Can someone please explain the EG Masters Cup Debacle or link to a thread? I'm interested, the search just comes up with EG Masters Cup tournament threads etc. But doesn't seem controversial.

epikAnglory

United States1120 Posts

May 31 2011 02:12 GMT

#462

Does not have to be word for word, can just be a summary. Definitely not as good as usual, but I think a lot of people here are getting the idea that the foreigners cannot know anything going on in Fomos.

-_-

United States7081 Posts

May 31 2011 02:18 GMT

#463

On May 31 2011 07:49 Shauni wrote:
I'm still wondering why FOMOS consider TL a profit organization. Has something happened lately with SC2 or are they lying?

There's nothing underhand about it. For most of the BW days, Teamliquid didn't have ads. And because it was much smaller, according to what Admins said, they made basically nothing and invested every penny back into the site. Fomos seemed to have expected that was still the case.

I admit it's a little weird. We used to mock Gosugamer's owners incessantly when we found it they made a living from running the site. But hey, Tl.net is massive now. Gotta get used to it. Nothing wrong with it.

Sd13

Vietnam186 Posts

May 31 2011 02:24 GMT

#464

Just my opinion, can we let SDM representing TL translators to join the 10article/month contract, kinda a middleman, three way contract.

So,
- SDM: have the right to use fomos content and let TL use this right so that TL translator can translate fomos materials, can post TL english translation on fomos global, will translate the 10 article/month on his own if number of article translation is not enough like what he has been doing
- TL translator: can translate fomos article voluntarily without bound to a contract
- Fomos: get translations in exchange for letting TL use the original article.

Of course acknowledging fomos source and TL translator is a must from both sides when posting translation, maybe when the translation got posted on fomos global, TL will remove the translation and replace with the link to fomos global so they can regenerate views after all..

Tho if they seriously join partnership with the China and paid sth for their english translation already, i doubt they will wanna hang around with TL anymore.

Kennigit

Canada19447 Posts

May 31 2011 02:26 GMT

#465

I'm just locking this till wax posts. Too much misinformation.

Waxangel

United States33627 Posts

June 01 2011 22:02 GMT

#466

eh, updated the OP

Impervious

Canada4218 Posts

June 01 2011 22:30 GMT

#467

Is there any chance that this is actually because they do not clearly understand how TL works? Is it some kind of miscommunication?

I mean, yes TL is a "for profit" site, but the vast majority of stuff done here is actually by volunteers. As such, without hiring a translator, there was no way that TL can agree to the terms Fomos wanted.....

OTOH, could TL actually "hire" a translator to do this type of stuff to fill the quota for Fomos, and then have anything above and beyond as voluntary?

Waxangel

United States33627 Posts

June 01 2011 22:38 GMT

#468

Personally, I think it's unfortunate that we couldn't agree to terms. I guess that's just how it is for strictly business news outfits. We were also unable to reach an agreement with ThisIsGame.com, another Korean news site (SC II focused), but on the other hand, the community site PlayXP.com was more than happy to agree to our terms.

xBillehx

United States1289 Posts

June 01 2011 22:46 GMT

#469

Thanks for the update Wax, I expected it was something along those lines given the cooperation with PlayXP. It's unfortunate fomos wanted more and kind of annoying that they made it out to be teamliquid's fault.

Stratos

Czech Republic6104 Posts

June 01 2011 22:48 GMT

#470

Is there any BW content to translate from PlayXP? My Korean is really poor but it seems to me like there's SC2 only :c Also, is there any agreement made with DES or are we basically waiting until they "find out" or "begin to care" and see what happens?

XsebT

Denmark2980 Posts

June 01 2011 22:49 GMT

#471

Thanks for the update, wax. Your terms seems perfectly reasonable.
I thoroughly believe that fomos will regret not accepting these very simple and logical terms, since a korean news/community site will just never have the same appeal as TL for foreigners. In other words, I don't think their "global section" investment will pay off for them. We don't just want translated news and pics; we want to discuss it. This is our forum.

Chef

10810 Posts

June 01 2011 22:52 GMT

#472

I don't think their request to share english to english and korean to korean articles was that bad an idea, in terms of what's best for the community. You both publish interesting content, you both have loyal fanbases... What's the problem? Especially if you credit where the original article is from.

