EPT[T] MTG Mini Mafia - Page 31
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 29 2012 23:01 strongandbig wrote: Artanis, when you say that we can't use abilities during the block phase that sounds different than what you told me in PMs. If I can't sacrifice my creatures during the block phase it hurts my deck quite a lot. If a two hour block phase is too short for you to resolve creature abilities in what you think is a fair way, could we have a poll or something on going to a longer block phase? It's not just my deck - basic abilities like regeneration and blue bounce-blocking would be completely annulled if creatures can't use abilities during the block phase. Alternatively, what if we could set up our block phase actions during the attack phase? Make it so that you can't take back an action or attack during the attack phase, and then the other players can use creature abilities during the attack phase in response to other attack actions. Additionally, I have a suggestion to solve the problem someone mentioned above about timing problems like not being able to use a creature ability if someone else ninjas you and plays a kill spell or whatever. What if you resolved all spells and abilities targeting creatures or cast by them in proper stack order at the end of the main phase? That way people could still play spells and abilities targetting each others' creatures without it coming down to a timing question. I don't believe you understand your deck still if you think that not being able to sacrifice creatures during the block phase hurts your deck a lot. It's not because it's too short; it's to prevent "instants" from being used as response to actions (like waiting until the last minute of resolving time and then suddenly coming up with something someone else might want to respond to but doesn't get the opportunity to). That's why instants have been removed from the game and made as sorceries. Regeneration is an exception as it's an ability that ONLY works after the block phase, and would otherwise be useless. The problem with this is that people would wait with announcing their attacks until the last minute for optimal play. This way, people have a 2 hour window in any case. I'm fine with players announcing that they're locking in their attacks but I doubt that would be optimal for anyone. The problem with that once again is that people can wait until the last minute to cast something and someone else won't have a chance to reply. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On June 29 2012 23:13 Zealos wrote: I can't even work out who is mafia bandwagoning me, because everyone in the game is doing it. I'm suspicious of Nova. He seems very happy to kill me, then not think about the next target for his 8/8 creature of death that everyone wants to give him. Wait, so now you're saying (after you admit you were being anti town/lurking before) that im scummy because i want to kill you, and because i havent announced a target for 2 days from now Quit grasping at OMGUS straws. Theres no reason why i should be expected to have a target for 2 days from now, especially as you will still be alive AND I'm supposed to listen to the towns thoughts on who our beasts should attack. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On June 29 2012 23:14 Zealos wrote: Which I really don't get to be honest. Why are we so secure giving him such a powerful creature by night 2? because im town and im obviously scum if i misuse it | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
There is no way that revealing his sick damage spells would benefit scum; scum would definitely hide them. Instead, Fulla is trying to get mana so they can be used from our direction. No way scum would do that. Furthermore im starting to get newbie town vibes from him, which is good. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 29 2012 23:57 Nova_Terra wrote: Also i do want to draw attention to fulla. Not negative attention actually; i think hes town. There is no way that revealing his sick damage spells would benefit scum; scum would definitely hide them. Instead, Fulla is trying to get mana so they can be used from our direction. No way scum would do that. Furthermore im starting to get newbie town vibes from him, which is good. Not really sure on it. You say it looks townish that he's announcing his dmg spells. He has a red deck and everyone knows he has dmg spells in there. Yeah announcing your dmg spells looks good but do you really think a mafia would not do that? Do you think a mafia would just outright play them without telling us before? I'd say a mafia would do the exact same thing because just playing something that deals massive amounts of damage without telling us is basicly claiming mafia and therefore he has to announce it either way. On June 29 2012 22:06 Fulla wrote: @Were you say you're a bit weary of Nova, but don't want me to have anything? But would it not be far wiser for the power distribution to be fairly evenly spread? Right now Obe will be