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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 09 2011 02:22 Marzocchi wrote:I'm still trying to figure out what Idra posted on these TL Forums that would result in his ban. Had he said something directly on www.TeamLiquid.net Chill and the other mods should have put it in their note saying he got banned. As their own Tyler made clear on SOTG, they need to be telling both sides of the story, ala: Idra did/said/posted XYZ (specifics) on www.TeamLiquid.com NOT on Justin/Twitter/another media we control. As a result we chose to ban him. More people are upset because they see Chill banning Idra for something he did on Justin, the Ladder or Twitter. NOT on a TL operated site. Surely Chill/TeamLiquid do not believe they control Justin.tv, Twitter or any other non-team-liquid associated website or media. Yes it may have been dumb for Idra to send people from Twitter to TeamLiquid to spam Chill... but he did this only after being banned by Chill. I could understand the ban resulting from sending people to a TL controlled media preemptively, but this isn't the case. Then, HotBid came out and said if they could find definitive proof of Cruncher "cheating" on the ladder/stream they would take action. My question is - what action could they possibly take within their jurisdiction for something that happens/occurs on Battle.net - a media they do not control, operate or have affiliations with. Banning Cruncher for cheating on the ladder would be just as bad as banning Idra for something he said on Twitter or Justin.tv
I agree with this. Why in the world does tl.net control members how they act outside their territory? Banning cruncher for stream cheating would be just as bad.
The moderators of this community has become too subjective and bans people way too much because of opinions they don't agree on, or people criticizing another person, especially against moderators themselves. Yes, they may be subjective to their own likings, and they decide how their community should be moderated, but in my own opinion I think it's too strict and I would like it to be less so, for making a better tl.net.
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I've seen numerous posts by Chill, and I have to say he is somewhat disrespectful himself as well.
I understand that controlling 10,000+ people to behave is tough, but you shouldn't treat someone as if they're some worthless human being on earth.
We are the reason why Teamliquid.net is here. Don't forget that.
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Oh, Idra...you do amuse sometimes. Honestly, though, this was coming eventually.
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The people white-knighting Idra need to step back and see how this reflects on SC2 and esports in general. There's a place for some friendly banter/trash-talking, but we are talking a habitual line-stepper. Yes, that's a Chappelle Show reference. Idra then encouraging his twitter followers to PM bomb the mods is really poor judgement as well.
As for EG/Liquid drama...let's just save that for the SOTG thread please, that isn't relevant here.
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Just please keep the stream under featured streams at the side. I only really watch Idra and Artosis and I dont want to have to pick through unfeatured streams.
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On May 08 2011 19:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 19:39 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:36 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:28 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:24 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:21 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:19 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:16 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:13 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:10 habeck wrote:
WHy Chill banned Idra FOr two days? I couldn't find the info Idra called Cruncher a waste of life because he suspected Cruncher of watching his stream while they played. Chill 2 dayed him for it. Idra backed out of some streaming he said he was going to do and told people that if they were disappointed they should pm Chill about it because it was somehow Chill's fault. Nazgul 90 dayed Idra for encouraging the harassment of tl staff. Usually when someone bans you, it is their fault. There is no connection between Idra's ability to stream and the stream on teamliquid. The only time Idra's stream has been taken off teamliquid is when Idra contacted Hot_Bid while banned and requested that it was removed. Teamliquid simply embeds the stream, it is hosted and streamed elsewhere. There is absolutely no reason why Idra couldn't stream while banned. Exactly. He could stream. He didn't say otherwise anywhere at any one point or time. He just refused to stream because he felt his ban was a joke. He's telling people to contact the person who banned him, the responsible party for the situation. TL banned Idra causing the current event. How is Chill the responsible party for Idra deciding not to stream when the stream is in no way related to teamliquid? He's a grown man, he's responsible for his own decisions. Unless i'm wrong the stream was Hosted and sponsored by TL right? They had ads on his stream i believe. Refusing to stream is basically a protest to his ban. Nothing more. Still doesn't change the fact that people are lying. He didn't say he couldn't stream. True he is a