EPTComputer Build Resource Thread - Page 1298
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
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diclKrunk
United States7 Posts
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157304 | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On December 09 2012 19:34 Womwomwom wrote: I don't think he or anyone said that...? From what I can read, he's just been saying that its a good product but not that amazing for the price. And that its not the best cooler in the entire world. I don't think he's ever said that its a bad cooler though he might have in the walls of texts being slugs around for just about no reason. Obviously but no matter what, a 2000RPM fan is going perform better than a fan specifically designed for silent operation especially if its shoved onto a tower heatsink with tight fan spacing. Its just how it is, the Delta example is just meant to suggest than you can brute force anything to cool decently but it doesn't mean its a good solution. A lot of benchmarks have wildly different results for the Hyper 212 Evo for both the 1600RPM and 2000RPM version, which suggest rather than bad benchmarks but the product is cheap and, as you perhaps suggested, doesn't exactly have the best manufacturing tolerances that the more expensive heatsinks have. I still don't really know what's the problem. Maybe Frostytech isn't the best resource but I still not really seeing any real problems with their results especially with the Silver Arrow/Evo "problem". At $39, the K2/Assassin is godly for the price. A better benchmark of the hyper 212 evo would be an apples to apples bench where they use identical fan set-ups with high power fans. There are tons of problems with frostytech: - 150tdp is not even an overclocked 24/7 CPU. An i5 sb/phenom x4 on a mild 24/7 overclock will be over 150tdp, and an i7/i5 ib/phenom x6/fx is going to run way hotter than 150tdp on an overclock. Everyone knows idle and stock and even low overclock results don't mean shit, because they don't strain the heatsink. All heatsinks will perform roughly the same at 150tdp, hence why there's a 5*C spread between the best cooler in the world, the H100 (or wait, im sorry, the Spire Thermax!) vs stock cooling. Heatplate is bad, but it'd be better if they tested 180-200tdp. - Stock set-ups doesnt really tell much, as you said - a low running high quality fan and a blazing loud shit hsf being benched doesnt tell you anything in regards to performance. It doesn't even tell you anything about sound profiles, as fans are a big part of the sound and any quiet rig will get custom fans or slow down the fans, the heatsink is also a big part of the sound. Apples to apples. - It's obvious their results are bunk when they are complete opposite of what every other benchmark gets. I mean the HR-02 is the quietest best heatsink around. But if you look at stock set-ups, you wouldn't know it's extremely quiet, you'd actually think it's just a loud piece of junk due to the stock fan (and at that price level, $10 for a high quality quiet fan is not asking too much). And if your looking for pure performance, something that people on both a budget, and looking for the absolute best, your gonna want an apples to apples test, and your gonna want a more demanding test than a 150tdp heat plate on stock settings. Jinglehell made a comment about how the hyper 212 evo was better than the k2/assassin, and how it was a horrible heatsink. Even if it was as 'bad' as the 10th best heatsink in the world, at $39 it's still a better value than any other heatsink in the world at that current deal. It's 50% off for $80 class cooling, new. http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=33412 Nothing better than that heatsink, right now, for new heatsinks. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On December 10 2012 15:32 Belial88 wrote: - 150tdp is not even an overclocked 24/7 CPU. An i5 sb/phenom x4 on a mild 24/7 overclock will be over 150tdp, and an i7/i5 ib/phenom x6/fx is going to run way hotter than 150tdp on an overclock. Everyone knows idle and stock and even low overclock results don't mean shit, because they don't strain the heatsink. All heatsinks will perform roughly the same at 150tdp, hence why there's a 5*C spread between the best cooler in the world, the H100 (or wait, im sorry, the Spire Thermax!) vs stock cooling. Heatplate is bad, but it'd be better if they tested 180-200tdp. Wait, you seriously still think i5 SB on mild 24/7 overclock reaches 150W? btw wtf kind of unit is a tdp? ... ... ... ... btw there's an earlier post on this + Show Spoiler [old post] + On December 09 2012 01:26 Myrmidon wrote: Just realized I missed this earlier. We're talking about CPU power draw obviously, because we're talking about CPU heatsinks. We don't care about the power lost in any other system component like the motherboard / PSU / hard drives / RAM / etc. I hope you realize that the PSU calc is making a suggestion for a PSU, which is higher than total system draw, that's usually inaccurate, that furthermore also just looks up CPU TDPs in a table, and also that is not relevant because TDP figures are way off actual power consumption in many cases. I mean honestly, does anybody really think that an i7-3770k and i5-3350 use the same amount of power stock? Furthermore, TDP ratings are for the package; we're talking about full CPU loads with iGPU and video decode hardware (i.e. like a third of the chip) turned off. Ivy Bridge clearly uses even less power than Sandy Bridge—hopefully no surprise given the process change. Here is some approximate CPU load consumption (i5-2500 @ 62.2W with 95W TDP listed, 106.8W from the wall for the system). Ivy Bridge clearly draws less power, as seen here and here at least by system power consumption. As for scaling under overclocking, see here, keeping in mind that 45W or so is lost in places other than the CPU for the stock i5-2500k, with the number scaling up with load because