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Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 307

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austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
December 04 2012 01:31 GMT
#6121
EBWOP:

Last sentence was the start of "Can anyone who is in the mason circle let us know if risk.nuke is speaking in there?" Someone else brought that up earlier today, and it was a good point. If his activity in game has dropped, but he's been speaking within the tent, then it's not so odd.
Fe fi fo fum.
Adam4167
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia1426 Posts
December 04 2012 01:38 GMT
#6122
On December 04 2012 10:30 austinmcc wrote:
As far as people who get something from a specific time we've got...Keirathi with 600 AD; Oatsmaster with 2300 AD; Adam wants 2300 AD as well. I'm down with 600 AD and doing whatever it is Keirathi needs done. Adam seems to want to shoot me (do you still want to? you're less active than me...) so I'd prefer he not get stronger, and Oats said whatever is in 2300 AD for him isn't super duper.


My issue with Z-boson was not activity related, he was pushing vig shots with horrendous reasoning. You're making a lot more sense than Z-boson was, so i'm willing to look elsewhere for now.

Ill probably blast VE tonight unless he makes a great case as to why I shouldn't.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
December 04 2012 01:39 GMT
#6123
More speculation: If Toad could summon Lavos EARLY with his ability, that almost certainly means an early lavos would be good for scum, bad for town (Grey could be messing with scum there, but it seems unlikely given he needed so many charges).

The only thing we DEFINITELY lose from Lavos being summoned early is more cycles. Cycles are good for lynching scum (hopefully) and traveling around, completing events

Because lynches aren't reliable, traveling around is probably good for us, otherwise Lavos being summoned early wouldn't be a negative thing. That...makes sense right?

Fe fi fo fum.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
December 04 2012 01:50 GMT
#6124
speaking of ve where the fuck is he?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
December 04 2012 01:50 GMT
#6125
On December 04 2012 10:38 Adam4167 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 10:30 austinmcc wrote:
As far as people who get something from a specific time we've got...Keirathi with 600 AD; Oatsmaster with 2300 AD; Adam wants 2300 AD as well. I'm down with 600 AD and doing whatever it is Keirathi needs done. Adam seems to want to shoot me (do you still want to? you're less active than me...) so I'd prefer he not get stronger, and Oats said whatever is in 2300 AD for him isn't super duper.


My issue with Z-boson was not activity related, he was pushing vig shots with horrendous reasoning. You're making a lot more sense than Z-boson was, so i'm willing to look elsewhere for now.

Ill probably blast VE tonight unless he makes a great case as to why I shouldn't.
I meant that, apart from knowing you want(ed) to shoot me, and wanting to go to 2300 AD to perhaps shoot me harder, I don't know know anything about what you think, because you're less active than the major voices.

As are a bunch of people, but none of the others shot me, so I'm more concerned with what you're up to.
Fe fi fo fum.
Adam4167
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia1426 Posts
December 04 2012 01:59 GMT
#6126
On December 04 2012 10:50 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 10:38 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 04 2012 10:30 austinmcc wrote:
As far as people who get something from a specific time we've got...Keirathi with 600 AD; Oatsmaster with 2300 AD; Adam wants 2300 AD as well. I'm down with 600 AD and doing whatever it is Keirathi needs done. Adam seems to want to shoot me (do you still want to? you're less active than me...) so I'd prefer he not get stronger, and Oats said whatever is in 2300 AD for him isn't super duper.


My issue with Z-boson was not activity related, he was pushing vig shots with horrendous reasoning. You're making a lot more sense than Z-boson was, so i'm willing to look elsewhere for now.

Ill probably blast VE tonight unless he makes a great case as to why I shouldn't.
I meant that, apart from knowing you want(ed) to shoot me, and wanting to go to 2300 AD to perhaps shoot me harder, I don't know know anything about what you think, because you're less active than the major voices.

As are a bunch of people, but none of the others shot me, so I'm more concerned with what you're up to.


