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ZvT The Hellion Filter: Ultimate Anti-hellion Wall - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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galtdunn
Profile Joined March 2011
United States977 Posts
July 22 2011 16:17 GMT
#81
this looks awesome...

and btw, blocking a ramp with 1 queen requires really good placement.
Currently editing items in the DotA 2 wiki. PM for questions/suggestions.
Honeybadger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States821 Posts
July 22 2011 17:03 GMT
#82
Whatever happened to good scouting and a double queen block? It's really, really easy.

Lategame, however, It would work... but by then, your natural is mined out...
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
GuardianEU
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands488 Posts
July 22 2011 17:28 GMT
#83
seems like a very nice find! yes you can block your ramp with 1 queen, but that relies on very good positioning. and to be fair, would you really risk the loss of the game(seeing as your units prolly aren't there or you wouldn;t need the block) with such a precise positioning? you need an evo and a spine anyways in any normal game, might as well put them there.
Standard.
Honeybadger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States821 Posts
July 22 2011 17:36 GMT
#84
Or you could just have a zergling near his front to see the hellions roll out, then move your queens easily to your front and have plenty of time, for quite a bit less resources. If you want to upgrade for a timing push, this also leaves your upgrades (a potential game-winner) very vulnerable until late in the midgame.
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
GuardianEU
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands488 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 17:40:11
July 22 2011 17:39 GMT
#85
On July 23 2011 02:36 Honeybadger wrote:
Or you could just have a zergling near his front to see the hellions roll out, then move your queens easily to your front and have plenty of time, for quite a bit less resources. If you want to upgrade for a timing push, this also leaves your upgrades (a potential game-winner) very vulnerable until late in the midgame.


a spine crawler has mroe staying power than 2 queens vs a lot of hellions (not that uncommon), and you can switch the evo and spines so the evo is mroe at the back. and to be honest, when you're fighting at your ramp and he has the unit advantage to start targetting buildings instead of your army, you've probably lost already.
Standard.
Micket
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2163 Posts
July 22 2011 18:08 GMT
#86
How do you get out of your ramp? Zerglings get fried as they have to come down a line. Surely 2 queens and the spinecrawler in a more useful space is better than this.
NekoFlandre
Profile Joined March 2011
United States497 Posts
July 22 2011 18:15 GMT
#87
well now that we take hellion out of the picture for terran lol.....
More two rax, 1 rax fe --> 4rax, incoming. XD
Kitty Flandre....even more scary..
GuardianEU
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands488 Posts
July 22 2011 18:18 GMT
#88
On July 23 2011 03:08 Micket wrote:
How do you get out of your ramp? Zerglings get fried as they have to come down a line. Surely 2 queens and the spinecrawler in a more useful space is better than this.


the hellions can;t stay near the wallin becasue of the spine crawler, so when you down with your lings, they can;t possibly be that close to 1shot them all.

if they do stay at the wallin however... wait for ur spines to kill their hellions xD
Standard.
theBIGdog
Profile Joined February 2011
United States41 Posts
July 22 2011 18:30 GMT
#89
when you see hellions, just run your main's queen to your ramp, run your drones away and defend with your natural expo queen. all you need is 1 queen to keep hellions out.
ULTRASTOMP
Claudia_Kitty
Profile Joined June 2011
Mexico5 Posts
July 22 2011 18:37 GMT
#90
LOL this is just a copy of the terran wall in down the ramp you remember suply depot and barracks ... drone cant see whats going on? .... no inovation just a copy, but people need to do this with other races copy the good stuff of the others :D
Our troops are under attack!!
Honeybadger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States821 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 19:05:53
July 22 2011 19:04 GMT
#91
On July 23 2011 02:39 GuardianEU wrote:
a spine crawler has mroe staying power than 2 queens vs a lot of hellions (not that uncommon), and you can switch the evo and spines so the evo is mroe at the back. and to be honest, when you're fighting at your ramp and he has the unit advantage to start targetting buildings instead of your army, you've probably lost already.


If you're not a high level player, this makes sense. But if he does go hellions, spines can be worked around or just suicided past for massive damage. The most important thing is to deny scouting. If he sees your roach warren for your early attack, you might as well just cancel it.

Also, building that spine when you don't have to means that you just lost the edge.