the power supply and CPU VRMs consume more power as the processor takes more. With Phenom II and FX of course you can reach past 150W with a heavier overclock. Same for SB-E hex cores. These aren't the processors that are being overclocked on builds that make sense in general, particularly for users of this forum and not some kind of enthusiast hardware bencher communities. edit: but yes I do get it. If you're interested in theory and more power-hungry processors, it's better to test with more than 150W. I'd think that a 150W figure is a hold over from a prior era. To challenge the big heatsinks, you need a bigger load than Ivy Bridge. Anyway, if we were interested in theory and practice, maybe somebody would have brought up fin spacing. If you want a heatsink to do better for high fan speeds, you make the spacing smaller, like for Hyper 212 series, at the expense of lower-speed performance. P.S. since when is TY-140 a piece of junk, or even that loud compared to most stock fans? | ||
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iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
On December 10 2012 15:50 Myrmidon wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On December 10 2012 15:32 Belial88 wrote: - 150tdp is not even an overclocked 24/7 CPU. An i5 sb/phenom x4 on a mild 24/7 overclock will be over 150tdp, and an i7/i5 ib/phenom x6/fx is going to run way hotter than 150tdp on an overclock. Everyone knows idle and stock and even low overclock results don't mean shit, because they don't strain the heatsink. All heatsinks will perform roughly the same at 150tdp, hence why there's a 5*C spread between the best cooler in the world, the H100 (or wait, im sorry, the Spire Thermax!) vs stock cooling. Heatplate is bad, but it'd be better if they tested 180-200tdp. Wait, you seriously still think i5 SB on mild 24/7 overclock reaches 150W? btw wtf kind of unit is a tdp? ... ... ... ... btw there's an earlier post on this + Show Spoiler [old post] + On December 09 2012 01:26 Myrmidon wrote: Just realized I missed this earlier. We're talking about CPU power draw obviously, because we're talking about CPU heatsinks. We don't care about the power lost in any other system component like the motherboard / PSU / hard drives / RAM / etc. I hope you realize that the PSU calc is making a suggestion for a PSU, which is higher than total system draw, that's usually inaccurate, that furthermore also just looks up CPU TDPs in a table, and also that is not relevant because TDP figures are way off actual power consumption in many cases. I mean honestly, does anybody really think that an i7-3770k and i5-3350 use the same amount of power stock? Furthermore, TDP ratings are for the package; we're talking about full CPU loads with iGPU and video decode hardware (i.e. like a third of the chip) turned off. Ivy Bridge clearly uses even less power than Sandy Bridge—hopefully no surprise given the process change. Here is some approximate CPU load consumption (i5-2500 @ 62.2W with 95W TDP listed, 106.8W from the wall for the system). Ivy Bridge clearly draws less power, as seen here and here at least by system power consumption. As for scaling under overclocking, see here, keeping in mind that 45W or so is lost in places other than the CPU for the stock i5-2500k, with the number scaling up with load because the power supply and CPU VRMs consume more power as the processor takes more. With Phenom II and FX of course you can reach past 150W with a heavier overclock. Same for SB-E hex cores. These aren't the processors that are being overclocked on builds that make sense in general, particularly for users of this forum and not some kind of enthusiast hardware bencher communities. edit: but yes I do get it. If you're interested in theory and more power-hungry processors, it's better to test with more than 150W. I'd think that a 150W figure is a hold over from a prior era. To challenge the big heatsinks, you need a bigger load than Ivy Bridge. Anyway, if we were interested in theory and practice, maybe somebody would have brought up fin spacing. If you want a heatsink to do better for high fan speeds, you make the spacing smaller, like for Hyper 212 series, at the expense of lower-speed performance. P.S. since when is TY-140 a piece of junk, or even that loud compared to most stock fans? When you can't win an argument over the internet with logic, you spew bullshit to confuse them. I would seriously think of not replying to Belial or reading his posts in this thread, as they aren't very useful. They have a striking resemblance of the walls of text people concoct in the balance threads. | ||
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On December 10 2012 16:34 iTzSnypah wrote: When you can't win an argument over the internet because you're wrong, you spew bullshit to confuse them. I would seriously think of not replying to Belial or reading his posts in this thread, as they aren't very useful. They have a striking resemblance of the walls of text people concoct in the balance threads. Fixed for you. | ||
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89vision
United States70 Posts
What is your budget? ~$800 USD What is your resolution? 1920x1080. Need monitor. 27" preferred but 23"+ is ok. This must be included in $800 What are you using it for? Media and games. Movies, watching streams, netflix, etc.. That is the primary usage along with schoolwork, which is not very demanding. DOTA 2, SC2, various other games possibly. What is your upgrade cycle? 3+ years When do you plan on building it? Late December Do you plan on overclocking? No Do you need an Operating System? Yes Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No Where are you buying your parts from? Online. NCIX USA or newegg, etc.. | ||
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iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
