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On January 14 2012 05:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 05:09 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I vote we totally ignore this mason thing, and allow them to do what they will. Masons can help both sides, and can backfire for mafia. Additionally, the mafia masons have to worry about maintaining their townieness on two fronts. If the masons people use their intellect, we can make the mafia masons potentially backfire.
If their logs conflict at any point, we get a 1 for 1 trade. Mafia masons have the experience of an entire team to work manipulate someone. Townies only have themselves. The level of experience on one front is far more stacked then the other. By making people discuss what masons are allowed to do, or how they are allowed to act you instead cripple the mafia from the get go. [...] If we mass claim masons while making them useless, they essentially become VT's, so the mafia have higher chances of hitting other blues. Intense scrutiny is better all around. Play smart and masons are a very pro-town force. [...]
I don't think mafia will go by chance. Yeah we will end up "producing" some VTs but mafia is going to kill whoever they are going to kill for a reason.
Either they think they need to kill X fast or at least faster than Y or they don't think so. The rolke of Z is pretty much no matter of interest to mafia unless they think that Z might be a dangerous because of his role or his style.
I still agree with sandroba about the mass claim however. I don't really see a downside to that. It's not like mason is a role that's going to be useless after claimed. If they get shot that's kind of fine with me because mason information is pretty wifom until we see the mason flip himself or the targets of that mason (what bc said, if he deliveres us a couple of mafias he's pretty much confirmed town).
At the same time they're immune to roleblock as someone pointed out and they're not forcing immediate reaction by mafia like a dt or medic would.
Those two roles would easily die instantly or be roleblocked but I don't really see that happening with masons.
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/Confirmed
Sorry guys, just did a fucking social written exam so I may not be keen on writing a ton so I'll try to keep active. My thoughts are pretty basic right now because I don't really feel day 1 is the best time to start (sort-of)tunneling after my experiences in my last game.
Foolishness - :/ Don't know why he buddied up to BM so hard so quickly without even seeing him play.
Palmar - Occam's razor dictates we should lynch this guy because he's displaying all of his supposed traits when he's mafia (never played a game with him as mafia before except when I was mafia and he was brilliant, but that was like a year ago).
Wherebugsgo -
On January 13 2012 19:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
wtf all you tryhards already have massive mayoral candidacies going?
-_-
I'll support sandro/Foolish/BC for mayor if I feel any of them are town. That'll take some reading. Which I don't feel like doing right now. Right now, I feel like playing Akali.
The rest of you: if you are voting anyone other than those three, please explain why.
This post ticked me off. First of all, he's making excuses outright for being inactive. Secondly, he's limiting the game to 3 people right off the bat, saying they won't need any reasons to elect other than your vote, but any other votes would. This is just weird and... meh.
BC - You're the current lead for who I'm going to elect tonight, but I'm most likely going to do it tommorow when I have more thoughts on you. My first impressions tell me that you're town aligned, but people are saying you're really fucking good as scum so I don't want to make the mistake of putting you in a DT-invul role.
On the whole mason thing, let's be honest guys it's like a 60% town read over scum read. It's pretty fucking neutral, but the fact he's being this transparent this early on leads me to believe that he's being town. Again, if he gets a mafia to claim mason for him, and he turns out to be mafia later on down the road, we get a two-for-one deal, which would obviously be awesome.
I'll be reading as it goes, trying to make up my mind on a few things!
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Oh, and I also agree that Mafia will have one candidate among the holy-shit-is-this-the-republican-party-election of the day.
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On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE.
I second that.
Come on out masons!
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On January 14 2012 05:48 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 05:47 Kurumi wrote:On January 14 2012 05:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 05:33 Kurumi wrote:
Have You been to the new Sherlock Holmes? It's good. Anyway, Meapak's reasoning sounds reasonable and I feel stupid for not getting such basic thing.
BC, do You think You'd be dead if not elected into office today? I feel like I might get shot? Mafia has to outweigh the importance of the mason role. Do they risk outing themselves faster by killing me, or keep me alive and hope that i get offed by town? Do I think I will die, at some point yes, totally depends on how the game rolls. Cool. I suppose You're going to try to confirm people through PMs, since fishing for blue roles is not something needed for a Town mason, right? Yeah, that's what everyone should just say open in the thread if it happens. Anyway. If You get elected we get very strong both town and scum player in the office, also You're really good in PM manipulation. The risks as for me, are still 50/50. If You're scum, we're fucked, if You're not, they're fucked. so is it safer to have him not in office in your opinion?
The worst part of this is that Scum can have double roles, so we could elect Scum Mason Jack and be fucked. But seriously, we either gain immune STRONG town player or we either get STRONG scum player. We either gain a lot or we gain nothing. I'd prefer us to have BC in the office.
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BC are you for or against a mass-mason claim? This is now the second time I've asked you. Please respond. I repeat, please respond to my query regarding the mass-mason claim.
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On January 14 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
BC are you for or against a mass-mason claim? This is now the second time I've asked you. Please respond. I repeat, please respond to my query regarding the mass-mason claim.