Check my filter. I have concerns over VE. I thought Z-BosoN was scum and now i'm starting to think he was just incoherent. I thought GK looked pretty bad but I have reservations in the way he reacted to all of the pressure, it didn't feel like a scum reaction. S&B has made me look like an ass for me giving him a 'not scum' read and then going and killing Djodref, so he can die.

I seem to have too many town reads at the moment, so ill be chucking most of my reads out over the course of this cycle and starting back at the beginning.

Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
December 04 2012 02:09 GMT
#6127
VE is purely not posting.
Seriously into replacement/modkill territory
No gg, No skill.
Adam4167
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia1426 Posts
December 04 2012 02:18 GMT
#6128
Well we can only go by what hes put into the thread so far, most of which I find uninspiring.

Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 04 2012 02:41 GMT
#6129
My update to the case on Z-Boson. I've already laid out my intial reasoning following sandroba's flip:

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far.

IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went:
risk.nuke
Hopeless1der
Acrofales
kushm4sta
Z-Boson

Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote:
Vote Count

Kitaman27 (5): CaveJohnson, Kitaman27, Promethelax,phagga, strongnbig

Goodkarma (1): risknuke

Hapahauli (3): Hapahauli, Iamperfection, Clarity_nl,

Dienosore (1): Dienosore

Syllogism (14): Toadesstern, Acrofales, BioSC, Hopeless1der, djodref, keirathi, goodkarma, Adam4167, Syllogism, Oatsmaster, Marvellosity, TheChronicler, zboson (red for emphasis), sandroba

Remember that voting is mandatory.

All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)



I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo.
During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
  • risk.nuke
that is all.

Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked.
To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 02:10 CaveJohnson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2012 02:01 risk.nuke wrote:
On November 26 2012 01:46 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 26 2012 01:38 Djodref wrote:
On November 26 2012 01:24 risk.nuke wrote:
On November 26 2012 00:36 Djodref wrote:
On November 26 2012 00:26 risk.nuke wrote:
On November 26 2012 00:22 Djodref wrote:
On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote:
Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored.


I think it's because you are not active enough
I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you.

It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit.


Well, I would not vote for the following reasons
  • The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
  • The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
  • The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
  • The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....



I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread.

Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me.

As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him.

Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him.


@risk.nuke

You have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here)

Ok, fair enough.

Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho...

What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town.

TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim...

you think acro faked his copclaim as well?

Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient.


09:30 - Flip
09:51 - Acro's first post after flip
10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip
13:20 - Acro's roleclaim

Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus.

Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real.

I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.



Show nested quote +
On November 26 2012 07:57 Promethelax wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:48 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:43 Dienosore wrote:
haha, so does this mean toad is going to take 500 dmg bcz no is voting for him?

He says that since Oats placed a vote at some point during day 1 he didn't take damage. The vote doesn't have to remain on him for it to negate the damage (from what Toad has said)


do you believe Toad's role claim?

I don't dismiss it completely. I feel that we have two players that claimed a cop-role with redchecks on Toad, and that needs to be followed through next time we can get a lynch, but on the chance that he's telling the truth, I don't want him taking 500 points of needless damage. Unless it actually kills him, it won't really matter since we'd be lynching him next, right? I'm trying to cover my bases for the 'just in case' scenario. I don't see a significant downside to what I did, even if Toad is scum.


I felt that scum had a reasonable motivation to both support sandroba for party leader and not lynch him the following day. Z-Boson. When I determined that Z-Bo fell into this category, he was adamant that I was making things up and that I'd falsified/misrepresented the voting to make him look bad. His vote was not recorded correctly and he didn't seem to look much further into it than to conclude I was full of shit.

Only AFTER Mementoss updated the votecount did Z-Bo rescind his statements and admit to there being something amiss. HOWEVER:
On November 23 2012 07:53 Z-BosoN wrote:
Mod error, sand is not even in the vote tally.

Can we please get a corrected vote count??


He clearly knew something got screwed up earlier. Why wouldn't he immediately spring into action about my failure to read his filter properly, or at least point this out that there was an error?
On November 26 2012 08:25 Z-BosoN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2012 08:23 Hopeless1der wrote:
marv, do you find z-bo's response to my post to be overly defensive? I called him scum by association due to his vote, and he basically tells me I'm lying.