On December 10 2012 16:39 89vision wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Helping a friend out who picked out a refurb HP PC from best buy that comes with 27" monitor for about $800. So I want to beat that. I think it had a 6870 and an AMD processor. What is your budget? ~$800 USD What is your resolution? 1920x1080. Need monitor. 27" preferred but 23"+ is ok. This must be included in $800 What are you using it for? Media and games. Movies, watching streams, netflix, etc.. That is the primary usage along with schoolwork, which is not very demanding. DOTA 2, SC2, various other games possibly. What is your upgrade cycle? 3+ years When do you plan on building it? Late December Do you plan on overclocking? No Do you need an Operating System? Yes Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No Where are you buying your parts from? Online. NCIX USA or newegg, etc.. Err you do know all 27" monitors are 2560 x 1440/1600 and the graphics card required to push that many pixels while gaming is around half your budget. I would suggest a standard 1920 x 1080 21" monitor. | ||
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On December 10 2012 16:39 89vision wrote: Helping a friend out who picked out a refurb HP PC from best buy that comes with 27" monitor for about $800. So I want to beat that. I think it had a 6870 and an AMD processor. What is your budget? ~$800 USD What is your resolution? 1920x1080. Need monitor. 27" preferred but 23"+ is ok. This must be included in $800 What are you using it for? Media and games. Movies, watching streams, netflix, etc.. That is the primary usage along with schoolwork, which is not very demanding. DOTA 2, SC2, various other games possibly. What is your upgrade cycle? 3+ years When do you plan on building it? Late December Do you plan on overclocking? No Do you need an Operating System? Yes Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No Where are you buying your parts from? Online. NCIX USA or newegg, etc.. 1920x1080 27" monitors suck because of the horrible pixel density, a 1080p 27" is far worse than a 21-23" 1080p, hence you want 1440p. Non-ips 27" monitors are shit because of the huge amounts of colour shift you get at that size. That leaves you spending $400+ on a 27" monitor that doesn't look like shit, absolute minimum, $600 for a known manufacturer. You can try your luck getting a catleap of ebay for $400 on ebay, but no promises it will work well. If we factor in $100 for an operating system, we can use $300 for internals. Which is fine if you want to watch youtube videos, but if you want to play games on it, you need to make your expectations realistic. A 27" monitor is worse than a 21-23" unless you have a powerful system AND spend a far bit of money on the monitor itself. $1200 for monitor + computer + os might work, with $800 stick with a $100 tn monitor. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
This in ignoring the inefficiencies you expect from a PSU, motherboard, the two HD7970s in that system, amongst other things. I don't actually know if Jinglehell actually said the Evo was better than the Assassin (really?) because the benchmark he initially posted from HardwareSecrets put that cooler in a very good light so I'm not sure how he could post that without getting called out by everyone else. I don't even know what the problem is anymore, there's so much muddying of the water that I think I'm just going to ignore this from now on. Edit: 27" 1920x1080 monitors are only ever decent if you treat it like a TV and sit very far back. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
On December 10 2012 15:32 Belial88 wrote: A better benchmark of the hyper 212 evo would be an apples to apples bench where they use identical fan set-ups with high power fans. There are tons of problems with frostytech: - Stock set-ups doesnt really tell much, as you said - a low running high quality fan and a blazing loud shit hsf being benched doesnt tell you anything in regards to performance. It doesn't even tell you anything about sound profiles, as fans are a big part of the sound and any quiet rig will get custom fans or slow down the fans, the heatsink is also a big part of the sound. Apples to apples. If you want a shootout between all coolers combined with all your fans, go ahead and find one for this site. Otherwise, all the evidence we have available is only from reviews. And you're questioning the legitimacy of a site with no real evidence other than, "can't you see this doesn't make sense!" when everyone has already answered the claims of Frosty's not being legitimate. You seem to think everyone here is ignorant and can't think for themselves when they look at reviews, and that they would use a site that is suspiciously bad. But no one has found a reason to doubt the site other than a few odd measurements that everyone knows are whack and understand the reasons why they are whack. You also seem to think that everyone only uses one source. If they say something, they've verified it makes sense or at least is mostly true over multiple sources. No one here is dumb enough to look at one source and make a conclusion. The good thing about Frostys is that it has a huge list of coolers so you can easily get a grasp on where something stands. As much as everyone wants a consistent test bench over 50 odd coolers and 20 different fans combinations per, it's not going to happen in the near future with a legitimate reviewer, so your claims are only claims, because you're not providing evidence for your them. - 150tdp is not even an overclocked 24/7 CPU. An i5 sb/phenom x4 on a mild 24/7 overclock will be over 150tdp, and an i7/i5 ib/phenom x6/fx is going to run way hotter than 150tdp on an overclock. Everyone knows idle and stock and even low overclock results don't mean shit, because they don't strain the heatsink. All heatsinks will perform roughly the same at 150tdp, hence why there's a 5*C spread between the best cooler in the world, the H100 (or wait, im sorry, the Spire Thermax!) vs stock cooling. Heatplate is bad, but it'd be better if they tested 