dead soon, and Nova will have an 8/8 creature, should he turn out scum and some of us have nothing, we're screwed. Say for example it turns out Grey and Nova are actually the scum, we'd have a powerful sliver deck with a town pumped up elf deck. In 2-3 turns after Obe is gone could we stop them? Especially if Zealos is in fact innocent and wiped out by us. Along with the unblockable Mafia Beast we'll get crushed easy, So I'll feel far more safer with us all having Can I get 2 mana back please to cast Electropence. Atleast then I have something. Whats everyone else's thoughts on this? Electropence is not really helping you right now. You have 3 lands in total and you have to pay 3 mana + cost of a creature to even use it. Right now that thing is useles both for you and for us unless we get another mana-boosting global so that we can push you to something like 6 or 7 mana so that you can pay both the electropen cost and the cost of your next creature (I only know of that 3mountain creature). I'd say we should try to get a "steady" creature out with out mana left on someone who's name is not Greymist, Zealos, Nova or Obe. I'd actually also be willing to give mana to S&B or Matt as well if they get a plain 1/1, 2/2 or 3/3 creature out that way to spread things out a little as you said. Even if one of them is mafia and we're wrong on Zealos, who cares about that one small creature and they can't all be mafia after all :p I wouldn't mind giving you mana for a normal creture either but a dmg burst creature that only lasts one round doesn't sound like the best move right now when we already got two 8/8 creatures. I know I can play a plain 4/4 creature for 3 colorless mana. Matt said somewhere that he could play a goblin with some mana if I remember correctly. Was that colorless mana as well or mountains needed? If someone else got someone useful we could do with the 3 mana we've left come out and tell us. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On June 29 2012 21:37 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Players can announce if they want to block beforehand by PM to me in case they can't make the deadline. But they can't say which attackers to block if those attackers didn't attack yet. Actually, yeah: People attack as soon as possible, that way people have time to decide if they block or not (even before the block phase). Attacking at the very last minute should be discouraged That should fix it. On June 29 2012 20:45 WereBugs-Go wrote: Btw heres the reason I'm not so sure on Nova: Gonzaw asked for heals after being attacked. Nova said he's not having luck drawing cards and might end up getting something the next turn. He then proceeds to search his library for that 8/8 trample thing that he knows he can't play in the near future by himself unless something weird happens. Something weird happens and he's able to cast it with our help..... I'm not too worried about that; I figured out: -He didn't actually have a creature whose ability could help me -He was way too focused on his own play and didn't even notice he could have gotten a card that could prolong my life. On June 29 2012 21:18 Nova_Terra wrote: I do have a card that could/will prolong oberyns life for an extra turn, but with only 4 of them in my deck chances of it being drawn are slim. I take it it's a Sorcery/Artifact? On June 29 2012 23:14 Zealos wrote: Which I really don't get to be honest. Why are we so secure giving him such a powerful creature by night 2? Because then I can get a powerful creature by NIght 2; and because Nova is most likely town and can greatly help town with it (before scum kill him) Zealos, you say you don't want to give me mana, but think of it this way: Nova already has his 8/8 creature out, and he WILL attack you; there's nothing you can do about it. However, I don't have shit and can't attack anybody. Do you think Greymist is scum? If you do then you can give me 2 mana, I summon the creature and attack him next turn; meaning I deal damage to someone you think is mafia. Do you think Greymist is not scum? Well then convince me, but if you think I'm town why wouldn't you give me a powerful creature anyways? | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On June 29 2012 23:09 strongandbig wrote: Why would a townie say this? If you are town you don't say you will "help" town, because you are the town. This actually feels like a third party-slip, but I doubt there are third parties in such a small game so I think zealos is probably scum. I read over greymists filter. It's hard to get a read on him because he was under attack right from the start for a pretty silly reason. I still think his "treat this like a magic game" paradigm is dangerous for town and makes him highly suspect, but I think zealos is scummier right now and pending talking to my brother I currently plan on attacking zealos. I get the feeling you are Grey's buddy, and you are just trying to "justify" your "target" for today's attack by grasping at straws. I get this feeling