EPTCSL presents Azubu Collegiate Champions - Page 11
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shindigs
United States4795 Posts
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sambo400
United States378 Posts
When you have a decision to make, do you all agree on a set of heuristics and find the optimal solution, or does someone just throw something together on a whim and then feel guilty about it and change at the first sign of negativity? It really seems like the second one to me. Seeding a bracket to maximize diversity should be a simple task for someone with any understanding of competition.. Hell, Challonge does it for free. Also you switched to full bo7 for the playoffs this year because a small group of very large schools all pushed really hard for it, knowing full well it hugely favored them. Its like you guys have no idea what its actually like for 95% of teams to put together a decent roster during finals. I'm not really that upset about this, since my school is probably one of the few that actually recruited our asses off and found a decent amount of players. Still, We have like 15k undergrads. Imagine what the schools with 5k must go though. On December 05 2012 11:44 Homework wrote: Watch out, world. PSU will totally win this whole thing. XD would be refreshing On December 05 2012 19:26 Xeris wrote: Just re-did the bracket after taking some community suggestions. Now, same-division teams will avoid each other for a few rounds. <3 Most Community suggestions come from people with a motive. I have a strong hunch that many of the people who complained did so because they were displeased with the difficulty of their opponents. Good job. You just gave them a re-do, and as many teams as you just made happy, you also just shafted. Does BWC re-shuffle their bracket when Lucifron and Vortix play each other in the first round? What kind of competitive integrity would that be? If you opened up a poll on TL, how many people do you expect would prefer they not play each other early in the tournament? Does Dreamhack ask popular players who they would like to avoid in their side of the bracket, and then re-draw if the fans hate it? No! For a tournament with so much money on the line, it is completely unacceptable that you would announce a bracket, get heat from it by people with self-interested PARTIALITY, and then think things were ok when all you did was oil the squeaky wheels, as if they are somehow more deserving than ever school who was silently preparing for the playoffs. You did the playoffs by Region last year. What suddenly changed? These are major competitive integrity issues that could be avoided with basic foresight. I'm sorry, I really do love you guys for what you do, but the lack of consistency is so frustrating. | ||
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SniperVul5
Canada166 Posts
On December 06 2012 15:12 sambo400 wrote: Why does the CSL seem incapable of making a decision and sticking with it? You changed the qualification rules for the All star thing last year on a whim that ended up just favoring the popular players despite their inferior records, now you are changing the bracket after we already saw it. When you have a decision to make, do you all agree on a set of heuristics and find the optimal solution, or does someone just throw something together on a whim and then feel guilty about it and change at the first sign of negativity? It really seems like the second one to me. Seeding a bracket to maximize diversity should be a simple task for someone with any understanding of competition.. Hell, Challonge does it for free. Also you switched to full bo7 for the playoffs this year because a small group of very large schools all pushed really hard for it, knowing full well it hugely favored them. Its like you guys have no idea what its actually like for 95% of teams to put together a decent roster during finals is like. I'm not really that upset about this, since my school is probably one of the few that actually recruited our asses off and found a decent amount of players. Still, We have like 15k undergrads. Imagine what the schools with 5k must go though. would be refreshing Most Community suggestions come from people with a motive. I have a strong hunch that many of the people who complained did so because they were displeased with the difficulty of their opponents. Good job. You just gave them a re-do, and as many teams as you just made happy, you also just shafted. Does BWC re-shuffle their bracket when Lucifron and Vortix play each other in the first round? What kind of competitive integrity would that be? If you opened up a poll on TL, how many people do you expect would prefer they not play each other early in the tournament? For a tournament with so much money on the line, it is completely unacceptable that you would announce a bracket, get heat from it by people with self-interested PARTIALITY, and then think things were ok when all you did was oil the squeaky wheel. You did the playoffs by Region last year. What suddenly changed? These are major competitive integrity issues that could be avoided with basic foresight. I'm sorry, I really do love you guys for what you do, but the lack of consistency is so frustrating. Man this post is utterly hilarious I don't even know where to begin. One of the main reasons the CSL stood out (and will continue to stand out) for many years is the fact that they respond quickly and reasonably to community feedback. Guess we should have CSL become like KeSPA with their hybrid proleague idea despite massive protests continue with their decision regardless of how poor it may be. Of all the things that people dislike (such as the website, casting and/or administration)... this one has been the biggest joke of the century. So glad you are among the minority that bothers to nitpick pointless issues. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