180-200tdp. Not sure what you're talking about here because tdp isn't a unit as someone pointed out. I'm pretty sure I'm just mistaken here because you can't possibly be this wrong, but on both 150W and 85W comparisons, nothing with the words Stock or Intel come within 6 deg. C of the H100. Again, I'm probably wrong. But if I'm not...really? - It's obvious their results are bunk when they are complete opposite of what every other benchmark gets. In Frosty's, the H100 beats the H50. Stop posting absolutes, and if you're going to say something, back it up with hard evidence. Not this weak anecdotal bull. http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-EVO-CPU-Cooler-Review/1407/6 Look, 1 deg. C difference between the Evo and the Noctua, which supposedly means 1 deg. C difference between the Silver Arrow and Noctua since they're basically the same like you've been saying, no? Immediately wrong, never mind the legitimacy of the source nor the tolerances on the coolers, just because you're being so extreme with your claims every time. EDIT: This was posted 5 pages ago by Jingle, and you just disregard the results and reviewer, look the other direction and continue your anti-stock fan tirade without evidence. And according to this (which contradicts your earlier hatred of Hardware Secrets, Hardware Secrets is fine. On December 08 2012 05:27 Belial88 wrote: There are definitely tons of factors involved with heatsink performance, but you can get a relative idea of a heatsink's performance compared to other popular heatsinks based on looking at tons of reviews by trustworthy sites (no tomshardware, no frostytech, basically, just avoid those 2 shitty sites and your good) and user anecdotes by reliable users (OCN, Anandtech forums, etc). So yeah... Jinglehell made a comment about how the hyper 212 evo was better than the k2/assassin, and how it was a horrible heatsink. Even if it was as 'bad' as the 10th best heatsink in the world, at $39 it's still a better value than any other heatsink in the world at that current deal. It's 50% off for $80 class cooling, new. http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=33412 Nothing better than that heatsink, right now, for new heatsinks. This is his post. Nowhere near suggesting the Assassin was bad. Get your facts straight. You're arguing nothing, and hating on Jingle for absolutely no reason. On December 07 2012 08:21 JingleHell wrote: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-EVO-CPU-Cooler-Review/1407/6 212 Evo coming in just behind a NH C14, which is an excellent cooler. http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/cm_hyper212_evo/4.htm Competitive with NH D14 Are you just going to call anything that doesn't make you sound smart a trash review? Because it seems lots of people agree that's a pretty fair cooler, so it calls your entire attack on frostytech into question. To be fair, they've had a few reviews go wonky due to certain designs with their testbed, but frankly, I'd say making ad homs based on this is ludicrous. Long story short, don't go making shit up so it supports a pet theory of yours. http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Gamer-Storm-Assassin-CPU-Cooler-Review/1540/6 That's a not so awesome review. Without crossdecking to Frostytech. Good, but not amazing. Certainly not "best in the world!!1one" material. Not one comparison between the Evo and the Assassin. Why you've been pursuing this is beyond me. apples to apples And stop using this stupid phrase. Jesus. Expand your vocabulary. No one ever argued the Assassin was bad for its price. No one will ever argue that the best testing would not be done on a consistent test bench with the same fans. EVERYONE IS ARGUING AGAINST YOUR USE OF ABSOLUTES WHILE NOT PROVIDING (COMPLETE) EVIDENCE. You also can't just throw away evidence that doesn't support you, or use evidence and sites only as it supports your claims. At this point, you've really de-legitimized yourself in this thread and you're only making yourself seem like an immature kid. Stop attempting to rebut anything. Admit you're wrong (or don't), and move on. Even if you are right, or even if you think you are right, just stop, and move on, because you're getting nowhere, and you're never going to get anywhere, because you've been wrong so many times already it's ridiculous to keep having to background check all your claims for you, you keep arguing points no one is talking about, you keep making extreme claims without evidence and keep bringing up arguments that no one has made. Just stop. Thank you. EDIT: Also, apologize to Jingle for being so rude to him despite being wrong and misinterpreting his comment for this entire time (and starting 7 pages of irrelevance). | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On December 10 2012 17:13 iTzSnypah wrote: Err you do know all 27" monitors are 2560 x 1440/1600 and the graphics card required to push that many pixels while gaming is around half your budget. I would suggest a standard 1920 x 1080 21" monitor. I just wanted to correct this for the less informed. Some 27" monitors are 2560x1440 resolution, some are 1920x1080 resolution. The one coming with the refurb was almost certainly one of the lower-end 1920x1080 versions (lower-end meaning not IPS or 2560x1440 or 120hz-capable). However, 89vision, you should be aware we generally don't recommend 27" 1920x1080 monitors on this website. Why? Pixel size. A larger screen with the same number of pixels = larger pixels = blockier, less precise graphics. 2560x1440 27" monitors look better than 1920x1080 versions for this reason. Now you're in a good spot because you can look at your friend's monitor & try and compare it to, say, a 1920x1080 23" monitor. If you like your friend's better, then there you go. You can ignore the drawback above. