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On December 08 2012 05:27 Belial88 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 04:52 Myrmidon wrote:
A lot of people use the stock fans though, particularly until they develop problems. The product you buy is the heatsink plus all included accessories including fans, so that's what is usually tested.
Proper testing tells how loud the stock configuration is... hopefully with a delta T vs. temperature graph for each cooler or at least a few data points. Hopefully with noise recordings too.
Obviously more data isn't bad, so additional testing with equivalent fans is also useful, but maybe less useful. Any results to show for the sleeve-bearing cheap Yates vs. stock fans? How much improvement do you really get? What about fan splitters, maybe a motherboard that only does PWM control? etc.
In the real world, most people aren't interested in processors that consume up to 150W when overclocked. That's probably close to 3x stock i5-3570k on full CPU load and no IGP load, over 2x compared to stock i7-3770k. You're not going to triple heat output by overclocking on air. If we're talking about builds in this thread, those 150W or overclocked i7-990x / whatever loads are not that relevant. That said, those that are interested in 150W+ are obviously the target market for the high-end heatsinks.
Test results from reviewers are obviously imprecise measures of performance because they only test one sample: heatsink performance is confounded with manufacturing variance, ambient temperature difference, fan mounting (particularly with regards to character of noise), base mounting / TIM factors particularly if for different sockets, distribution of thermal load (assuming you're interested in performance for your CPU, which may generate heat in different locations and amounts as the tested heat source), etc. You can't separate these factors and interactions with one sample. edit: and as noted by semantics below, the mounting / TIM is the biggest deal there, though of course that interacts with the manufacturing variance in base shape.
So I wouldn't trust anybody's numbers. Or more precisely, you treat the data as an estimate with high uncertainty. Any comparison of two coolers on any site including frostytech is in question, so if you've done all the research, then sure. I think it depends. If you buy an NH-D14 class cooler, you might stay with stock simply because you don't need more cooling performance. But 'a lot of people' (i can use weasel words too) replace the fans as well, and especially with tower designs you have a lot of people running push/pull, getting extra fans or replacing the fans altogether. It's better to just buy 2 yate loons for push/pull, and then use the stock fan as a case fan. In the real world, people don't need aftermarket heatsinks because they aren't overclocking or not overclocking much, and even then, most people will do just fine with a stock hyper 212+ and that's the end of it. For those looking for more performance or overclock, or running a hot chip, your definitely going to be interested in apples to apples configuration, sound if that's your thing, and how a heatsink performs with better fans or with identical fans. http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jspSeems to me that just even 4ghz on an i5-2500k is going close to 150W, and that's quite a conservative overclock. Get an IB-i5 or stronger, a phenom ii, an FX, or i5 on a more standard overclock, and your definitely pushing past 160. There are definitely tons of factors involved with heatsink performance, but you can get a relative idea of a heatsink's performance compared to other popular heatsinks based on looking at tons of reviews by trustworthy sites (no tomshardware, no frostytech, basically, just avoid those 2 shitty sites and your good) and user anecdotes by reliable users (OCN, Anandtech forums, etc). A Logisys Assassin may or may not be the best cooler in the world, but it's going to definitely be in the top 5, and within 1*C of whatever the best cooler in the world is. Every benchmark out there shows the K2/assassin within 1*C of the SA, Nh-d14, Phanteks, they are all the top 4 coolers. They also show that the Hyper 212+/Evo is generally behind a good 10*C on a full load on an intel chip, ie signifincantly behind in performance. Not, as the frosytech review shows, withn 1*C of the best air coolers in the world, and better than the Silver Arrow. I don't trust any one single site (except hardocp, they tend to be on the money, but not too many reviews by them), but getting the big picture by looking at many sites, you should see a trend. Every single review out there shows the SA/k2/nhd-14/phanteks as within top 4, and hyper 212+/evo as 10*C worse in performance, all but frostytech. You can probably rule out that frostytech is crap, especially when everyone says so, and everything on their list is so far from every other reviewed result out there. Tim is responsible for maybe 1-3*C at most, and mounting is a matter of doing it correctly. There are plenty of TIM benches out there, showing the differences between different TIM spread levels and methods, showing at worst you have like 3*C for massively too much/too little paste. As long as you use consistent TIM for every test and consistent spread, and you test multiple times, you have good results. You need to remount the cooler multiple times for accurate tests, hence why you aren't going for absolute results, you look for relative results on many different benches.
