In moving forward with striking changes, the face of collegiate eSports has taken on an entirely new and global guise. Today, the Collegiate Starleague is proud to announce that Azubu, the professional games media company, has entered the field with us as a partner and sponsor.
Today, the Collegiate Starleague and Azubu present:
Statement from Kevin Kwon, Global Esports Manager of Azubu: "Here at Azubu, we are pleased to host the biggest collegiate league ever in the history of e-sports with the CSL. This is our first step into the collegiate league and we are very excited about the event. Our aim is to create a global collegiate association, called the GeCA (Global e-Sports Collegiate Association). We will not only focus on the professional leagues, but will also care for the amateurs as well, so that Azubu can become the soil for young potential gamers to grow. Some organizations believe that gaming can only bring harm to the users, but Azubu will show the good side of gaming and what games can do to help people; to that end, Azubu and the CSL have even more exciting events in store which will be announced in the near future."
CSL Collective Statement: "We are very happy to be embarking on the next leg of our journey together with Azubu. We believe that this partnership will take us where we want to go, and allow us to support our community the way it deserves to be supported. We're looking forward to many amazing years and can't wait to begin the league and see which schools will rise to the top. "
No longer will the gladiators only be from colleges and universities in North America, but from around the world in Europe and Asia as well. Each region will follow the CSL format, but the stakes will be higher and the competition fiercer. Only the hungriest will survive and be able to call themselves global champions.
Global league with regional tournaments for North America, Europe, and Asia (KR server) in StarCraft 2 AND League of Legends
CSL format: group stage followed by top teams advancing to playoffs. NA season 5 playoff teams will be seeded to different divisions to prevent groups of death.
Teams play two matches per week during the regular season
Regular season matches will follow the Bo5 CSL format (three 1v1s, one 2v2, and one ace match) and the playoffs will follow the Bo7 CSL format (five 1v1s, one 2v2, and one ace match)
Stay tuned for more information on League of Legends’ format
Oct 2: Registration opens - all regions and all games Oct 2-25: Food for Thought: Tell us why your team should win an Azubu-sponsored pizza party! Oct 28: FFT winners announced Nov 1: Azubu Collegiate Champions, Rounds 1 and 2 begin Nov-Dec: Teams will compete in TWO Bo5 matches per week on Saturdays or Sundays Dec-Jan: Playoffs begin and teams compete in ONE Bo7 match per week on Sundays Only Feb 23: Azubu Collegiate Champions GRAND FINALS held in Seoul, South Korea
The Grand Finals of Azubu Collegiate Champions February 23rd, 2013 KINTEX in Seoul, South Korea
The finalists from StarCraft II and League of Legends will compete at the Grand Finals. Semi-finals between the top seeds (NA, NA, EU, and Asia) will be held online.
StarCraft II will be competing in a Bo5. League of Legends will be competing in a Bo3.
The stakes are higher, and our rules reflect these changes. See our full updated rules HERE.
Some of the changes include, but are not limited to:
Lineups are due earlier than in the previous season, giving teams more time to prepare for opponents. Saturday matches will be due Monday and Sunday matches due Tuesday. Note: playoffs will default to Sunday matches every week, so prepare your schedules ahead of time for the change if applicable
Every set (except ace) is to be played simultaneously, and without observers. This is in order to both speed up play time to accommodate the change to 2 games a week as well prevent ghosting. Note: both teams may agree to allow observers/casters, but in doing so they will lose their right to contest a result based on ghosting or stream cheating.
Teams are allowed 3 subs for the entire season (max 1 per match, both 2v2 players count as 1). Extra subs must be explicitly allowed by opponent and appropriately documented for proof.
Disconnected players have 5 minutes to reconnect and 3 disconnections will automatically forfeit the set
For 2v2 disconnected games, random players must re-pick the race rolled if opponent has seen their race
Registration opens October 2nd, 2012 for both games and all regions. Thanks to Azubu, there is no registration fee or split recreational-competitive division!
Instructions:
Starting October 2nd, team coordinators will create and register their team at www.cstarleague.com.
Each student will register an account on www.cstarleague.com AND www.AZUBU.com. We will verify student IDs and AZUBU IDs to ensure that all players comply.
To complete registration, each team must have a minimum of FIVE valid players, a Facebook group, and AZUBU accounts for each player. Note that the season will require 5 players, but the playoffs will require 7 players.
All students currently enrolled in a North American, European, or Asian/SEA undergraduate or graduate program are eligible for the Azubu Collegiate Champions. Teams must have a minimum of five verified players before entering the league. Players are cleared for participation by supplying an official school email address.
Players can be considered for eligibility for other university teams under special circumstances on a case-by-case basis. Exceptions are only made for players from unusually small schools (total student population <5000) that have a strong affiliation with the larger university, such as a community college with a direct feeder program to a nearby 4-year university.
AND HERE'S SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT...
Want to have an Azubu-sponsored pizza party for your team on campus? Give us some food for thought and make a brief video with your team saying why you should be chosen! We'll be giving away $150 to 10 teams ($1,500 in total!) to have a blast at the end of the contest. The contest will run from October 2nd through October 25th! You must be a registered team to be eligible to compete. Contest winners will be announced October 28th, and the fun commences the week after. (Winning teams must send us pictures of their event so that we can post it on the Azubu and CSL facebook). Stay tuned for official contest rules and instructions coming next week!
So how will all of this affect you? Only in the most positive way. As a player, it means you won't have to pay registration fees thanks to Azubu. As a viewer, you will be treated to more action each week, with a consistent schedule of matches in all the regions. Coverage on the website will reflect on the in and outs of the league, giving you a closer look at this extraordinary and groundbreaking season. Any way you look at it, the changes the CSL are undergoing for 2012-2013 will benefit all involved, from competitor to fan.
The season will be shorter, running from November to February, but each matchup in a region will be more meaningful. Think of the weight an individual game of football has in a shorter season as compared to an individual game of baseball over a longer one. There will be more matches per week, but each one will be a fight for survival with the best and brightest.
Want updates? New teams can sign up and be informed of registration’s opening date by emailing admin@cstarleague.com titled “ACC MAILING LIST”. Teams who have played in the CSL before will automatically be sent a reminder email for registration!
So from here on out... Take the time now to find your future team. Like Azubu and www.facebook.com/collegiatestarleague, follow us @CStarleague, and email admin@cstarleague.com: “ACC Mailing List” to keep up-to-date if you’re a brand new school. We'll send out a courtesy reminder for registration - but with something this big, we have a feeling that on October 2nd, you’ll remember.
The Collegiate Starleague and Azubu have issued the call. Come October 2nd, registration opens for Azubu Collegiate Champions, the greatest global intercollegiate gaming league. Join North America, Asia, and Europe in a battle of collegiate champions. StarCraft II. League of Legends. Choose your battles.
Azubu is an international games-media company whose aim is to create a global gaming network at both the professional and amateur level. Azubu is the title sponsor of OGN LoL, as well as the personal sponsor of Starcraft 2 player viOLet.
Check AZUBU out at: Here Follow @AzubuMedia on Twitter: Here Like AZUBU on Facebook: Here
About the Collegiate Starleague:
The Collegiate Starleague is the premiere collegiate gaming league, with over 318 universities participating in its fifth season. The Azubu Collegiate Champions is sponsored by Azubu! In addition to the league, we run contests, tournaments, and work with universities to host and promote LAN events across North America. Check out www.cstarleague.com for more info!
Check us out on Liquipedia: Here Follow @Cstarleague on Twitter: Here Like CSL on Facebook: Here
Artwork by Cray Designs Article by JadedShock, PBenson, and hazelynut Made possible by the Collegiate Starleague, Azubu, and viewers like you
I know the Waterloo community was looking forward to having fun in the 2nd Division, is nothing like that being done? Is there going to be an opportunity for lower level players to compete vs other schools or no.
No streaming games live ): Ah well. Going to have to stream replays.
Why do playoff games have to be ONLY on Sundays? A bunch of the Korean kids on our team go to church every Sunday.....
This is my only gripe as even when there was more flexibility teams would sometimes refuse to reschedule because they knew we'd be down key players on Sundays -.-;;
On September 26 2012 04:34 SupLilSon wrote: Why do playoff games have to be ONLY on Sundays? A bunch of the Korean kids on our team go to church every Sunday.....
You can reschedule with the opponent as usual, but there is a need to have one default playing day or else half the teams in the bracket will be saturday default and half will be sunday default, which would make things... not work out well
wow. holy shit prize pool. ^_^ this is super awesome. double awesome because i'll be returning to school. time to coach my school to some prize $$$$$ and also looking forward to dota2 being added.
This is crazy. Would be nice to see the prize pool a little more even (20,000 first place?) because we're all college kids and the more wealth spread around the better, but nonetheless, this is amazing!
On September 26 2012 05:01 Alryk wrote: This is crazy. Would be nice to see the prize pool a little more even (20,000 first place?) because we're all college kids and the more wealth spread around the better, but nonetheless, this is amazing!
Big numbers attract sponsors and viewers.
And keep in mind each team has 6-10 people on their main competitive roster.
On September 26 2012 05:01 Alryk wrote: This is crazy. Would be nice to see the prize pool a little more even (20,000 first place?) because we're all college kids and the more wealth spread around the better, but nonetheless, this is amazing!
Big numbers attract sponsors and viewers.
And keep in mind each team has 6-10 people on their main competitive roster.
That's why you promote the 182k prize pool, and not numbers. But that 6-10 thing goes both ways, you'd be splitting 500$ 6-10 ways, which isn't really much. Better imo:
If I did my math right, it comes out to about the same. And still, 20k would be at least 2k per person for first place, and that's assuming ten players. It's still definitely a large amount, and twice as many people are benefiting in this scenario. We're (hopefully) all college kids, I think more people should be benefiting than less, although obviously I don't decide this, and I do agree that a bigger first prize can certainly grab more viewers. But still, it's a very high end prize pool for an organization of college kids But I can definitely see why they'd do it.
On September 26 2012 05:01 Alryk wrote: This is crazy. Would be nice to see the prize pool a little more even (20,000 first place?) because we're all college kids and the more wealth spread around the better, but nonetheless, this is amazing!
Big numbers attract sponsors and viewers.
And keep in mind each team has 6-10 people on their main competitive roster.
That's why you promote the 182k prize pool, and not numbers. But that 6-10 thing goes both ways, you'd be splitting 500$ 6-10 ways, which isn't really much. Better imo:
If I did my math right, it comes out to about the same. And still, 20k would be at least 2k per person for first place, and that's assuming ten players. It's still definitely a large amount, and twice as many people are benefiting in this scenario. We're (hopefully) all college kids, I think more people should be benefiting than less, although obviously I don't decide this, and I do agree that a bigger first prize can certainly grab more viewers. But still, it's a very high end prize pool for an organization of college kids But I can definitely see why they'd do it.
The first quote was sarcasm.. I know berkeley won, and Suppy only had two win two matches to do so. Korean universities are nothing to be feared. Respected, as much as we respect our North American colleagues, but they are not GSTL contenders we're talking about.
As far as the second part, I think the big first prize is the big number to look at. You want to hype the finals with, 'competing for 40,000' which is essentially a GSL Code S first place finish. Big numbers big numbers big numbers.
On September 26 2012 04:57 MrMedic wrote: Koreans will destroy this.
yeah just like they destroyed berkeley right?
Berkely won iirc. Suppy beat polt.
On September 26 2012 05:06 Artifex Magnus wrote:
On September 26 2012 05:01 Alryk wrote: This is crazy. Would be nice to see the prize pool a little more even (20,000 first place?) because we're all college kids and the more wealth spread around the better, but nonetheless, this is amazing!
Big numbers attract sponsors and viewers.
And keep in mind each team has 6-10 people on their main competitive roster.
That's why you promote the 182k prize pool, and not numbers. But that 6-10 thing goes both ways, you'd be splitting 500$ 6-10 ways, which isn't really much. Better imo:
If I did my math right, it comes out to about the same. And still, 20k would be at least 2k per person for first place, and that's assuming ten players. It's still definitely a large amount, and twice as many people are benefiting in this scenario. We're (hopefully) all college kids, I think more people should be benefiting than less, although obviously I don't decide this, and I do agree that a bigger first prize can certainly grab more viewers. But still, it's a very high end prize pool for an organization of college kids But I can definitely see why they'd do it.
The first quote was sarcasm.. I know berkeley won, and Suppy only had two win two matches to do so. Korean universities are nothing to be feared. Respected, as much as we respect our North American colleagues, but they are not GSTL contenders we're talking about.
As far as the second part, I think the big first prize is the big number to look at. You want to hype the finals with, 'competing for 40,000' which is essentially a GSL Code S first place finish. Big numbers big numbers big numbers.