grown man, however he's responsible for someone else's interpretation or version of Idra's decisions. He didn't do anything that you're claiming he did. For a purely neutral standpoint the ban is based off of what a Mod thinks he meant. disclaimer: this is to the best of my inside knowledge but if it is in any way inaccurate then I apologise The stream is not hosted on tl, it is on justin.tv or something. teamliquid is in no way affiliated with the stream and has no control over it. The stream is not sponsored by tl, tl does not endorse it nor gain any ad revenue from it save from the ads that appear on every tl page, stream or no. The ads on his stream provide revenue for Idra, not tl. He is a partner (or whatever they call it) with whatever streaming service he uses, he plays ads and they send him $. teamliquid is in no way involved in this relationship. Refusing to stream is his right but that doesn't mean that the two things are connected. It is absolutely unacceptable for a member of this forum to encourage the spamming of a moderator with protest pms. Fair enough, I was under the impression that TL sponsored the stream. Regardless, i don't understand why it's unacceptable for a large number of people to protest a ban if they feel that the community they are participating in made an extremely bad decision. Chill is a moderator right? Can't he handle a little critism of his moderation? We have a website feedback forum here. Idra has been here for years, he knows this. Idra also knows he has an army of barely literate 12 year olds at his command (I've read a lot of the PMs Chill got, you'd be amazed) who don't fully understand how cause and effect works.This forum should be a pleasant place for starcraft fans to interact. Chill was doing his duty by handing Idra a slap on the wrist (again the 2 day was incredibly lenient). It was not anything personal and if Idra had a problem with it then it was a problem with the rules of the site, not with the staff member who volunteers their time to enforce them. Idra did not say "I think the rules of teamliquid are too strict and you guys should debate them in the website feedback forum". He said, and I paraphrase, "I'm going to fuck over you idiots and it is in some way this guys fault, ps: don't look into whether I actually broke the rules, just send him any venom you have lying around". I like this site as it is. Many people do not and they are welcome to suggest improvements or to go to one of our rivals. That is their choice. However this is still our site and we do not deserve abuse for upholding the standards that make this site the place I love.
Sorry but how can this not be rated an insult to idra and why does he get a two day ban and you then dont?  just kidding but also kind of trying to make a point :D
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On May 09 2011 03:21 Tianx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 03:12 FinBenton wrote:
So you ban the most famous SC2 name who has most fans, most viewers and always speaks the truth that other people are shy to say? Nice. I'd rather have a small community of intelligent and respectful posters than a massive cesspool of idiots. There are other options than TL, Battle.net forums will always be there.
Yep, pretty much this. And seriously, people think either SC2\Blizzard\TL needs idra?
He is a good player and all but he needs to grow up and manner up.I'd say that the admins are being too lax on him because of who he is.
This reminds of when CliffyB was banned from GAF. It doesn't matter who you are, if you are going to trash the forum you are going to get banned
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is awesome32269 Posts
On May 09 2011 03:27 Elthreann wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 19:48 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:39 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:36 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:28 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:24 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:21 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:19 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:16 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:13 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Idra called Cruncher a waste of life because he suspected Cruncher of watching his stream while they played. Chill 2 dayed him for it. Idra backed out of some streaming he said he was going to do and told people that if they were disappointed they should pm Chill about it because it was somehow Chill's fault. Nazgul 90 dayed Idra for encouraging the harassment of tl staff. Usually when someone bans you, it is their fault. There is no connection between Idra's ability to stream and the stream on teamliquid. The only time Idra's stream has been taken off teamliquid is when Idra contacted Hot_Bid while banned and requested that it was removed. Teamliquid simply embeds the stream, it is hosted and streamed elsewhere. There is absolutely no reason why Idra couldn't stream while banned. Exactly. He could stream. He didn't say otherwise anywhere at any one point or time. He just refused to stream because he felt his ban was a joke. He's telling people to contact the person who banned him, the responsible party for the situation. TL banned Idra causing the current event. How is Chill the responsible party for Idra deciding not to stream when the stream is in no way related to teamliquid? He's a grown man, he's responsible for his own decisions. Unless