Less repeating yourself, please. You've said, I dunno, eight times or whatever that 'every other' reputable reviewer gets different results from frostytech. Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't count for much. Links (of quality reviews directly contradiction frostytech or of articles/posts criticizing a bias towards a sponsor using something other than generic hearsay) & methodology discussion would be something new, for instance.
Repeating yourself without referencing hard data will not convince people you are a tech authority. No, generic summaries of articles you read six months ago do not count as hard data.
P.S. Jinglehell, Myrmidon, Womwomwom and all the other major posters here (I do not count as one of them) have all done so and proven themselves in the past. This is one of the reasons why those of us that are relatively uninformed trust that their word/understanding/explanations is better than yours.
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This was why I didn't want to respond to you. You're so busy trying to be right by arguing that you seem to have lost sight of the debate. You're making absurd leaps of logic to go any distance to be right, and I'm pretty sure you've lost sight of what's actually being discussed.
If you want to say X is "the best" anything, which is an unqualified statement, you shouldn't need 36 paragraphs of qualifications to make that statement suddenly become true. You should be able to consistently show it.
Also, don't fucking accuse me of trolling when you've only finally started to actually show links.
See, now that you're giving me reviews of the Assassin that AREN'T using a variable ambient (seriously, if you're even going to think about telling me that having the A/C kick on during the test doesn't skew results, just don't), with direct comparisons from the same setup (which I didn't have at first, google likes to turn their search fuckery options back on all the time), things look much better for it.
Of course, at no given point in time did I say the assassin was a bad cooler, and the only person who discussed the Evo and SA were you. I went with the stuff I had. Oh, for the record, I'm curious how you know to trust Tom's when it comes to Frosty being bad, but you don't trust Tom's normally? See, if I consider a source iffy, I usually don't trust what they say about other sources.
See, I have yet to see any reason for all your rather ludicrous personal attacks, which are purely based on me taking the stuff I found online, with the most reasonable methodologies, and trusting it. Sometimes that works out, others it doesn't. But then, I'd be willing to bet you haven't tested all these coolers yourself, so oh shit, that's what you're doing too, right?
In other words, get your pants off your head, and your attitude in check, and you might have a better time around here. The way you did it NOW is the way you should do it in general when you want to persuade people.
For the record, the TPC 812 those people on Tom's were talking about being misreviewed on Frosty? That's the one I already mentioned had a review that went wonky, along with the best theory as to why.
Also, as to the heat plate, the worst part about that methodology isn't "real world temps", it's the fact that the plate may not be a perfect analog to real world CPU heat distribution, since the heat spreader doesn't spread heat 100% efficiently. And the vertical mount, but again, that's a common thing that probably doesn't affect reviews much.
You insist that all tests should use the same fans, but that's incorrect. If you're reviewing the cooler as packaged, which is what most people purchase, you should use the stock fans. Now, would I consider it incredibly helpful if reviewers did both? Yes. Or maybe we should do with 2-3 different high end fans with different speeds, static pressure, and acoustics.
Or maybe we should just use the information we get to the best of our ability.
Overall, I'd leave it at the Assassin is a good cooler, excellent for the price. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's the best. Certainly not without qualifications. Which, ironically, brings us full circle, because you still haven't shown me something that fits your unqualified best statement that I originally contested. Regardless of all the other debate.
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On December 08 2012 04:22 Belial88 wrote:
It's not hard to google this. I think your just trolling, I know your pretty smart when it comes to this stuff. You can't seriously think that the Evo with 4HDT is anywhere comparable to a dual tower with 8 heatpipes on a flat base cooler. Every single review out there shows the K2/Assassin/SA/NH-D14/Phanteks all in the same league, and that all are within 1*C of eachother, ie margin of error. They also all show the Evo/212 is nowhere near the same level.
Oh, just as a simple test of truth here...
