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United States2095 Posts
Very well, time for me to start posting.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 13 2012 17:28 VisceraEyes wrote:Look around you. Go on, go back to page 1 and take a good long look at the player-list in this game. I'll wait. You'll see some familiar names, some you don't recognize, some you love playing with and some you hate playing with. You'll see seasoned veterans and raw newbies. You'll see professional e-sports figures and people fresh off super-secret-probation. This is possibly one of the most diverse player-lists since XLVII. With such a diverse cast of characters, do we really want the same ol' mayor calling the shots? It's time for a change. My name is VisceraEyes. Some of you might know me as 'that crazy guy who used to post insane nonsense but who has come back actually making sense at least half the time'. Others might know me as 'isn't he that guy who shot the GF on N1 of Election Mafia?' Still others of you may have never heard of me at all. It is for all of these reasons and more that I'm nominating myself for Mayor of Liquidia. "But VE, surely you jest! No one would follow you!"You have a point sir, but please allow me to explain. I don't intend to 'lead' the town. I intend to play the game as I always do - by being as open and transparent with my reads/thoughts as I can possibly be. I intend to lynch scum today, and I intend to relentlessly hunt for the remaining scum WITH town in the days to come. In this way, if town is interested in hunting scum, they have to follow me, because I'll already be doing that. It's called lead by example, and it's something the vets have forgotten about. "VE, surely you can see the merit of having a proven veteran of TLMafia as the mayor, right?At this point, no. In the games I've played, it seems to me like the vets are all mostly interested in surviving the first 2 night-kills (if they're town) before actually playing the game. I'm tired of electing someone into a position, only to have them waste it by lurking and throwing out random pro-town tidbits in an effort to avoid getting killed while they collect data. What does this serve to do? Get random players killed while the Mafia try and kill that vet before they become effective, that's what. I'll be active the whole game, not just from D3 on[. I'll be lynching scum TODAY, and I'll be hunting scum with you guys starting X pages ago…not on D3. All right that makes sense, but I've got to know: are you going to be as effective at scumhunting as a vet would?I'm not going to lie, here. I'm probably not as good at scumhunting as some of the vets may be. But I'll tell you what I DO know. I know that I probably try harder than all of them. It's part of the reason I've improved as much as I have since I started playing: because I relentlessly look for the scums. And here's something else to think about: go over my last couple of games and tell me that my alignment was a mystery to you. Go on, look. I bet anyone here (including some of our fresher players) could go look through my filter of any given game and accurately predict my alignment. Can you say the same about any of the vets also running for mayor? I'm talking to you too, vets: can you honestly say that I'll be harder to read than, say, BloodyC0bbler? Or Meapak? I'm almost convinced sir, but I have one final question for you: who would you lynch if chosen to be mayor?I can honestly say that I have no idea yet who I'm going to lynch today (and who asks that at a time like this anyway?) But I promise that I'll take everyone's input into account should you choose to elect me, and the final decision will be a town decision.
I've bolded and underlined the part of this that is plain out wrong. Radfield in Election mafia was elected Mayor and proceeded to help town out an immense ammount. If Arctocod would have been elected he would have helped out a ton as well. Having a veteran in office is very important and I don't like that you're starting off by lieing.
I understand BC's claim, however its like he said. He has a 50/50 chance of being town or mafia. Everything else being brought up about it is WIFOM. Keep that in mind.
I agree completely with this statement below and will vote Protactinium for Mayor.
##Vote: Protactinium
On January 14 2012 01:18 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 14:56 Protactinium wrote:On January 13 2012 14:26 Ciryandor wrote:
/confirm
LOL I won't vote for Kitaman after XLVIII's disaster. He was an absolute derp in that. Waiting for people to put in a serious campaign with a decent policy. This is why I'm waiting for Mr. Wiggles and Cyber_Cheese to provide us with good reasons; and right now, Wiggles has the best campaign of the lot.
I of course wonder if Sandroba or Palmar will try to get to the elections again. I'm running for mayor on the platform of lynching Ciryandor. There's no way you seriously think Mr. Wiggles has the best campaign. Hey I agree with this guy, so I'm voting him. I am very much a fan of killing Ciryandor.
@Sandroba I've really enjoyed your posts so far. I'm a huge fan of lynching 0/1/2 BG's if you get into office (I realize this was Jackal's idea), but I'm glad you agreed with it. Make sure its completely random, flip a coin or draw straws if you do get in to office. If I had a second vote, it would be for you.
@RgTheScwarc you have said some bad things this game. You flip from being irrationally angry to happy, and are calling people pro-town or "not town" for very little reason. You also say "lynching bad townies is middle-bad", no it is simply bad.