I am fine with either it, or having town just say "we ignore all pms that arent host pms"
Making every mason accountable / making them useless to prevent manipulation seems the best play at the moment.
making them all claim however is the optimal play, it may out the group of us, but it also prevents mafia from using their ability without being in the spotlight.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On January 14 2012 05:45 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 05:31 kitaman27 wrote:
I disagree with a mass mason claim. A mason is a town favored role. Denying the mafia mason is not the priority. I'd be more than happy if a scum mason tried to contact me, considering they are now pressured into openly sharing their reads. People tend to have loose lips when regarding pms, but if you always consider their motives and agenda then there is no problem. With a mass claim, the scum team is free to pick off or roleblock blues. Suppose there are 4 mason claims and two get shot night one and flip town. Does that tell us anything about the remaining two masons? Not really. this is a really bad post imo. 1) no it's most certainly not town favoured. the mafia gets to prove read every single PM. while mafia can just target weak players in our team and thus spread confusing. 2) how on earth wouldn't it tell us something about the remaining masons? you say that townies claimed wrong? because in this scenario 4 masons are claimed, 2 are most certainly mafia, aren't they?
1) I guess we have to disagree then. Even if mafia target weak players, those weak players still have logs of the agenda the mason is pushing on them. It is incredibly useful to have someone to bounce ideas off of in private, even if you don't know their alignment. In addition, it generates additional information that isn't available in the thread.
2) We don't know the role distribution. It is just as likely that there are 4 town masons and 0 scum masons as it is that there are 2 town masons and 2 scum masons.
For people saying there isn't a downside to a mass mason claim, of course there is. Mafia now has the identities of additional blue roles. Why am I the only one making any sense at the moment?
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On January 14 2012 05:51 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE. I second that. Come on out masons!
Masons hold your shit. Massclaims day 1 are ALWAYS a bad idea. It puts strain on medics, it hands the mafia blue roles without even trying, and it creates a ridiculous mess that would take days to sort out who was actually a mason and who wasn't. I dont know who thought up this massclaim idea but it's stupid and should stop now.
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I'm for a mason claim. While mafia would know their identities, it provides transparency for the town as well, and if a mason is under suspicion and he's not dying from mafia, it's more evidence against possible scum.
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I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.
So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*
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@meapak Generally I would agree, but have you thought about it? Read my post where I explain it. Now give me REASONS why it's a bad idea.
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On January 14 2012 06:01 GiygaS wrote:
I'm for a mason claim. While mafia would know their identities, it provides transparency for the town as well, and if a mason is under suspicion and he's not dying from mafia, it's more evidence against possible scum.
this is wifom.
mafia could purposely leave someone alive to get offed by town.
The upside to mason claim is
only claimed masons can actually mason, ie if 4 people claim and player x points out player y who didnt not claim we lynch 1 vig other if y was not a mason. It means mafia can only use mason if they are willing to be in a spotlight
downside
all masons are known and k illable if no red on the list.
The only other option is to carpet bomb deny mason usage, and all known people who mason after the decision get fubar'd.
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On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.
So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*
to be fair i have no mod confirmation that i was mason'd -_-
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On January 14 2012 05:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 05:51 Jayjay54 wrote:On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE. I second that. Come on out masons! Masons hold your shit. Massclaims day 1 are ALWAYS a bad idea. It puts strain on medics, it hands the mafia blue roles without even trying, and it creates a ridiculous mess that would take days to sort out who was actually a mason and who wasn't. I dont know who thought up this massclaim idea but it's stupid and should stop now.
well if town chooses to ignore the masons, than these guys are actually not blue. So they know the identity of two people without any power. yay. why would a medic protect a powerless masons?
And we also would take away a very powerful role from the mafia.
I think it's a great move, as I think good players can handle pming with mafia, worse players are actually manipulated. Plus, mafia gets to proof read, while town don't.
So again, here's the logic.
Scum Mason > Town Mason => eliminate all masons => 0>0!
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On January 14 2012 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.
So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*
to be fair i have no mod confirmation that i was mason'd -_-
...To be fair, do you think I would willingly violate the rules? I'm more about enjoying my experience of playing than winning. I'm above cheating at mafia.
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On January 14 2012 06:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.
So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*
to be fair i have no mod confirmation that i was mason'd -_- ...To be fair, do you think I would willingly violate the rules? I'm more about enjoying my experience of playing than winning. I'm above cheating at mafia.
fair point.
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On January 14 2012 06:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:On January 14 2012 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.
So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*
to be fair i have no mod confirmation that i was mason'd -_- ...To be fair, do you think I would willingly violate the rules? I'm more about enjoying my experience of playing than winning. I'm above cheating at mafia. fair point.
Thank you for that respect, good sir.
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On January 14 2012 06:09 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 06:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:On January 14 2012 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.
So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*
to be fair i have no mod confirmation that i was mason'd -_- ...To be fair, do you think I would willingly violate the rules? I'm more about enjoying my experience of playing than winning. I'm above cheating at mafia. fair point. Thank you for that respect, good sir.
so you're saying that the masoning has not been mod confirmed? or what rule didn't you want to violate?
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I definitely agree with Sandroba in regards to mason claims. Today however... That's the part I'm having trouble with as I don't really condone massclaims in large games this early. (Nor do most others).
I read some people saying to ignore PMs not from host. Is this really a good idea? Sort of defeats the purpose imho.
Also why did the mason mason the mason?
Right now, I'm wanting to vote one of kita, bum and BC or mayor. Of those running, I have the strongest townreads on those three or they are people I would be more willing to trust. Do we want BC superprotected or not? Like, BC, do you still really want to be mayor?
BBIAB, have to nap before work. <3
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EPT