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Note that a lot of the prices below expire today or soon, but these aren't particularly amazing deals. Core i3-3220 - $110 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=75429&vpn=BX80637I33220&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1306 Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB - $60 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=58402&promoid=1306 Asus CD / DVD writer - $17 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=49597&promoid=1306 BitFenix Merc Alpha - $40 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=77540&promoid=1306 Windows 8 64-bit OEM (or 7, whatever) - $88 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=77180&promoid=1306 MSI B75MA-E33 - $54 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130654 Transcend 2 x 4GB 1600 MHz - $30 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208579 HIS IceQ X HD 7850 1GB - $175 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161425 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026 Antec Neo Eco 400C (does not come with power cord; use any old one) - $40 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371029 BenQ GW2450 (24" 1080p AMVA with relatively fast response) - $160 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014299 edit: just so we're clear, you can say that the viewing angles should be better than on the 27" in the refurb, and the black levels will be a lot better. | ||
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Marradron
Netherlands1586 Posts
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Nuttyguy
United Kingdom1526 Posts
some help/input would be nice Im reusing old parts so i'll only need the following CPU i5-3570K (chosen) will be overclocking later, not right away RAM 8GB (2x4GB) want 2 slots empty incase of upgrade instead of having (4x2GB) Kind of clueless on what RAM to get, preferably one with low timings? + Show Spoiler + http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/ivy-bridge-ddr3_3.html#sect0 says ram speed trumphs timings? so 1666mhz minimum Mobo (ATX sized please) need 6 sata slots 2 GPU slots would be nice BUT not necessary i have no idea what chipsets i should be looking at. Things from old build GTX260 OCZ Vertex 2 60gb bunch of hard drives some decent corsair 600w? PSU budget ~300 GBP flexible including CPU possible sites to look at overclockers.co.uk / ebuyer.com / pixmania.com ill probably amazon it but amazon terribad for narrowing down options. Also im looking at new SSD (not including in the above budget) 160gb+, i have no idea if i should wait for anything new (out of the loop for a long time) or get a revodrive. | ||
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Nightops
United States66 Posts
i3-3220 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz - $120 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116775 560Ti GTX 2gb - $250 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130683 case - $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153 ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 - $130 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157293 2GB X2 CL9 - $30 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ST08P6213&Tpk=CL9 1.5v 2gb x2 CX430 430W 80+ - $45 (24 with rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026 I'm not certain what to look for in fans, and there's some that come with the case. Can you guys let me know if I'm missing anything that he needs to build the comp? Can you recommend any SSD, harddrives, optical drives, and anything else I'm missing. | ||
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
On December 11 2012 06:48 Nightops wrote: Hey guys, this is for my friend who wants a computer for around 500ish, maybe a little bit more. It's mainly for gaming, and new generation games at that. i3-3220 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz - $120 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116775 560Ti GTX 2gb - $250 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130683 case - $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153 ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 - $130 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157293 2GB X2 CL9 - $30 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ST08P6213&Tpk=CL9 1.5v 2gb x2 CX430 430W 80+ - $45 (24 with rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026 I'm not certain what to look for in fans, and there's some that come with the case. Can you guys let me know if I'm missing anything that he needs to build the comp? Can you recommend any SSD, harddrives, optical drives, and anything else I'm missing. 560 Ti is horrible for the price. A 7870 costs the same but performs a ton better: (performance) XFX 7870 For case, I'm going to pick something Myrmidon suggested already, Bitfenix merc alpha. Better case, priced less (sale today) Not really sure what motherboard to recommend, but you can probably get a less expensive Z77. Grab 8GB RAM, especially since you can get it for 5$ more link As for PSU, that one is good, I know the Rosewill capstone 450W is better but it's also 20$ more, I dunno if you need it (somebody else will recommend.) For a CPU cooler, people recommend the Hyper 212+, but there might be a sale for a better cooler or something. This is for starters, somebody else will probably weigh in on more detailed things (i.e. motherboard, my choices etc.) Idt you can get an SSD and a HDD under 500 with that GPU, (you're like right on budget right now), but the cheapest 500GB 7200RPM western digital/seagate should be fine, and the cheapest 15$ ODD you can find. Edit: You're already over 500$ because of the motherboard haha. I just realized that you have an i3-3220, drop the motherboard for something like this. Ignore the bit about the CPU cooler; it's unnecessary. I assumed you were overclocking. Skyr, Myrmidon, or Medrea will probably be able to fine tune this with better sales etc. but this is a better starting point. Oh and you need an OS. If you're in college, you can grab one for 15$ most likely, otherwise that'd be another ~60-80$, unless you have one. