Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 1296
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
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Rachnar
France1526 Posts
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On December 08 2012 17:32 Ferrose wrote: Well, I give up. I don't know why I thought it would be a good idea to try and build a PC. I took everything apart and installed the standoffs (they were like little rubber circles) around the screw holes, and now it starts up for a split second, then immediately shuts down. I will try to take it back apart tomorrow but I doubt it will do anything. Edit: I'm starting to think that these rubber things aren't standoffs. Pictures help a lot. Take a picture of the motherboard from two angles: we can probably tell you if you plugged in all the power connections correctly. Take a picture of the standoffs if you're not sure you're using the right ones, etc. You were following a helper video like Hardware Canucks' computer build guide from youtube or somewhere like that, right? | ||
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FloKi
1490 Posts
My budget is 600-800euro My resolution is 1920x1080 I'll be using it mainly for Gaming. I'm guessing my upgrade cycle will be 1-2years. I'm planning to build it after February,most likely march or July. I will be overclocking it and yes i do need a OS. I plan do add a secound GPU. I live in Ireland,the only site i know of that will deliver to me is: • http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware • Amazon.co.uk I have pretty much zero experience with building any videos that you can PM me will be great! If also you could pm me the build in case i miss it in this thread. Thank you. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Take it slow and start from basics, systematically go through all the possibilities. If you're not sure, can't take a lot of pictures, etc., just take things apart and try again. Take the motherboard out out of the case, put it on a non-conductive surface, and take everything out but the CPU and one stick of RAM. Plug the monitor into the motherboard video out (don't even use the graphics card), plug in the motherboard 24-pin and 8-pin CPU connectors to the power supply, plug in the PC speaker if available, and try turning it on then. If it works, you can shut down and build on from there. @NaZa We always like to link current good deals so people get better prices—in a few days or weeks, never mind several months, deals may have come and gone. Also, Intel will have released next-gen processors by next July, and there could be new graphics cards as well. We have no idea of their performance and pricing yet. It's better to ask again later, when you're close to actually purchasing and building. But generally, for that budget, for a gaming build I would say that running two graphics cards is suboptimal and overclocking the CPU is unnecessary and requires a needless expense over a build that cannot overclock the CPU. To overclock these days, you need a more expensive CPU, a more expensive motherboard, and a decent aftermarket heatsink—performance can be improved, but most games don't need the extra CPU power anyway. Well, closer to 800 pounds you can overclock the CPU if you want, easily within budget, but I don't think it should be much of a focus from a performance perspective. | ||
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FloKi
1490 Posts
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On December 08 2012 05:27 Belial88 wrote: http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp Seems to me that just even 4ghz on an i5-2500k is going close to 150W, and that's quite a conservative overclock. Get an IB-i5 or stronger, a phenom ii, an FX, or i5 on a more standard overclock, and your definitely pushing past 160. Just realized I missed this earlier. We're talking about CPU power draw obviously, because we're talking about CPU heatsinks. We don't care about the power lost in any other system component like the motherboard / PSU / hard drives / RAM / etc. I hope you realize that the PSU calc is making a suggestion for a PSU, which is higher than total system draw, that's usually inaccurate, that furthermore also just looks up CPU TDPs in a table, and also that is not relevant because TDP figures are way off actual power consumption in many cases. I mean honestly, does anybody really think that an i7-3770k and i5-3350 use the same amount of power stock? Furthermore, TDP ratings are for the package; we're talking about full CPU loads with iGPU and video decode hardware (i.e. like a third of the chip) turned off. Ivy Bridge clearly uses even less power than Sandy Bridge—hopefully no surprise given the process change. Here is some approximate CPU load consumption (i5-2500 @ 62.2W with 95W TDP listed, 106.8W from the wall for the system). Ivy Bridge clearly draws less power, as seen here and here at least by system power consumption. As for scaling under overclocking, see here, keeping in mind that 45W or so is lost in places other than the CPU for the stock i5-2500k, with the number scaling up with load because the power supply and CPU VRMs consume more power as the processor takes more. With Phenom II and FX of course you can reach past 150W with a heavier overclock. Same for SB-E hex cores. These aren't the processors that are being overclocked on builds that make sense in general, particularly for users of this forum and not some kind of enthusiast hardware bencher communities. edit: but yes I do get it. If you're interested in theory and more power-hungry processors, it's better to test with more than 150W. I'd think that a 150W figure is a hold over from a prior era. To challenge the big heatsinks, you need a bigger load than Ivy Bridge. Anyway, if we were interested in theory and practice, maybe somebody would have brought up fin spacing. If you want a heatsink to do better for high fan speeds, you make the spacing smaller, like for Hyper 212 series, at the expense of lower-speed performance. | ||