Oh haha my bad. I completely missed your sarcasm xD.
Yeah. From a marketing standpoint I completely understand why they have the prize pool set up how they do. It's just disappointing from a poor college kid point of view. Although there are still scholarships
Yeah the Korean universities aren't necessarily ahead. The interesting thing is all the best Korean players actually quit school. I'm more worried about the universities with European players who aren't out yet (thank god Stephano is full time right now haha)
How are the 5-16 places being found? If the top eu Asia and two na teams go to the live finals, where do the other places get found? It would be confusing (although not impossible, but a scheduling nightmare) to seed all the eu Asia and na teams into playoffs but only take the top from each. In which case, does EACH region get a 5-8 prize pool? While the 1-4 is shared? In that case, the prize pool makes more sense.
And I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing csl about the prizes, what they've done is absolutely insane and huge for growing a huge college scene.
On September 26 2012 04:57 MrMedic wrote: Koreans will destroy this.
yeah just like they destroyed berkeley right?
Berkely won iirc. Suppy beat polt.
On September 26 2012 05:06 Artifex Magnus wrote:
On September 26 2012 05:01 Alryk wrote: This is crazy. Would be nice to see the prize pool a little more even (20,000 first place?) because we're all college kids and the more wealth spread around the better, but nonetheless, this is amazing!
Big numbers attract sponsors and viewers.
And keep in mind each team has 6-10 people on their main competitive roster.
That's why you promote the 182k prize pool, and not numbers. But that 6-10 thing goes both ways, you'd be splitting 500$ 6-10 ways, which isn't really much. Better imo:
If I did my math right, it comes out to about the same. And still, 20k would be at least 2k per person for first place, and that's assuming ten players. It's still definitely a large amount, and twice as many people are benefiting in this scenario. We're (hopefully) all college kids, I think more people should be benefiting than less, although obviously I don't decide this, and I do agree that a bigger first prize can certainly grab more viewers. But still, it's a very high end prize pool for an organization of college kids But I can definitely see why they'd do it.
The first quote was sarcasm.. I know berkeley won, and Suppy only had two win two matches to do so. Korean universities are nothing to be feared. Respected, as much as we respect our North American colleagues, but they are not GSTL contenders we're talking about.
As far as the second part, I think the big first prize is the big number to look at. You want to hype the finals with, 'competing for 40,000' which is essentially a GSL Code S first place finish. Big numbers big numbers big numbers.
Oh haha my bad. I completely missed your sarcasm xD.
Yeah. From a marketing standpoint I completely understand why they have the prize pool set up how they do. It's just disappointing from a poor college kid point of view. Although there are still scholarships
Yeah the Korean universities aren't necessarily ahead. The interesting thing is all the best Korean players actually quit school. I'm more worried about the universities with European players who aren't out yet (thank god Stephano is full time right now haha)
How are the 5-16 places being found? If the top eu Asia and two na teams go to the live finals, where do the other places get found? It would be confusing (although not impossible, but a scheduling nightmare) to seed all the eu Asia and na teams into playoffs but only take the top from each. In which case, does EACH region get a 5-8 prize pool? While the 1-4 is shared? In that case, the prize pool makes more sense.
And I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing csl about the prizes, what they've done is absolutely insane and huge for growing a huge college scene.
As far as places 5-16, I'd imagine they'll hold those playoffs online.
On September 26 2012 04:57 MrMedic wrote: Koreans will destroy this.
yeah just like they destroyed berkeley right?
Berkely won iirc. Suppy beat polt.
On September 26 2012 05:06 Artifex Magnus wrote:
On September 26 2012 05:01 Alryk wrote: This is crazy. Would be nice to see the prize pool a little more even (20,000 first place?) because we're all college kids and the more wealth spread around the better, but nonetheless, this is amazing!
Big numbers attract sponsors and viewers.
And keep in mind each team has 6-10 people on their main competitive roster.
That's why you promote the 182k prize pool, and not numbers. But that 6-10 thing goes both ways, you'd be splitting 500$ 6-10 ways, which isn't really much. Better imo:
If I did my math right, it comes out to about the same. And still, 20k would be at least 2k per person for first place, and that's assuming ten players. It's still definitely a large amount, and twice as many people are benefiting in this scenario. We're (hopefully) all college kids, I think more people should be benefiting than less, although obviously I don't decide this, and I do agree that a bigger first prize can certainly grab more viewers. But still, it's a very high end prize pool for an organization of college kids But I can definitely see why they'd do it.
The first quote was sarcasm.. I know berkeley won, and Suppy only had two win two matches to do so. Korean universities are nothing to be feared. Respected, as much as we respect our North American colleagues, but they are not GSTL contenders we're talking about.
As far as the second part, I think the big first prize is the big number to look at. You want to hype the finals with, 'competing for 40,000' which is essentially a GSL Code S first place finish. Big numbers big numbers big numbers.
Oh haha my bad. I completely missed your sarcasm xD.
Yeah. From a marketing standpoint I completely understand why they have the prize pool set up how they do. It's just disappointing from a poor college kid point of view. Although there are still scholarships
Yeah the Korean universities aren't necessarily ahead. The interesting thing is all the best Korean players actually quit school. I'm more worried about the universities with European players who aren't out yet (thank god Stephano is full time right now haha)
How are the 5-16 places being found? If the top eu Asia and two na teams go to the live finals, where do the other places get found? It would be confusing (although not impossible, but a scheduling nightmare) to seed all the eu Asia and na teams into playoffs but only take the top from each. In which case, does EACH region get a 5-8 prize pool? While the 1-4 is shared? In that case, the prize pool makes more sense.
And I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing csl about the prizes, what they've done is absolutely insane and huge for growing a huge college scene.
Group stage --> single elim bracket playoffs.
5-16 teams are:
2nd - 4th from EU 2nd - 4th from Asia 3rd - 8th from NA
Well yeah, but I mean: is there three different sets of playoffs, one for each region? Otherwise, imagine that all of the European teams get knocked out in the ro32. Now the playoffs continue, but you have to hold separate tournaments to find out which of those (say eight) teams is the European "champion"
Same could go for America or Asia, although America would obviously be top two. But that's why I think different playoffs for each region make more sense, which would also bring the prize pool up to 100k plus or so. I 99k if you have three sets of "5-16" players and more if there are regional prizes for 3 + 4 place.
On September 26 2012 04:57 MrMedic wrote: Koreans will destroy this.
yeah just like they destroyed berkeley right?
Berkely won iirc. Suppy beat polt.
On September 26 2012 05:06 Artifex Magnus wrote:
On September 26 2012 05:01 Alryk wrote: This is crazy. Would be nice to see the prize pool a little more even (20,000 first place?) because we're all college kids and the more wealth spread around the better, but nonetheless, this is amazing!
Big numbers attract sponsors and viewers.
And keep in mind each team has 6-10 people on their main competitive roster.
That's why you promote the 182k prize pool, and not numbers. But that 6-10 thing goes both ways, you'd be splitting 500$ 6-10 ways, which isn't really much. Better imo:
If I did my math right, it comes out to about the same. And still, 20k would be at least 2k per person for first place, and that's assuming ten players. It's still definitely a large amount, and twice as many people are benefiting in this scenario. We're (hopefully) all college kids, I think more people should be benefiting than less, although obviously I don't decide this, and I do agree that a bigger first prize can certainly grab more viewers. But still, it's a very high end prize pool for an organization of college kids But I can definitely see why they'd do it.
The first quote was sarcasm.. I know berkeley won, and Suppy only had two win two matches to do so. Korean universities are nothing to be feared. Respected, as much as we respect our North American colleagues, but they are not GSTL contenders we're talking about.
As far as the second part, I think the big first prize is the big number to look at. You want to hype the finals with, 'competing for 40,000' which is essentially a GSL Code S first place finish. Big numbers big numbers big numbers.
Oh haha my bad. I completely missed your sarcasm xD.
Yeah. From a marketing standpoint I completely understand why they have the prize pool set up how they do. It's just disappointing from a poor college kid point of view. Although there are still scholarships
Yeah the Korean universities aren't necessarily ahead. The interesting thing is all the best Korean players actually quit school. I'm more worried about the universities with European players who aren't out yet (thank god Stephano is full time right now haha)
How are the 5-16 places being found? If the top eu Asia and two na teams go to the live finals, where do the other places get found? It would be confusing (although not impossible, but a scheduling nightmare) to seed all the eu Asia and na teams into playoffs but only take the top from each. In which case, does EACH region get a 5-8 prize pool? While the 1-4 is shared? In that case, the prize pool makes more sense.
And I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing csl about the prizes, what they've done is absolutely insane and huge for growing a huge college scene.
Group stage --> single elim bracket playoffs.
5-16 teams are:
2nd - 4th from EU 2nd - 4th from Asia 3rd - 8th from NA
Does this mean that 5-8 will be like 2nd from EU and Asia, and 3/4 from NA?
Is it a single bracket for all regions? If so, what happens if, for example, the 4 teams from Europe are all eliminated in the Ro16? I know it's unlikely, but in that case, will there be like a 4 team group stage to determine which of them are the top 2? (Or in the case of the champion not being in the playoffs, the top 3 teams or something). I hope this makes sense
Edit: From rereading, it seems like y'all are implying 3 separate playoff brackets? Which seems like it would make sense.
Prize pool as listed comes out to 81k I think, does that mean the other 101k is going to LoL and scholarships? (If so, that's cool!)
Not sure how many Korean pros go to University, but quite a few North American pros are students. Judging by the exhibition matches, this will not be a walk over for the koreans. Can't wait to see how this plays how, and definitely can't wait to see how much this can grow. Calling it now: NCAA level :D
On September 26 2012 05:57 Frins wrote: and south america...
Please email admin@cstarleague.com ASAP. I will gladly step in and help if there are any translation issues between Spanish speaking Universities and the CSL. However, it is ideal that your team communicates with the CSL in English.
Good anticipation on cheating and tightening up on the possible methods of executing it. My main concern now is the 2v2 map pool. With that much prize money, 2v2 might become a giant imbalanced cheesefest. Hopefully the map pool selection doesn't include some of the notoriously bad maps. Overall I'm pretty pumped though!
On September 26 2012 04:18 laLAlA[uC] wrote: Holy. A few concerns.
I know the Waterloo community was looking forward to having fun in the 2nd Division, is nothing like that being done? Is there going to be an opportunity for lower level players to compete vs other schools or no.
No streaming games live ): Ah well. Going to have to stream replays.
Overall. This is effin crazy @__@ See you in Cali
We are going to be organizing lots of community events that will be geared towards non-competitive gaming.
On September 26 2012 06:04 Capulet wrote: Not sure how many Korean pros go to University, but quite a few North American pros are students. Judging by the exhibition matches, this will not be a walk over for the koreans. Can't wait to see how this plays how, and definitely can't wait to see how much this can grow. Calling it now: NCAA level :D
Seeking clarification as the Rules weren't tremendously explicit - I have 5 players who all attend different universities in Australia and New Zealand. Are we eligible to participate? Or do they all need to be attending the same university?
On September 26 2012 13:30 Dox wrote: Seeking clarification as the Rules weren't tremendously explicit - I have 5 players who all attend different universities in Australia and New Zealand. Are we eligible to participate? Or do they all need to be attending the same university?
Teams are generally made up of only players from that school, however there are exceptions as stated under the eligibility section, and only under certain circumstances.
On September 26 2012 13:30 Dox wrote: Seeking clarification as the Rules weren't tremendously explicit - I have 5 players who all attend different universities in Australia and New Zealand. Are we eligible to participate? Or do they all need to be attending the same university?
Teams are generally made up of only players from that school, however there are exceptions as stated under the eligibility section, and only under certain circumstances.
Yeah I checked out the eligibility section and it wasn't specifically clear on this circumstance. Just looking for a straight up "yes" or "no", hehe.
Yes it is possible, but only under certain circumstances. Could you let us know which part is confusing so we can edit it; that way no one else who reads would get confused?
Players can be considered for eligibility for other university teams under special circumstances on a case-by-case basis. Exceptions are only made for players from unusually small schools (total student population <5000) that have a strong affiliation with the larger university, such as a community college with a direct feeder program to a nearby 4-year university.
It probably doesn't need to be edited, just a comprehension error on my part. :D
I'm pretty sure we're ineligible, as we have two guys attending different universities in Sydney, one in Canberra, one in Melbourne and one in Auckland, all of which exceed the 5000 student population. Just wanted to ensure it's a definite "no" in-case I misinterpreted something.
I believe the guys from USYD are also getting a team organised, so watch the wall for their post aswell if you are a USYD student interested in participating.