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On December 10 2012 15:50 Myrmidon wrote: Wait, you seriously still think i5 SB on mild 24/7 overclock reaches 150W? btw wtf kind of unit is a tdp? ... ... ... ... btw there's an earlier post on this + Show Spoiler [old post] + On December 09 2012 01:26 Myrmidon wrote: Just realized I missed this earlier. We're talking about CPU power draw obviously, because we're talking about CPU heatsinks. We don't care about the power lost in any other system component like the motherboard / PSU / hard drives / RAM / etc. I hope you realize that the PSU calc is making a suggestion for a PSU, which is higher than total system draw, that's usually inaccurate, that furthermore also just looks up CPU TDPs in a table, and also that is not relevant because TDP figures are way off actual power consumption in many cases. I mean honestly, does anybody really think that an i7-3770k and i5-3350 use the same amount of power stock? Furthermore, TDP ratings are for the package; we're talking about full CPU loads with iGPU and video decode hardware (i.e. like a third of the chip) turned off. Ivy Bridge clearly uses even less power than Sandy Bridge—hopefully no surprise given the process change. Here is some approximate CPU load consumption (i5-2500 @ 62.2W with 95W TDP listed, 106.8W from the wall for the system). Ivy Bridge clearly draws less power, as seen here and here at least by system power consumption. As for scaling under overclocking, see here, keeping in mind that 45W or so is lost in places other than the CPU for the stock i5-2500k, with the number scaling up with load because the power supply and CPU VRMs consume more power as the processor takes more. With Phenom II and FX of course you can reach past 150W with a heavier overclock. Same for SB-E hex cores. These aren't the processors that are being overclocked on builds that make sense in general, particularly for users of this forum and not some kind of enthusiast hardware bencher communities. edit: but yes I do get it. If you're interested in theory and more power-hungry processors, it's better to test with more than 150W. I'd think that a 150W figure is a hold over from a prior era. To challenge the big heatsinks, you need a bigger load than Ivy Bridge. Anyway, if we were interested in theory and practice, maybe somebody would have brought up fin spacing. If you want a heatsink to do better for high fan speeds, you make the spacing smaller, like for Hyper 212 series, at the expense of lower-speed performance. P.S. since when is TY-140 a piece of junk, or even that loud compared to most stock fans? http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine i5-2500k. OC to 4.5, 1.4vcore. 100% TDP. 154w. I'm aware PSU calc inflates numbers, but I don't think it's a stretch of imagination to see an i5 on an actual, high 24/7 overclock as pushing past 170w on load, and that the frostytech benches are questionable at the very least. Why not test on a real system, instead of an artificial environment? A higher overclock, even more. TDP isn't necessarily a unit but a reference to a unit. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2012/05/01/intel-core-i5-3570k-cpu-review/7 Just on idle, an overclocked i5 is pushing 150w. Overclocked, an i5 is pushing over 250-300w easily on load Not that anyone cares, but Phenom II is pushing past 150w when overclocked as well. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2009/04/23/amd-phenom-ii-x4-955-black-edition-cpu-am3/11 On an overclock, 200w+ likely. A lot different than a test of just 150w hot plate by frostytech...For the same reason that idle and stock load temp tests are useless, frostytech's heatsink benches are absolutely useless. So there's more proof of why frostytech is crap. I mean, never mind that every single benchmark out there and anecdote says the Hyper 212 Evo is not nearly as good as a SA/NH-D14/K2/Assassin/Phanteks class heatsink. I didn't ever say the ty-140 is a piece of junk, quite the contrary. I said they were the best stock fans around. When you can't win an argument over the internet with logic, you spew bullshit to confuse them. I would seriously think of not replying to Belial or reading his posts in this thread, as they aren't very useful. They have a striking resemblance of the walls of text people concoct in the balance threads. Yea, just ignore all the evidence I've posted. I've posted tons of real anecdotes and every-other-benchmark showing the Silver Arrow >>>> Hyper 212 and how the hyper 212 is nowhere near as good as the frostytech review shows. Bring up frostytech benches on any overclock forum, and you'll be laughed at. Say the K2/Asassin or Silver Arrow is worse than a Hyper 212 Evo, and you'll be laughed at. Also, I'm probably the only person here who actually owns both a Hyper 212 and an Nh-d14 and actually benched them, so I have real-world results proving the Hyper 212 is nowhere near as good (i'll be posting them later, when the data is cleaned up more, currently doing TIM comparisons on all teh heatsinks). Jinglehell posting a bench that shows the Hyper 212 Evo outperforms the Silver Arrow, a heatsink with over twice the cooling area and heatpipe area, is an absolute joke. He posts lots of good advice, I have plenty of respect for him, and he's definitely knowledgeable when it comes to expensive as fuck components, but he's dead wrong. THe k2/assassin is one of the best heatsinks in the world, and THE best in particular tests, and arguably THE best heatsink in the world, inarguably in the top 5, and at $39 new, it's the best damn deal your going to find on a new heatsink today: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=33412 Anyone who knows anything about heatsinks would understand that, regardless of what the perceived 'true' performance on the K2/Assassin is, while at $80 it might or might not be better than another high end heatsink, at $39 it's the best deal out there on a heatsink. Better than anything, and you'd be wise to buy it for your build if you are looking for a heatsink, as a few people have said they were. I'm hardly wrong here, I've provided over a half dozen benches all showing the opposite of frostytech. Apparently, a bunch of people here at TL think that Frostytech > Anandtech, HardOCP, guru3d, and even TH. Somehow 1 site is better than any other site when it comes to benches, when most people dont even agree on what the best site is but will definitely tell you FT is a joke. | ||