Also, we didn't change anything about the All Star tournament last year... it was ALWAYS based on popularity, like all all star tournaments =D | ||
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
Shindigs, yeah, I will. I can't track them all down, but I can say that Wentworth Institute of Technology versus Worcester doesn't work. (Any of them) I'm sure there are more, but there's a place to start, maybe there's a commonality in the code of the broken page or something. On December 06 2012 14:07 shindigs wrote: Alyrk, can you email me at tim@cstarleague.com with the replays you have issues with? We've had issues most of the season but they should be fixed now. There may be a few weird issues lingering but I'll have to check it out as admin. Emailed you two examples, one with a working replay page, the other without. | ||
Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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Imagine42
United States73 Posts
*Some changes/fixes made* "How dare you change stuff now you spineless wimps!" I just don't even know sometimes, SC community  Regardless, good luck to everyone in the playoffs, should be exciting! | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On December 06 2012 15:12 sambo400 wrote: Why does the CSL seem incapable of making a decision and sticking with it? You changed the qualification rules for the All star thing last year on a whim that ended up just favoring the popular players despite their inferior records, now you are changing the bracket after we already saw it. When you have a decision to make, do you all agree on a set of heuristics and find the optimal solution, or does someone just throw something together on a whim and then feel guilty about it and change at the first sign of negativity? It really seems like the second one to me. Seeding a bracket to maximize diversity should be a simple task for someone with any understanding of competition.. Hell, Challonge does it for free. Also you switched to full bo7 for the playoffs this year because a small group of very large schools all pushed really hard for it, knowing full well it hugely favored them. Its like you guys have no idea what its actually like for 95% of teams to put together a decent roster during finals. I'm not really that upset about this, since my school is probably one of the few that actually recruited our asses off and found a decent amount of players. Still, We have like 15k undergrads. Imagine what the schools with 5k must go though. would be refreshing Most Community suggestions come from people with a motive. I have a strong hunch that many of the people who complained did so because they were displeased with the difficulty of their opponents. Good job. You just gave them a re-do, and as many teams as you just made happy, you also just shafted. Does BWC re-shuffle their bracket when Lucifron and Vortix play each other in the first round? What kind of competitive integrity would that be? If you opened up a poll on TL, how many people do you expect would prefer they not play each other early in the tournament? Does Dreamhack ask popular players who they would like to avoid in their side of the bracket, and then re-draw if the fans hate it? No! For a tournament with so much money on the line, it is completely unacceptable that you would announce a bracket, get heat from it by people with self-interested PARTIALITY, and then think things were ok when all you did was oil the squeaky wheels, as if they are somehow more deserving than ever school who was silently preparing for the playoffs. You did the playoffs by Region last year. What suddenly changed? These are major competitive integrity issues that could be avoided with basic foresight. I'm sorry, I really do love you guys for what you do, but the lack of consistency is so frustrating. Agree with this. Now if CSL didn't make so many outrageous decisions in the first place. They wouldn't change what they say so often. | ||
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:03 T.O.P. wrote: Agree with this. Now if CSL didn't make so many outrageous decisions in the first place. They wouldn't change what they say so often. The seeding was way off. Anybody can objectively say that when 3 of your first 4 potential opponents are from your old division, and your first match is vs. somebody in your division. They did a lot wrong, but that was a good change. Regardless of the motives, objectively that's what should be done. If the #1 seed and #2 seed out of group play in a group of MLG got immediately matched up against each other, or #1 and #2 in a Ro8 of GSL got matched up against each other, and the #2 complained, they'd have every right to, even if they did it simply because they considered themselves worse than #1, because the seeding was wrong. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:37 Alryk wrote: The seeding was way off. Anybody can objectively say that when 3 of your first 4 potential opponents are from your old division, and your first match is vs. somebody in your division. They did a lot wrong, but that was a good change. Regardless of the motives, objectively that's what should be done. If the #1 seed and #2 seed out of group play in a group of MLG got immediately matched up against each other, or #1 and #2 in a Ro8 of GSL got matched up against each other, and the #2 complained, they'd have every right to, even if they did it simply because they considered themselves worse than #1, because the seeding was wrong. I agree it had to be fixed. But they shouldn't fuck it up in the first place. It's like they didn't even look at the bracket before releasing it. | ||