Dude, you're lying, I didn't vote for syllo. You can't even see the vote count you posted doesn't have any votes on syllo. A quick look at the voting thread will show you that I voted for sand.
I'm saying the truth, while you are being lazy and trying to make it seem like you are scumhunting.

This post was here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17027632
and our exchange is a little ways in both directions, but this post primarily illustrates my point
Once he realizes he's messed up, here is his attempt to discredit my case:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 08:34 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Hopeless
Actually, hopeless, I see what you mean now. I thought you said that I voted for syllo, but now I see that this is not what you said, I read it wrong.
In which case, your logic includes yourself as being possible scum. Therefore, if you were town, it's obviously bad logic, no?

Here:

Show nested quote +
On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far.

IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went:
risk.nuke
Hopeless1der
Acrofales
kushm4sta
Z-Boson

Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote:
Vote Count

Kitaman27 (5): CaveJohnson, Kitaman27, Promethelax,phagga, strongnbig

Goodkarma (1): risknuke

Hapahauli (3): Hapahauli, Iamperfection, Clarity_nl,

Dienosore (1): Dienosore

Syllogism (14): Toadesstern, Acrofales, BioSC, Hopeless1der, djodref, keirathi, goodkarma, Adam4167, Syllogism, Oatsmaster, Marvellosity, TheChronicler, zboson (red for emphasis), sandroba

Remember that voting is mandatory.

All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)



I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo.
During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
  • risk.nuke
that is all.

Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked.
To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 02:10 CaveJohnson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2012 02:01 risk.nuke wrote:
On November 26 2012 01:46 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 26 2012 01:38 Djodref wrote:
On November 26 2012 01:24 risk.nuke wrote:
On November 26 2012 00:36 Djodref wrote:
On November 26 2012 00:26 risk.nuke wrote:
On November 26 2012 00:22 Djodref wrote:
On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote:
Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored.


I think it's because you are not active enough
I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you.

It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit.


Well, I would not vote for the following reasons
  • The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
  • The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
  • The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
  • The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....



I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread.

Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me.

As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him.

Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him.


@risk.nuke

You have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here)

Ok, fair enough.

Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho...

What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town.

TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim...

you think acro faked his copclaim as well?

Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient.


09:30 - Flip
09:51 - Acro's first post after flip
10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip
13:20 - Acro's roleclaim

Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus.

Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real.

I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.



On November 26 2012 07:57 Promethelax wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:48 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:43 Dienosore wrote:
haha, so does this mean toad is going to take 500 dmg bcz no is voting for him?

He says that since Oats placed a vote at some point during day 1 he didn't take damage. The vote doesn't have to remain on him for it to negate the damage (from what Toad has said)


do you believe Toad's role claim?

I don't dismiss it completely. I feel that we have two players that claimed a cop-role with redchecks on Toad, and that needs to be followed through next time we can get a lynch, but on the chance that he's telling the truth, I don't want him taking 500 points of needless damage. Unless it actually kills him, it won't really matter since we'd be lynching him next, right? I'm trying to cover my bases for the 'just in case' scenario. I don't see a significant downside to what I did, even if Toad is scum.



All in all, I found it really scummy but we had red-checks to deal with.


His voting, and process for developing his reasons for voting are very scummy. First, his sandroba vote from Day 1:

On November 23 2012 06:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
Well, granted my thoughts on this setup, I'm staying with sandroba.
I don't like how syllo is not being transparent AT ALL, based on "don't want scum to know", which makes little sense to me, especially when he made the psot (4 hours to go). Imo, that would have been almost the perfect time to give us his town reads.
Sand has not been exactly graceful in this regard, but like I said, I feel that if he's scum he'll be too hard to pin down. I know that I'm saying this a lot, without too much back it up, but out of the candidates I feel best on him. I agree with his read on GK, especially after hapa's post on him.

##Vote sandroba.

On November 23 2012 06:58 Z-BosoN wrote:
EBWOP: ...I feel that if he's scum, hell be much easier to pin down...