Also, this Mason should mass claim thing is WIFOM. We won't know there alignment for sure, and already those who Mason will be in the spotlight by PM'ing others. While BC's claim does put him in the spotlight, it hasn't confirmed anything yet. And for now, instead of going insane over this, we need to figure out who we are electing and who they should kill. Those are the things we need NOW, if we use the Mason topic for those issues its fine, but we need to have this our focus so mafia can't control it by silently voting on someone. I want more talk from Candidates on their campaigns.
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On January 14 2012 06:22 Lanaia wrote:
I definitely agree with Sandroba in regards to mason claims. Today however... That's the part I'm having trouble with as I don't really condone massclaims in large games this early. (Nor do most others).
I read some people saying to ignore PMs not from host. Is this really a good idea? Sort of defeats the purpose imho.
Also why did the mason mason the mason?
Right now, I'm wanting to vote one of kita, bum and BC or mayor. Of those running, I have the strongest townreads on those three or they are people I would be more willing to trust. Do we want BC superprotected or not? Like, BC, do you still really want to be mayor?
BBIAB, have to nap before work. <3
I always personally enjoy being mayor as I am a high profile target normally. If town wants me there I will get it, if they don't I dont. I realize that my claim is something some people might trust me more or less over, but the purpose of it was not to get elected as well, I think my ability to get elected on my own merit would have been enough. I merely knew that discussing masons day one would lead to me claiming anyway as thus did it to begin with.
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United States2095 Posts
This is wrong as well.
On January 14 2012 06:06 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 05:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On January 14 2012 05:51 Jayjay54 wrote:On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE. I second that. Come on out masons! Masons hold your shit. Massclaims day 1 are ALWAYS a bad idea. It puts strain on medics, it hands the mafia blue roles without even trying, and it creates a ridiculous mess that would take days to sort out who was actually a mason and who wasn't. I dont know who thought up this massclaim idea but it's stupid and should stop now. well if town chooses to ignore the masons, than these guys are actually not blue. So they know the identity of two people without any power. yay. why would a medic protect a powerless masons? And we also would take away a very powerful role from the mafia. I think it's a great move, as I think good players can handle pming with mafia, worse players are actually manipulated. Plus, mafia gets to proof read, while town don't. So again, here's the logic. Scum Mason > Town Mason => eliminate all masons => 0>0!
Town's strongest weapon is finding inconsistencies and using logic. Mason's allow town to get more information for lynch. That is our strongest weapon. Scum Masons and Town Masons won't be given a free pass when they do PM someone, because they could be either town or mafia. So Masons simply give townies more chances to talk together and find Mafia. Having them all reveal themselves really only gives knowledge to Mafia. They now know where some of our blues are for future reference and can use this to gain a better chance at finding our more valuable blues.
So, saying Scum Mason > Town Mason is just not correct. Saying mafia gets to proof read, while town doesn't is correct, but every post from every mafia can be proof read. This isn't helpful knowledge to tell town and doesn't prove that Scum Mason > Town Mason. After all of this, hopefully you've realized Mass Claiming Mason is a bad idea.
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On January 14 2012 05:34 sandroba wrote:
Alright peeps here are the advantages of mass claim masons:
1) It forces mafia to come under a lot of scrutiny if they want to use the mason power. The plan is to watch these people closely and get a lot of the info out in the open, instead of allowing masons to operate in the shadows.
The strength of the mason role is that it opperates in the shadows. Forcing a massclaim basically says "well we don't need masons this game." If that's the route you want to go then ok but I'd prefer not to completely render masons useless
2) If mafia doesn't want the spot light they will probably not claim nor use their mason powers, which is very good for town. For this same reason we must not go on a witch hunt on the claimed masons, because they can be of any alignment and may be all town as well. We shall lynch people because of suspicious behavior, not because of trying to find mafia withing the masons.
This is true, however mason is a very strong town role and a much weaker mafia role, we're sacrificing a lot for the gain of a little
3) There is not much of a downside to it. If mafia wants to waste their roleblock/kill on mason by all means be my guest. It further protects our really important blue roles which is great. If they choose to ignore them we are back in the same place we we're before with extra info as town that mafia opted not to use. Which is great.
The downside is that masons loss their effectiveness.
Ok Sandroba, here are my responses to this post.
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sandroba is scum
other mason DO NOT claim
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also, scum masons are weaker than town masons. Town masons have the potential to catch scum, scum masons are literally worthless unless they manage to mason a player who is bad and they can manipulate. Even then the manipulated player is bad so he won't get listened to when he tries to do the scum's bidding. I have no idea where this impression that scum mason is a strong role came from -_-.