On September 26 2012 19:27 Zetter wrote: Hopefully somehow Frankfurt can form a team, even though I don't know any Starcraft player there.
We're aware that there will be a lot of European college students that will be looking to form teams for this event and we will be publishing details shortly to help you. In the meantime try getting in contact with any computer and video game societies and try and talk to the student union about promotion on campus!
Maybe it should be mandatory that all participating players (at least in the RO16) are not failing their program. I think this is done for major varsity sports like football and it would almost completely negate the possibility of a bunch pro gamers (specifically coL as so many people are suggesting haha) enrolling as full-time students, never going to school or studying, and raking in $40k.
On September 26 2012 20:56 Laffs wrote: Maybe it should be mandatory that all participating players (at least in the RO16) are not failing their program. I think this is done for major varsity sports like football and it would almost completely negate the possibility of a bunch pro gamers (specifically coL as so many people are suggesting haha) enrolling as full-time students, never going to school or studying, and raking in $40k.
Doesn't matter western would still roll complexity academy.
On September 26 2012 20:56 Laffs wrote: Maybe it should be mandatory that all participating players (at least in the RO16) are not failing their program. I think this is done for major varsity sports like football and it would almost completely negate the possibility of a bunch pro gamers (specifically coL as so many people are suggesting haha) enrolling as full-time students, never going to school or studying, and raking in $40k.
Doesn't matter western would still roll complexity academy.
Well I don't think anyone is worried about Western, I just feel bad for little ol' Waterloo!
On September 26 2012 20:56 Laffs wrote: Maybe it should be mandatory that all participating players (at least in the RO16) are not failing their program. I think this is done for major varsity sports like football and it would almost completely negate the possibility of a bunch pro gamers (specifically coL as so many people are suggesting haha) enrolling as full-time students, never going to school or studying, and raking in $40k.
That is an interesting point, but very hard to monitor and verify.
Edit: CSL should promote a good balance of studying and gaming though!
On September 26 2012 20:56 Laffs wrote: Maybe it should be mandatory that all participating players (at least in the RO16) are not failing their program. I think this is done for major varsity sports like football and it would almost completely negate the possibility of a bunch pro gamers (specifically coL as so many people are suggesting haha) enrolling as full-time students, never going to school or studying, and raking in $40k.
I'd be down for that as long as CSL players get the same academic treatment as varsity players... ie. Free textbooks paid and delivered, free tutors who do your homework, free cheat sheets prior to exams, free copies of past exams... there's more too lol.
On September 26 2012 20:56 Laffs wrote: Maybe it should be mandatory that all participating players (at least in the RO16) are not failing their program. I think this is done for major varsity sports like football and it would almost completely negate the possibility of a bunch pro gamers (specifically coL as so many people are suggesting haha) enrolling as full-time students, never going to school or studying, and raking in $40k.
I'd be down for that as long as CSL players get the same academic treatment as varsity players... ie. Free textbooks paid and delivered, free tutors who do your homework, free cheat sheets prior to exams, free copies of past exams... there's more too lol.
Not all varsity teams get that.. only football and hockey here. and they definitely do not get "cheat sheets" unless they allow them for all students in that course.
Unless someone can think of another way to objectively decide who is a student and who just signed up for bullshit classes with no intention of going or studying just so they can win a slice of the $91,000 then alright, but I certainly cant.
hey. this upcoming CSL looks like it's going to be a blast!
I have some questions regarding the eligibility though.
The university students in my clan (team Eve) are hoping to take part in this league together. however, we come from different universities in Singapore. (Singapore only has 4 state universities). The scene down here is not that huge and it's difficult to find sufficient players from the same university. We're hoping for some leeway for us to take part in this league together
there're only 3-4 main sc2 clans in singapore currently, and most of the good university players are in this clan. havent took part in csl before so i'm not sure if there's any skill requirement. most of us are gm on sea server and masters on na server. yep.
hope to take part in this. do pm me if need to! thanks
On September 28 2012 16:25 carrott wrote: hey. this upcoming CSL looks like it's going to be a blast!
I have some questions regarding the eligibility though.
The university students in my clan (team Eve) are hoping to take part in this league together. however, we come from different universities in Singapore. (Singapore only has 4 state universities). The scene down here is not that huge and it's difficult to find sufficient players from the same university. We're hoping for some leeway for us to take part in this league together
there're only 3-4 main sc2 clans in singapore currently, and most of the good university players are in this clan. havent took part in csl before so i'm not sure if there's any skill requirement. most of us are gm on sea server and masters on na server. yep.
hope to take part in this. do pm me if need to! thanks
There is no skill requirement, we have players who are extremely competitive as well as extremely casual. In regards to your team, generally teams are only made up of players from the same school except under certain circumstances, as listed under the eligibility section of the post.
I was going to post this on the incredibly flame filled thread about the registration delays, but it appears they've rolled out the new site. So I'll post it here...
These comments drive at a fundamental question about the CSL: what is it? The varying responses indicate clearly different perceptions of what the league is, who its members are, and what its goals should be.
Some (based on comments I'd guess Benji, reslived, Yossarian, and Bayani?) seem to be focused on the collegiate, community aspect. For them the CSL is an organization that provides structure for their school's clubs. The league is a vehicle for them to compete in, and the most important thing is that it functions smoothly and efficiently from a club's point of view. Can we register on time? Is the schedule accommodating? Does my group enjoy it? Their goal is to create the best experience for students interested in Starcraft at their school.
The other group (I'd guess Invagination, Mona, AlphaFerg, and Laffs) seem to care about CSL as a league. They like prize pools, casters, big finals, TL and reddit coverage. For them these changes are fantastic - big sponsors, a huge prize pool, and more centralized casting will definitely make CSL more like GSL. They're focused on creating the best team league they can.
The original season 6 announcement straddled this line. Division 1 was what the League group was really interested in - better players, more professional, more focused. Division 2 was more a community thing, and enjoyed support from the community minded folks, especially at very large and very small schools that either couldn't field a D1 team, or could field both D1 and D2 teams.
The Azubu sponsorship changes all this. The community aspect has suffered significantly. The promise of supporting teams (financially, I assume?) is great, and that's a real opportunity the Azubu sponsorship provides (anyone who needed financing to go to the LANs last year would agree). However the prize pool, delays, changes, and issues.
Those of us in the CSL community who are complaining care enough to be here. It's not that we don't appreciate the hard work the entire admin team is doing. It's that we seem to disagree with them about the implicit vision for CSL. Unfortunately the goals are implicit. CSL admins haven't stated what they would like it to be, and it's diverse membership hasn't been asked (or provided a unified voice).
Perhaps this does suggest CSL is not the right league for all teams (shit, did I just say a troll was right and we SHOULD leave?). Regardless, it suggests that there is a clear and deep divide in vision and that we should attempt to reconcile it or expect more loud disagreement.
Bringing back a Division 2 is something I'd like to reconsider once the dust settles down from registration (I can't speak for others on the admin team). Also finalizing a plan for upcoming Regional LANs. I feel that these two elements would greatly assist CSL growth but at the moment everyone's hands are juggling the big event coming up.,
I actually think that a Div 1 and Div 2 system should exist in the future, which registration fees for Division 1 no matter what sponsorships exist. With registration fee comes commitment from teams, an incentive to fund raise, reasons to grab sponsorships, and more opportunity to put money into supporting teams across the country. Unsure if it will come back in the future, but it's something I'd like to see. Things had to be changed for the event so we can get things started smoothly leading up to the finals.
A lot of people just play in CSL because it provides the structure and reason to have schools compete against one another in SC2. Some people care about prize pools, some people don't, but its important to accommodate both and get as many people playing as possible. However, an issue we were seeing with Div 1 and Div 2 was where to place mid tier teams who wanted to play in Div 1 for the experience but still considered themselves "recreational". I think we'll learn a lot about how to manage a variety of college SC2 teams in the league when we play through this season and the event.
As Shindigs stated, the "Division 2" idea is something we plan on revisiting. It's a complicated subject. It is something that we at the CSL have been straddling with ever since the beginning. We put out feedback after each season asking the question: "would you like two separate leagues." Every season the answer was mostly "no." This season, the feedback was mixed, so we initially announced the creation of a Division 2.
While we did move away from that for now, it is something that we will implement in the future. However, for our short-term goals, we felt it necessary to have one large, unified league. This is important to us for a variety of reasons: one of which being the scale at which we are operating is increasing drastically. Before we attempt to revamp the format entirely and really open the league up to an even broader audience of casual gamers who are likely not participating in the league due to skill perceptions, we want to make sure that we are able to put out the best possible product we can with the staff we have available. This season is going to test us and push us all to our administrative/organizational limits. We felt that the introduction of a "Division 2" at this time would cause more of a strain on our staff because it represents such a big change.
However, as I said before, this idea is something that will happen. We want to give every college gamer what they want, and have the CSL be a place where anyone can compete as much or as little as they choose. Over the next 6-7 months we will be rolling out significant changes to our website that will reflect this, and we are confident everyone will enjoy them quite a bit.
As you all may have noticed, we are in the process of a complete re-design, which is another reason implementing such a drastic format change now is not possible.
So again, I really do understand and appreciate your concerns! All of us at the CSL staff are very aware of the desire of our more casual audience and rest assured, we'll be adding more to accommodate you all in the near future.
So, what's going on? The site no longer displays the list of registered teams; and I'm not set as coordinator so I can't add anyone. CSL registration effectively hasn't begun yet. I'm ok with problems arising delaying things further, but I'd like to at least know an ETA to effective registration starting.
Hmm as I wrote this some teams popped up on the list again, albeit many fewer than were up before. Do we need to reregister the teams?
In the process of manually verifying teams. If you already registered your team and its not displayed, please wait until tomorrow ish to see if displayed. We hid the team display until we can verify and do some more backend stuff to the website.
Is there any way to see the player roster that we've added to our teams? Just want to make sure that everyone got added properly (or do we have to wait until CSL verifies their azubu accounts too or something? Also, how does the FB group factor in?)
This new website is horrible. Registered like 2-3 weeks ago and my name randomly will appear and disappear from the player list. No idea if I'm good to go for the season or not...
I completely agree with everything the clm100 said in his post above, and apologize for the way my previous concerns were voiced on the CSL website, which contributed to a massive flamefest. I am extremely disappointed with many of the decisions that the CSL has made this season. I think it is great that there is a big name sponsor and there will be a live event---it sounds like a ton of fun and I can't wait to watch it; but, so many features that made the CSL such a great league were sacrificed to make this happen. This season's format does not make very much sense in the context of a college league. I only say this because of how much I have enjoyed participating in the CSL, and want the league to continue to improve in coming years. I believe that with this format there will be a dramatic decrease in participation from schools in the future. It is completely untenable and is antithetical to (what I thought) was the spirit of the league.
I wanted to bring to your attention some of the concerns that I and many of my teammates who participate in this league, have with the current format.
1) The timeline is not appropriate for a college league. For anyone that has not looked at the season schedule yet, the regular season will be only four weeks long. In most divisions this will mean a total of 6 matches in the regular season. The season itself (including the grand finals) will end in February, after a month long break between the semi-finals. The most enjoyable part of this league was that it stretched throughout the entire school year. We played matches that everyone got excited about, and were an extremely enjoyable distraction from schoolwork.
This season will not offer that investment from everyone in our community in Starcraft throughout the entire year. During the CSL season, interest in Starcraft goes way up, and our participation in Starcraft based campus events is much higher than usual. With this format, we will have a very short burst of excitement, which will die off quickly. We are looking for other ways to keep this excitement up through other leagues and clan wars, but it is a shame that the CSL, which filled this role all of last year, will fall short.
The best part about the previous format was that it ran at a relaxed schedule. People could put the time into practicing as their schedules permitted with school. Having two matches per week makes this a lot more difficult than it had been previously. It will be very demanding to practice for two matches, put in 3 hours of continuous play over the weekend, and maintain schoolwork.
2) Matches scheduled through winter break. This was such a bad idea---I can't even begin to understand why this was deemed acceptable. The vast majority of college students will travel over winter break, and many will travel out of the country to places without easy access to internet. Two of our best players will be travelling outside of the United States over the break and will be unable to play at all. Irrespective of that, you now force players to choose between spending time with their families and friends and practicing/playing in the playoffs. This is a terrible burden to place on people who have very limited time home, and will make many of them lose interest in the competition altogether. Nobody should have to choose between these two things.
3) The division system does not allow for competition between a variety of schools. As a consequence of only playing six regular season matches, there will not be any inter-division competition. I really enjoyed meeting and testing the mettle of other teams from other parts of the country during the second half of the season. Now, we will only get exposure to a very small number of schools and will not interact with the vast majority of other schools that compete in the CSL.