He notes that sand should be easy to discern as scum if sand is in fact scum. He also gives a scumread on SnB and adam (falsely assuming adam is a lurking newbie)



On November 23 2012 09:31 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, am I the only one troubled that Toad is not posting relatively at all?
In LVII he was annoying as hell with huge posts, being SK (but trying to look townie), and I haven't seen him doing this here at all...


This is the first of his suspicions against Toad (Queen Zeal). When I point out that Toad wasn't even town in the game he referenced and that I'd like an example of TOWN Toad being different than the current game, he gives me:
On November 23 2012 09:39 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Hopeless
I don't feel like giving it much research before I hear from some people.
I'm only putting LVII on reference here, because he was much more proactive in looking for scum and giving his reads. Hugeass posts. etc

This is incredibly weak reasoning to pursue a scumread when he's listed SnB earlier, and there's ongoing discussion's about Sandroba. Oh yeah, Sando:
On November 23 2012 09:28 Z-BosoN wrote:
SNIP

So, @Syllogism, do you think sandroba's play is him being scum? He started out pretty good imo, but his absence here is not cool at all.

Fair reason to be suspicious. And we all know how town loves to sheep them some syllogism. So why did that not occur here?

On November 24 2012 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2012 03:05 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, I went through Sandro's filter, and other than his absence at some key moments I cannot find anything scummy. He seems to be playing pretty standard for him, calling people town with no reason given. However, I am looking forward to him waking up and starting to play again.

Another thing to keep in mind is that from a game-setup point of view it is very very risky to put people like Sandro+Syllo on opposite alignments. Not quite as bad as Coag+Jackal (and the only game I've played with both of them DrH stuck both of them on the scumteam), but not something you can do without making a very serious consideration, as they are well-known for having each other's number. I don't want to let this weigh too heavily, because meta-speculation about the host is really dodgy ground, but I felt it was worth mentioning.

Syllo+Sand: do you have a recent (last half a year or so) game where you were opposite alignments? 3rd party doesn't count.


So I take it you are not so familiar with his meta? Because both Toad and Adam seemed to give him scum reads on meta.

I'm also disturbed on how syllo is reluctant to give a read on him. I've asked him twice at this time, and he still doesn't take a solid position. There are two newbies using the logic "syllo won the event ergo sand is scum" and that's going unopposed. I don't get why he's not taking a position against sand.

I second that a game in which syllo and sand played together as opposite alignments would be quite instructive. That way we can tell just how accurate these vet reads being made are and I'll be more comfortable regarding people's reads.

For the record I'm opposed to a sand lynch at this time, until more people comment on the cases on him, at least. Right now there are much better lynches, more into that in a bit.

More on that eh? Alright, let's watch. I'll leave it to you, the reader, to go through his filter, but Z-Bo spends a good amount of time tunneling TheChronicler, but never places a vote on TC. Both Z-Bo and Acro go at him pretty hard, pointing out scummy contradictions (which at the time I saw and latched onto as well) but Z-Bo wasn't willing to back it up with a vote.

On November 25 2012 06:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
@TheChronicle
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2012 15:08 TheChronicler wrote:
On November 24 2012 14:48 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 24 2012 14:29 TheChronicler wrote:
On November 24 2012 14:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 24 2012 14:11 Djodref wrote:
On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote:
@TheChronicle

You keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=102#2037

At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt.

Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked?


@Z-BosoN

He has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected.


This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"?


1) Lol, you have to be scum. There's absolutely no way I can see you as town. I sat here for like five minutes trying to find the contradiction, then I realized this was just so much easier to explain if you/acro were scum together.


On November 24 2012 05:22 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote:
Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now...

Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo


On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote:
Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up.

Plan:
On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:
On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O


Useless. Don't post like this.

On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play.


Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa.

----------------------------------------------

I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses.

If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.

We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.


Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads.

On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"


[image loading]


Really, no contradiction? At all?