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I'm going with sheth here. It's nice that we got this discussion going and got some information we can work with but I'd like toget back to our mayor candidates.
I still have a bad feeling about bc and the only thing that's making me consider him is that wifom part because noone thinks a mafia would want to be in the spotlight that much. However according to what people are telling me about BC he's probably one of the few people who's capable of doing this without having a problem as mafia.
I know what sandroba thinks about the massclaim and that kind of helps me but I still want to know what he and other candidates are going to do with scum. What are your reads, who are you going to lynch and why?
I think we can and should wait with this masondiscussion until we got ourself a mayor
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On January 14 2012 06:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
also, scum masons are weaker than town masons. Town masons have the potential to catch scum, scum masons are literally worthless unless they manage to mason a player who is bad and they can manipulate. Even then the manipulated player is bad so he won't get listened to when he tries to do the scum's bidding. I have no idea where this impression that scum mason is a strong role came from -_-.
re-read fw's mafia XLII
everyone could mason 2 people and be masoned by whoever mason'd them. The amount of total chaos I created just via talking was so fing huge that mafia kept town basically locked up for the game.
Town masons have the potential to catch scum. Dts have the potential have finding scum. Vigi's have the potential to shooting scum. Jacks could do all 3.
Of the group, masons rely on their ability to read people and read posts to get a good view of someone. Catching someone in pms is not as easy as everyone thinks it is and historically towns have town far more retarded things there than good.
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as a note, heading to work, ill be back in like, 7-8 hours, possibly 9 if we are busy.
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Sheth....For real? That is your reason for voting for someones who already stated that their activity will be waning? Would all it take to get you to change to BC or Sandroba be a declaration of lynching Ciry or is it just because he has already chosen his lynch target?
Bill, I don't really think Sandroba is scum because he called for a mason mass claim. So did BC in a round-a-bout way. I personally don't view the role with much power, so I don't know. I've been trying all day to think of a way to make it useful, but seriously, just ignoring pms this game seems the most highly logical play I could think of. I mean, I'm still gonna try and pm you. <3 Ya Buddddddddy.  Welcome back.
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hmm BC told a story where he destroyed town as a mason. And was so afraid of masons that he immediately claimed. Either he's serious about that or he's scum. Both can be true.
So I guess yes, I disagree with some of you. And here's why:
I think that it is very very difficult to confirm scum in PM with whole mafia proof read backup. I also think that it is well possible for a well experienced player to manipulate somebody or find roles through PMs.
I hope, one can see my point. I can certainly see yours, but I just have a different opinion and therefore support sandros mass claim idea.
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The idea to randomly lynch 0,1,2 BG is basically, yes, random. I don't see why the mafia wouldn't make use of the subsitution ability. I don't know if they replace both or just one. 2 seems risky, but you never know.
I can't see any benefit of randomly lynching one BG when you have a 50/50 (in the 1 replace scenario) chance to kill your protector.
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Bc your example isn't indicative of mason activity as a whole. The game you refer to is an anomaly because like you said, everyone was a mason and had two uses. This would obviously a recipe for chaos even without mafia meddling. Ths game has normal mason rules and a lot fewer masons. While it's true that dumb townies do dumb things, as a whole mason is a stronger townie role in a normal environment. Scum masons must rely on stupid townies (which are a dime a dozen but ultimately do not have thread influence and won't really be able to help the scum goal).
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On January 14 2012 06:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
masons rely on their ability to read people and read posts to get a good view of someone. Catching someone in pms is not as easy as everyone thinks it is and historically towns have town far more retarded things there than good.
this. 100 times over. There is a greater chance scum misleads masons then there is masons catching scum in pm's.
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Jayjay pardon if this sounds patronizing but (correct me if I'm wrong) you've never played in a PM game or seen how powerful they can be. For a decent townie, PMs are extremely useful. As I've already said, mafia PMs are less useful. Bc did just give an example but like I said in my previous post, it's a bad example and not representative of PMs on a whole.
My point is this. A player like bc can be deadly with PMs as town, as scum it's much harder to be effective in a normal game so the damage he can do is significantly less as scum.
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On January 14 2012 06:48 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
masons rely on their ability to read people and read posts to get a good view of someone. Catching someone in pms is not as easy as everyone thinks it is and historically towns have town far more retarded things there than good. this. 100 times over. There is a greater chance scum misleads masons then there is masons catching scum in pm's.
Disagree. Maybe I put too much faith into the town's collective ability to think coherently but I maintain that it is easier to catch a scum via PM then it is for a townie to be mislead by scum.