4) The complete overhaul of the website weeks before the season started. There have been so many problems with this website that have already been mentioned and are not worth repeating. I do not understand why, if a site redesign was necessary for coding reasons, this couldn't have happened months in advance of the season starting. The likelihood that everything will be functional and on the level of the previous site look very bleak now. If it was too much to manage to get a new site up and running and put the new league together, then why try to do both?
5) The misinformation that was given out just days before the season started. From the perspective of a community organizer and someone who was trying to increase interest in Starcraft, this misinformation made our lives a lot harder than they needed to be. We specifically tried to recruit players of lower skill levels and get them engaged, only to be shut down hard at the last minute. Xeris, you said that he hopes that this will be featured in upcoming seasons, which is great, but the part that I don't think you understand is that it was extremely frustrating that you laid out the season format months in advance, only to completely renege on all of those decisions literally at the last minute. At some point you just have to make a decision and stick with it instead of leading everyone around by the nose because it adversely affects the people that you have participating in your league. It is extremely bad practice to continue to put out incorrect information.
I guess I want to know what other schools think. I can say when I read the changes I was immediately disappointed and was very surprised by the reaction from everyone else in the community. Obviously there were some trade-offs, and some of the new additions are very exciting. But, the additions came at the expense of the core elements of the league. Is everyone happy with the fact that the entire season will only be 6 matches, and that the vast majority of schools will only be able to participate for the month of November? I would want to know if these changes were 100% intentional, or a consequence of putting this deal together with Azubu at the last minute. It seems pretty objectively bad from the perspective of having an enjoyable league, which allows for participation from schools of all different skill levels.
Participating in this league forged some tremendous friendships at our school, and we have all been very excited to participate. Honestly, I thought that last year's league format was nearly perfect, and the changes that were announced back in August (2 division system, 2 seasons per year) would have made the league even better. I can't really understand the logic behind many of the recent changes, and I know it is too late to change anything now. I am hoping by writing this that the CSL will reconsider all of the changes that they made this year, and return to the original format in the future. I also, maybe naively, hope that there will be some effort put into arranging some sort of league for after February, when the league finishes. What is the possibility of some sort of season 6.5 or Spring/Summer season happening to supplement the extremely truncated season 6?
Thank you to Hazleynut, Xeris, and all of the folks at the Collegiate Starleague. I don't write this because I want to add unneeded negativity to the community, but because I think this league can be a lot better.
On October 30 2012 05:19 Qurmish wrote: I completely agree with everything the clm100 said in his post above, and apologize for the way my previous concerns were voiced on the CSL website, which contributed to a massive flamefest. I am extremely disappointed with many of the decisions that the CSL has made this season. I think it is great that there is a big name sponsor and there will be a live event---it sounds like a ton of fun and I can't wait to watch it; but, so many features that made the CSL such a great league were sacrificed to make this happen. This season's format does not make very much sense in the context of a college league. I only say this because of how much I have enjoyed participating in the CSL, and want the league to continue to improve in coming years. I believe that with this format there will be a dramatic decrease in participation from schools in the future. It is completely untenable and is antithetical to (what I thought) was the spirit of the league.
I wanted to bring to your attention some of the concerns that I and many of my teammates who participate in this league, have with the current format.
1) The timeline is not appropriate for a college league. For anyone that has not looked at the season schedule yet, the regular season will be only four weeks long. In most divisions this will mean a total of 6 matches in the regular season. The season itself (including the grand finals) will end in February, after a month long break between the semi-finals. The most enjoyable part of this league was that it stretched throughout the entire school year. We played matches that everyone got excited about, and were an extremely enjoyable distraction from schoolwork.
This season will not offer that investment from everyone in our community in Starcraft throughout the entire year. During the CSL season, interest in Starcraft goes way up, and our participation in Starcraft based campus events is much higher than usual. With this format, we will have a very short burst of excitement, which will die off quickly. We are looking for other ways to keep this excitement up through other leagues and clan wars, but it is a shame that the CSL, which filled this role all of last year, will fall short.
The best part about the previous format was that it ran at a relaxed schedule. People could put the time into practicing as their schedules permitted with school. Having two matches per week makes this a lot more difficult than it had been previously. It will be very demanding to practice for two matches, put in 3 hours of continuous play over the weekend, and maintain schoolwork.
2) Matches scheduled through winter break. This was such a bad idea---I can't even begin to understand why this was deemed acceptable. The vast majority of college students will travel over winter break, and many will travel out of the country to places without easy access to internet. Two of our best players will be travelling outside of the United States over the break and will be unable to play at all. Irrespective of that, you now force players to choose between spending time with their families and friends and practicing/playing in the playoffs. This is a terrible burden to place on people who have very limited time home, and will make many of them lose interest in the competition altogether. Nobody should have to choose between these two things.
3) The division system does not allow for competition between a variety of schools. As a consequence of only playing six regular season matches, there will not be any inter-division competition. I really enjoyed meeting and testing the mettle of other teams from other parts of the country during the second half of the season. Now, we will only get exposure to a very small number of schools and will not interact with the vast majority of other schools that compete in the CSL.
4) The complete overhaul of the website weeks before the season started. There have been so many problems with this website that have already been mentioned and are not worth repeating. I do not understand why, if a site redesign was necessary for coding reasons, this couldn't have happened months in advance of the season starting. The likelihood that everything will be functional and on the level of the previous site look very bleak now. If it was too much to manage to get a new site up and running and put the new league together, then why try to do both?
5) The misinformation that was given out just days before the season started. From the perspective of a community organizer and someone who was trying to increase interest in Starcraft, this misinformation made our lives a lot harder than they needed to be. We specifically tried to recruit players of lower skill levels and get them engaged, only to be shut down hard at the last minute. Xeris, you said that he hopes that this will be featured in upcoming seasons, which is great, but the part that I don't think you understand is that it was extremely frustrating that you laid out the season format months in advance, only to completely renege on all of those decisions literally at the last minute. At some point you just have to make a decision and stick with it instead of leading everyone around by the nose because it adversely affects the people that you have participating in your league. It is extremely bad practice to continue to put out incorrect information.
I guess I want to know what other schools think. I can say when I read the changes I was immediately disappointed and was very surprised by the reaction from everyone else in the community. Obviously there were some trade-offs, and some of the new additions are very exciting. But, the additions came at the expense of the core elements of the league. Is everyone happy with the fact that the entire season will only be 6 matches, and that the vast majority of schools will only be able to participate for the month of November? I would want to know if these changes were 100% intentional, or a consequence of putting this deal together with Azubu at the last minute. It seems pretty objectively bad from the perspective of having an enjoyable league, which allows for participation from schools of all different skill levels.
Participating in this league forged some tremendous friendships at our school, and we have all been very excited to participate. Honestly, I thought that last year's league format was nearly perfect, and the changes that were announced back in August (2 division system, 2 seasons per year) would have made the league even better. I can't really understand the logic behind many of the recent changes, and I know it is too late to change anything now. I am hoping by writing this that the CSL will reconsider all of the changes that they made this year, and return to the original format in the future. I also, maybe naively, hope that there will be some effort put into arranging some sort of league for after February, when the league finishes. What is the possibility of some sort of season 6.5 or Spring/Summer season happening to supplement the extremely truncated season 6?
Thank you to Hazleynut, Xeris, and all of the folks at the Collegiate Starleague. I don't write this because I want to add unneeded negativity to the community, but because I think this league can be a lot better.
Thanks,
Benji Columbia University
You're right on every point.. they had something very nice going on last year and now so many changes without consulting the community before. This current season is just a disaster.
I would also like to add the BO1 format they currently run isn't really suited for a starcraft league. You can't judge a player's strength by just one match. Having BO3 would add a very real mental aspect to it. Sure it would be at lot more time consuming (maybe an hour), but I feel like it be overall worth it.
great post benji - read ever word and definitely will take them to heart. a lot of them are very valid criticisms so I hope my response will enlighten people who are concerned about the league.
We will have a season "6.5" aka a league after February. Unfortunately I guess this was not made clear but we plan on having 2 seasons a year - so we will have CSL for all of the academic school year. Maybe something in the summer, but we're focused on executing for the current academic year. Its interesting you bring this up because we had a lot of of schools also say that the season is way too long, and people lost interest so we opted to go for the 2 season format. I think this can be remedied with the initial proposition of the dual league system - premiere league and recreational league.
Also, some schools also gave us feedback that they wanted to play more local schools rather than a variety. I think this issue coupled with the one season/two season a year format is something that will need broader polling and surveys to figure out what works best for everyone because I think this is another divisive issue along with 2v2.
OMG WEBSITE I think we can all agree that the website has seen better days, but no one on staff is sitting back and thinking that everything is going dandy. The website affects everyone - not only the players but everyone who has to write for the league, cast for the league, and match admin so the staff have had to carry the burden as well. Our web developers are discussing and fixing issues every single day, and I apologize if the changes are not coming out fast enough to reflect that. With everyone on the CSL staff having participated (or still participating) in CSL, we all know what issues exist and what needs to be fixed.
We're currently looking at workarounds for playoffs bracket so we can manage the league more properly and give everyone the CSL experience people are more accustomed to. During this time, more issues with the website will be fixed. We've also seriously considered running everyone on pen/paper/spreadsheets if it comes down to it because we know the experience is valuable.
Also fixes to SC2 stats were rolled out today, with a small LoL bug stat bug still lurking around. Hope you guys enjoyed your free 300 wins while they lasted!
future stuff We've discussed hosting a mini league with a few schools to solely test the functionality of the new website, depends on time and if we can execute it properly.
We've said time and time again internally that we want to bring back the "lower league" divisions so hopefully your recruiting efforts were not in vain. We could not do it this season with the new website and the new global format, but we've taken note and will aim to improve. Again, the next season is technically post February to summer so you can expect CSL all year. I'll see what we can do to get a rec league up ASAP since its something I personally want to see accomplished.
Anyway benji, thanks a ton for the feedback and what you do in keeping the Columbia team together. We really keep going for you guys and we hear your feedback loud and clear
edit: oops responded to an old post but still hope the info was useful
You're right on every point.. they had something very nice going on last year and now so many changes without consulting the community before. This current season is just a disaster.
I would also like to add the BO1 format they currently run isn't really suited for a starcraft league. You can't judge a player's strength by just one match. Having BO3 would add a very real mental aspect to it. Sure it would be at lot more time consuming (maybe an hour), but I feel like it be overall worth it.
Its fine for a team league, just look at every proleague ever.
Great posts. You will see that the website when complete will be pretty awesome. Also, don't believe that we started the overhaul of the website a few weeks before the season. The re-design was laid out immediately after the CSL finals, and was only heightened when we expanded the scope of our project to fit AZUBU's needs. The problem however is that during the summer, our dev. team had 6 people who were tasked with different areas. Our head developer completely disappeared in August, leaving the rest of the dev. team without any direction or knowledge of the details needed to complete the website [anybody who thinks it's easy to build a site like ours is very naive about development....]. We also lost the only developer on the staff who was capable of front-end coding. This, coupled with all the changes we needed to add (multi-region, LoL support) slowed down the process. Throughout the summer, our 6 man dev team became whittled down to just two, each of whom have school, work, and families to support. I understand everyone's frustration and believe me, nobody feels it more than me - I've put my life (literally) into this project and it pains me to not be able to have a seamless website for you all.
I love the dev team for the work they've been putting in, and they are working their hardest to ensure that the problems get fixed and all the new features are added. Rest assured that the work will be done and the website will run the way you all deserve it to run, I promise this! I'm spending my own money to help make sure this happens.
With respect to the format/etc ... Every season we ask for feedback about the season format. We've switched off between doing two seasons in a year and doing one long season. Generally it seems like people preferred two seasons due to multiple reasons which I won't list here because it's been discussed a lot. So we decided on two seasons. We originally planned for a two division structure (Division 1, registration fees, prize pool, etc for more competitive schools... and Division 2, free to play for more casual schools).
With AZUBU we want to do something big which is why we opted for this format for the season. Our timetable was altered (original schedule: October - January, then February - May) because of this and due to the delayed start we had to truncate the regular season format. Expect a more regular CSL format moving forward. Over the summer we will build in the two-division structure so that our next fall season will have a competitive and casual division. This is a promise!
Further - we do not feel comfortable at this time with registration fees so we will not have them until we are 100% certain that our product is smooth, streamlined, and the user experience is up to our high standards. So hopefully nobody is worried about that!
Our next season will be from March - early June, and over the summer we will have a recreational league and other fun activities while we prepare the site for the next fall.