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=674&Itemid=62
Read how many heatpipes that has, please?
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I by no means have the technical know-how to debate anything about fans, but afaik, you haven't mentioned Wom's talk about the fan noise. I believe he said something along the lines of "SA is 4 decibels quieter for similar thermal performance, meaning that it spins at a lower rate to achieve the same performance as a Hyper 212 Evo." Does that not make sense? Because I'm reasonably certain that 4 decibels is a noticeable difference, along with the fact that this means that if it was spinning faster, it would certainly outperform the Evo, no?
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Well, they both seem to be at high speed. What he's neglecting to mention is that it performed, at 150w, a whopping 0.1C better in the test. But, the "high speed" is disingenuous, the SA fan caps at 1300 RPM, which is, in fact, slow and quiet. CM tends to ship a portable tornado.
I think anyone sane would agree that 0.1C is well within any normal margin of error, and the noise difference is going to severely affect what is a "better" cooler to a lot of people.
The SA did better than the 212 Evo on Frosty's 85w test, by the same margin.
Oh, and his main source for Frosty being "bad" is one he admitted at the same time he normally wouldn't trust, which shows confirmation bias. He doesn't trust Tom's, unless they agree with him. That instantly calls everything else he says "just google it" and "common knowledge" about into question.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2692&page=5
Ignore the highlights, that's just their most recently updated list, and see for yourself.
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I think he thinks everyone is saying Hyper 212+ evo/TPC-812 is better then silver arrow as a general purpose heatsink, but no one thinks that. All we do is point out what is being tested isn't really being misrepresented i mean all you have to do is actually read the full review of a cooler which includes the 5v low (or 7v when a fan wont start at 5v) and the 12v high
150w 125w 85w
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2568&page=5
Silver A. at 1300rpm 16.0°C 12.2°C 9.7°C 43.4dBA (high)
Silver A. at 500rpm 25.0°C 18.9°C 14.5°C 29.7dBA (low)
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2654&page=5
TPC-812 at 2400rpm 13.9°C 11.9°C 8.3°C 52.4dBA (high)
TPC-812 at 600rpm 26.7°C 22.3°C 14.7°C 33.7dBA (low)
Anyone reading the review can tell the TPC-812 max cooling performance comes from the horribly loud and fast fan.
I mean all you have to do is read the conclusions for the TPC-812 and the silver arrow. Frosty works fine reading the actual cpu reviews, if all you do is look at max cooling and not actually read the individual reviews and make a decision off that, it's your own dam fault if you draw the wrong conclusions about each cooler.
I mean you could possibly complain about Frost tech's choice of saying high and low instead of posting rpm at 5v and at 12v on the table to make it a bit more obvious although it would continue to crowd the table which is why they don't include the low of every cooler on the table. Really i only read for the 5v cooling performance because that is what i would run it at.
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On December 08 2012 03:43 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 03:28 diclKrunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey guys,
I'm building my first computer on a (supposedly) college sized budget. My problem is, I set out to build a relatively cheap computer, and ended up with a 1k+ build, so I'm looking to trim some fat off the build.
Keeping in mind, this is my first build, there may be fundamental flaws, and some parts may not even be compatible. Please lay off the flame until I respond ignorantly and/or pis you off.
What I'm looking at (no parts have been ordered yet):
CPU: i5 3570k
MoBo: Asus P8Z77-V LK ATX LGA1155
Memory: G-Skill Ripjaw X-Series (4x4GB)
Storage: Corsair Force Series 3 2.5" 60GB SSD
Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6 GB/s
Video Card: GIGABYTE GV-N66TOC-2GD GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB 192-bit
PSU: Rosewill Green 630W
Case: NZXT Full Tower, Black/Orange ATX
Thanks in advance. Link to products / pricing, the definition of cheap, and the purpose of the computer would be useful unless you want us to play a stupid guessing game. You're missing an aftermarket heatsink since I'm guessing you are overclocking. What the fuck is G-Skill RIpjawsX 4x4gb? 1333MHz cas8? 1333MHz cas9? 1600MHz cas8? 1600MHz cas9? 1866MHz cas9? 2133 cas9? 1.5v? 1.65v? 1.35v? 1.25v? P8Z77-V LK isn't a good choice unless you're paying close to $100. Corsair Force 3 is also not good unless you are getting it for like $60. Why pick a full tower case (I assume its a Phantom 001 and not a 810 or 820...) if you want to be cheap? Why pick a GTX 660 Ti which is $300 if you want to be cheap...?