i'm wrong the stream was Hosted and sponsored by TL right? They had ads on his stream i believe. Refusing to stream is basically a protest to his ban. Nothing more. Still doesn't change the fact that people are lying. He didn't say he couldn't stream. True he is a grown man, however he's responsible for someone else's interpretation or version of Idra's decisions. He didn't do anything that you're claiming he did. For a purely neutral standpoint the ban is based off of what a Mod thinks he meant. disclaimer: this is to the best of my inside knowledge but if it is in any way inaccurate then I apologise The stream is not hosted on tl, it is on justin.tv or something. teamliquid is in no way affiliated with the stream and has no control over it. The stream is not sponsored by tl, tl does not endorse it nor gain any ad revenue from it save from the ads that appear on every tl page, stream or no. The ads on his stream provide revenue for Idra, not tl. He is a partner (or whatever they call it) with whatever streaming service he uses, he plays ads and they send him $. teamliquid is in no way involved in this relationship. Refusing to stream is his right but that doesn't mean that the two things are connected. It is absolutely unacceptable for a member of this forum to encourage the spamming of a moderator with protest pms. Fair enough, I was under the impression that TL sponsored the stream. Regardless, i don't understand why it's unacceptable for a large number of people to protest a ban if they feel that the community they are participating in made an extremely bad decision. Chill is a moderator right? Can't he handle a little critism of his moderation? We have a website feedback forum here. Idra has been here for years, he knows this. Idra also knows he has an army of barely literate 12 year olds at his command (I've read a lot of the PMs Chill got, you'd be amazed) who don't fully understand how cause and effect works.This forum should be a pleasant place for starcraft fans to interact. Chill was doing his duty by handing Idra a slap on the wrist (again the 2 day was incredibly lenient). It was not anything personal and if Idra had a problem with it then it was a problem with the rules of the site, not with the staff member who volunteers their time to enforce them. Idra did not say "I think the rules of teamliquid are too strict and you guys should debate them in the website feedback forum". He said, and I paraphrase, "I'm going to fuck over you idiots and it is in some way this guys fault, ps: don't look into whether I actually broke the rules, just send him any venom you have lying around". I like this site as it is. Many people do not and they are welcome to suggest improvements or to go to one of our rivals. That is their choice. However this is still our site and we do not deserve abuse for upholding the standards that make this site the place I love. Sorry but how can this not be rated an insult to idra and why does he get a two day ban and you then dont? just kidding but also kind of trying to make a point :D
Because I that's how the PMs looked like.
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On May 09 2011 03:28 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 03:27 Elthreann wrote:On May 08 2011 19:48 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:39 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:36 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:28 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:24 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:21 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:19 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:16 Tornadium wrote:
[quote]
Usually when someone bans you, it is their fault. There is no connection between Idra's ability to stream and the stream on teamliquid. The only time Idra's stream has been taken off teamliquid is when Idra contacted Hot_Bid while banned and requested that it was removed. Teamliquid simply embeds the stream, it is hosted and streamed elsewhere. There is absolutely no reason why Idra couldn't stream while banned. Exactly. He could stream. He didn't say otherwise anywhere at any one point or time. He just refused to stream because he felt his ban was a joke. He's telling people to contact the person who banned him, the responsible party for the situation. TL banned Idra causing the current event. How is Chill the responsible party for Idra deciding not to stream when the stream is in no way related to teamliquid? He's a grown man, he's responsible for his own decisions. Unless i'm wrong the stream was Hosted and sponsored by TL right? They had ads on his stream i believe. Refusing to stream is basically a protest to his ban. Nothing more. Still doesn't change the fact that people are lying. He didn't say he couldn't stream. True he is a grown man, however he's responsible for someone else's interpretation or version of Idra's decisions. He didn't do anything that you're claiming he did. For a purely neutral standpoint the ban is based off of what a Mod thinks he meant. disclaimer: this is to the best of my inside knowledge but if it is in any way inaccurate then I apologise The stream is not hosted on tl, it is on justin.tv or something. teamliquid is in no way affiliated with the stream and has no control over it. The stream is not sponsored by tl, tl does not endorse it nor gain any ad revenue from it save from the ads that appear on every tl page, stream or no. The ads on his stream provide revenue for Idra, not tl. He is a partner (or