Thanks for the constructive feedback and I hope I've explained some of the issues and underlying problems. We hope that despite the website difficulty everyone is enjoying the CSL, and if not... please have patience as we work through the issues !!
While I appreciate the front-end replies from shindigs and Xeris, I have to agree with Qurmish aka Benji. Constructive criticism will make CSL a better product.
An unpolished experience We do hope next year will be better, but this one has been a complete letdown. Problems do occur, granted, but as you said, you wanted something big, but in the end, the experience left us very unsatisfied. Personally, a big prize pool is interesting, but it's the quality and not the quantity that made CSL special. Respectfully (and imho), I think you should of kept the old website and postponed the sponsorship of AZUBU (or just changed the templates/colors of the old one...?). You went from a functional website to a test product (forgive the harsh words, but in terms on functionalities, it went backward).
The current format This season would of been much better had it been longer and matches each week were BO3 AND played against only one university, as martinni pointed out.
Future I'm happy to hear that there will be a season after the finals. It's a shame though that it happens so late in the semester though.
In hope for a better CSL, yours truly,
Warshop École de technologie supérieure (joined CSL in autumn 2010)
I have a question! *raises hand then speaks freely* Can someone please explain to me how the playoff brackets were decided? Because looking at them it doesn't appear as though any thought went into making them, and here's why I think that!
Here is our division, #1 seed Berkeley, #2 SFSU, #3 Nebraska Lincoln, #4 Cal Poly Our opponents, Division Blue 12 #1 North Dakota, #2 Manitoba, #3 Saskatchewon, #4 Rowan
So shouldnt it be, UCB vs Rowan, SFSU vs Saskatchewon, Nebraska Lincoln vs Manitoba, and Cal Poly vs North Dakota?? Instead they have UCB (1) vs Saskatchewon (3), SFSU (2) vs Manitoba (2), Cal Poly (4) vs Rowan (4), and Nebraska-Lincoln (3) vs North Dakota (1)
Not only do our opponents not make sense, but they have UCB and SFSU, if both beat their first round opponents, playing against each other in the very next round. What is the point of the season and getting the top 4 from each division, if you're just going to make them play each other all over again in the second round? UCB and SFSU literally just played each other the very last week of the season, so you're going to have them possibly play each other again on the first week of playoffs, now how does that make sense?
I was to understand that seeding in brackets was to put the higher seed vs lower seed to reward teams for their efforts/work during the season, but it seems like they randomly picked two divisions, threw them together and THEN they put them all next to each other so that if two teams from the same division make it out of the first round that they'll just play each other again, basically a rematch from the season. Smh man, smh.....
You're right on every point.. they had something very nice going on last year and now so many changes without consulting the community before. This current season is just a disaster.
I would also like to add the BO1 format they currently run isn't really suited for a starcraft league. You can't judge a player's strength by just one match. Having BO3 would add a very real mental aspect to it. Sure it would be at lot more time consuming (maybe an hour), but I feel like it be overall worth it.
Its fine for a team league, just look at every proleague ever.
BW's a diff game mega, I think even OSL is changing soon Bo1's are bad for SC2, even some kespa players admitted it in interviews.
On October 30 2012 05:19 Qurmish wrote: I completely agree with everything the clm100 said in his post above, and apologize for the way my previous concerns were voiced on the CSL website, which contributed to a massive flamefest. I am extremely disappointed with many of the decisions that the CSL has made this season. I think it is great that there is a big name sponsor and there will be a live event---it sounds like a ton of fun and I can't wait to watch it; but, so many features that made the CSL such a great league were sacrificed to make this happen. This season's format does not make very much sense in the context of a college league. I only say this because of how much I have enjoyed participating in the CSL, and want the league to continue to improve in coming years. I believe that with this format there will be a dramatic decrease in participation from schools in the future. It is completely untenable and is antithetical to (what I thought) was the spirit of the league.
I wanted to bring to your attention some of the concerns that I and many of my teammates who participate in this league, have with the current format.
1) The timeline is not appropriate for a college league. For anyone that has not looked at the season schedule yet, the regular season will be only four weeks long. In most divisions this will mean a total of 6 matches in the regular season. The season itself (including the grand finals) will end in February, after a month long break between the semi-finals. The most enjoyable part of this league was that it stretched throughout the entire school year. We played matches that everyone got excited about, and were an extremely enjoyable distraction from schoolwork.
This season will not offer that investment from everyone in our community in Starcraft throughout the entire year. During the CSL season, interest in Starcraft goes way up, and our participation in Starcraft based campus events is much higher than usual. With this format, we will have a very short burst of excitement, which will die off quickly. We are looking for other ways to keep this excitement up through other leagues and clan wars, but it is a shame that the CSL, which filled this role all of last year, will fall short.
The best part about the previous format was that it ran at a relaxed schedule. People could put the time into practicing as their schedules permitted with school. Having two matches per week makes this a lot more difficult than it had been previously. It will be very demanding to practice for two matches, put in 3 hours of continuous play over the weekend, and maintain schoolwork.
2) Matches scheduled through winter break. This was such a bad idea---I can't even begin to understand why this was deemed acceptable. The vast majority of college students will travel over winter break, and many will travel out of the country to places without easy access to internet. Two of our best players will be travelling outside of the United States over the break and will be unable to play at all. Irrespective of that, you now force players to choose between spending time with their families and friends and practicing/playing in the playoffs. This is a terrible burden to place on people who have very limited time home, and will make many of them lose interest in the competition altogether. Nobody should have to choose between these two things.
3) The division system does not allow for competition between a variety of schools. As a consequence of only playing six regular season matches, there will not be any inter-division competition. I really enjoyed meeting and testing the mettle of other teams from other parts of the country during the second half of the season. Now, we will only get exposure to a very small number of schools and will not interact with the vast majority of other schools that compete in the CSL.
4) The complete overhaul of the website weeks before the season started. There have been so many problems with this website that have already been mentioned and are not worth repeating. I do not understand why, if a site redesign was necessary for coding reasons, this couldn't have happened months in advance of the season starting. The likelihood that everything will be functional and on the level of the previous site look very bleak now. If it was too much to manage to get a new site up and running and put the new league together, then why try to do both?
5) The misinformation that was given out just days before the season started. From the perspective of a community organizer and someone who was trying to increase interest in Starcraft, this misinformation made our lives a lot harder than they needed to be. We specifically tried to recruit players of lower skill levels and get them engaged, only to be shut down hard at the last minute. Xeris, you said that he hopes that this will be featured in upcoming seasons, which is great, but the part that I don't think you understand is that it was extremely frustrating that you laid out the season format months in advance, only to completely renege on all of those decisions literally at the last minute. At some point you just have to make a decision and stick with it instead of leading everyone around by the nose because it adversely affects the people that you have participating in your league. It is extremely bad practice to continue to put out incorrect information.
I guess I want to know what other schools think. I can say when I read the changes I was immediately disappointed and was very surprised by the reaction from everyone else in the community. Obviously there were some trade-offs, and some of the new additions are very exciting. But, the additions came at the expense of the core elements of the league. Is everyone happy with the fact that the entire season will only be 6 matches, and that the vast majority of schools will only be able to participate for the month of November? I would want to know if these changes were 100% intentional, or a consequence of putting this deal together with Azubu at the last minute. It seems pretty objectively bad from the perspective of having an enjoyable league, which allows for participation from schools of all different skill levels.
Participating in this league forged some tremendous friendships at our school, and we have all been very excited to participate. Honestly, I thought that last year's league format was nearly perfect, and the changes that were announced back in August (2 division system, 2 seasons per year) would have made the league even better. I can't really understand the logic behind many of the recent changes, and I know it is too late to change anything now. I am hoping by writing this that the CSL will reconsider all of the changes that they made this year, and return to the original format in the future. I also, maybe naively, hope that there will be some effort put into arranging some sort of league for after February, when the league finishes. What is the possibility of some sort of season 6.5 or Spring/Summer season happening to supplement the extremely truncated season 6?
Thank you to Hazleynut, Xeris, and all of the folks at the Collegiate Starleague. I don't write this because I want to add unneeded negativity to the community, but because I think this league can be a lot better.
Thanks,
Benji Columbia University
A lot of this. The website overhaul was awful. Half of it still isn't even available.
I don't necessarily mind a shorter season. But winter break games are weird, if you don't have a laptop, most people won't be able to play (bad). And CSL got way too into a "big prize pool" or whatever with Azubu. College kids don't need a 40k prize pool to 5-10 players! Distribute that farther down so that Ro16 isn't getting 500$, and make first prize like 20k. That's pretty reasonable imo.
I support Bo3 for games. They're all played at the same time anyways, so a Bo3 makes sense time wise. Maybe it would be harder to cast a whole match, but there isn't really an explicit streaming schedule anyways.
SLOWER matches, more organization, and better prizepool distribution, please! We don't need to be IPL. Don't forget how y'all got started, you can seriously grow really intensely without having the highest 1st prize in all team leagues or anything.
Hi just want to make sure Novice's post doesn't get buried by Alryk's.
Novice is completely right that the bracket was done incorrectly -- the seeding is backwards and causes multiple instances of division-leaders to face off in just the second round.
Hoping this gets attention from CSL and is not swept under the rug
I made the same post as novice last night but as an email to the csl admins. Then after I was done I remade the bracket so that each team in in a division wouldn't have to play a rematch until ro4 at the earliest. On top of that the seeding should be done properly. Though I did do this at 5am so there might be some errors, but if csl gets behind it Ill check it all and hope to get it official.
I can concur with the brackets issue. UC Riverside has no fear of any school, but for the schools who do, I can see why people would be upset about the brackets.
On December 05 2012 05:01 T.O.P. wrote: Once again. No fixes to unbalanced scheduling.
What's the point to a regular season when you're gonna be playing the same guys whether you're the first seed or the 4th?
And 7 unique players right before finals and into winter break? How the hell are coordinators supposed to find people to play.
Agree completely. This playoff bracket and timing is complete bullshit.
The seeding is just plain messed up for a multitude of reasons. Because the majority of teams still get into playoffs, it makes the regular season completely pointless for the most part as only the absolute worst of teams (probably can't field a full lineup of competitive players, or possibly inactive), get culled. This still leaves many schools who clearly don't deserve to be in the playoffs in there, and provides no tension as almost all the major schools with good teams get in with no threat of elimination early. Another problem is that playoffs seem to be an extension of the regular season for the most part, when schools of your division are going to meet you if they get at least as far as you do in your position of the brackets. It's not that fun to play against the schools you already competed against during the regular season, and because it seems that there is no regional distinction to where divisions are placed in the brackets, you can't even determine major regional champions if you wanted this way. The currently implemented seeding also makes finishing first or barely qualifying largely irrelevant as you end up playing most of the schools in your division if they perform as well as your own.
Playoffs also seem to be completely unequal with respect to schools which run on the quarter system, as it begins directly during finals and continues on through Winter break, both times which make it extremely difficult for players to showup, much less practice for their matches so they can put on good games. Combined with the bo7 straight from the beginning (a departure from last season), it's going to make it very tough for coordinators to put a lineup that show's their school's best. I can imagine even fielding ANY lineup to be an impossible task for smaller schools with not as many players during this time frame.
On December 04 2012 19:37 Novice wrote: I have a question! *raises hand then speaks freely* Can someone please explain to me how the playoff brackets were decided? Because looking at them it doesn't appear as though any thought went into making them, and here's why I think that!
Here is our division, #1 seed Berkeley, #2 SFSU, #3 Nebraska Lincoln, #4 Cal Poly Our opponents, Division Blue 12 #1 North Dakota, #2 Manitoba, #3 Saskatchewon, #4 Rowan
So shouldnt it be, UCB vs Rowan, SFSU vs Saskatchewon, Nebraska Lincoln vs Manitoba, and Cal Poly vs North Dakota?? Instead they have UCB (1) vs Saskatchewon (3), SFSU (2) vs Manitoba (2), Cal Poly (4) vs Rowan (4), and Nebraska-Lincoln (3) vs North Dakota (1)
Not only do our opponents not make sense, but they have UCB and SFSU, if both beat their first round opponents, playing against each other in the very next round. What is the point of the season and getting the top 4 from each division, if you're just going to make them play each other all over again in the second round? UCB and SFSU literally just played each other the very last week of the season, so you're going to have them possibly play each other again on the first week of playoffs, now how does that make sense?
I was to understand that seeding in brackets was to put the higher seed vs lower seed to reward teams for their efforts/work during the season, but it seems like they randomly picked two divisions, threw them together and THEN they put them all next to each other so that if two teams from the same division make it out of the first round that they'll just play each other again, basically a rematch from the season. Smh man, smh.....