I'm sorry for being vague - Once again, new here, and I posted in a rush which was my first mistake. I'm intending to make a gaming machine. At the moment I spend my time on Dota 2, but I'm looking to future proof my machine for the inevitable day when my interests turn to something more graphically intensive.
Here's the build I'm looking at, sorry if linking to pcpartpicker is frowned upon.
When I said "cheap" I may have misspoke, I originally intended to do a budget build, but I've sort of settled into my current price. The thing is I couldn't tell you the ins and outs of most of the parts on this list, and I was hoping you guys could identify things that may be excessive, which you've done fairly well. The reason I chose most of the parts on the list is because they appeared to be relatively cheap options with relatively consistent performance, but once again my lack of knowledge is why I've turned to a forum like TL for help.
If you think I've picked improperly, I would love to hear some reliable alternatives, as I assume most of you guys are pretty well versed. Sorry if I left you guessing.
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On December 08 2012 06:31 JingleHell wrote:Well, they both seem to be at high speed. What he's neglecting to mention is that it performed, at 150w, a whopping 0.1C better in the test. But, the "high speed" is disingenuous, the SA fan caps at 1300 RPM, which is, in fact, slow and quiet. CM tends to ship a portable tornado. I think anyone sane would agree that 0.1C is well within any normal margin of error, and the noise difference is going to severely affect what is a "better" cooler to a lot of people. The SA did better than the 212 Evo on Frosty's 85w test, by the same margin. Oh, and his main source for Frosty being "bad" is one he admitted at the same time he normally wouldn't trust, which shows confirmation bias. He doesn't trust Tom's, unless they agree with him. That instantly calls everything else he says "just google it" and "common knowledge" about into question. http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2692&page=5Ignore the highlights, that's just their most recently updated list, and see for yourself.
Ah. Well, I think my lack of fan knowledge is more obvious now, not even knowing what speed it could max at 
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On December 08 2012 07:33 diclKrunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 03:43 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 03:28 diclKrunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey guys,
I'm building my first computer on a (supposedly) college sized budget. My problem is, I set out to build a relatively cheap computer, and ended up with a 1k+ build, so I'm looking to trim some fat off the build.
Keeping in mind, this is my first build, there may be fundamental flaws, and some parts may not even be compatible. Please lay off the flame until I respond ignorantly and/or pis you off.
What I'm looking at (no parts have been ordered yet):
CPU: i5 3570k
MoBo: Asus P8Z77-V LK ATX LGA1155
Memory: G-Skill Ripjaw X-Series (4x4GB)
Storage: Corsair Force Series 3 2.5" 60GB SSD
Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6 GB/s
Video Card: GIGABYTE GV-N66TOC-2GD GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB 192-bit
PSU: Rosewill Green 630W
Case: NZXT Full Tower, Black/Orange ATX
Thanks in advance. Link to products / pricing, the definition of cheap, and the purpose of the computer would be useful unless you want us to play a stupid guessing game. You're missing an aftermarket heatsink since I'm guessing you are overclocking. What the fuck is G-Skill RIpjawsX 4x4gb? 1333MHz cas8? 1333MHz cas9? 1600MHz cas8? 1600MHz cas9? 1866MHz cas9? 2133 cas9? 1.5v? 1.65v? 1.35v? 1.25v? P8Z77-V LK isn't a good choice unless you're paying close to $100. Corsair Force 3 is also not good unless you are getting it for like $60. Why pick a full tower case (I assume its a Phantom 001 and not a 810 or 820...) if you want to be cheap? Why pick a GTX 660 Ti which is $300 if you want to be cheap...? I'm sorry for being vague - Once again, new here, and I posted in a rush which was my first mistake. I'm intending to make a gaming machine. At the moment I spend my time on Dota 2, but I'm looking to future proof my machine for the inevitable day when my interests turn to something more graphically intensive. Here's the build I'm looking at, sorry if linking to pcpartpicker is frowned upon. When I said "cheap" I may have misspoke, I originally intended to do a budget build, but I've sort of settled into my current price. The thing is I couldn't tell you the ins and outs of most of the parts on this list, and I was hoping you guys could identify things that may be excessive, which you've done fairly well. The reason I chose most of the parts on the list is because they appeared to be relatively cheap options with relatively consistent performance, but once again my lack of knowledge is why I've turned to a forum like TL for help. If you think I've picked improperly, I would love to hear some reliable alternatives, as I assume most of you guys are pretty well versed. Sorry if I left you guessing.