mostly because of these reasons: -S&B's posts "seem" town....however he isn't "obvious town" as Prome, WBG or maybe even Nova...he just "seems" townie; but doesn't do much with it. That appears to be the case of scum trying to "appear" townie, but not doing anything that actually benefits town (which is what makes those other people "obvious town"). Not only that, but like I said, he doesn't really do anything to contribute to town. Just like Greymist, his filter consists of commenting on several issues, but not trying to scumhunt himself. The first "opinion" on a player comes when I basically ask him for it: On June 26 2012 23:33 strongandbig wrote: I'm response to "what do you think of greymist": so far they have been wrong about both of the things they've commented on - my plan and their overall outlook on the game. Not sure if scum but definitely not bringing town in the right direction. I really hope you're not trying to ask me about his response to the nonsensical "pressure" about that "I don't like this card" comment because that pressure didn't make sense. He also avoids trying to make a stance on Greymist; first he says he's not sure, and now he's still not sure about him, even with all the things me/WBG/prome/etc said about him. I find him suspicious as well for this: On June 28 2012 07:25 strongandbig wrote: Hey so idk if my bro is gonna post in here too (we agreed on our play and he posted it). I'll just post my reasoning and if he posts his as well then great. I'm ambivalent on the "town beast" idea. Tbh we decided on our play before that was proposed, but I suspect we would have done the same thing regardless. Here's why I think the town beast isn't a good idea. First, it delays by a turn the buildup of decks of the people who give mana to play it. The scum monster gets to build up but our decks don't - given the ramp method of decks like ours, playing a creature each turn is very important. Basically, playing the town beast gives a jump in town power, but it doesn't increase the rate at which town will gain power over the rest of the game. It's like going for a two base timing instead of taking a third. Second, the downside is potentially quite large if it goes rogue. It's kind of like electing a mayor who says "I'll do whatever town decides" - there's downside. That said, I'm not convinced that the downside of point two outweighs the potential upside in increased town KP. If enough people have mana sitting around that would otherwise go unused, they should use that mana for whatever they see fit, including potentially helping summon the avatar of whatever. But I recommend that players with tribal decks or other buildup decks use their mana to build up their board position. kita told me that scum would most likely "think" we are town but oppose our plan, which is basically what s&b did. Not only that, but this makes me suspicious as well: On June 28 2012 06:56 strongandbig wrote: ##Cast: Swamp ##Tap: Swamp, Swamp, Swamp ##Cast: Nantuko Husk He immediately tapped all his lands/mana to summon a "weak" 2/2 monster, even though the Board card was already up and discussion about using it was already made. Yes, he may have "planned" to do that play....but Fulla planned on playing Electropotency and others planned other things....yet they didn't instantly reduce all their mana, and play them without previously talking about it. He could have done it as town....but it's still odd (again considering the circumstances) About his attack on Zealos: He's basically grasping at straws and using whatever he can to justify his suspicion on Zealos. Why would a townie say this? If you are town you don't say you will "help" town, because you are the town. This actually feels like a third party-slip, but I doubt there are third parties in such a small game so I think zealos is probably scum. I shouldn't need to state why this is a shitty reason for thinking someone is scum (tip: the "if you don't include yourself in "town" you are scum" scumslip doesn't exist and is done by townies more than by scum). So....that's his only reason for attacking Zealos? Nothing else? I don't buy it. Other players have mentioned other reasons for being suspicious of Zealos. Grey, Nova, Promo, and others posted reasons of their own about it (and good reasons); but s&b's reason is just shitty and I don't believe he'd think someone is scum based on that if he was town. The thing that doesn't make me be sure he's scum is that "I want everybody to attack each other!" plan he basically pushed down our throats on D1. It seems like a plan that would benefit mafia, but his execution didn't seem mafia, at least not what I would expect. He was very aggressive about it, and even when told it was a bad plan he kept pushing it, like if he was actually a townie that was convinced it would work. Sadly it's the only thing that makes me think he could be town, everything else makes me think he's Grey's buddy. What do you guys think? | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On June 