2) Really? Two people jumping on the same thing and both being equally wrong? I've given a lot of leeway with reading for this, but I can't find anything in my posts that say I would choose town reads. Why try and make something so easily checked like that up? Something so purposefully misleading only has scum motivation.


1) Except I didn't mention a contradiction. I just can't fathom what sort of "reads" you are gonna use if not town reads. refer to point no. 2.

2) You also did not post a single fucking thing on what sort of reads they should be. What other reads could there possibly be for you too chose your candidates? You didn't go into detail on this, and this is something important and supposedly an integral part of your plan.

This was an attempt, and the only one I actually found in your filter:
On November 21 2012 12:33 TheChronicler wrote:
On November 21 2012 12:31 Clarity_nl wrote:
On November 21 2012 12:29 TheChronicler wrote:
On November 21 2012 12:27 Clarity_nl wrote:
On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:
On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O


Useless. Don't post like this.

On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play.


Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa.

----------------------------------------------

I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses.

If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.

We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.


What in the actual fuck. Sure it's information but it's information impossible to decipher. Odds are you'll hit a scum somewhere in your massive pit of chaos but how will you tell the difference between him and the townie who just happened to get it wrong.


Scum will have to choose another person or risk showing their hand and causing the event to fail. Town can freely choose themselves since they know they'll only help with the event.

Doesn't seem chaotic to me. Why is it seeming chaotic to you?


Because you're throwing a second layer of wifom into the mix.


I'll take the information given by that choice over information given by a leader choosing based on his "reads". Seems pretty simple to me.

Do you want information from the choice of one person, or do you want information given from the choices of three people (four, kind of, since you still get information from who the leader chooses)?


But I view this as absurd and vague. How are you gonna choose? What's going to be your thought process? How are you gonna judge what gives more information and what does not?

I can't view someone choosing a scum read over a town read in this brilliant plan because it would give "more information". So my question remains: What sort of "reads" are you referring to??.


Lol the root quote has you saying


On November 24 2012 05:22 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote:
Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now...

Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo


On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote:
Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up.

Plan:
On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:
On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O


Useless. Don't post like this.

On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play.


Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa.

----------------------------------------------

I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses.

If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.

We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.


Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads.

On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"


[image loading]


Really, no contradiction? At all?


THIS is what a contradiction looks like and this is why posting a lot is pro-town. Scum will trip over themselves eventually.

2) You're right, I didn't. Why should I influence other people's choices? The best information is given by people making choices that haven't been influenced. The "reads" you quoted there at the end is referring to any reads by a single person. We're supposed to trust the reads of a single person who could very well be scum? Sylo isn't even confirmed town and we have Keir in thread saying he's near confirmed scum. What? No, all we know is that he picked a successful team. I think there's equal motivation for scum to succeed as there is to fail it, maybe more to succeed. I don't even know what happens if we fail the event, but it didn't look like anything happened when we won it. Maybe scum knows the results of a win/loss, maybe having a near confirmed leader was more valuable than risking another of their members to force a loss since that narrows the fault to the four people on the team, while success has now given them the chance to put the entire thread under suspicion. I guarantee if we failed the scrutiny would have fallen on the four and we would be lynching one of the four. How is that good for scum? Why am I the only one thinking of this?


1) I assumed the contradiction you were referring to was the two-line post you were responding to, not acro's post.

2) Ugh this makes little sense. Keir is not saying syllo is near confirmed scum. This doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever. Anyways, from your comment on keir it seems you are bunch oblivious to what ppl say and you have a reaaally weird thought process.

Anyways, perhaps I'm being too based upon on your contradictions and shit, and I realize that (somehow) you actually believed that what you were saying was. Anyways, I don't see how exactly your play is mafia-oriented, so I'll 180 and say you are town, for now.




Regarding my vote

I know I said earlier that I expected other people to easily be able to figure out sand, but I never figured it'd be this fast, this easy, and with so little discussion. I really don't like how easily his wagon took off, especially given the fact that syllo, who is basically telling people to sheep him, has disappeared (despite saying he was going to be more active today). This smells really fishy, and is not how I expected it to go down, at all.