You're missing memory on your list. You'll just want to go with the basic memory, something like this G.Skill 2x4gb 1333MHz cas9 kit for $32: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231643
Samsung 830 64gb would be a better choice than the Corsair Force 3 for the same price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147133 ~60GB is really small so you may want to consider getting a 120GB SSD for ~$20 more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147188
You're also missing an aftermarket heatsink for overclocking though Dota 2 isn't particularly an intensive game so if you want to save a ~$100, you can forgo the option of overclocking. If you insist on overclocking than you'll need an aftermarket heatsink, an inexpensive Hyper 212 EVO would do: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=64385&promoid=1306
The Asrock Z77 Extreme4 would be a better choice than the ASUS P8Z77-V LK at a lower price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157293 If you forgo overclocking than you can get an even less expensive board like a $80 Z77 / H77 / B75 board with a regular non-suffix core i5 3570.
Get a Rosewill Capstone 450 which is significantly better and still provide plenty of power for such a configuration: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066
Case is overkill but I think you already know that and it's okay if you want to stick with it for the 'looks' or whatever. A less expensive option would be the Corsair Carbide 200R for $54 with promo code: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139018
The GTX 660 Ti is very poor in value. The GTX 660, 7850, and 7870 all offer practically the same performance for $100 less. Look at reviews and judge yourself: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6276 & http://techreport.com/review/23527
Also missing a DVD burner but I assume you have that covered. If not, you can just pick any burner up for ~$16.
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On December 08 2012 07:33 diclKrunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 03:43 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 03:28 diclKrunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey guys,
I'm building my first computer on a (supposedly) college sized budget. My problem is, I set out to build a relatively cheap computer, and ended up with a 1k+ build, so I'm looking to trim some fat off the build.
Keeping in mind, this is my first build, there may be fundamental flaws, and some parts may not even be compatible. Please lay off the flame until I respond ignorantly and/or pis you off.
What I'm looking at (no parts have been ordered yet):
CPU: i5 3570k
MoBo: Asus P8Z77-V LK ATX LGA1155
Memory: G-Skill Ripjaw X-Series (4x4GB)
Storage: Corsair Force Series 3 2.5" 60GB SSD
Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6 GB/s
Video Card: GIGABYTE GV-N66TOC-2GD GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB 192-bit
PSU: Rosewill Green 630W
Case: NZXT Full Tower, Black/Orange ATX
Thanks in advance. Link to products / pricing, the definition of cheap, and the purpose of the computer would be useful unless you want us to play a stupid guessing game. You're missing an aftermarket heatsink since I'm guessing you are overclocking. What the fuck is G-Skill RIpjawsX 4x4gb? 1333MHz cas8? 1333MHz cas9? 1600MHz cas8? 1600MHz cas9? 1866MHz cas9? 2133 cas9? 1.5v? 1.65v? 1.35v? 1.25v? P8Z77-V LK isn't a good choice unless you're paying close to $100. Corsair Force 3 is also not good unless you are getting it for like $60. Why pick a full tower case (I assume its a Phantom 001 and not a 810 or 820...) if you want to be cheap? Why pick a GTX 660 Ti which is $300 if you want to be cheap...? I'm sorry for being vague - Once again, new here, and I posted in a rush which was my first mistake. I'm intending to make a gaming machine. At the moment I spend my time on Dota 2, but I'm looking to future proof my machine for the inevitable day when my interests turn to something more graphically intensive. Here's the build I'm looking at, sorry if linking to pcpartpicker is frowned upon. When I said "cheap" I may have misspoke, I originally intended to do a budget build, but I've sort of settled into my current price. The thing is I couldn't tell you the ins and outs of most of the parts on this list, and I was hoping you guys could identify things that may be excessive, which you've done fairly well. The reason I chose most of the parts on the list is because they appeared to be relatively cheap options with relatively consistent performance, but once again my lack of knowledge is why I've turned to a forum like TL for help. If you think I've picked improperly, I would love to hear some reliable alternatives, as I assume most of you guys are pretty well versed. Sorry if I left you guessing.