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Ethelis
United States2397 Posts
CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504 Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128506 RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233254 GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130683 PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151098 i already have a case/hdd/cd drive ill probably be picking up something at the end of the month. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
GTX 560 Ti for $245 is a fucking joke. Why pay more for an overall shittier card than the 7850, 7870, or GTX 660? Board is probably a little expensive for your needs. Why pay so much for cas7 memory when you aren't spending thousands on the CPU and GPU first, the latter providing a much more significant and noticeable performance difference than cas7 memory (as opposed to cas9). Seasonic X is amazing and all but why pay $125 for the 560w variant when the newer 650w variant is $5 more? You're also missing a heatsink... | ||
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On December 09 2012 13:31 skyR wrote: Board is probably a little expensive for your needs. Seasonic X is amazing and all but why pay $125 for the 560w variant when the newer 650w variant is $5 more? You're also missing a heatsink... He would probably want a z77 board would he not? As he won't want to bios update, which requires a sandy bridge processor. Also the powersupply is about double what he needs to spend for a quality unit. Capstone 450w will probably be enough for any cpu+gpu for 20 years, given current trends. Mirage are you even overclocking your cpu? It changes a lot if you're not. | ||
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Ethelis
United States2397 Posts
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On December 09 2012 14:34 MisterFred wrote: Cut the RAM. It will get in the way of the tower heatsink you should be buying (look for the Xigmatek Gaia on newegg). If you're not overclocking you have the wrong CPU & motherboard too. Get low profile RAM (& cheaper RAM: 1600mhz cas9 is more than fine). Cut the video card, get a better GPU. I recommend the Sapphire 7870 or 7950, depending on your budget. Cut the PSU, get a cheaper one. I recommend the Rosewill Capstone 450w. Seconded entirely. These instead, essentially identical for non-overclocking. Don't need a cpu heatsink though, the gpu will be way louder. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115233&Tpk=3570 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130653 | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On December 08 2012 05:34 MisterFred wrote: Less repeating yourself, please. You've said, I dunno, eight times or whatever that 'every other' reputable reviewer gets different results from frostytech. Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't count for much. Links (of quality reviews directly contradiction frostytech or of articles/posts criticizing a bias towards a sponsor using something other than generic hearsay) & methodology discussion would be something new, for instance. Repeating yourself without referencing hard data will not convince people you are a tech authority. No, generic summaries of articles you read six months ago do not count as hard data. P.S. Jinglehell, Myrmidon, Womwomwom and all the other major posters here (I do not count as one of them) have all done so and proven themselves in the past. This is one of the reasons why those of us that are relatively uninformed trust that their word/understanding/explanations is better than yours. They are all quality posters, for sure, but Jinglehell is wrong on this one (i dont think womwomwom is saying much besides the hyper 212 evo performs well, which it does, of course) It's definitely arguable what the best air heatsink in the world is. But it is not arguable at all that the K2/Assassin, NH-D14, Silver Arrow, and Phanteks, are the top 5 heatsinks in the world, and are all miles ahead of other coolers in performance except very high tier ones (like an HR-02 or Frio comes close, obviously), particularly budget class coolers like the Hyper 212. And it is not arguable that these coolers are much, much better than the Hyper 212 when it comes to cooling performance. Also, it is not arguable at all, that these top end coolers, are within 3*C of eachother, they are all very close in performance, both in apples to apples and in stock configurations, so while someone might say one is better than the other (and each of them really are neck and neck and might be better in one configuration/set-up than an other, ie an extreme bench vs high end 24/7 overclock, 1 fan vs 2 fans vs 3 fans, stock fans vs