Thanks for your post, but some of your information is incorrect. There is a bug with statistics not being recorded accurately on the site. We have our own list by hand. The standings for your divisions are:
1. Berkeley 2. SF State 3. Pomona 4. Nebraska-Lincoln
1. North Dakota 2. Rowan 3. Manitoba 4. Saskatchewan
The matchups are all fine. I will look into the placing of the matchups today and see if we can change things around to make it more equitable. Thanks!
are all slots for players in playoffs required to be unique? there are 5 1v1s and a 2v2 and season rules say that they all have to be unique. jw because our opponents have 6 players so i wonder if theyre going to have to forfeit one.
I feel like the Azubu Collegiate Champions is getting a lot of shit even though they told us when we signed up that we would be playing through the holiday season,
"Here’s the reality: the Azubu Collegiate Champions will be a gauntlet for all teams. Playtime will last 2-3 hours in the regular season, and due to our schedule and limited time, we will play through holidays and exam periods. All teams and players should account for this and set aside time for matches or reschedule ahead of time. Teams who advance must confirm that they are able to come to the live finals on February 2-3, 2013."
I am not saying I agree with this, but they did warn us...
Yes, but the problem was the extreme delays made organizing very difficult. Also, the terrible website has made this entire season annoying at every turn.
I thought the delay was because of the hurricane? It was like a one week delay....
There was a lack of information though, I know some teams that had trouble submitting line-ups because they were unsure when they had to submit it. (Azubu Collegiate Championship did tell us however when they wanted line-ups: "Lineups are due earlier than in the previous season, giving teams more time to prepare for opponents. Saturday matches will be due Monday and Sunday matches due Tuesday.") Maybe the website should have posted their information better....
Seeing as I see only one playoff bracket: is this the "play for money" playoffs, or is there something additional? I'm confused because I see nothing for Europe/Asia, but I also see no other playoffs, and payout technically starts at Ro16.
On December 05 2012 12:44 KingDime wrote: Yes, but the problem was the extreme delays made organizing very difficult. Also, the terrible website has made this entire season annoying at every turn.
There was only a 1 week delay and that was due to the hurricane...
Also about the playoffs: there's nothing wrong with the actual matchups. We are going to re-adjust the order to make it so division teams won't play each other until later in the bracket, however.
We know about the website errors, and as I've said before, we're working hard on getting them fixed while still adding all the necessary features to the site.
On December 05 2012 19:26 Xeris wrote: Just re-did the bracket after taking some community suggestions. Now, same-division teams will avoid each other for a few rounds.
<3
Just saw the updated bracket! Great job Xeris!! This looks much better :D
On December 05 2012 19:26 Xeris wrote: Just re-did the bracket after taking some community suggestions. Now, same-division teams will avoid each other for a few rounds.
This is such a major improvement! The seeding is still slightly off, but with at least the mixing up of the divisions I can get on board with these playoffs. Thanks to the CSL for addressing what they could in this short amount of time, I appreciate all their hard work up to this point. I was assuming I was just going to post my rant upset and never see anything happen, but to see that the CSL listens to the community is very encouraging. Best of luck to everyone in the playoffs, and best of luck to the CSL on continuing to improve their SC2 tourney in the future!
Brackets looking much better, although seeding does seem strange in some ways.
A&M Fighting!
Edit: Xeris, are we supposed to be able to access replays for opponents? It seems like the functionality is there, but some links are broken, and others that let you download replays seem to be blocked by some administrator or something (says I don't have authority to view)
Double edit: I can launch it from replay within SC2, but not from just my folders in windows explorer. Weird.
Alyrk, can you email me at tim@cstarleague.com with the replays you have issues with? We've had issues most of the season but they should be fixed now. There may be a few weird issues lingering but I'll have to check it out as admin.
Why does the CSL seem incapable of making a decision and sticking with it? You changed the qualification rules for the All star thing last year on a whim that ended up just favoring the popular players despite their inferior records, now you are changing the bracket after we already saw it.
When you have a decision to make, do you all agree on a set of heuristics and find the optimal solution, or does someone just throw something together on a whim and then feel guilty about it and change at the first sign of negativity? It really seems like the second one to me. Seeding a bracket to maximize diversity should be a simple task for someone with any understanding of competition.. Hell, Challonge does it for free.
Also you switched to full bo7 for the playoffs this year because a small group of very large schools all pushed really hard for it, knowing full well it hugely favored them. Its like you guys have no idea what its actually like for 95% of teams to put together a decent roster during finals. I'm not really that upset about this, since my school is probably one of the few that actually recruited our asses off and found a decent amount of players. Still, We have like 15k undergrads. Imagine what the schools with 5k must go though.
On December 05 2012 11:44 Homework wrote: Watch out, world. PSU will totally win this whole thing. XD
would be refreshing
On December 05 2012 19:26 Xeris wrote: Just re-did the bracket after taking some community suggestions. Now, same-division teams will avoid each other for a few rounds.
<3
Most Community suggestions come from people with a motive. I have a strong hunch that many of the people who complained did so because they were displeased with the difficulty of their opponents. Good job. You just gave them a re-do, and as many teams as you just made happy, you also just shafted.
Does BWC re-shuffle their bracket when Lucifron and Vortix play each other in the first round? What kind of competitive integrity would that be? If you opened up a poll on TL, how many people do you expect would prefer they not play each other early in the tournament? Does Dreamhack ask popular players who they would like to avoid in their side of the bracket, and then re-draw if the fans hate it? No! For a tournament with so much money on the line, it is completely unacceptable that you would announce a bracket, get heat from it by people with self-interested PARTIALITY, and then think things were ok when all you did was oil the squeaky wheels, as if they are somehow more deserving than ever school who was silently preparing for the playoffs. You did the playoffs by Region last year. What suddenly changed?
These are major competitive integrity issues that could be avoided with basic foresight. I'm sorry, I really do love you guys for what you do, but the lack of consistency is so frustrating.
On December 06 2012 15:12 sambo400 wrote: Why does the CSL seem incapable of making a decision and sticking with it? You changed the qualification rules for the All star thing last year on a whim that ended up just favoring the popular players despite their inferior records, now you are changing the bracket after we already saw it.
When you have a decision to make, do you all agree on a set of heuristics and find the optimal solution, or does someone just throw something together on a whim and then feel guilty about it and change at the first sign of negativity? It really seems like the second one to me. Seeding a bracket to maximize diversity should be a simple task for someone with any understanding of competition.. Hell, Challonge does it for free.
Also you switched to full bo7 for the playoffs this year because a small group of very large schools all pushed really hard for it, knowing full well it hugely favored them. Its like you guys have no idea what its actually like for 95% of teams to put together a decent roster during finals is like. I'm not really that upset about this, since my school is probably one of the few that actually recruited our asses off and found a decent amount of players. Still, We have like 15k undergrads. Imagine what the schools with 5k must go though.
On December 05 2012 19:26 Xeris wrote: Just re-did the bracket after taking some community suggestions. Now, same-division teams will avoid each other for a few rounds.
<3
Most Community suggestions come from people with a motive. I have a strong hunch that many of the people who complained did so because they were displeased with the difficulty of their opponents. Good job. You just gave them a re-do, and as many teams as you just made happy, you also just shafted.
Does BWC re-shuffle their bracket when Lucifron and Vortix play each other in the first round? What kind of competitive integrity would that be? If you opened up a poll on TL, how many people do you expect would prefer they not play each other early in the tournament? For a tournament with so much money on the line, it is completely unacceptable that you would announce a bracket, get heat from it by people with self-interested PARTIALITY, and then think things were ok when all you did was oil the squeaky wheel. You did the playoffs by Region last year. What suddenly changed?
These are major competitive integrity issues that could be avoided with basic foresight. I'm sorry, I really do love you guys for what you do, but the lack of consistency is so frustrating.
Man this post is utterly hilarious I don't even know where to begin. One of the main reasons the CSL stood out (and will continue to stand out) for many years is the fact that they respond quickly and reasonably to community feedback. Guess we should have CSL become like KeSPA with their hybrid proleague idea despite massive protests continue with their decision regardless of how poor it may be.
Of all the things that people dislike (such as the website, casting and/or administration)... this one has been the biggest joke of the century. So glad you are among the minority that bothers to nitpick pointless issues.
The only thing we changed in the bracket is that we made it more equitable so that teams from the same division wouldn't play until later. It was because we made a mistake.
Also, we didn't change anything about the All Star tournament last year... it was ALWAYS based on popularity, like all all star tournaments =D
Bracket change was GOOD. We had like one opponent out of all possible from Ro128-Ro16 that wasn't from our division, and we crushed everyone. It was boring.
Shindigs, yeah, I will. I can't track them all down, but I can say that Wentworth Institute of Technology versus Worcester doesn't work. (Any of them) I'm sure there are more, but there's a place to start, maybe there's a commonality in the code of the broken page or something.
On December 06 2012 14:07 shindigs wrote: Alyrk, can you email me at tim@cstarleague.com with the replays you have issues with? We've had issues most of the season but they should be fixed now. There may be a few weird issues lingering but I'll have to check it out as admin.
Emailed you two examples, one with a working replay page, the other without.
On December 06 2012 15:12 sambo400 wrote: Why does the CSL seem incapable of making a decision and sticking with it? You changed the qualification rules for the All star thing last year on a whim that ended up just favoring the popular players despite their inferior records, now you are changing the bracket after we already saw it.
When you have a decision to make, do you all agree on a set of heuristics and find the optimal solution, or does someone just throw something together on a whim and then feel guilty about it and change at the first sign of negativity? It really seems like the second one to me. Seeding a bracket to maximize diversity should be a simple task for someone with any understanding of competition.. Hell, Challonge does it for free.
Also you switched to full bo7 for the playoffs this year because a small group of very large schools all pushed really hard for it, knowing full well it hugely favored them. Its like you guys have no idea what its actually like for 95% of teams to put together a decent roster during finals. I'm not really that upset about this, since my school is probably one of the few that actually recruited our asses off and found a decent amount of players. Still, We have like 15k undergrads. Imagine what the schools with 5k must go though.
On December 05 2012 19:26 Xeris wrote: Just re-did the bracket after taking some community suggestions. Now, same-division teams will avoid each other for a few rounds.
<3
Most Community suggestions come from people with a motive. I have a strong hunch that many of the people who complained did so because they were displeased with the difficulty of their opponents. Good job. You just gave them a re-do, and as many teams as you just made happy, you also just shafted.
Does BWC re-shuffle their bracket when Lucifron and Vortix play each other in the first round? What kind of competitive integrity would that be? If you opened up a poll on TL, how many people do you expect would prefer they not play each other early in the tournament? Does Dreamhack ask popular players who they would like to avoid in their side of the bracket, and then re-draw if the fans hate it? No! For a tournament with so much money on the line, it is completely unacceptable that you would announce a bracket, get heat from it by people with self-interested PARTIALITY, and then think things were ok when all you did was oil the squeaky wheels, as if they are somehow more deserving than ever school who was silently preparing for the playoffs. You did the playoffs by Region last year. What suddenly changed?
These are major competitive integrity issues that could be avoided with basic foresight. I'm sorry, I really do love you guys for what you do, but the lack of consistency is so frustrating.
Agree with this. Now if CSL didn't make so many outrageous decisions in the first place. They wouldn't change what they say so often.
On December 06 2012 15:12 sambo400 wrote: Why does the CSL seem incapable of making a decision and sticking with it? You changed the qualification rules for the All star thing last year on a whim that ended up just favoring the popular players despite their inferior records, now you are changing the bracket after we already saw it.
When you have a decision to make, do you all agree on a set of heuristics and find the optimal solution, or does someone just throw something together on a whim and then feel guilty about it and change at the first sign of negativity? It really seems like the second one to me. Seeding a bracket to maximize diversity should be a simple task for someone with any understanding of competition.. Hell, Challonge does it for free.
Also you switched to full bo7 for the playoffs this year because a small group of very large schools all pushed really hard for it, knowing full well it hugely favored them. Its like you guys have no idea what its actually like for 95% of teams to put together a decent roster during finals. I'm not really that upset about this, since my school is probably one of the few that actually recruited our asses off and found a decent amount of players. Still, We have like 15k undergrads. Imagine what the schools with 5k must go though.
On December 05 2012 11:44 Homework wrote: Watch out, world. PSU will totally win this whole thing. XD
would be refreshing
On December 05 2012 19:26 Xeris wrote: Just re-did the bracket after taking some community suggestions. Now, same-division teams will avoid each other for a few rounds.
<3
Most Community suggestions come from people with a motive. I have a strong hunch that many of the people who complained did so because they were displeased with the difficulty of their opponents. Good job. You just gave them a re-do, and as many teams as you just made happy, you also just shafted.