If they wanna repost our articles it's honestly no huge loss lol.

TanGeng

Sanya12364 Posts

June 01 2011 22:58 GMT

#473

Wow, I hadn't expected those terms demanded by Fomos. A TL quota and free reproduction of all TL content is highly ridiculous, isn't it? It's just not limited to copying English translations of their own articles but includes all of TL's original materials to help their English site.

The quota isn't a good idea. As a fan translator from time to time, the standards for quality goes up for paid articles and the enjoyment goes down when it has to be done. On top of probably demanding about $50 per article, it'd become a job to translate. Fan translations are done in the spirit of community and open sharing to a limited degree.

@Chef: Fomos' demands weren't limited to the translations and it become competitor for traffic.

Tadzio

3340 Posts

June 01 2011 23:03 GMT

#474

On June 02 2011 07:52 Chef wrote:
I don't think their request to share english to english and korean to korean articles was that bad an idea, in terms of what's best for the community. You both publish interesting content, you both have loyal fanbases... What's the problem?

To be clear, they did not offer reciprocation. Don't get confused.

Xavv

Canada168 Posts

June 01 2011 23:11 GMT

#475

I'm really disgusted by the fact that they're response to offering a fair translation exchange between the websites is for them to come back and say they want to copy and unedited, unaltered version of TL.net for korean english speaking fans.

Don't get me wrong, Furthering the community across boarders should certainly be one of the top priorities for eSports, But too me that request just comes off as so petty.

It's like "Well we don't want you using any of our stuff, But we're okay with you giving us everything you have to use on our end if you're okay with that.."

Oreo7

United States1647 Posts

June 01 2011 23:19 GMT

#476

WP wax, and SDM's a jerk.

Chef

10810 Posts

June 01 2011 23:21 GMT

#477

On June 02 2011 08:03 Tadzio wrote:

Show nested quote +

To be clear, they did not offer reciprocation. Don't get confused.

Oh, I know, but I feel like you could bargain for it if that's what they were asking. Negotiating always starts with terms to probe how much the other party wants to make the deal (if I learned anything from D2 trading LOL). Admittedly it's a pretty low ball offer and a bit disrespectful, but I feel like you could come a reasonable terms.

I don't really buy the 'competitors for traffic' angle. The content will look better on the site it was originally hosted on, will be updated faster on the site it was originally hosted on... Essentially English fans will be lead to TL, and Korean fans will stay at Fomos. They don't really gain all that much from putting our content on their site except maybe a couple people from Asian countries who can't get TL to load quickly. Certainly they won't lessen TL's viewership.

I'm sort of half aware that I'm speaking way over my head here and that I don't know enough details to make these assertions, but I really value Fomos' interviews and I think TL should be willing to earn their rights. We don't have that much to offer Fomos except helping their English site, since we are so far away from the center of eSports. In exchange we get a live feed in Korea? It sounds like a decent deal.

Milkis

5003 Posts

June 01 2011 23:36 GMT

#478

I dont know why people think "losing" Fomos is such a big deal. All you lose is a few featured interviews they do every once in a while. As for the main interviews, we can still use DES and their features.

Given that there's a ton of untranslated korean stuff everywhere i dont see why people think Fomos is such a big deal when there's always a lack of translators to cover everything anyway.

Also Chef: it is easy to say "oh you could just keep negotiating" if you were completely unaware of their attitude towards TeamLiquid. Just read the Fomos official statement and you should get a glimpse of what Fomos thinks of TL.

JMave

Singapore1806 Posts

June 01 2011 23:40 GMT

#479

Okay, that was real crazy demands on their part man.

TanGeng

Sanya12364 Posts

June 02 2011 00:06 GMT

#480

Content is more valuable the more places it appears. For freelance writers, the prospect of free distribution to new audiences isn't such a terrible offer. It expands the writer's audience and reach. However, Fomos might change around the presentation to undesirable ends.

But for TeamLiquid, the website, the asymmetrical distribution of reproduction rights is not appealing at all. It packages up the work of TL's original writing crew along with the translators and gifts the labor to Fomos. There is no good reason to accept a partnership like that.

Granted Fomos' English site will never be a good competitor in the near future. But if they want this kind of agreement, might as contribute to their continued irrelevance. And if it just a negotiating ploy, then it's not working.