I dislike almost all of the picked components based on your requirements. You don't need an overclocked i5 to play ANY game on Ultra. If you truly are budget I suggest:
i3-3220 & DVD Burner $128.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1163383
ASRock B75M-DGS $54.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157335
HIS HD7850 & Crucial 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3-1600 $198.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1154320
Same HDD from your list
Silverstone PS08B $39.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163223
Antec VP-450 $38.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371045
Total: $529.92
Go with whatever monitor the other person suggests. I suck at them.
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Thanks for your help guys, keep it coming. I will absolutely heed your warning on the GPU, PSU, Motherboard and RAM fronts, however I was hoping to add liquid cooling to my rig and OC more as a learning experience than anything (and to say I did), which is something I've always been interested in doing, so I'd hate to pull that from the machine.
Also, the thought process behind the full tower was that if I was going to do this I've heard it's good to have the space. I do find it aesthetically pleasing, but there's definitely equally nice/much cheaper mid towers.
Here's the build after taking your comments into consideration, definitely still up for debate. Also I plan on getting the 8 GB of Corsair RAM packaged with the 7850.
Oh, and the SSD was for the boot partition, as well as just a few games. Don't intend to keep anything substantial on there.
Thanks so much for the feedback guys
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On December 08 2012 09:22 diclKrunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Thanks for your help guys, keep it coming. I will absolutely heed your warning on the GPU, PSU, Motherboard and RAM fronts, however I was hoping to add liquid cooling to my rig and OC more as a learning experience than anything (and to say I did), which is something I've always been interested in doing, so I'd hate to pull that from the machine. Also, the thought process behind the full tower was that if I was going to do this I've heard it's good to have the space. I do find it aesthetically pleasing, but there's definitely equally nice/much cheaper mid towers. Here's the build after taking your comments into consideration, definitely still up for debate. Also I plan on getting the 8 GB of Corsair RAM packaged with the 7850. Oh, and the SSD was for the boot partition, as well as just a few games. Don't intend to keep anything substantial on there. Thanks so much for the feedback guys
Creating your own custom liquid cooling loop is quite expensive and, performance-wise, is not at all worth it unless you're really reaching for high overclocks on top-end equipment.
Buying a commercial (corsair Hwhatever) closed liquid cooling loop is functionally the same as buying a normal air tower cooler like the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 or Noctua NH-D14. There's no additional skill, effort, or benefit to doing so. And it often restricts what cases will work for you. I guess technically liquid is involved, but meh.
As for your updated list, it actually looks pretty good. Maybe a little CPU heavy at the expense of the GPU, but whatever. I would recommend paying more for a 128gb SSD. The extra space will probably be worth it to you, as it will dramatically increase the number of programs you can fit on the SSD to gain its benefits.
The case is also a bit expensive. But I gotta admit I think the Phantoms look pretty bad-ass. Even the pink one.