30 2012 00:21 WereBugs-Go wrote: Electropence is not really helping you right now. You have 3 lands in total and you have to pay 3 mana + cost of a creature to even use it. Right now that thing is useles both for you and for us unless we get another mana-boosting global so that we can push you to something like 6 or 7 mana so that you can pay both the electropen cost and the cost of your next creature (I only know of that 3mountain creature). I'd say we should try to get a "steady" creature out with out mana left on someone who's name is not Greymist, Zealos, Nova or Obe. I'd actually also be willing to give mana to S&B or Matt as well if they get a plain 1/1, 2/2 or 3/3 creature out that way to spread things out a little as you said. Even if one of them is mafia and we're wrong on Zealos, who cares about that one small creature and they can't all be mafia after all I wouldn't mind giving you mana for a normal creture either but a dmg burst creature that only lasts one round doesn't sound like the best move right now when we already got two 8/8 creatures. I know I can play a plain 4/4 creature for 3 colorless mana. Matt said somewhere that he could play a goblin with some mana if I remember correctly. Was that colorless mana as well or mountains needed? If someone else got someone useful we could do with the 3 mana we've left come out and tell us.. I agree with this. Yes Fulla, your Electropotency would be a good card but only if you have the necessary mana. Now it's early in the game and we only have 3-4 lands out. Once you get 5-6 lands out then it will be possible to use it and therefore the turn before that is the best place to play it (i.e 1 or 2 turns from now). I also agree about having a townie get another creature out. I don't agree with S&B doing it (read above post), but I agree with Promo/Matt/WBG getting one. WB_G: He needs 3 mana to get a 4/4 creature out Matt: He needs to directly attack someone with his goblin (for 1 damage) to get his goblin warlord out Promo: I dunno if he has any other creature, but I guess he needs mana for using his Harrier's ability Giving 3 mana to WBG so he can summon his 4/4 monster, and letting Mattchew directly attack someone (not Zealos/Grey because they are likely to block, but maybe Fulla/Promo/WBG since they have 20 HP and are relatively safe for the next couple of rounds). That way we get 2 creatures on 2 (most likely) town players. | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
Him refusing to give me the mana is not helping (hell, him giving me mana is not even that necessary since I can already summon the 8/8 beast, the mana is so I can have an untapped Island to use AEther Spellbomb in the Attack phase if necessary) @Zealos: I can already summon the 8/8 beast without your help, you giving me mana will only make me able to cast the Spellbomb. Do you agree about me being able to use the Spellbomb or not? That's what you will be doing by giving me mana, so think about it | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
I suggest you tap both your "City of Brass" so you have mana to give to someone else (to WBG to let him summon his creature for instance). Also, can you explain to me why you decided to play 3 creatures with 0 attack points on Turn 1? Was it because you feared people attacking you (so you had something to block them with) or "just because" (i.e it was the only play you could do and you just did it without thinking about it too much)? | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
On June 30 2012 00:49 Oberyn wrote: @Zealos: I can already summon the 8/8 beast without your help, you giving me mana will only make me able to cast the Spellbomb. Do you agree about me being able to use the Spellbomb or not? That's what you will be doing by giving me mana, so think about it By this logic I suppose I may as well give you mana. I'm also happy with your choice of attack in S&B, your logic makes sense. I'll give you my swamp mana (Only have the one unfortunately.) | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 30 2012 00:49 Oberyn wrote: To be honest I get the feeling that Zealos is townie.....but meh it's a gut feeling and because Grey and S&B seem scummier than him in my opinion. Him refusing to give me the mana is not helping (hell, him giving me mana is not even that necessary since I can already summon the 8/8 beast, the mana is so I can have an untapped Island to use AEther Spellbomb in the Attack phase if necessary) @Zealos: I can already summon the 8/8 beast without your help, you giving me mana will only make me able to cast the Spellbomb. Do you agree about me being able to use the Spellbomb or not? That's what you will be doing by giving me mana, so think about it Actually we don't need the spellbomb this very turn. We're keeping the spellbombs for dealing with those 8/8 creatures or something else pretty strong. Those 2 can't attack this turn so you won't use your spellbomb anyways and using it on a 1/1 creature is simply wasted. Matt can attack me for