apples to apples), everyone will agree they are all the best coolers out there and all really good. NOT, as the frostytech link says, significantly different from eachother. So when an article shows the Silver Arrow and k2/Assassin as significantly behind everything else, and even being worse than the Hyper 212, it's obvious it's absolute crock. I mean.... it's common sense that the Hyper 212 cannot compete with these coolers. Thus, linking a benchmark that does not use a CPU, but rather a heatplate that is well below the TDP of a standard, 24/7 overclocked CPU (only 150tdp, 3.8ghz+ phenoms and 4.5+ ghz i5-2500ks go well above 150 tdp according to extreme powercalc), and shows that the Hyper 212 is better than a silver arrow, just removes all credibility. And yea, benchmarks can differ, of course. Testing metholodies can be different yet still show very relevant results. But when the test results are in orders of magnitude of 5*C+ difference, when the relative ordering of heatsinks is completely different than everything else out there, literally every other benchmark and user anecdote, it's obviously bogus. Furthermore, the low heat tested on these heatsinks is basically just running a hot, idle chip. When your running load temps of 70-80*C+, you'll see much bigger differences. That's why you have results like the NH-D14 or H100 being way worse than a Hyper 212, because that's only true at idle or on non-overclocked chips, because that's basically what frostytech is testing, and everyone knows idle temps and even non-overclocked tests are bunk (non-oc tests might only be relevant if you are running very, very cheap coolers, no one is buying more than $30 in heatsink if you aren't overclocking). Also, HDT does extremely well on idle/stock relatively, as well as vapor chambers, because of how they work. When load temps get really high and overclocked, HDT does significantly worse than more 'standard' heatsink base designs. It's great for budget cooling, but won't hold up a high overclock. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On December 08 2012 06:11 JingleHell wrote: Oh, just as a simple test of truth here... http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=674&Itemid=62 Read how many heatpipes that has, please? ![]() Even this picture doesn't do it justice, but the Silver Arrow's heatpipes are about 2-3x bigger than the size of most heatpipes. Jinglehell... I really don't think you know what your talking about when it comes to heatsinks. Please, I implore you to register on any overclock forum, and just throw out the question "hey guys what's better in performance, a Silver Arrow or K2/Assassin, or a Hyper 212 Evo? Because I think the Hyper 212 Evo is better! | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
No, the review doesn't show the Hyper 212 Evo as better than the Phanteks, but it shows it being better than the Silver Arrow and the K2, which are near identical in performance to NH-D14 and Phanteks... I've also posted a ton of reasons, and some links, to why Frostytech is laughable, and how what they say is absolutely absurd. Come on, they have a 5 HDT heatsink as 'the best AMD cooler in the world', above the h100 and nh-d14 and etc. It's really as simple as 'just google it'. Anything. "Hyper 212 Evo Review": https://www.google.com/search?q=hyper 212 evo review&aq=f&oq=hyper 212 e&aqs=chrome.0.59j0j59l2j61l2.1246&sugexp=chrome,mod=17&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 First review result: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/cm_hyper212_evo/4.htm At a test of only ~60-70*C temperature range, NH-D14 is 6*C cooler than the Hyper 212 evo. But is the Nh-D14 similar in performance to the k2/assassin? nh-d14 vs assassin: First bench: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/LGA-2011-i7-3960X-Air-Overclocking,3130-17.html Look at that, on a low 50*C test, the Assassin is much further ahead than the Hyper 212 Evo. Whatever, even if the Assassin is the 4th best heatsink, for $39, it's literally the best deal in the world in regards to air cooling at new price. Hyper 212+ vs Hyper 212 Evo http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/heatsinksfans/13336-cm-hyper-212-evo-cpu-cooler-review?start=5 Linked in the first google result (which was a forum) Look at that, 3*C difference. The heatsinks are basically identical. Oh right, the Hyper 212+ with some better TIM and a 2nd fan will beat an Assassin, a Silver Arrow. Sure, that makes sense. your right, I'm wrong jingle, that bench is totally reliable and the assassin is just a horrible cooler, even though in design it's identical to all the other dual tower heatsinks, and every dual tower heatsink rank up as the top 5 coolers in performance. And the Silver Arrow is only as good as a Hyper 212 too, apparently, even though 'just google it' will show you that Silver Arrow=Nh-d14=Phanteks=K2/Assassin, roughly. | ||
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Incze
Romania2058 Posts
