EPTI was shocked when this happened to me on ladder and I think the mass muta style follow up has a ton of merit to it - yeah there's a lot of ways for terran to punish it but it is a really kickass trick.
ZvT The Hellion Filter: Ultimate Anti-hellion Wall - Page 4
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Non0
United States100 Posts
I was shocked when this happened to me on ladder and I think the mass muta style follow up has a ton of merit to it - yeah there's a lot of ways for terran to punish it but it is a really kickass trick. | ||
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Karellen
United States50 Posts
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:41 Karellen wrote: Just a question that sort of pertains to this thread: what prevents the Terran from keeping his hellions at your natural and preventing mining? is it just the queen at the natural? Queen, massed zerglings, mutas, more spines. Really, there's no difference between this and a double queen block in terms of scaring the hellions away. So basically what is going to scare the hellions away is whatever it is that normally scares them away. | ||
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nick00bot
326 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:41 Karellen wrote: Just a question that sort of pertains to this thread: what prevents the Terran from keeping his hellions at your natural and preventing mining? is it just the queen at the natural? yeah thats pretty much it, but pretty much there's two scenerios where that would happen 1. 2-4 hellions. sure he can park them by your natural, but your queen(s) will take care of them fairly quickly so you can just keep on droning. 2. 6-10 hellions: youll have to make units, but youll have time to do so without losing all your drones lol | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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eNIKa
Poland29 Posts
Nice Mate! | ||
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TUski
United States1258 Posts
On July 22 2011 14:43 Dhalphir wrote: Can roaches get through? Ultras? Queens? Crawlers can root+unroot. | ||
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nick00bot
326 Posts
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XDJuicebox
United States593 Posts
But great find nonetheless | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On July 22 2011 12:49 Arisen wrote: By doing this you're doing exactly what the Terran wants. No good Terran is trying to end the game with hellions by roasting a millions drones. If he sees an oportunity to do so, then yeah, he's going to take it, but he wants you to waste money on static defenses (and extra evo's you won't use for a long time) and stay on your side of the map. You'r accomplishing everything he wants for him. You're much better advised to use your resources on 5 roaches, as they allow you to take back map control and pressure the terran back. If you get caught completely with your pants down, I suppose this is useful, though, although I don't see how you get caught with your pants down, as you should be taking Reaper or Hellion into account off 1 gas, and blue flame, Banshees, or hellion drop off 2 gas. Unless you couldn't scout his gas timing, but you should catch the reactor with scout lings. Look, I'm making a spinecrawler and an evo chamber already, why not make it a wall? Where exactly is the waste? Building an evo chamber that I will use in the next few minutes or immediately if Terran opens banshees? Building a spine that you'll get more value out of than 4 lings (and a drone)? This is actually something I wanted to see. My evo chamber walls are very unrefined and sloppy. Thank you OP | ||
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CookieMaker
Canada880 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:49 babyToSS wrote: The big problem with zerg wall ins is that if terran sieges near your natural, it becomes very difficult for the zerg army to break that tank line unless you have broodlords with lots of corrupters. I can't tell if this is the biggest troll tonight or if it's a drunken bronzie on FOX News. Thanks OP, very detailed and informative. I love how reactionary it can be, and it really is a strong position for the crawler (as yet, i still have no idea how to properly position crawlers). | ||
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zVooky
United States151 Posts
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scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
I can see how it will help with the initial helion harass, but I don't think this allows one to drone up freely regardless if the ramp is blocked. Be aware of the silly pushes that can cost you if you think you're free to drone up hardcore. Might as well open up the roach warren earlier imo, does the same job, in addition to giving mobility for the places the spine crawler cannot reach. It actually takes a while for creep to spread to the ramp on maps like shattered temple anyway. Feels to me like a last minute attempt to hold off the initial helions when the roach warren is late, much like it was told in the OP. Sure it's good, but be prepared and you won't have to do this? What happened to the 4 roach build with 3 at the nat and 1 in main? | ||
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:02 scph wrote: So what do you do if BF Helions get into the 5-6 count followed up with a marauder push? I can see how it will help with the initial helion harass, but I don't think this allows one to drone up freely regardless if the ramp is blocked. Be aware of the silly pushes that can cost you if you think you're free to drone up hardcore. Might as well open up the roach warren earlier imo, does the same job, in addition to giving mobility for the places the spine crawler cannot reach. It actually takes a while for creep to spread to the ramp on maps like shattered temple anyway. Feels to me like a last minute attempt to hold off the initial helions when the roach warren is late, much like it was told in the OP. Sure it's good, but be prepared and you won't have to do this? What happened to the 4 roach build with 3 at the nat and 1 in main? No-one is claiming it's the second coming of christ and the solution to all our problems. Obviously it would be better to be properly prepared for the helions, but if you aren't prepared and helions are incoming it's a great way to protect your drones and not auto-lose the game while you muster a response to reclaim your natural mineral line. | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1260 Posts
So most (if not every) zerg units fits through - just to clarify, in mirror, is this only true for your units or for enemy units as well (I'd assume it is)? Also, has anyone tested further units (OP doesn't say so)? How do other terran units than hellions fit, e.g. are marines blocked by this? And what about protoss, maybe DTs? Is it possible to block DTs from entering your main (for whatever reason, just to buy time)? | ||
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StoRm_res
Switzerland891 Posts
On July 22 2011 22:44 Antithesis wrote: Nice find. So most (if not every) zerg units fits through - just to clarify, in mirror, is this only true for your units or for enemy units as well (I'd assume it is)? Also, has anyone tested further units (OP doesn't say so)? How do other terran units than hellions fit, e.g. are marines blocked by this? And what about protoss, maybe DTs? Is it possible to block DTs from entering your main (for whatever reason, just to buy time)? All units get through if you uproot. Without uprooting small units like zerglings marines zealots and dts will come through, while hellions/roaches/stalkers will not be able to pass good find, I've been doing it with a queen and evo/crawler, but this looks sweet =) definitly gonna try this =) | ||
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sLiniss
United States849 Posts
Main thing is to get that creep spread to the ramp ASAP. | ||
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Banchan
United States179 Posts
On July 22 2011 12:29 KimJongChill wrote: lol haha, what is with the 'that is top right bro' repeated over and over? Otherwise, this looks really cool. Haha what happened was he told me he spawned in bottom right metalopolis (the 5:00 position) while he was actually in the top right (1:00 position) so I said "that's top right bro" once. For some reason it showed up on his chat 4 times O.o | ||
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nick00bot
326 Posts
and Sliness is right, unfortunately it wont block dts or any "tier 1 sized" units. Main thing is to get that creep spread to the ramp ASAP. I probably should have mentioned this in the OP, but on some maps where the creep from your natural doesn't naturally spread across the ramp you will have to lay a n early creep tumor if you want o have your wall up in time for a reactor hellion opening I can see how it will help with the initial helion harass, but I don't think this allows one to drone up freely regardless if the ramp is blocked. Be aware of the silly pushes that can cost you if you think you're free to drone up hardcore. Might as well open up the roach warren earlier imo, does the same job, in addition to giving mobility for the places the spine crawler cannot reach. yeah you or definitely correct in that this is only for initial hellion harassment, but if instead of those 4 roaches you suggest you have 3 more drones and a faster lair (assuming you don't build evo and spines when going roach and don't build RW when doing this wall), which in turn can turn into being able to optimally produce units in time for that marauder hellion push. The gas saved from roaches can be invested in either +1 or a fast lair, which in turn can allow you a great muta counterattack if you manage to survive all the hellion push shenanigans | ||
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