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:42 T.O.P. wrote: I agree it had to be fixed. But they shouldn't fuck it up in the first place. It's like they didn't even look at the bracket before releasing it. Oh, well yeah. I agree with that.  Shindigs, if you could update us on the replay coding/problem asap that would be awesome. | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
When will the playoff brackets be updated? Some of the teams show a "something went wrong" when you try and look up their match. Edit: Feedback to CSL: I understand (as someone said) that you were on a tight schedule, and so you couldn't afford to push back the playoffs at all. But it's finals. In that case, cut the Ro128. PLEASE do not host playoffs during finals next semester. Just make it a 64 round playoffs, that's still plenty of teams. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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TehV747
180 Posts
Please dont call a school bm until youre 100% sure they were. | ||
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Phoenix_
United States37 Posts
On December 17 2012 16:06 JiYan wrote: we didnt even play 2v2 yet we are supposed to play tomorrow (monday) but it already says we lost. csl mistake? or bm rutgers? csl admins email says we play monday i dont know what youre trying to pull rutgers. @ucberkeley we're not done yet so dont start planning to vs rutgers. some hanky panky going on in here Hi, we advanced the bracket based on the scores on the match pages. On your match page, it shows rutgers 4-2 with the 2v2 unplayed? This is the information we were going off of. For now, the ro32 match was deleted, since I guess one of the players must have reported a set incorrectly and it should be 3-3 right now? | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
On December 17 2012 16:23 TehV747 wrote: lmao im pretty sure Rutgers got the walkover. check your email. Please dont call a school bm until youre 100% sure they were. yea i just read the email and im now 100% they were. we told rutgers a week in advance we're available anytime outside of the weekend and they refused to find time for a single match to be played. I gave them the freedom to choose any time on monday, and because of that freedom, they take walkover because I didnt specify time? yea, 100% bm. CSL not the manner community it used to be. | ||
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Origamimouse
United States18 Posts
On December 18 2012 04:09 JiYan wrote: yea i just read the email and im now 100% they were. we told rutgers a week in advance we're available anytime outside of the weekend and they refused to find time for a single match to be played. I gave them the freedom to choose any time on monday, and because of that freedom, they take walkover because I didnt specify time? yea, 100% bm. CSL not the manner community it used to be. In that match we were able to reschedule 2 separate games to two different times; Whirlwind to saturday night and Tal'Darim to sunday night, so saying that we made no effort to accommodate your final exams is incorrect. However your school is not the only one that is currently in finals week, making scheduling difficult us as well and doubly so for 2v2. Our exam schedule made it impossible to play 2v2 on Friday. After I heard of your concern I proposed what I believed to be generous offer, that we could play 2v2 at anytime on the weekend, all UCR had to do was select a time and we would have been there. However this was not good enough for UCR, and you asked csl if we could reschedule to monday, the administrators agreed provided both admins agreed to a time and messaged the administrators. However UCR never messaged us proposing times in fact no messages were received at all by us or the administrators. Because nothing was heard from UCR and no time was set we assumed that UCR had accepted the default time and that the match would be played then as per the CSL rules. However come Sunday at default time UCR claimed that the match had been postponed which it wasnt as neither team had completed the requirements set by the csl to reschedule. At that point it was impossible to accommodate them as one of our 2v2 players had arranged to travel home after the scheduled match time and we would no longer be able to play. | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
my partner and i have been online btw since noon. he signed off since your guys werent on. but i told him to be on tonight at 7pm (pst) to try and catch you guys then. | ||
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