let them mason away...but with their own masons, it seems to me like they'll probably avoid killing them as to not draw any attention to THEIR masons (by them surviving).
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On January 14 2012 05:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:53 Mattchew wrote:On January 14 2012 04:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 04:36 Mattchew wrote:On January 14 2012 04:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
If i am a red mason it means whoever claims i masoned will be town, period. I would never have to mason a scumbuddy as well, im already talking to them.
WIFOM Otherwise, Do you think that all masons should claim like you have? Assuming atleast 1 mason would be mafia it could lead to a high percentage day 1 lynch how is that wifom? Why would I as red ever out myself and another mafia in the same day? Especially when if i had used my mason somewhere else i would be counterclaimed and die? It would mean i would have to hold onto my use and have a scumbuddy claim and thus waste my own power to corrupt a townie? It is pure logic, not wifom. As for masons claiming? Things like this are what my claim were supposed to generate. Forcing people to only post in the thread for instance is a huge deal as it removes a scum form of play, etc... It is WIFOM because there is no way of confirming your alignment or that of who you mason regardless of either one of your alignments. Based on what you have said the possible outcomes are You are town and die, the person you mason'd is a null read because you cant know for sure what alignment they are. You are Scum and die, you mason a town -> we think the mason'd is town You are Scum and die, you mason no one or a scum (kind of redundant) claiming to mason said scum team member -> we think mason'd is town If you are town, survive, and the person you mason dies as town, we have a null read on you If you are town, survive, and the person you mason dies as scum, we should have a town read on you If you are scum, survive, and the person you mason dies as town, we have a null read on you If you are scum, survive, and the person you mason dies as scum, we should have a town read on you. If we are to believe what you say and you survive day 1/night 1 as scum mason and you claim a teammate, you become more and more powerful because you can then start masoning townies to further confirm your role. so? I confirm my role not my alignment. I have openly said it never clears the alignment of who I mason. How is this an issue? You knew this going in. I have a confirmable role not alignment. I said that in my first fucking post on this matter. I put myself in a hotseat all to out the potential butt fucking the mafia would give. As for your WIFOM shit, i never once said you can confirm people I mason, you proposed that. You created your own argument on something I never said. Town should base their read on someone based on how they act in thread, not on the knowledge of "a mason mason'd this guy so hes legit/scum yo" You will get a town read on me based on my actions. If i mason a scum, in pms he slips up and he dies and flips red because i outed his slip up I look better than I do now but am no way confirmed. If i do it multiple times maybe. Where did I say that i am confirmable alignment? where did I say the person i mason is confirmable. My role is nothing else is. I still have to prove my alignment via posts just like everyone else. I am merely opting to fubar the mafia while im at it.
On January 14 2012 04:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
If i am a red mason it means whoever claims i masoned will be town, period.
All I am saying is that this is not true and you saying that it is, is WIFOM.
I am not saying that you said your role is confirmed, I am saying that there is the realistic possibility of you or any other claimed mason to be scum and claim to mason scum
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Actually, thinking about it, I'm for a mass-mason claim. If mafia want to start targeting masons, they're only forcing their masons into the spotlight...and it will keep any non-claimed-mason shenannies to a minimum I think.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
BC, could you give a better explanation of why your claim benefits town? Is it simply to ensure that you are elected and have protection? You state that it is a polarizing topic that will generate discussion, but both scum and town can address the claim from both angles without giving up a whole lot of information about their alignment.
Why didn't you simply decide to run, get elected based on experience and popularity, and play the mason role as normal without public knowledge? To me, it seems unnecessary to open yourself up to a roleblock. The only benefit I can see is create a mason network for organizing blue information, but a day one claim is too early for this to be relevant and I don't see this as a beneficial plan currently with the thread of scum masons.
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I'd like to add that I think BC need to NOT be mayor this game so we can confirm his alignment.