Does BWC re-shuffle their bracket when Lucifron and Vortix play each other in the first round? What kind of competitive integrity would that be? If you opened up a poll on TL, how many people do you expect would prefer they not play each other early in the tournament? Does Dreamhack ask popular players who they would like to avoid in their side of the bracket, and then re-draw if the fans hate it? No! For a tournament with so much money on the line, it is completely unacceptable that you would announce a bracket, get heat from it by people with self-interested PARTIALITY, and then think things were ok when all you did was oil the squeaky wheels, as if they are somehow more deserving than ever school who was silently preparing for the playoffs. You did the playoffs by Region last year. What suddenly changed?
These are major competitive integrity issues that could be avoided with basic foresight. I'm sorry, I really do love you guys for what you do, but the lack of consistency is so frustrating.
Agree with this. Now if CSL didn't make so many outrageous decisions in the first place. They wouldn't change what they say so often.
The seeding was way off. Anybody can objectively say that when 3 of your first 4 potential opponents are from your old division, and your first match is vs. somebody in your division. They did a lot wrong, but that was a good change. Regardless of the motives, objectively that's what should be done.
If the #1 seed and #2 seed out of group play in a group of MLG got immediately matched up against each other, or #1 and #2 in a Ro8 of GSL got matched up against each other, and the #2 complained, they'd have every right to, even if they did it simply because they considered themselves worse than #1, because the seeding was wrong.
On December 06 2012 15:12 sambo400 wrote: Why does the CSL seem incapable of making a decision and sticking with it? You changed the qualification rules for the All star thing last year on a whim that ended up just favoring the popular players despite their inferior records, now you are changing the bracket after we already saw it.
When you have a decision to make, do you all agree on a set of heuristics and find the optimal solution, or does someone just throw something together on a whim and then feel guilty about it and change at the first sign of negativity? It really seems like the second one to me. Seeding a bracket to maximize diversity should be a simple task for someone with any understanding of competition.. Hell, Challonge does it for free.
Also you switched to full bo7 for the playoffs this year because a small group of very large schools all pushed really hard for it, knowing full well it hugely favored them. Its like you guys have no idea what its actually like for 95% of teams to put together a decent roster during finals. I'm not really that upset about this, since my school is probably one of the few that actually recruited our asses off and found a decent amount of players. Still, We have like 15k undergrads. Imagine what the schools with 5k must go though.
On December 05 2012 11:44 Homework wrote: Watch out, world. PSU will totally win this whole thing. XD
would be refreshing
On December 05 2012 19:26 Xeris wrote: Just re-did the bracket after taking some community suggestions. Now, same-division teams will avoid each other for a few rounds.
<3
Most Community suggestions come from people with a motive. I have a strong hunch that many of the people who complained did so because they were displeased with the difficulty of their opponents. Good job. You just gave them a re-do, and as many teams as you just made happy, you also just shafted.
Does BWC re-shuffle their bracket when Lucifron and Vortix play each other in the first round? What kind of competitive integrity would that be? If you opened up a poll on TL, how many people do you expect would prefer they not play each other early in the tournament? Does Dreamhack ask popular players who they would like to avoid in their side of the bracket, and then re-draw if the fans hate it? No! For a tournament with so much money on the line, it is completely unacceptable that you would announce a bracket, get heat from it by people with self-interested PARTIALITY, and then think things were ok when all you did was oil the squeaky wheels, as if they are somehow more deserving than ever school who was silently preparing for the playoffs. You did the playoffs by Region last year. What suddenly changed?
These are major competitive integrity issues that could be avoided with basic foresight. I'm sorry, I really do love you guys for what you do, but the lack of consistency is so frustrating.
Agree with this. Now if CSL didn't make so many outrageous decisions in the first place. They wouldn't change what they say so often.
The seeding was way off. Anybody can objectively say that when 3 of your first 4 potential opponents are from your old division, and your first match is vs. somebody in your division. They did a lot wrong, but that was a good change. Regardless of the motives, objectively that's what should be done.
If the #1 seed and #2 seed out of group play in a group of MLG got immediately matched up against each other, or #1 and #2 in a Ro8 of GSL got matched up against each other, and the #2 complained, they'd have every right to, even if they did it simply because they considered themselves worse than #1, because the seeding was wrong.
I agree it had to be fixed. But they shouldn't fuck it up in the first place. It's like they didn't even look at the bracket before releasing it.
On December 06 2012 15:12 sambo400 wrote: Why does the CSL seem incapable of making a decision and sticking with it? You changed the qualification rules for the All star thing last year on a whim that ended up just favoring the popular players despite their inferior records, now you are changing the bracket after we already saw it.
When you have a decision to make, do you all agree on a set of heuristics and find the optimal solution, or does someone just throw something together on a whim and then feel guilty about it and change at the first sign of negativity? It really seems like the second one to me. Seeding a bracket to maximize diversity should be a simple task for someone with any understanding of competition.. Hell, Challonge does it for free.
Also you switched to full bo7 for the playoffs this year because a small group of very large schools all pushed really hard for it, knowing full well it hugely favored them. Its like you guys have no idea what its actually like for 95% of teams to put together a decent roster during finals. I'm not really that upset about this, since my school is probably one of the few that actually recruited our asses off and found a decent amount of players. Still, We have like 15k undergrads. Imagine what the schools with 5k must go though.
On December 05 2012 11:44 Homework wrote: Watch out, world. PSU will totally win this whole thing. XD
would be refreshing
On December 05 2012 19:26 Xeris wrote: Just re-did the bracket after taking some community suggestions. Now, same-division teams will avoid each other for a few rounds.
<3
Most Community suggestions come from people with a motive. I have a strong hunch that many of the people who complained did so because they were displeased with the difficulty of their opponents. Good job. You just gave them a re-do, and as many teams as you just made happy, you also just shafted.
Does BWC re-shuffle their bracket when Lucifron and Vortix play each other in the first round? What kind of competitive integrity would that be? If you opened up a poll on TL, how many people do you expect would prefer they not play each other early in the tournament? Does Dreamhack ask popular players who they would like to avoid in their side of the bracket, and then re-draw if the fans hate it? No! For a tournament with so much money on the line, it is completely unacceptable that you would announce a bracket, get heat from it by people with self-interested PARTIALITY, and then think things were ok when all you did was oil the squeaky wheels, as if they are somehow more deserving than ever school who was silently preparing for the playoffs. You did the playoffs by Region last year. What suddenly changed?
These are major competitive integrity issues that could be avoided with basic foresight. I'm sorry, I really do love you guys for what you do, but the lack of consistency is so frustrating.
Agree with this. Now if CSL didn't make so many outrageous decisions in the first place. They wouldn't change what they say so often.
The seeding was way off. Anybody can objectively say that when 3 of your first 4 potential opponents are from your old division, and your first match is vs. somebody in your division. They did a lot wrong, but that was a good change. Regardless of the motives, objectively that's what should be done.
If the #1 seed and #2 seed out of group play in a group of MLG got immediately matched up against each other, or #1 and #2 in a Ro8 of GSL got matched up against each other, and the #2 complained, they'd have every right to, even if they did it simply because they considered themselves worse than #1, because the seeding was wrong.
I agree it had to be fixed. But they shouldn't fuck it up in the first place. It's like they didn't even look at the bracket before releasing it.
Oh, well yeah. I agree with that.
Shindigs, if you could update us on the replay coding/problem asap that would be awesome.
Our guys showed up, although it was a show up and get off kind of thing.
When will the playoff brackets be updated? Some of the teams show a "something went wrong" when you try and look up their match.
Edit: Feedback to CSL: I understand (as someone said) that you were on a tight schedule, and so you couldn't afford to push back the playoffs at all. But it's finals. In that case, cut the Ro128. PLEASE do not host playoffs during finals next semester. Just make it a 64 round playoffs, that's still plenty of teams.
we didnt even play 2v2 yet we are supposed to play tomorrow (monday) but it already says we lost. csl mistake? or bm rutgers? csl admins email says we play monday i dont know what youre trying to pull rutgers. @ucberkeley we're not done yet so dont start planning to vs rutgers. some hanky panky going on in here
On December 17 2012 16:06 JiYan wrote: we didnt even play 2v2 yet we are supposed to play tomorrow (monday) but it already says we lost. csl mistake? or bm rutgers? csl admins email says we play monday i dont know what youre trying to pull rutgers. @ucberkeley we're not done yet so dont start planning to vs rutgers. some hanky panky going on in here
Hi, we advanced the bracket based on the scores on the match pages. On your match page, it shows rutgers 4-2 with the 2v2 unplayed? This is the information we were going off of. For now, the ro32 match was deleted, since I guess one of the players must have reported a set incorrectly and it should be 3-3 right now?
On December 17 2012 16:23 TehV747 wrote: lmao im pretty sure Rutgers got the walkover. check your email. Please dont call a school bm until youre 100% sure they were.
yea i just read the email and im now 100% they were. we told rutgers a week in advance we're available anytime outside of the weekend and they refused to find time for a single match to be played. I gave them the freedom to choose any time on monday, and because of that freedom, they take walkover because I didnt specify time? yea, 100% bm. CSL not the manner community it used to be.
On December 18 2012 04:09 JiYan wrote: yea i just read the email and im now 100% they were. we told rutgers a week in advance we're available anytime outside of the weekend and they refused to find time for a single match to be played. I gave them the freedom to choose any time on monday, and because of that freedom, they take walkover because I didnt specify time? yea, 100% bm. CSL not the manner community it used to be.
In that match we were able to reschedule 2 separate games to two different times; Whirlwind to saturday night and Tal'Darim to sunday night, so saying that we made no effort to accommodate your final exams is incorrect. However your school is not the only one that is currently in finals week, making scheduling difficult us as well and doubly so for 2v2. Our exam schedule made it impossible to play 2v2 on Friday. After I heard of your concern I proposed what I believed to be generous offer, that we could play 2v2 at anytime on the weekend, all UCR had to do was select a time and we would have been there. However this was not good enough for UCR, and you asked csl if we could reschedule to monday, the administrators agreed provided both admins agreed to a time and messaged the administrators. However UCR never messaged us proposing times in fact no messages were received at all by us or the administrators. Because nothing was heard from UCR and no time was set we assumed that UCR had accepted the default time and that the match would be played then as per the CSL rules. However come Sunday at default time UCR claimed that the match had been postponed which it wasnt as neither team had completed the requirements set by the csl to reschedule. At that point it was impossible to accommodate them as one of our 2v2 players had arranged to travel home after the scheduled match time and we would no longer be able to play.
We were the first ones to send an email specifically saying anytime other than the weekend. Why would you read that and pretend to be accommodating by telling us to choose a day on the weekend when we said over a week ago anytime BUT the weekend? mona told us to arrange a time to play on monday so i thought it would be all good. it makes no sense for mona to allow us to play monday and have us already be forfeited by sunday. it makes no sense. and youre saying its impossible for your guy to play because he already left for home, and you didnt want to tell us that when we emailed both you and the league about rescheduling to monday?
my partner and i have been online btw since noon. he signed off since your guys werent on. but i told him to be on tonight at 7pm (pst) to try and catch you guys then.
Out of curiosity, whatever happened to the playoffs for Asia? I don't see anything...? Did they do something special or are they doing something special? And do prizes go to the round of 16/8 of each playoff set? Otherwise, how are Ro16/8 prizes being determined, since there's a Ro16 for both US and EU.
Also, (at least for us), matches went off without a hitch, which was nice.
One of the lucky ones. Half of our starters at Pitt have quit as a result of getting screwed over for the second year in a row in one of the most insulting fashions possible.
On December 18 2012 05:35 JiYan wrote: We were the first ones to send an email specifically saying anytime other than the weekend. Why would you read that and pretend to be accommodating by telling us to choose a day on the weekend when we said over a week ago anytime BUT the weekend? mona told us to arrange a time to play on monday so i thought it would be all good. it makes no sense for mona to allow us to play monday and have us already be forfeited by sunday. it makes no sense. and youre saying its impossible for your guy to play because he already left for home, and you didnt want to tell us that when we emailed both you and the league about rescheduling to monday?
my partner and i have been online btw since noon. he signed off since your guys werent on. but i told him to be on tonight at 7pm (pst) to try and catch you guys then.
Ok so what i get is that you couldnt play on the weekend and they couldnt play on the weekdays. I can see that Riverside finished its exam period on the 14th but Rutgers continues until the 21st. Since you couldnt play on the weekend you asked if you could reschedule, and Rutgers gave you the times that they could play. None of those worked for you, you contacted admin whose reply was to pick a time for monday. However you never replied for a time to either the admin or to rutgers, and thus the match was to be played at default time.