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On December 08 2012 10:07 MisterFred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 09:22 diclKrunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Thanks for your help guys, keep it coming. I will absolutely heed your warning on the GPU, PSU, Motherboard and RAM fronts, however I was hoping to add liquid cooling to my rig and OC more as a learning experience than anything (and to say I did), which is something I've always been interested in doing, so I'd hate to pull that from the machine. Also, the thought process behind the full tower was that if I was going to do this I've heard it's good to have the space. I do find it aesthetically pleasing, but there's definitely equally nice/much cheaper mid towers. Here's the build after taking your comments into consideration, definitely still up for debate. Also I plan on getting the 8 GB of Corsair RAM packaged with the 7850. Oh, and the SSD was for the boot partition, as well as just a few games. Don't intend to keep anything substantial on there. Thanks so much for the feedback guys Creating your own custom liquid cooling loop is quite expensive and, performance-wise, is not at all worth it unless you're really reaching for high overclocks on top-end equipment. Buying a commercial (corsair Hwhatever) closed liquid cooling loop is functionally the same as buying a normal air tower cooler like the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 or Noctua NH-D14. There's no additional skill, effort, or benefit to doing so. And it often restricts what cases will work for you. I guess technically liquid is involved, but meh. As for your updated list, it actually looks pretty good. Maybe a little CPU heavy at the expense of the GPU, but whatever. I would recommend paying more for a 128gb SSD. The extra space will probably be worth it to you, as it will dramatically increase the number of programs you can fit on the SSD to gain its benefits. The case is also a bit expensive. But I gotta admit I think the Phantoms look pretty bad-ass. Even the pink one.
I'm not sure if you're trying to subtly suggest I get a Hyper 212 and skip liquid cooling, but if that's the case, then I can definitely follow. I upgraded the SSD to the 120 suggested earlier, and upon further review I do really love that case. Also, the processor is something I'd love to have, but I plan on waiting it out as long as possible, because with Christmas approaching I believe I can get it for less than 215.
Furthermore, you guys da best.
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Hi, TL. Last week I posted the following build outline:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 03 2012 17:24 Ferrose wrote:Hey guys, I think I have a preliminary build. + Show Spoiler [survey in the OP] +What is your budget?
$750-$900
What is your resolution?
1920x1080 (still have to get a monitor)
What are you using it for?
Gaming (my main games are Planetside 2 and League of Legends), anime, music.
What is your upgrade cycle?
2-3 years
When do you plan on building it?
ASAP, was planning on ordering/picking up parts as soon as today/tomorrow.
Do you plan on overclocking?
No.
Do you need an Operating System?
Yes, the laptop I currently use has Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit, and I think I'd like to stay with that.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No.
Where are you buying your parts from?
Microcenter near my house and Newegg, whichever has cheaper parts. The things I think I need the most feedback on is the GPU and PSU. I was completely clueless on GPUs and don't know what I should be looking for. Regarding the PSU, I have no idea how much power I'd need to run this machine so I don't know if 500W will cut it or not :x
I took some suggestions from skyR and came up with the final build of:
+ Show Spoiler +
I assembled all the parts last night, and when I booted it up, the fans and parts turn on for about five seconds, then shut off. Then start again, and shut off, over and over again.
I checked to make sure everything was plugged in and in the right place, and even had a much more tech-savvy friend verify my setup. Our conclusion is that the most likely cause is that either I shorted something, or the PSU isn't powerful enough to boot the system. I tried turning the PSU around so that the fan was facing the ceiling rather than the floor, but I got the same problem. I also encountered the same issue after trying three different outlets.
Just wondering if anyone at TL could offer any advice or help, would be much appreciated. If I can't get it to work, I will try to return the PSU and get the 650W version as Newegg has it on sale.
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On December 08 2012 14:31 Ferrose wrote:Hi, TL. Last week I posted the following build outline: + Show Spoiler +On December 03 2012 17:24 Ferrose wrote:Hey guys, I think I have a preliminary build. + Show Spoiler [survey in the OP] +What is your budget?
$750-$900
What is your resolution?
1920x1080 (still have to get a monitor)
What are you using it for?
Gaming (my main games are Planetside 2 and League of Legends), anime, music.
What is your upgrade cycle?
2-3 years
When do you plan on building it?
ASAP, was planning on ordering/picking up parts as soon as today/tomorrow.
Do you plan on overclocking?
No.
Do you need an Operating System?
Yes, the laptop I currently use has Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit, and I think I'd like to stay with that.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No.
Where are you buying your parts from?