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Nightops
United States66 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
A mildly overclocked current generation Intel processor most definitely does not run anywhere near 150W. At 1.25V and at 4.7ghz, we're talking 180W power draw for the entire system from the wall. Good luck hitting 4.7 with 1.25v.... Here's more of that evidence that I've been posting over and over and seems to get ignored: http://www.overclock.net/t/1051733/the-official-intel-core-i5-2500k-i5-2550k-i7-2600k-i7-2700k-owners-club/0_100 http://www.overclock.net/t/968053/official-the-sandy-stable-club-guides-voltages-temps-bios-templates-inc-spreadsheet/0_100 You'd be lucky to get that 4.7 on 1.25v, less than 25% of people get that kind of overclock, especially on that voltage. A lot of 1.4v 24/7 overclocks and plenty of 1.5s. 1.2's and even 1.3's are not too common. Quoting a single overclock on a lucky chip by anandtech that wasn't even tested properly for stability, is not reliable data on this at all. I can hit 4ghz on my Phenom c2 at stock voltage or 5ghz on an i5-2500k at 1.25vcore and pass 10 minutes of testing, they surely won't hit 24 hour or even 1 hour though. Hell I can boot at 4.2ghz/phenom c2/stock volts or i5/5ghz/1.25 easily. You can't seriously use that as data for power draw in the real world. And it'd be more realistic to talk 24/7 overclocks rather than mild overclocks. If your going for a mild overclock, then no question just get a hyper 212 and have fun with 4ghz. Otherwise, you need something better, and a Logisys assassin at $39 is a better deal than anything else. That's what I'm arguing here. That the Assassin is the best heatsink to buy new, and that Jinglehell is crazy to think a Hyper 212 Evo is better in performance (and while it has a better performance to dollar simply because higher temp drops are harder to come by, it simply won't cool an i5 at 4.7+ enough). I think your very knowledgeable and smart Myrmidon, but I think evidence shows you can easily surpass 150w on an i5 or overclock in general. If you want a shootout between all coolers combined with all your fans, go ahead and find one for this site. Otherwise, all the evidence we have available is only from reviews. And you're questioning the legitimacy of a site with no real evidence other than, "can't you see this doesn't make sense!" when everyone has already answered the claims of Frosty's not being legitimate. I've provided plenty of evidence showing that 150w is far below an actual 24/7 overclock's TDP, and that's why frostytech's benches are crap. I also provided a ton of benchmark review sites showing conflicting results with what Frostytech provided. There's also some common sense involved - there's less than a 5*C spread on the a 240mm radiator H100 vs single fan H212, can pretty clearly point out these results are pretty useless and definitely dont test the coolers at the higher power ranges, and everyone knows that idle and stock load and lower OC results are quite useless as relative cooling between heatsinks all changes when you test a higher overclock. I'm not asking for a review to test a ridiculous benchmark CPU/power, I'm just asking they at least simulate a standard 24/7 overclock. You also seem to think that everyone only uses one source. If they say something, they've verified it makes sense or at least is mostly true over multiple sources. No one here is dumb enough to look at one source and make a conclusion. The good thing about Frostys is that it has a huge list of coolers so you can easily get a grasp on where something stands. JH has made the claim that the Hyper 212 EVO is better than the K2/Assassin, sourcing the Frostytech review. He's only using a single source and clearly ignoring every other, to cherrypick data on why he thinks the Assassin is a bad deal at $39, and is not one of the best heatsinks in the world. I'm not saying he's dumb but he's making the conclusion that the Assassin is a bad cooler. Frostys is absolutely useless, and everyone who benches knows their results are totalyl useless. You aren't getting a good grasp, your getting a misinformed grasp when you think the H212 is better than a Silver Arrow, or a 5HDT cooler Spire Thermax Eclipse II is the best heatsink in the world, better than high end closed loops, dual towers with direct contact with 2 x fans, et cetera. I'm pretty sure I'm just mistaken here because you can't possibly be this wrong, but on both 150W and 85W comparisons, nothing with the words Stock or Intel come within 6 deg. C of the H100. Again, I'm probably wrong. But if I'm not...really? I mean the lower end coolers, it does show the stock as being quite low. A bit carried away. But a hyper 212, Deepcool gamerstorm, CNPS11X Extreme, TTC-NC15TZ (3 HDT!!!) as within 5*C of the best coolers, as defined by frostytech, in the world, is absurd. In Frosty's, the H100 beats the H50. Stop posting absolutes, and if you're going to say something, back it up with hard evidence. Not this weak anecdotal bull. http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-EVO-CPU-Cooler-Review/1407/6 Look, 1 deg. C difference between the Evo and the Noctua, which supposedly means 1 deg. C difference between the Silver Arrow and Noctua since they're basically the same like you've been saying, no? Immediately wrong, never mind the legitimacy of the source nor the tolerances on the coolers, just because you're being so extreme with your