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ZvT The Hellion Filter: Ultimate Anti-hellion Wall - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Catgroove
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden67 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 00:20:28
July 22 2011 00:19 GMT
#41
This is really interesting. I tried this on several maps with bigger chokes and it's definitely not doable with only one evo chamber and one spine without a queen. You can do it with two, or get one and a queen. Anyhow, I got some pictures on maps (only thoses in the map pool) where this can be usefu. You can obviously place the spine in the middle or whatever place that you want to, it doesn't really matter:

Scrap Station w/o Queen:
[image loading]

Tal'darim Altar w/o Queen:
[image loading]

Tal'Darim Altar w/ Queen:
[image loading]

Couldn't get it to work on Scrap Station with one queen and one evo, oh well.

Feel free to add to the main post or link to this post for future reference.

pandaminion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States270 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 00:25:39
July 22 2011 00:24 GMT
#42
-Edit- ninja'd.

Leenock has also been doing this kind of hellion-proof wall, with a Queen as a sort of "door" to prevent hellions from getting in. This kind of 'wall-off' is very good, especially seeing how hellion openings are becoming more and more common.
nick00bot
Profile Joined November 2010
326 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 00:31:15
July 22 2011 00:25 GMT
#43
ty catgroove for those pics, Ill add the scrap station pic and link the other two since there is already a taldarim pic.

Btw, is the second pic a full wall off? i remember seeing rootslush wall himself off with 2 evos at mlg so im not sure if its drone permeable or not.


@hatchet wound: ty
SoO~Speed~Serral~$o$~Dark~Myungsik~TY~Byun~Classic
hooktits
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States972 Posts
July 22 2011 00:28 GMT
#44
i really like this idea happy to see a fellow zerg doing his part for the entire swarm ^_^ good job son keep up the good work
Hooktits of Tits gaming @hooktits twit
Catgroove
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden67 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 01:09:43
July 22 2011 00:48 GMT
#45
On July 22 2011 09:25 nick00bot wrote:
ty catgroove for those pics, Ill add the scrap station pic and link the other two since there is already a taldarim pic.

Btw, is the second pic a full wall off? i remember seeing rootslush wall himself off with 2 evos at mlg so im not sure if its drone permeable or not.


@hatchet wound: ty


Second pic is like your wall off, same with the first one. Wasn't that the whole purpose so that a drone can fit but not a roach/hellion/whatever.
fuzzytoad
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada57 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 01:07:03
July 22 2011 01:05 GMT
#46
On July 22 2011 07:10 aebriol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 07:06 pt wrote:
can't you already block hellions with a single queen on the ramp?

Nah but with 2.



No, it is possible with one, if you position her 100% correctly. Otherwise, hellions will squeeze through (they will be slowed by collision with her, but can make it through.

Ah, and on tal darim altar, it is possible to block with an evo and a queen only, again assuming you position her perfectly. The spine is unnecessary.
nick00bot
Profile Joined November 2010
326 Posts
July 22 2011 01:17 GMT
#47
On July 22 2011 09:48 Catgroove wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 09:25 nick00bot wrote:
ty catgroove for those pics, Ill add the scrap station pic and link the other two since there is already a taldarim pic.

Btw, is the second pic a full wall off? i remember seeing rootslush wall himself off with 2 evos at mlg so im not sure if its drone permeable or not.


@hatchet wound: ty


Second pic is like your wall off, same with the first one. Wasn't that the whole purpose so that a drone can fit but not a roach/hellion/whatever.



yeah it was I was just making sure, but thanks for clarifying
SoO~Speed~Serral~$o$~Dark~Myungsik~TY~Byun~Classic
yeastiality
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada374 Posts
July 22 2011 01:58 GMT
#48
This is really cool. I normally try to do walls like this with big buildings like evo chambers, cheap tech (roach warren, baneling nest) etc. Completing a wallin with a crawler is obviously great because after it unroots you can move bigger units through.

Can you fit something like an ultra through the footprint of a spine crawler? I doubt it but I haven't checked....
nick00bot
Profile Joined November 2010
326 Posts
July 22 2011 02:48 GMT
#49
ok so just checked, and good news.... THE ULTRAS FIT. so now there is pretty much no disadvantage ever to doing this wall

[image loading]
SoO~Speed~Serral~$o$~Dark~Myungsik~TY~Byun~Classic
-Jambi-
Profile Joined September 2010
United States60 Posts
July 22 2011 03:17 GMT
#50
Does this work for tournament maps? Because I am not sure about this working on MLG maps, or tournament maps where the ramp is modified....
arbitrageur
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia1202 Posts
July 22 2011 03:27 GMT
#51
Dude this is actually really good. Well done.
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
July 22 2011 03:29 GMT
#52
lol haha, what is with the 'that is top right bro' repeated over and over? Otherwise, this looks really cool.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
Disquiet
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia628 Posts
July 22 2011 03:36 GMT
#53
On July 22 2011 06:49 babyToSS wrote:
The big problem with zerg wall ins is that if terran sieges near your natural, it becomes very difficult for the zerg army to break that tank line unless you have broodlords with lots of corrupters.

this is silly, wow would the wall make any difference? if the terran sieges outside your natural chances are things aren't going to go well anyway. if for whatever imaginary reason you don't like the wall after the hellion harass is done you can just move the spine and kill the evo.
arbitrageur
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia1202 Posts
July 22 2011 03:43 GMT
#54
On July 22 2011 06:49 babyToSS wrote:
The big problem with zerg wall ins is that if terran sieges near your natural, it becomes very difficult for the zerg army to break that tank line unless you have broodlords with lots of corrupters.