one damage if that's what he needs. The Harrier should be used for the 2/2 creature so that we can attack Grey I guess. | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On June 30 2012 00:21 WereBugs-Go wrote: Not really sure on it. You say it looks townish that he's announcing his dmg spells. He has a red deck and everyone knows he has dmg spells in there. Yeah announcing your dmg spells looks good but do you really think a mafia would not do that? Do you think a mafia would just outright play them without telling us before? I'd say a mafia would do the exact same thing because just playing something that deals massive amounts of damage without telling us is basicly claiming mafia and therefore he has to announce it either way. I agree with Nova, Fulla is most likely town. Remember that for scum this is a foreign setup never played before, they will obviously try to tread carefully in the game and be more conservative about it. Basically scum are thrown into this game without "usual scum plays" to do (which are done in games with normal lynches/night actions), so I do think scum will try to play "for themselves" more then interacting with town. If Fulla was scum, for instance he could have tapped 3 Mountains and play Ball Lightning at the beginning of the day and that's it; later he can justify himself all he wants and stuff, but he first needs to get the action done. That's what makes me suspicious of S&B and Greymist because they are doing exactly that, they are "playing for themselves", being reserved about their plays/actions and not letting town interfere with them, that way they have more control on what they are doing and don't let town have the control (which could lead them to lose the game) Other than S&B and Greymist, Zealos is the only one playing similarly. WBG did tap most of his Islands and make a play....but he left 1 untapped and is revealing his hand and optional plays to town and letting us decide (kind of what Fulla is doing as well), and he's more likely town because of it as well. Matt could be another option, he's playing a little bit reserved, but he's still open about his play (he asked town to let us get his warlord out into play) and he let us "control" (influence more accurately) his actions (by telling him to give Nova mana for instance). I get the feeling scum won't be all "open" to town at this early stage and are more likely trying to figure out what to do in the game and playing reserved until then; and I doubt they will be "open" when they know doing that gives town a HUGE advantage (e.g: being "open" made us have 2 8/8 beasts). That's my opinion on this subject, which is what makes me think the likes of S&B and Greymist (or possibly Zealos) are scum and Fulla and WBG (and others that play "open" to suggestions and let town influence them) are town. | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On June 30 2012 01:00 WereBugs-Go wrote: Actually we don't need the spellbomb this very turn. We're keeping the spellbombs for dealing with those 8/8 creatures or something else pretty strong. Those 2 can't attack this turn so you won't use your spellbomb anyways and using it on a 1/1 creature is simply wasted. Matt can attack me for one damage if that's what he needs. The Harrier should be used for the 2/2 creature so that we can attack Grey I guess. I forgot I had this card in my hand, and I think it could be useful (instead of using the Spellbomb) ![[image loading]](http://mtg.neoseeker.com/w/i/mtg/thumb/d/d1/Chain_of_Vapor_ON.jpg/223px-Chain_of_Vapor_ON.jpg) I didn't say anything about it because I don't understand what it does lol! It says it returns a "non-land permanent" to someone's hand (like the Spellbomb) but then there's a weird bit about sacrificing a land and "copying" the spell and "choosing a target" and I don't know what it means. If I use this on Greymist's 2/2 monster.....what happens? | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On June 30 2012 01:00 Zealos wrote: By this logic I suppose I may as well give you mana. I'm also happy with your choice of attack in S&B, your logic makes sense. I'll give you my swamp mana (Only have the one unfortunately.) Tap "City of Brass" baby  | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 30 2012 01:09 Oberyn wrote: I forgot I had this card in my hand, and I think it could be useful (instead of using the Spellbomb) I didn't say anything about it because I don't understand what it does lol! It says it returns a "non-land permanent" to someone's hand (like the Spellbomb) but then there's a weird bit about sacrificing a land and "copying" the spell and "choosing a target" and I don't know what it means. If I use this on Greymist's 2/2 monster.....what happens? If you use that on Greymist he can choose to sacrifice one of his lands and can thus copy your spell on another target, for example novas 8/8 creature therefore returning it to novas hand rendering 8 mana we used this turn useless. | ||
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