So it seems like you guys made a mistake on your end, not informing any party of the time for which you wanted to play on monday and thus the match had to be called a forfeit as CSL couldnt wait indefinitely for a reply. When there is no communication these misunderstandings occur, but as it seems like the lack of communication was from your end i see no reason why you all trying to fight this case and calling Rutgers a BM university.
CSL emailed both universities to find a time on monday, not just Riverside. the whole thing was a group email thing. i was half expecting rutgers to choose a time today to play, otherwise i would just post some suggestion times if they didnt reply. But apparently they had already taken the forfeit by sunday..
UCR put in a special request to play Monday (something we usually do not allow because it delays the brackets), and we granted an exception as long as both teams could agree to a time and reply IMMEDIATELY.
We received no correspondence from either team for 4 days. Although the email was a group email, it was UCR who specially requested this time and did not follow up. There's no reason why UCR should have expected Rutgers to know if and/or when to play on Monday when neither team responded as to whether they found the reschedule acceptable.
It seems to be a bad case of miscommunication and we're sorry it turned out this way. UCR vs. Rutgers would be a great match. Their 2v2 team has expressed that they will try to make the time later tonight, but either way, the Rutgers students are well within their rights to claim a forfeit win.
Yeah I assume that they were just waiting for you to choose the time since they would have been fine with playing on Sunday and you needed the reschedule.
What I don't understand is why CSL wants to have their playoffs decided by walkovers....
Pitt contacted the coordinator of another school ahead of time and asked to reschedule specific matches. The coordinator accepted. The player of the other school did not accept, and emailed the csl admin that both parties agreed to a walk over which was a lie backed up by chat log screenshots. The csl admin gave a walk over to that school when there was proof that they agreed to a reschedule and wanted to reschedule. Pitt lost for this reason and only this reason.
On December 18 2012 13:27 TyrionSC2 wrote: What I don't understand is why CSL wants to have their playoffs decided by walkovers.... The league is so pathetic this year.
Meh. CSL needs to fix a lot but assuming UCR was the team that needed to reschedule, if they didn't ask for a specific time or anything and nothing was agreed on, it doesn't seem unreasonable.
Edit: Still hoping to figure out how the prizes are supposed to work with 2 playoff divisions (and an mia Asia)
Will payout to Ro16 for Europe and USA get 500$, etc. down to grand finals?
Or will it be something like Ro16 = Ro8 US/EU (doesn't seem right considering proportions of entered teams), Ro8 = Ro4 US/EU, and Ro4 = Ro2 US/EU, but then how do you determine third place match? So confusing >.<
lesson for all schools - always take your forfeit wins. it doesnt matter if there is a chance to actually play starcraft, because it is not about starcraft it is about finding ways not to play starcraft.
On December 19 2012 09:53 JiYan wrote: lesson for all schools - always take your forfeit wins. it doesnt matter if there is a chance to actually play starcraft, because it is not about starcraft it is about finding ways not to play starcraft.
well you certainly sound incredibly bitter over people following rules. it's like you've never heard of a person taking a walkover before.
I play on CSL and had a simple suggestion. Drastically decrease the prize pool, and spend the money on improving the league elsewhere. Like, web development, helping cosponsor LANs, whatever. I don't think most people involved in the CSL do it for the prize pool, so it seems like a pretty wasted incentive. And given that most people watch the CSL to follow their school, even if this prize pool did encourage a very few teams to practice harder and thus show marginally better games, it isn't as though that would help CSL get substantially more viewership or involvement anyways. I know it's a trope in Starcraft 2 tourneys that the prize pool is why you play, but that really is not the case in college team competitions -- you play in order to win for your school. So it seems lie a pretty big mis-allocation of resources which sort of ignores the fact that this is the Collegiate Starleague, not just any league."
e: Also I'm curious what percentage of playoff games were decided by walkovers/substitutions. Not necessarily CSL's fault if people aren't prioritizing making match times though.
On December 19 2012 11:40 applepielon wrote: From an email I sent: "Hey,
I play on CSL and had a simple suggestion. Drastically decrease the prize pool, and spend the money on improving the league elsewhere. Like, web development, helping cosponsor LANs, whatever. I don't think most people involved in the CSL do it for the prize pool, so it seems like a pretty wasted incentive. And given that most people watch the CSL to follow their school, even if this prize pool did encourage a very few teams to practice harder and thus show marginally better games, it isn't as though that would help CSL get substantially more viewership or involvement anyways. I know it's a trope in Starcraft 2 tourneys that the prize pool is why you play, but that really is not the case in college team competitions -- you play in order to win for your school. So it seems lie a pretty big mis-allocation of resources which sort of ignores the fact that this is the Collegiate Starleague, not just any league."
e: Also I'm curious what percentage of playoff games were decided by walkovers/substitutions. Not necessarily CSL's fault if people aren't prioritizing making match times though.
I think the large prize pool is due to sponsors/growth on the corporate side and getting a name really. I'm still a much bigger fan of taking some off the top and making it like 20K,15K,10K,5K, and then splitting the remaining 25K to make Ro8 and Ro16 have better prizes, so that more people "benefit." Would seem more community-y with more people getting a meaningful prize than lumping half of it with first place. This isn't GSL, and college kids don't need 6k a piece from SC2 (although it'd be nice).
That's another decent idea though. It couldn't take a lot to dedicate some time to developing the website.
Don't worry everyone, we are working on people's suggestions!
Also. Afaik, this is the 2nd season in a row UCR has had issues like this in the playoffs. Not trying to point fingers or anything here, but you all know the schedule months in advance, make sure your team can play at the set time and you won't have problems. It's literally as simple as that.
I played 3 seasons of CSL and been a coordinator. I've never once had a problem having my teams show up, or showing up on time myself to play matches. Players can hardly blame the league if their teams or other players don't prioritize the matches. There have been many problems with the league this season, but please at least be fair with what you do or don't blame on the league. Players not showing up on time is not the fault of the league.
Things that are our fault we will be fixing and working hard to make sure next season is awesome!
On December 19 2012 09:53 JiYan wrote: lesson for all schools - always take your forfeit wins. it doesnt matter if there is a chance to actually play starcraft, because it is not about starcraft it is about finding ways not to play starcraft.
UCSD here rolling on the floor laughing at the irony of the situation. We already learned that from you guys last season but alas CSL rules GOTTA BE FOLLOWED.
i know this is way off topic, but I was wondering if we have another csl season this year? This is my senior year, and im not sure whether to practice anymore, since ill be graduating and going to a no name grad school.
On December 19 2012 17:52 Xeris wrote: Not trying to point fingers or anything here, but you all know the schedule months in advance, make sure your team can play at the set time and you won't have problems. It's literally as simple as that.
I played 3 seasons of CSL and been a coordinator. I've never once had a problem having my teams show up, or showing up on time myself to play matches. Players can hardly blame the league if their teams or other players don't prioritize the matches. There have been many problems with the league this season, but please at least be fair with what you do or don't blame on the league. Players not showing up on time is not the fault of the league.
Things that are our fault we will be fixing and working hard to make sure next season is awesome!
I'm sorry, but this is bullshit. I would have agreed last year, but this year, nope.
The league has changed schedules repeatedly this season, including THE ENTIRE FORMAT, AFTER IT WAS SUPPOSED TO START. You CANNOT claim that teams had months of advance notice, or that they aren't prioritizing a tournament that is changing its schedule, rushing, and putting the playoffs in the middle of most school's exams, with little flexibility or accommodation. Should teams still be able to make matches? Yes, of course. Does that make it solely the teams fault? Absolutely not.
On December 19 2012 17:52 Xeris wrote: Don't worry everyone, we are working on people's suggestions!
Also. Afaik, this is the 2nd season in a row UCR has had issues like this in the playoffs. Not trying to point fingers or anything here, but you all know the schedule months in advance, make sure your team can play at the set time and you won't have problems. It's literally as simple as that.
I played 3 seasons of CSL and been a coordinator. I've never once had a problem having my teams show up, or showing up on time myself to play matches. Players can hardly blame the league if their teams or other players don't prioritize the matches. There have been many problems with the league this season, but please at least be fair with what you do or don't blame on the league. Players not showing up on time is not the fault of the league.
Things that are our fault we will be fixing and working hard to make sure next season is awesome!
So things like scheduling playoffs during finals week won't happen again? Cuz I seem to remember you having matches played during finals last year. And though I wasn't there, I'm pretty sure you did the same thing the year before that. I feel like this has been complained about every year and still you let it happen. You might not think it's a big deal, but there is no way I will ever prioritize Starcraft over my grades which will end up affecting my life. We absolutely can blame the league for putting our players in the situation of having to choose between practicing and studying as their priorities.
On December 19 2012 17:52 Xeris wrote: Don't worry everyone, we are working on people's suggestions!
Also. Afaik, this is the 2nd season in a row UCR has had issues like this in the playoffs. Not trying to point fingers or anything here, but you all know the schedule months in advance, make sure your team can play at the set time and you won't have problems. It's literally as simple as that.
I played 3 seasons of CSL and been a coordinator. I've never once had a problem having my teams show up, or showing up on time myself to play matches. Players can hardly blame the league if their teams or other players don't prioritize the matches. There have been many problems with the league this season, but please at least be fair with what you do or don't blame on the league. Players not showing up on time is not the fault of the league.
Things that are our fault we will be fixing and working hard to make sure next season is awesome!
So things like scheduling playoffs during finals week won't happen again? Cuz I seem to remember you having matches played during finals last year. And though I wasn't there, I'm pretty sure you did the same thing the year before that. I feel like this has been complained about every year and still you let it happen. You might not think it's a big deal, but there is no way I will ever prioritize Starcraft over my grades which will end up affecting my life. We absolutely can blame the league for putting our players in the situation of having to choose between practicing and studying as their priorities.
I don't believe I said anything about not scheduling matches during finals - generally speaking it's pretty unavoidable. Either the season has to finish way before finals, or during summer. Whether we do 2 seasons in a year or 1, we won't be able to avoid every big date for school.
On December 19 2012 19:56 Polar_Nada wrote: i know this is way off topic, but I was wondering if we have another csl season this year? This is my senior year, and im not sure whether to practice anymore, since ill be graduating and going to a no name grad school.
it's been stated numerous times that there will be another season this year. the point of a shorter season was to have 2 season in a year.
On December 19 2012 17:52 Xeris wrote: Don't worry everyone, we are working on people's suggestions!
Also. Afaik, this is the 2nd season in a row UCR has had issues like this in the playoffs. Not trying to point fingers or anything here, but you all know the schedule months in advance, make sure your team can play at the set time and you won't have problems. It's literally as simple as that.
I played 3 seasons of CSL and been a coordinator. I've never once had a problem having my teams show up, or showing up on time myself to play matches. Players can hardly blame the league if their teams or other players don't prioritize the matches. There have been many problems with the league this season, but please at least be fair with what you do or don't blame on the league. Players not showing up on time is not the fault of the league.
Things that are our fault we will be fixing and working hard to make sure next season is awesome!
So things like scheduling playoffs during finals week won't happen again? Cuz I seem to remember you having matches played during finals last year. And though I wasn't there, I'm pretty sure you did the same thing the year before that. I feel like this has been complained about every year and still you let it happen. You might not think it's a big deal, but there is no way I will ever prioritize Starcraft over my grades which will end up affecting my life. We absolutely can blame the league for putting our players in the situation of having to choose between practicing and studying as their priorities.
I don't believe I said anything about not scheduling matches during finals - generally speaking it's pretty unavoidable. Either the season has to finish way before finals, or during summer. Whether we do 2 seasons in a year or 1, we won't be able to avoid every big date for school.
Hey Xeris, quoting myself here:
Edit: Still hoping to figure out how the prizes are supposed to work with 2 playoff divisions (and an mia Asia)
Will payout to Ro16 for Europe and USA get 500$, etc. down to grand finals?
Or will it be something like Ro16 = Ro8 US/EU (doesn't seem right considering proportions of entered teams), Ro8 = Ro4 US/EU, and Ro4 = Ro2 US/EU, but then how do you determine third place match? So confusing >.<
A lot of people I know (at my team and some friends at other colleges) are wondering this. I've asked several times and no answer >.< does CSL even know how prizes are working?
On December 19 2012 19:56 Polar_Nada wrote: i know this is way off topic, but I was wondering if we have another csl season this year? This is my senior year, and im not sure whether to practice anymore, since ill be graduating and going to a no name grad school.
it's been stated numerous times that there will be another season this year. the point of a shorter season was to have 2 season in a year.
Ok thanks shindigs. I did remember hearing about it, but i just needed clarification!