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On January 14 2012 05:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
except in that case i have to trust people to claim someone masoned them. Instead you could get a townie so sure on someones guilt he claims that person mason'd him, that person dies. He flips non mason then we off said townie.
Someone claims x mason'd them and they did we off a townie mason.
someone claims x mason'd we off a mafia mason
x gets mason'd and doesn't claim period. [r]1[/r]
townies have a huge track record of screwing up in pms over the years to the point that some players excel at them. In this game, foolishness, myself, incog, zeks, opz, bumatlarge, etc... all have an advantage over players who have played for a shorter time. Ie we are more likely to perform well with the role and hide our intentions if we are red fairly well. Whereas a person we talk to could out their role, not out the mason, etc... [r]2[/r]
By making the town decide, vocally, now, we force everyone to have an opinion. This gets it out in the open now and in turn gives information on pretty well every player. Getting a huge topic that is polarizing in opinion day 1 gives early early reads on players. Using the role as a way to generate good early reads on players that is also a role that could fubar the town far more sinisterly than say a roleblocker or failed vig shot imo is more useful. If my role instead leads us to getting early reads on the scumteam and solidifying a town win what do i care if i never get to use my mason ability again? [r]3[/r]
[r]1[/r] That's right, but I still don't think mafia would really use this feature. Also you could've put into the campaign the things you are proposing now: ignoring all masons, or mason role claiming. Whatever you wanted. You make it a headline and the discussion works in the same way. My point still stands...
[r]2[/r] Absolutely correct. There are players who are great at manipulating, but how is that in favour of your claiming.
[r]3[/r] It also may be misleading because we have a huge discussion on mechanics rather than who would be a powerful mayor. Early scumreads would be great, but you could've achieved them without claiming.
In addition you post this here:
On January 14 2012 05:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
You will get a town read on me based on my actions. If i mason a scum, in pms he slips up and he dies and flips red because i outed his slip up I look better than I do now but am no way confirmed. If i do it multiple times maybe.
If you think your position is so bad now without somebody accusing you, why claim in the first place? To deteriorate your situtaion? Only to start a discussion? I'm afraid I don't follow your logic.
You answered quite a lot, yet couldn't provide any explainations convincing me that your claim was any good. Sorry. You lost my vote. And my trust 
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turns out the tag is [red] rather than [r]. sorry for the formatting
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Wow lots happened while I was asleep  Alright let's talk BC's claim.
BC's claim is actually pretty brilliant in my eye and here's why. Before claiming, BC was easily one of the top three candidates for mayor if not the top one. There's little doubt in my mind that BC would have gotten one of the elected positions. Now he could always claim once elected, however that's not a pressure position. He's got bodyguards and immunity from dt checks so there's no danger of dying if he's town, or being found out if he's scum.
However by claiming mid day like this it instantly puts a HUGE amount of pressure on him. All eyes are on him at the moment and his every action is being scrutinized. This is an extremely tough position to be in as scum. And so it begs the question, if BC is scum, what is the motivation for claiming like this? He had a great chance at being elected so why mess that up as scum?
With this claim BC is willingly taking the spotlight and the scrutiny. While he may be scum and have the biggest balls I've ever seen, I find it far more likely that he is doing his best to demonstrate his good intentions by willingly going on the hot seat. In conclusion, I can only think of town motives for claiming.
currently MIA: L, now would be a good time to start posting.
Things that are bad in a townie way: Palmar, I don't think you're scum but I'd appreciate if you put more effort into the game.
Things that are bad in a scummy way: People calling Palmar scum. Palmar is making himself a really easy target with his blatantly bad posting, it doesn't take much to call someone who's posting like him out. It's people trying to score townie points by looking like they're standing up and acting town when in reality they're just going after something that costs them no skin off their back.
Note this doesn't apply to people who have simply asked Palmar to play better (like me lol) I'm instead talking about the people who were like "zomfg lynch palmar."
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EPT