claims every time. Those are tests are on a stock CPU, and the differences are 50 vs 53. Those benches are fine if you are testing a stock system, but as we all know, stock results don't mean shit. No one is going to buy an aftermarket heatsink for a stock system, and heatsinks don't show differences until you get to higher temp ranges. I like Hardware secrets, but testing a heatsink on stock load doesn't mean much. An Antec Kuhler 620 is not a worse performer than the Hyper 212 evo, even though it is almost 10*C hotter on idle (as lclc's tend to be much hotter on idle than regular air), but according to the test results, on idle, it is. You can see that low clocks/ low load results dont matter, obviously, and 150w is not nearly hot enough to be a valid test result to make judgements on heatsink performance. Jinglehell defended Frostytech as a review site, which is absolutely absurd. Everyone has criticisms of every review site, so it's odd that he's defending the questionable and completely different and unique test results of a site, especially one that is universally agreed upon in overclock forums as questionable, if not complete trash, for their testing methodology and results. He says, in his post, that the K2/Assassin is NOT the best heatsink in the world, and makes it clear he doesnt think it's a top tier cooler at least, and he also commented saying the Hyper 212 Evo performs comparatively to the NH-D14. Which is absolutely absurd. I've posted much more evidence to why he's wrong than anyone else has saying that 150w hot plate tests is a reasonable testbed or the Assassin is not a top tier heatsink or the Hyper 212 EVO performs comparatively to top tier heatsinks, yet I'm the asshole. Even though I've posted plenty of material on overclocking forums and done plenty of benches, and even own a Hyper 212 and NH-D14, I'm the one who is wrong about heatsink performance, not the guy quoting an artificial benchmark that's questionable and completely opposite of every single benchmark out there on an OC load. ot one comparison between the Evo and the Assassin. Why you've been pursuing this is beyond me. Assassin is similar to a NH-D14. JH actually thinks the Evo is comparative to an NH-D14. By extension.... not to mention quoting FT which says the Evo is close in performance to the NH-d14 and better than the SA/Assassin. You can argue that the Assassin isn't the best air cooler in the world. But you can't argue that the Assassin is not a top tier contender for best heatsink in the world, and is definitely among the top 5 heatsinks in the world, and that's it's leagues above the Hyper 212 Evo. To claim that the Assassin, or NH-D14, or Silver Arrow, are in the same league as the Hyper 212 EVO, is absurd. It's common sense, I would think, to see that a 4 HDT heatsink isn't going to compare to a 2 x fan dual tower with direct contact, but hey, that's just me. And stop using this stupid phrase. Jesus. Expand your vocabulary. It's quite important to get an apples to apples test comparison to get an accurate view of the performance of a cooler, otherwise you could just buy any shit cooler and slap on 2 140mm fans and call it a day, which just isn't a good idea. Otherwise Hyper 212 EVO could outperform any cooler provided you havethe right fans on it. Hence, the best benchmarks are the ones that perform 'apples to apples' tests, as it's most commonly called by tech review sites as I've seen it (although plenty call it something different). No one ever argued the Assassin was bad for its price. No one will ever argue that the best testing would not be done on a consistent test bench with the same fans. EVERYONE IS ARGUING AGAINST YOUR USE OF ABSOLUTES WHILE NOT PROVIDING (COMPLETE) EVIDENCE. I've provided plenty of evidence that testing on a 150w hot plate is crap, plenty of reviews showing that the relative performance list that FT puts up (and hardware secrets, although they are clearly testing just stock load) is absolutely contrary to everything every other site has tested. I've also provided plenty of reviews and benches showing the Hyper 212 Evo significantly worse in performance then the SA/K2/Assassin/NH-D14/Phanteks, and that the SA/k2/Assassin/Nh-D14/Phanteks are all very similar in performance and all arguably the best cooler in the world. I've provided a benchmark showing the Assassin as the best heatsink in the world, an actual real world test on a controlled testbed, in an apples to apples test, one that even tested a Hyper 212, yet somehow it's a questionable benchmark, even though the guy is extremely experienced and runs a benching team, yet FT's controversial benches are not questionable at all. Please, tell me the logic in that one. Nothing is misinterpreted. His comment is quite clear he's saying the Hyper 212 Evo is comparable to an NH-D14 and the Assassin is not a world class cooler. It'd be fine if he said "Whoa, I disagree, I think the Phanteks/Nh-D14/Silver Arrow/Everest is the best cooler in the world by 1-2*C, not the Assassin", but he didn't, he said it was 'good, not great'. Which is flat out wrong. $39. Assassin. Best deal around for a new heatsink. You will find nothing better within $25 in performance new price (unless some sale price, but it'll still be $10-20+ for arguably 1-2*C at most). And way better than the Hyper 212 evo. way better. I have lots of respect for skyR, Myrmidon, Wom, and Jinglehell, but i have to respectfully disagree completely with their opinions that Frostytech is anything better than a questionable website, and that the Assassin is not a world class cooler, or the Hyper 212 EVO comes anywhere close in performance on a highly OC processor to an NH-D14 or similar dual tower. I've actually tested the Hyper 212 and dual tower heatsinks, as well as been a member of prominent member of OCN for a while now. I'm not saying I know better, but when it comes to heatsinks especially, I do know what I'm talking about. | ||
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