Microcenter near my house and Newegg, whichever has cheaper parts. The things I think I need the most feedback on is the GPU and PSU. I was completely clueless on GPUs and don't know what I should be looking for. Regarding the PSU, I have no idea how much power I'd need to run this machine so I don't know if 500W will cut it or not :x and came up with the final build of: + Show Spoiler +I assembled all the parts last night, and when I booted it up, the fans and parts turn on for about five seconds, then shut off. Then start again, and shut off, over and over again. I checked to make sure everything was plugged in and in the right place, and even had a much more tech-savvy friend verify my setup. Our conclusion is that the most likely cause is that either I shorted something, or the PSU isn't powerful enough to boot the system. I tried turning the PSU around so that the fan was facing the ceiling rather than the floor, but I got the same problem. I also encountered the same issue after trying three different outlets. Just wondering if anyone at TL could offer any advice or help, would be much appreciated. If I can't get it to work, I will try to return the PSU and get the 650W version as Newegg has it on sale.
Did you put the standoffs on the case correctly? If it's turning on for 5 seconds then off it's probably not your PSU. Check your standoffs/make sure your mobo is cleanly off the metal case.
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I'm going to go with your boot order is messed up/non-existant.. Have you tried resetting your CMOS?
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On December 08 2012 14:31 Ferrose wrote:Hi, TL. Last week I posted the following build outline: + Show Spoiler +On December 03 2012 17:24 Ferrose wrote:Hey guys, I think I have a preliminary build. + Show Spoiler [survey in the OP] +What is your budget?
$750-$900
What is your resolution?
1920x1080 (still have to get a monitor)
What are you using it for?
Gaming (my main games are Planetside 2 and League of Legends), anime, music.
What is your upgrade cycle?
2-3 years
When do you plan on building it?
ASAP, was planning on ordering/picking up parts as soon as today/tomorrow.
Do you plan on overclocking?
No.
Do you need an Operating System?
Yes, the laptop I currently use has Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit, and I think I'd like to stay with that.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No.
Where are you buying your parts from?
Microcenter near my house and Newegg, whichever has cheaper parts. The things I think I need the most feedback on is the GPU and PSU. I was completely clueless on GPUs and don't know what I should be looking for. Regarding the PSU, I have no idea how much power I'd need to run this machine so I don't know if 500W will cut it or not :x and came up with the final build of: + Show Spoiler +I assembled all the parts last night, and when I booted it up, the fans and parts turn on for about five seconds, then shut off. Then start again, and shut off, over and over again. I checked to make sure everything was plugged in and in the right place, and even had a much more tech-savvy friend verify my setup. Our conclusion is that the most likely cause is that either I shorted something, or the PSU isn't powerful enough to boot the system. I tried turning the PSU around so that the fan was facing the ceiling rather than the floor, but I got the same problem. I also encountered the same issue after trying three different outlets. Just wondering if anyone at TL could offer any advice or help, would be much appreciated. If I can't get it to work, I will try to return the PSU and get the 650W version as Newegg has it on sale.
The 450w capstone is enough for two 650ti cards and your cpu, it's also highly unlikely to be defective in any way.
You've missed wiring in something.
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Well, I give up. I don't know why I thought it would be a good idea to try and build a PC.
I took everything apart and installed the standoffs (they were like little rubber circles) around the screw holes, and now it starts up for a split second, then immediately shuts down. I will try to take it back apart tomorrow but I doubt it will do anything.
Edit: I'm starting to think that these rubber things aren't standoffs.
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On December 08 2012 17:32 Ferrose wrote:
Well, I give up. I don't know why I thought it would be a good idea to try and build a PC.
I took everything apart and installed the standoffs (they were like little rubber circles) around the screw holes, and now it starts up for a split second, then immediately shuts down. I will try to take it back apart tomorrow but I doubt it will do anything.
Edit: I'm starting to think that these rubber things aren't standoffs.
Uhm,so the board is really close to the case? Meaning the contacts may touch the case resulting in shortening the whole board? Maybe those small rubber circles around the wholes are only for protection when actually using proper standoffs and screws, so you won't damage the board when using too much force?
I didnt own many cases, but all standoffs I know of, are like these here:
+ Show Spoiler +
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.govgroup.com/images_products/2340016_big.jpg)