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On January 14 2012 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Jayjay pardon if this sounds patronizing but (correct me if I'm wrong) you've never played in a PM game or seen how powerful they can be. For a decent townie, PMs are extremely useful. As I've already said, mafia PMs are less useful. Bc did just give an example but like I said in my previous post, it's a bad example and not representative of PMs on a whole.
My point is this. A player like bc can be deadly with PMs as town, as scum it's much harder to be effective in a normal game so the damage he can do is significantly less as scum.
what about the fact that we got pussy masons and no "real" masons?
I never played a pm game as well and when I was first told about masons I was not told about that restriction they got in our game. They're not allowed to pm the same guy multiple times.
Multiple times obviously referring to different cycles.
I don't know what that makes of our masons. The most scary part for mafia is a circle of confirmed townies. That's not possible with the kind of mason we got.
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I'm on 35. I'll have to catch up later.
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On January 14 2012 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Jayjay pardon if this sounds patronizing but (correct me if I'm wrong) you've never played in a PM game or seen how powerful they can be. For a decent townie, PMs are extremely useful. As I've already said, mafia PMs are less useful. Bc did just give an example but like I said in my previous post, it's a bad example and not representative of PMs on a whole.
My point is this. A player like bc can be deadly with PMs as town, as scum it's much harder to be effective in a normal game so the damage he can do is significantly less as scum.
Man, don't worry about it, you're fine <3 I am just glad that I joined and having some fun here 
I guess we agree that a powerful town mason can most certainly find scum. I guess we also agree that a powerful scum mason can cause a lot of destruction.
Town already has a percentage where he ends up PMing town. And the whole mafia thread backs up every PM to prevent scumslips.
Mafia ends up PMing 100% a townie and they will not choose the good players, because they know that they would be at risk. They talk to weaker players and there's a good chance that things are screwed up or a role is found.
So again, I think scum mason > town mason and I stand by that, even if I was never involved in such a game. It's just the way my logic sees it.
You say, BC can be deadly as town and you're right. Yet he chooses to give away this advantage, because he thinks scum PMs are too strong and even makes it a priority topic. Also, mafia would never mason him, because he's a strong player.
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United States2095 Posts
On January 14 2012 06:44 ~OpZ~ wrote:Sheth....For real? That is your reason for voting for someones who already stated that their activity will be waning? Would all it take to get you to change to BC or Sandroba be a declaration of lynching Ciry or is it just because he has already chosen his lynch target? Bill, I don't really think Sandroba is scum because he called for a mason mass claim. So did BC in a round-a-bout way. I personally don't view the role with much power, so I don't know. I've been trying all day to think of a way to make it useful, but seriously, just ignoring pms this game seems the most highly logical play I could think of. I mean, I'm still gonna try and pm you. <3 Ya Buddddddddy. Welcome back.
They haven't stated their activity will be waning. No just switching to lynching Cir wouldn't cause me to switch my vote.
On January 14 2012 06:48 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
masons rely on their ability to read people and read posts to get a good view of someone. Catching someone in pms is not as easy as everyone thinks it is and historically towns have town far more retarded things there than good. this. 100 times over. There is a greater chance scum misleads masons then there is masons catching scum in pm's.
If you believe there is a greater chance scum misleads town, do you think this applies to talking in the thread as well? Why would you post that Mattchew? Its all about thinking things through and not using WIFOM. You and BC are both using things that aren't applicable to this game. This isn't a past game and this game is all about thinking, its not obvious that one side or the other will be able to deceive their opponent. Its about who thinks and acts the best for their side.
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On January 14 2012 06:59 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Jayjay pardon if this sounds patronizing but (correct me if I'm wrong) you've never played in a PM game or seen how powerful they can be. For a decent townie, PMs are extremely useful. As I've already said, mafia PMs are less useful. Bc did just give an example but like I said in my previous post, it's a bad example and not representative of PMs on a whole.
My point is this. A player like bc can be deadly with PMs as town, as scum it's much harder to be effective in a normal game so the damage he can do is significantly less as scum. what about the fact that we got pussy masons and no "real" masons? I never played a pm game as well and when I was first told about masons I was not told about that restriction they got in our game. They're not allowed to pm the same guy multiple times. Multiple times obviously referring to different cycles. I don't know what that makes of our masons. The most scary part for mafia is a circle of confirmed townies. That's not possible with the kind of mason we got.
EBWOP: And thats the reason I did not think masons are that scary at all in our setup to begin with.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ARIZOPe9fAY/TkVsOQHcE5I/AAAAAAAABVQ/TAktPrEvmHc/s400/MADINA-3.jpg)