whatever they call it) with whatever streaming service he uses, he plays ads and they send him $. teamliquid is in no way involved in this relationship. Refusing to stream is his right but that doesn't mean that the two things are connected. It is absolutely unacceptable for a member of this forum to encourage the spamming of a moderator with protest pms. Fair enough, I was under the impression that TL sponsored the stream. Regardless, i don't understand why it's unacceptable for a large number of people to protest a ban if they feel that the community they are participating in made an extremely bad decision. Chill is a moderator right? Can't he handle a little critism of his moderation? We have a website feedback forum here. Idra has been here for years, he knows this. Idra also knows he has an army of barely literate 12 year olds at his command (I've read a lot of the PMs Chill got, you'd be amazed) who don't fully understand how cause and effect works.This forum should be a pleasant place for starcraft fans to interact. Chill was doing his duty by handing Idra a slap on the wrist (again the 2 day was incredibly lenient). It was not anything personal and if Idra had a problem with it then it was a problem with the rules of the site, not with the staff member who volunteers their time to enforce them. Idra did not say "I think the rules of teamliquid are too strict and you guys should debate them in the website feedback forum". He said, and I paraphrase, "I'm going to fuck over you idiots and it is in some way this guys fault, ps: don't look into whether I actually broke the rules, just send him any venom you have lying around". I like this site as it is. Many people do not and they are welcome to suggest improvements or to go to one of our rivals. That is their choice. However this is still our site and we do not deserve abuse for upholding the standards that make this site the place I love. Sorry but how can this not be rated an insult to idra and why does he get a two day ban and you then dont? just kidding but also kind of trying to make a point :D Because I that's how the PMs looked like.
So if I read a post that looks like that, can I make that statement and not get banned?
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Haha love Idra. He should get a medal! Not a ban...
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I don't get some people in this thread,
If you don't like teamliquid then why do you bother posting here?
Just go somewhere else if you just don't agree with the moderation, I know multiple people who think that TL is just to strict, and they just don't post here.
No one is forcing you to post there, if you just want to benefit from things as the TL calendar etc, then just use that and stay away from the forums.
And from my personal view, and I guess a lot of people, since TL has grown a lot.
What is the problem with the moderation here?
You just can't go around throwing insults, trolling people, and making stupid posts.
What is bad about that?
Over the years I have been on multiple forums, and once you open those gates to trolling, etc the whole forum just starts to degenerate into a large cesspool of stupid topics/posts.
And it's not like I am such an angel, I have been permbanned once because of childish behaviour, but I apologised to a TL mod and I got unbanned.
From my personal experience, TL mods are very forgiving, and it's not like you have to lick their heels, the only thing you have to do is step up your level of posting, and just not be a douche towards other people.
It took like a 2 minute conversation with R1CH (i think it was him) to get myself unbanned.
And that is where Idra has stepped over the line again and again, if he was anyone else here he would have been permbanned a long time ago.
People who say that his message on twitter wasn't to harass chill, that is just naïve, Idra is a smart guy, he knows how the internet works and how his fans are, even if it wasn't his intention, everyone knows how it was gonna turn out.
And then Idra not wanting to actually step up his posting, I would personally say that the 90 day ban is completely his fault.
Oh and before you go about ranting about mods, remember that those are people who do it completely for free.
Can you even imagine with the amount of posts/threads that get posted here worthy of a ban/removal that they have to go trough on a day to day basis?
And those guys are putting in those hours for basicly nothing, so atleast have some respect for that.
And if you don't agree with them, actually try to explain it in a decent way.
Don't go "god TL mod are fags, just banning everyone who doesn't agree",
but actually try to explain your reasoning in a decent way, just as you would in real life.
It's almost like people by now have this sort of idea in their head that because it's the internet it's okay to insult people, throw names, etc.
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On May 09 2011 03:16 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 03:14 MrBoysen wrote:On May 08 2011 06:55 Seraphic wrote:
heh, oh please. Just because your a pro and have fans. It doesn't mean you can get away with harassment.
Grow up, maybe then people will actually like you more. Well I for one like IdrA because he speaks his mind.. If you don't like it just ignore it, it's not that hard.. Yes, because ignoring idra's tweet somehow makes the hundreds of pms in chills inbox disappear, right? It's a dumb thing to say anyways here. There are rules here. EVERYONE is supposed to follow them.
