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On July 24 2011 01:26 Aterons_toss wrote:
Wait i might be retarded but aren't the drones kinda lining up when they pass trough there... so won't 3 BFH just instantly fry all those drones if they are lined up like that.
i thought the whole point was that you spot the hellions with ovies/watchtowers then move drones preemptively
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about the bottlenecking:
banchan is definitely spot on with his above post right there ^, but also something to consider is that drones naturally line up anyways when you are going up a ramp, BUT because it is a low ground wall instead of a highground one, hellions dont have high ground vision so your drones can escape much quicker than they would otherwise. also instead of having your queen(s) tied up in the ramp, you can have it blocking hellions during the short window of time where drones are lined up
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Check out this weirdness on the new map Antiga Shipyard apparently all the spawns are not the same
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 27 2011 10:13 Tag wrote:Check out this weirdness on the new map Antiga Shipyard apparently all the spawns are not the same + Show Spoiler +
It's difficult to tell since you don't have grid enabled on the pictures, but it looks like you may not have walled correctly. You can check out this thread for a means to make sure you never miss a standard ramp wall (if indeed that's the case):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214208
Also, your bottom right one doesn't have enough creep, which is why you can't put that evo chamber there.
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HAHHAHAHAHAAHHAAHA AWESOME!
I always thought the spinecrawler would let hellions through, but no!
This is brillant nick. If we have a 'like' system on TL I'd give you a thousand or more of them.
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On July 27 2011 10:30 michaelhasanalias wrote:It's difficult to tell since you don't have grid enabled on the pictures, but it looks like you may not have walled correctly. You can check out this thread for a means to make sure you never miss a standard ramp wall (if indeed that's the case): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214208Also, your bottom right one doesn't have enough creep, which is why you can't put that evo chamber there.
Thats not the point i was trying to make.
The creep spread to the ramp from the natural is uneven on Antiga Shipyard, which is kinda odd for a blizzard made map.
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On July 23 2011 12:12 Emporio wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:27 Angry_Fetus wrote:On July 22 2011 13:00 Catgroove wrote:Sure you can take back map control and pressure the terran, but how much pressure can 5 roaches really apply this late in the matchup? Not much.
I agree with the rest of your post, however, you really haven't seen how powerful early roach timings against terran can be. Watch Sheth play ZvT. He often does an early 4-6 roach push (roach warren on 26, stop droning until they are out) and then just pumps drones after. Those few roaches can do a ton of damage to a terran (especially if they open helion), and provide valuable scouting info. Yeah but you can't do the roach push AFTER the hellion opening happens. The roach push works because Terran cuts marine production to make hellions which can't do anything against roaches. Once he already had hellions he's not going to have only hellions by the time your roaches reach his front door.
Look, no you don't do roach pressure after the hellion harass, you do it as it's coming in. You don't see the factory and think "oh, it's time to make roaches", that's retarded, He'll have his natural and bunkers up by then and your roaches won't do jack shit unless you're playing roach infestor. It's your job to know before then. You throw down a warren at 25 food in response to seeing fast gas and do the 5-6 roach pressure. Roach openings are strong versus every terran fast gas opening except banshees (imo), so it's your call if you go for roach pressure on seeing 2 gas, I've seen Sheth play both ways. The most common fast gas openings are goign to be hellions and reaper. Roaches fare decently against both, but are supremely strong versus hellion openings. It delays your lair tech if you're the type who goes for extremely fast mutas, but is a solid way of opening and takes out all sorts of randomness from early game ZvT as roach pressure makes you safe from just about everything. Even if he is going for banshees and you're caught off gaurd, you have time to defend while you're pressuring his front as he has to use banshees to defend. If he's doing some stupid early stim timing you can back up and use extremely beefy roaches for defense. If he's going for a FE, it delays his expo until he has seige mode or a decent amount of MM. It forces bunkers from economically focused plays and delays his expansion while giving you room to drone and take a fast third and keeps you safe from all sorts of one base play.
Watch 10 random ZvT's Sheth has played and you'll see this build in the majority. It's a good build, and something every zerg shoud be aware of. We're not all IdrA and have insane unit control to hold off 4 hellions with 4 lings and a queen on TDA (the other flaw of this type of play is wider naturals where the terran can abuse your spine placement or force more static defense while he powers like crazy), this is a relatively effective build to let zerg dictate the flow of the matchup.
I know there are a lot of forum heroes who post their credentials and say that will never work or is wrong, etc, and most of the time they have no idea what they're talking about (see: A lot of people who responded to my post). Sheth uses this a lot, so he obviously thinks it's a vaible way to play the mathup, and if you're reading this, unless your name is Greg Fields or Jos de Kroon, you probably are not a better Zerg player than Sheth. Just saying.
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sexy, i seem to lose every ZvT that i play when the T opens hellions this should be very helpful thanks man 
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I've been doing this for months using a roach warren + spine. U jelly? I'm fairly certain it's a must these days. The hellions are coming out faster, and a lot more aggressive. Holding off with just queens + lings is quite problematic :/
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Thanks for thise brilliant placement, I hate going against Hellions, It was definatly a pain in the ass with the 'The really a lot of hellions' build going around. Plus with mech BF Hellions are showing up alot more in TvZ I never understood why they weren't used much anyways Zergs dump minerals into Zerglings, Hellions eat Zerglings plus can do mineral run bys. Thanks once again for the placement.
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Nice, will try this as soon as I suspect the terran to go for hellions
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EPT