You're clearly a very low level player. You severe have misconceptions about how high level ZvT works.
Arisen
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2382 Posts
July 22 2011 03:49 GMT
#55
By doing this you're doing exactly what the Terran wants. No good Terran is trying to end the game with hellions by roasting a millions drones. If he sees an oportunity to do so, then yeah, he's going to take it, but he wants you to waste money on static defenses (and extra evo's you won't use for a long time) and stay on your side of the map. You'r accomplishing everything he wants for him. You're much better advised to use your resources on 5 roaches, as they allow you to take back map control and pressure the terran back.

If you get caught completely with your pants down, I suppose this is useful, though, although I don't see how you get caught with your pants down, as you should be taking Reaper or Hellion into account off 1 gas, and blue flame, Banshees, or hellion drop off 2 gas. Unless you couldn't scout his gas timing, but you should catch the reactor with scout lings.
"If you're not angry, you're not paying attention"
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
July 22 2011 03:49 GMT
#56
On July 22 2011 07:39 pt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 07:10 aebriol wrote:
On July 22 2011 07:06 pt wrote:
can't you already block hellions with a single queen on the ramp?

Nah but with 2.


Rhetorical question. I was implying that you can block ramps with 1 queen so this is probably useless.

Yea, 1 queen and then 1 spine crawler overlooking the ramp to prevent hellion kiting is pretty good, but the queen can still be vulnerable if you get caught off guard by some kind of mass hellion strat. If that queen dies you pretty much lose, and from that perspective this type of wall in is a little safer
Dodge arrows
Catgroove
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden67 Posts
July 22 2011 03:52 GMT
#57
On July 22 2011 12:17 -Jambi- wrote:
Does this work for tournament maps? Because I am not sure about this working on MLG maps, or tournament maps where the ramp is modified....


You could just drop one or two evos to block the evo chamber completely if you're really desperate, but you'd have to have some units to support that and not just do it without units like this wall. eg if you're trying to surround him and he's aiming for your ramp, you can just place an evo chamber to block it and then get the surround.
arbitrageur
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia1202 Posts
July 22 2011 03:55 GMT
#58
On July 22 2011 12:49 Arisen wrote:
By doing this you're doing exactly what the Terran wants. No good Terran is trying to end the game with hellions by roasting a millions drones. If he sees an oportunity to do so, then yeah, he's going to take it, but he wants you to waste money on static defenses (and extra evo's you won't use for a long time) and stay on your side of the map. You'r accomplishing everything he wants for him. You're much better advised to use your resources on 5 roaches, as they allow you to take back map control and pressure the terran back.


Being a low grandmaster zerg, I completely disagree with everything in this paragraph.
Catgroove
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden67 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 04:00:47
July 22 2011 04:00 GMT
#59
On July 22 2011 12:49 Arisen wrote:
By doing this you're doing exactly what the Terran wants. No good Terran is trying to end the game with hellions by roasting a millions drones. If he sees an oportunity to do so, then yeah, he's going to take it, but he wants you to waste money on static defenses (and extra evo's you won't use for a long time) and stay on your side of the map. You'r accomplishing everything he wants for him. You're much better advised to use your resources on 5 roaches, as they allow you to take back map control and pressure the terran back.

If you get caught completely with your pants down, I suppose this is useful, though, although I don't see how you get caught with your pants down, as you should be taking Reaper or Hellion into account off 1 gas, and blue flame, Banshees, or hellion drop off 2 gas. Unless you couldn't scout his gas timing, but you should catch the reactor with scout lings.


First you're saying that you won't use the evo chamber for a long time, assuming everyone plays the same and always get upgrades much later, so it will be worthless, right? But then you're saying that it's better to get roaches to take map control and pressure the terran back. If you're going for the standard muta/ling/bling aren't you wasting money on a roach warren and 5 roaches when you wont be using them anyway?

Your first argument would've been true if everyone played the same, but some people get upgrades early, (sup losira, destiny etc) believe it or not.

Your last argument would've been right if you're NOT going for the standard muta/ling/bling. I don't understand how you could argue like that. Sure you can take back map control and pressure the terran, but how much pressure can 5 roaches really apply this late in the matchup? Not much.
Jaxtyk
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States600 Posts
July 22 2011 04:07 GMT
#60
Cool tricks u got TS. I'm sure this will be a useful trick for zergs. Seeing how vulnerable zerg is on open naturals, this sure does help. Thanks.
To tell the truth....I could beat anyone in the world.
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