On December 08 2012 14:31 Ferrose wrote: Hi, TL. Last week I posted the following build outline: Did you check your headers? (I mean stuff like PWRBTN, PLED+, PLED-, HDDLED. Those little things coming from the front of the case mounted onto pins on the motherboard. Even a small mistake like putting them in the wrong order can make your computer not start. You should read the manual again for the exact position of each. I know this because that was the reason my home-built computer (bought with TL's help) wouldn't start. Finally figured it out after checking and rechecking everything half a dozen times. The 7850 power edition is a pretty damn good card. Runs everything I've thrown at it on ultra or close to it on 1920*1080, the only game it goes over 50 degrees is far cry 3 maxed, but it kinda makes a lot of noise. I've even OC'ed it to 1050/1450, no problem. | ||
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Bazinga
Germany132 Posts
I want to build a new pc, my budget would be around 900€ and this is the build i have in mind as of now: CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230v2 4x 3.30GHz So.1155 BOX GFX Card: 3072MB Gigabyte Radeon HD 7950 WindForce 3X HDD: 1000GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 ST1000DM003 SSD: 128GB OCZ Vertex 4 2.5" (6.4cm) SATA 6Gb/s MLC Mainboard: ASRock Z77Pro3 Intel Z77 So.1155 Dual Channel RAM: 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3-1600 DIMM CL9 Case: Sharkoon T28 Midi Tower PSU: 530 Watt be quiet! Pure Power L7 Non-Modular 80+ I don't really know whether or not the XEON is a good fit, i'm really torn between this one and the 3570k I'd be much obliged if you could check this setting and tell me where i can improve it. ![]() | ||
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
From certain tests, the Hyper 212+ is around 8-10 degrees worse than the Noctua D14 when both coolers are using the same suboptimal fans in push/pull configuration. So if you shove stock Noctua P series fans on the D14 and shove that 2000RPM fan on the Hyper 212 Evo, which as Myrmidon explained, has tighter fin spacing than the Hyper 212+, its not inconceivable that a benchmark could show the two coolers be extremely close in cooling performance especially if you take scientific variance into account. Not to mention just how much of a pain it is to install DHT coolers compared to a properly machined base found on more expensive coolers. At any rate, its well better than the Noctua U12P with the stock Noctua setup when its ramping at full load and mounted correctly. I still don't see what the problem is. If you shove a Delta fan on the Hyper 212 Evo, are you going to complain about the results? Of course not because Delta fans are fucking loud. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
It's not certain tests, it's proper tests that exemplify the difference - high temperature ranges on an overvolted and overclocked CPU. There's not going to be a big difference on only 150TDP, or a very minor overclock even on load. You also have things like AMD chips run hot at 50-60*C, while intel run hot at 70-90*C. 5*C difference in load temps on an overclock is a lot different on a phenom at 55 vs 60 and an intel at 85 vs 90. RPM does not determine the quality, or power of a fan... CFM, ie how much air it pushes, and static pressure to a lesser degree, and more specifically, CFM/dbA, is a better measurement of the quality of a fan. You can ramp up any piece of shit to a high RPM, and you can make any piece of shit push enough CFM, the question is the sound it makes at given CFM, or conversely, how much CFM it can push at a sound level. They all have different CFM/dbA profiles as well. Fans only do so much, they don't change temperatures that much. Obviously, no fan/low fan vs high power 140mm is a big difference, but like I said, you can get any piece of shit to push X CFM, and slap that on a heatsink, but quality is about it being quieter for the CFM, and static pressure (and a few other, minor things). It doesn't matter what fans you put on the Hyper 212+, even shrouded 120mm x 40mm fan, it won't measure up to a fanned nh-d14. Putting a delta fan on the hyper 212 evo is going to ridiculous lengths, and you still aren't going to get the performance of an nh-d14 even on stock or some low power fans, because the hyper 212 simply doesn't pull heat away enough and has too little surface area and a bad contact surface and poor liquid inside it's heatpipes and too few and small heatpipes. Sure, the Hyper 212 evo might cool a lot better with deltas, but then put those same deltas on the NH-d14 and it'll perform leagues ahead of it, despite fin spacing and the hyper 212 appreciating it more. The Noctua d14 has open fins because it's optimized for low sound. Put that delta on the k2/assassin or the phanteks and no other heatsink in the world will touch them in performance no matter their fan configurations. The K2/assassin is arguably the best heatsink in the world, apples for apples, and top 5 heatsink in the world in performance both apples to apples and stock. Even at 5th place, for $39 new, it's definitely, by far, the best value heatsink to buy right now, except arguably a hyper 212 (which simply won't cool a 24/7 high overclock sb/phenom x4 or any OC ivy bridge/phenom x6). Jinglehell is wrong as shit when he says the k2/assassin is a bad heatsink, that review is crap, and testing a 150tdp plate, which is basically stock load, doesn't mean shit, since performance doesn't come out until higher clocks/TDPs, which is the kind of person who'd pay more than $20 for a heatsink. The k2/assassin may arguably not be the best heatsink, but it's definitely top 5, as every review of it shows (Just google "logisys assassin review"). | ||
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