Also, it grew extremely quickly, so either mafia decided to bus him fast or they actually want him dead. I'm inclined to think the latter, given that he's a strong player.

Additionally, sand seems to be heading into modkill-land. I really think this is a wasted lynch, especially when he said that he was going to be afk.

Right now I'd rather lynch prome (or even iamp), but I can live with a Toad lynch. Since we need to consolidate, and I don't have much time right now, I'll just go ahead and vote toad. Like I noted earlier, his play is totally different from when he was trying to look townie, and Acro's case is convincing enough. I'll comment more when I have more time. Have to go right now, but will post from cell phone should anyone have any questions.

Anyways, ##Vote Toaddestern.


This is the epitome of scummy behavior. Shitty reasoning to 180 his read on TC, citing the "speed" of the wagon and the possibility of modkills to avoid voting sandroba and again, pointing out that Toad is different than when Toad was "trying to look townie. Again, Toad was NOT town in the game Z-Bo is referring to and it is extremely fallacious of him to draw a comparison in my opinion.


There is now the problem of Z-Bo being replaced. austinmcc has made it clear that replacing into this game was not easy, and I can respect that point, but I don't have much of a reason to think he's town or scum, whereas I had an existing scumread on the person he replaced in for. I'm fine with lynching SnB today because that seems like an almost mechanically confirmed scum, but if I don't see anything special from austin to change this read, I'm pushing with all I have to see austin flip.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 04 2012 02:46 GMT
#6130
I don't particularly enjoy that people don't want to go to EoT strictly out of spite towards draz. However, there do seem to be a decent number of people who want to go back to 600 AD either for confirmed or suspected bonuses. I also have suspected bonuses in that era so I'll lend my vote to it.

##Lynch: Strongandbig
##Epoch: 600 AD
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 04 2012 03:35 GMT
#6131
Without looking at zbo's filter your case looks pretty solid hopeless, would you consider him your top lynch candidate after snb? I'll go read his filter tomorrow and give you some thoughts.

What is it you don't "enjoy" about people not wanting to go to EOT because of draz. It's not so much spite as it is weird that he's pushing for it.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 04 2012 03:58 GMT
#6132
On December 04 2012 12:35 Clarity_nl wrote:
Without looking at zbo's filter your case looks pretty solid hopeless, would you consider him your top lynch candidate after snb? I'll go read his filter tomorrow and give you some thoughts.

What is it you don't "enjoy" about people not wanting to go to EOT because of draz. It's not so much spite as it is weird that he's pushing for it.

Yes, austin is my top scumread primarily due to replacing Z-Bo. There's a teensy bit in there for hiding behind his replacement status, but he's at least putting some content into the thread so far. A good chunk is setup speculation, so I'll feel better once he's had a reasonable chance to get caught up, as he can't hide behind that replacement veil forever.

Regarding spite towards draz:
As you say, its 'weird' not scummy. I see it as spite towards draz for no other reason than that he's draz. That's an argument for vigging him down, not deciding where to epoch ourselves to, and that's why I have a problem with it. We weren't considering the merits of the EoT, we were considering the merits of not giving draz what he wanted. In any case, I have my own selfish reasons for going to 600AD. I'm not particularly expectant, as my role pm doesn't explicitly allude towards anything, but what the hell, right?

K I'm going to bed. 'Nite.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 04 2012 06:03 GMT
#6133
@ Hopeless

I'm parsing through your Z-Boson case and I don't agree with it at all. Your 3rd section (about his voting actions on D2) rather strongly indicates that he's town to me.

So Z-Boson has put heavy pressure on StrongandBig (who we're all expecting to flip scum) in the very early game. Then hypothetical scum-ZBo turns down a really easy bussing opportunity (Sandro) to... vote ANOTHER of his teammates? I'm not buying it. He's a bit all-over the place, but it's not scummy at all.

He definitely could be scum but I think his early-game actions speak against it. Furthermore, calling damage-night actions on a replacement is a pretty bad idea. Especially austin, who IMO is pretty easy to read.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
December 04 2012 06:05 GMT
#6134
On December 04 2012 15:03 Hapahauli wrote:
Especially austin, who IMO is pretty easy to read.