Well, the tweet accident happened AFTER his ban, right? So actually yeah, we would have avoid those hundreds of messages  But i agree on the big picture, dont know why he keeps this up, maybe he is addicted to the forums and wants a forced break or idk. Great player, great mind, great words, but sometimes seems like he provokes people... he wouldnt have to have to prove anything.
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It's really hilarious to me that people are quick to say 'Idra needs to grow up' while the TL mods play 'King of the big internet sandbox'. TL's endless failure to accept the fact that the internet will indeed BE the internet never ceases to entertain me. If idra and thousands of his fanboys want to harass someone, they can, and will. They do not need a TL forum to do so. Ban him permanently if you REALLY want him off of your website. Why settle for a mere 90 say 'spanking' ? Shitty mod parenting if you ask me.
My ending statement: If idra gets hundreds of people to troll you, you get trolled. Because he is idra, and you are not. Accept facts of life please.
User was warned for this post
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all i have to say is i was a happy man when i read the title of the thread
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On May 09 2011 03:27 mav451 wrote:
The people white-knighting Idra need to step back and see how this reflects on SC2 and esports in general. There's a place for some friendly banter/trash-talking, but we are talking a habitual line-stepper. Yes, that's a Chappelle Show reference. Idra then encouraging his twitter followers to PM bomb the mods is really poor judgement as well.
As for EG/Liquid drama...let's just save that for the SOTG thread please, that isn't relevant here.
of course its relevant.........theres alot of tension between these top top SC2 clans, and then probably the most famous member of one of these teams, is banned from the other teams forum.....hmmmm....
i used to be a moderator on GR.org - dont think its quite as big as TL.net as it was only for the BFME section - you cant let your ego get in the way. Yea he might have power over 30,000 people, but you still have to act responsibly and not abuse that power
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On May 09 2011 03:16 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 03:14 MrBoysen wrote:On May 08 2011 06:55 Seraphic wrote:
heh, oh please. Just because your a pro and have fans. It doesn't mean you can get away with harassment.
Grow up, maybe then people will actually like you more. Well I for one like IdrA because he speaks his mind.. If you don't like it just ignore it, it's not that hard.. Yes, because ignoring idra's tweet somehow makes the hundreds of pms in chills inbox disappear, right? It's a dumb thing to say anyways here. There are rules here. EVERYONE is supposed to follow them.
Everyone except the gods.. uhm sry I meant mods.
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[B]
Cruncher who is obviously no where near as good as idra,
That is a tiny bit hard to imagine when you think about Cruncher won
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On May 08 2011 06:59 Artimo wrote:
I wonder if EG sponsors have an opinion about Idra's behavior. sure a little BM is fine. but what Idra does reflects on the sponsors as well. I cant imagine them being very happy with this continued behavior.
You could say the exact same thing about Team Liquid's sponsors, as Tyler recently embarrassed both the team and the community with his actions/words.
It's unfair to see Team Liquid's own members getting away with BMing entire tournaments/teams with no repercussion. It also sets a bad example for the whole community. If the 90 ban was to set an example, all you've done is satisfy the people who've manipulated him and upset his fans. Just because he didn't apologize for what happened to Chill doesn't mean he deserves a 90 day ban. You should also note that as of yet, he hasn't posted anything in response to this 90 day ban. Whether his attitude is appreciated or not, he still contributes and inspires a mass of the community. I hope they reconsider this lengthy ban.
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On May 09 2011 03:30 Moldwood wrote:
It's really hilarious to me that people are quick to say 'Idra needs to grow up' while the TL mods play 'King of the big internet sandbox'. TL's endless failure to accept the fact that the internet will indeed BE the internet never ceases to entertain me. If idra and thousands of his fanboys want to harass someone, they can, and will. They do not need a TL forum to do so. Ban him permanently if you REALLY want him off of your website. Why settle for a mere 90 say 'spanking' ? Shitty mod parenting if you ask me.
My ending statement: If idra gets hundreds of people to troll you, you get trolled. Because he is idra, and you are not. Accept facts of life please.
He doesn't get banned permanently because if he does he can't compete in the TSL
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i wonder if Idra has something to do with these unstable servers.
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EPT