Here's how to know:

Ask a friend to do a 1, 2, and 5 hellion rush (if he masses more, he's just begging to be crushed by roaches or mutas) and figure out the general timings of these, plus or minus 30 game seconds due to people not being pros. And unless you're close positions on metal or shattered (if you are, build those spines anyways, lol) you will have enough time, just, to get a spine built and your queens in place.

If you don't HAVE to build something, don't. That's more drones or more zerglings or roaches or hydras in the long run

If I saw an evo right where that is, I'd just happily sit out of range and kill your evo with my hellions.
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
vol_
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1608 Posts
July 22 2011 20:27 GMT
#92
Its great if you are too lazy to move your Queens.
Jaedong gives me a deep resonance.
Banchan
Profile Joined May 2011
United States179 Posts
July 22 2011 20:56 GMT
#93
On July 23 2011 01:08 nick00bot wrote:
@banchan. from my perspective that was def botom right, adn the 2 oclock was top right.


[image loading]

IDK bro, the proof looks to be against you
Calm
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada380 Posts
July 22 2011 21:05 GMT
#94
Wow. I think you have just made the largest contribution to my laddering out of anyone (except maybe Day9)

Thanks for this!!!
boJangles408
Profile Joined October 2010
2 Posts
July 22 2011 21:07 GMT
#95
I've been doing another kind of wallin with evo(s), spine, and queen in front of my natural so they can't get through at all and just camp at the natural. I think it's better to do that than running your drones back to main.
nick00bot
Profile Joined November 2010
326 Posts
July 22 2011 21:14 GMT
#96

IDK bro, the proof looks to be against you


ok so if you tilt the map to the left its top right, if you tilt it to the right its bottom right, either way its sort of ambiguous in its natural setting
SoO~Speed~Serral~$o$~Dark~Myungsik~TY~Byun~Classic
Giantt
Profile Joined December 2010
Bulgaria82 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 21:28:49
July 22 2011 21:26 GMT
#97
I think that pulling drones from the natural to the main is too much damage by itself. Also by pulling u cause the drones to bunch up and usually take more losses compared to leaving them mine or hit stop + (select idle worker + move)*spam.
On most maps - even on ones with open naturals like xel naga caverns and metalopolis a zerg can defend 4-8 hellions with 2(3) queens 1 evo touching the ramp and 2 crawlers. If you feel the hellions are suicidal just add 4-10 lings to clean up faster when he goes for "the kill".

PS: not sure if that works at all on tournament maps with altered ramps - these that prevent barracks + depo walls.
nick00bot
Profile Joined November 2010
326 Posts
July 22 2011 21:29 GMT
#98
On July 23 2011 06:26 Giantt wrote:
I think that pulling drones from the natural to the main is too much damage by itself. Also by pulling u cause the drones to bunch up and usually take more losses compared to leaving them mine or hit stop + (select idle worker + move)*spam.
On most maps - even on ones with open naturals like xel naga caverns and metalopolis a zerg can defend 4-8 hellions with 2(3) queens 1 evo touching the ramp and 2 crawlers. If you feel the hellions are suicidal just add 4-10 lings to clean up faster when he goes for "the kill".



the thing is, your drones should already be in your base by the time the hellions arrive. the defense you suggest is good and will probably result in more dead hellions, but even suicidal hellions get drone kills. also if its blue flames you don't wanna risk having your drones out at all, 4 hellions can tear through a mineral line in like 2 volleys
SoO~Speed~Serral~$o$~Dark~Myungsik~TY~Byun~Classic
Juddas
Profile Joined January 2011
768 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 21:59:48
July 22 2011 21:43 GMT
#99
Wow cool idea. What I really like about this is that it can be a temporary wall off as spine crawlers are movable.

Later I am going to look for some variations building-wise for scrap and whatnot, if for funsies none the less.

This may be the wrong thread, but it pertains to my experimenting later: Do most people throw down a Roach Warren if they scout hellions if they don't have one already?
Banchan
Profile Joined May 2011
United States179 Posts
July 22 2011 21:54 GMT
#100
On July 23 2011 06:26 Giantt wrote:
PS: not sure if that works at all on tournament maps with altered ramps - these that prevent barracks + depo walls.


This is not super early game so it shouldn't be hard to kill the depot with a few lings or a queen in time to block hellions
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