Off-topic and not entirely relevant, but why do you think austin is easy to read?

His only scum game was Aperture 2, and I thought you didn't follow that game?
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 04 2012 06:13 GMT
#6135
On December 04 2012 15:05 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 15:03 Hapahauli wrote:
Especially austin, who IMO is pretty easy to read.

Off-topic and not entirely relevant, but why do you think austin is easy to read?

His only scum game was Aperture 2, and I thought you didn't follow that game?


I read through it somewhere towards the end of GSL III Mini. Austin brought it up to me while I was trying to make a meta read on him. Austin has a very peculiar way of thinking as town that is often on early display in his games. His scum-game (Aperture 2), while reasonably active, also shows a pretty different analysis-mentality.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 04 2012 06:15 GMT
#6136
Oh Kei, since you're around, I've been trying to get people to hash out the case on me. I've really had nothing to respond to, and apparently you think I'm scum. Why do you think so?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
December 04 2012 06:23 GMT
#6137
On December 04 2012 15:15 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh Kei, since you're around, I've been trying to get people to hash out the case on me. I've really had nothing to respond to, and apparently you think I'm scum. Why do you think so?

I recently said I didn't think you were scum based on the mod PM thing, which pushed you back to null.

Your point about voting Toad day 2 rather than Sandro has some townie merit, but you have some things that keep you kind of in the neutral zone for me (the Prom case, trying to force yourself into the party leader after we had successful parties...I think there was something else, but honestly its too late to go look back through your whole filter).
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 04 2012 06:35 GMT
#6138
On December 04 2012 15:23 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 15:15 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh Kei, since you're around, I've been trying to get people to hash out the case on me. I've really had nothing to respond to, and apparently you think I'm scum. Why do you think so?

I recently said I didn't think you were scum based on the mod PM thing, which pushed you back to null.

Your point about voting Toad day 2 rather than Sandro has some townie merit, but you have some things that keep you kind of in the neutral zone for me (the Prom case, trying to force yourself into the party leader after we had successful parties...I think there was something else, but honestly its too late to go look back through your whole filter).


Well that's better to hear I suppose. May as well address the concerns since you mentioned them:

Prom Case:
At the time I thought his pushing of me was scummy. Probably a more than bit of blind rage/OMGUS on my part, but that's part of the way I scumhunt. A couple of times a game, I'll OMGUS/Tunnel someone until I think they're town or scum. This game, I've garnered town reads on Hopeless, Promethelax, and GK (not much of a tunnel, but suspicion nonetheless on GK) from this. We'll see where Phagga goes.

Speaking of Phagga, I'm currently having some reservations that push me closer back to null on him. While I still find his stuff on CJ and his early-game really scummy, he's had several opportunities to discredit me and push suspicion on me with other players taking the lead, and has taken no part in it. Something to sleep over I suppose.

My "Party Leader" Stuff:
Several people at that point in the game had a "townie/slight-townie read" on me, so I was hoping to get on the party, succeed, and live the stress-free confirmed-townie life that you and others are living right now. Night PM shenanigans got in the way of that however, so I'm stuck here running in circles.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
CaveJohnson
Profile Joined October 2012
278 Posts
December 04 2012 08:11 GMT
#6139
If we aren't going to EoT we should go anywhere but 600AD that place is a deathtrap and going there will surely lose us the game.
Mafia smurf
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
December 04 2012 08:12 GMT
#6140
On December 04 2012 02:44 iamperfection wrote:
Anyone find it wierd that I was roleblocked?


nope. it was my ability. I protected clarity but wasn't told my seed had been activated for most of this cycle.

On December 04 2012 02:52 syllogism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 02:51 iamperfection wrote:
I was trying to heal clarity

Prom says his role roleblocked everyone who attempted to visit Clarity. I'm not sure if I still understand how his role allegedly works though.


...I thought we were done with this bull shit Syllo. Even clarity understands it and he is greener than my drinks on saint paddy's day.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
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