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Don't post in this thread to say "gay gamers are like everyone else, why do they have a special thread?" It is something that has been posted numerous times, and this isn't the place for that discussion.
For regular posters, don't quote the trolls. |
On December 14 2011 16:13 Lex[G] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 12:10 jarrydesque wrote:Oy oy. I think Kennigit would be preferable - I'm too skinny xD. Come on Kennigit! For justice! For ESPORTS. FOR KLONDI'S BROKEN HEART! Here is me being silly in the meantime. + Show Spoiler + you are very cute 
You're going to make him blush (keep going hes probably even cuter when he blushes).
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damn you guys are all so cute. T___T;; where are all the cute starcraft loving boys in my area? D:
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On December 14 2011 16:39 GDR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 16:13 Lex[G] wrote:On December 14 2011 12:10 jarrydesque wrote:Oy oy. I think Kennigit would be preferable - I'm too skinny xD. Come on Kennigit! For justice! For ESPORTS. FOR KLONDI'S BROKEN HEART! Here is me being silly in the meantime. + Show Spoiler + you are very cute You're going to make him blush (keep going hes probably even cuter when he blushes).
I hope so lol
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T
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On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T
Girls are dumb. That's why we don't like them.
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On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T
I honestly wasn't expecting a response to their pleas xD
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On December 14 2011 12:27 GDR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 12:10 jarrydesque wrote:Oy oy. I think Kennigit would be preferable - I'm too skinny xD. Come on Kennigit! For justice! For ESPORTS. FOR KLONDI'S BROKEN HEART! Here is me being silly in the meantime. + Show Spoiler + I like your purse. 
It's a European carry-all!
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On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T
Kenny is such a tease.
Also, he is like superman. You need only whisper his name on TL and he shall appear.
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On December 14 2011 09:02 Catreina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:35 Gnight wrote:Don't take this the wrong way dear, but... *shrug*. I saw you as a female sc2 gamer who holds a sexual interest into other women before reading through that thread. Nothing has changed after reading through that thread. You are still a woman, you are still a sc2 gamer and you still have a sexual interest into other women. There's nothing in that thread for which you had to warn me for or that holds any shock factor to me. I know you did it with good intention, it shows you are kind hearted (at least to me... >.<) and there's nothing wrong with showing that. ^ ^ So please don't feel like I am blaming you for anything here. Want to ask something out of curiousity here, do you and your wife have a child or ever thought about getting one? Interested in this because of your lesbian relationship, but if the question is too personal then my apologies beforehand for asking it. So don't feel the need to answer this question at all if you don't want too, it's completely up to you. Also, you are of course free to ask me anything if you feel like knowing something. xD lol - I am as open and honest about myself as I ever have been. The -main- reason for the stuff in that thread was because one person thought it was his responsibility and right to "out" me to the community. Since then I have said "fuck it" and my life has nothing to hide, at all, ever. Leigh (my wife) and I have 3 children together, biologically, and I have a fourth (my oldest) from a prior relationship. They range in age from 6 (Marissa) to 16 (Amber). We have best friends, close enough that I have been in wedding ceremonies directly. I have identified as lesbian for as long as I can remember being attracted to anyone. I have identified as female for even longer. I hold no reservations about who or what I am, and even though I have my own little nickname for certain people who forced this information's propagation, it has made me less concerned about how I am viewed and more concerned about how I react. As an aside, I may not be interested in guys, but I certainly can say who I think is hot - and HeRo is certainly a hottie.
Of course, of course, but even if you are open and honest about yourself, it doesn't mean I shouldn't respect your privacy. ^ ^
And everyone has their secrets, everyone dear.. ;p
Four kids, that is quite a bit, honestly said more then I expected, which I feel rather bad about. >.<
Here is another, perhaps a odd, question.
Do all your children refer to both you and Leigh as their mother?
With this I mean wheter your children call you and Leigh mother when they, well, need either of you two to help them with something or do something for them or have something to ask. Or, because it may get confusing with two mothers, do they always use your first name for this?
Again, no need to answer this if you don't feel like it. Just curious as to how this goes, as I may know quite a few gay men (some of them are friends), I barely know any gay women, let alone one who is in a relationship and has children. So hence me asking this to you, hope you don't mind. ^ ^
Also, Puma > Hero in cuteness. >.>
On December 14 2011 21:36 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T Girls are dumb. That's why we don't like them.
Well... thanks?
Anyways, about your friend, if you want to let you being gay stand in between a 10 year old friendship, then be my guest, it's your life, your choice. I have nothing to say over it nor any control over it. The same applies to your friend btw. xD
So, why do you want to be accepted by her for what you are?
Was she your friend because she is a girl?
Was she her friend because she is straight?
Was she her friend because she is religious?
Was she your friend because of her skin colour?
Was she your friend because of her height? Her weight?
Highly doubt that any of those really mattered to you and aren't the reasons for her being your friend at all. No, you were her friend because of who she is, not of what she is. So should she be or not be your friend because you are gay?
If you want to keep her as a friend then stop trying to get her to accept for what you are and start trying to get her to accept for who you are. It doesn't matter that she believes being gay is a choice, because being gay doesn't define who you are (unless you are so stupid enough to let it define you) and it hasn't changed who you are either. You are still you, nothing less and nothing more.
None of my friends are my friends because I am a vegetarian, or because I am gay or because I am a atheist, they are my friends because of who I am. It's that simple. Some of them don't like me being a vegetarian, gay or a atheist, but they are still my friends, because they like me for who I am and we both know that is what really matters. Not wheter I am religious or not, not of who I sleep with at night, not for what I eat and what not. One should like a person for who they are!
You were her friend for who she was and she was your friend for who you are, go back to that and you may find yourself with her back on your side as your friend.
Sure, she may still not want to stay your friend because you are gay or you don't want to stay a friend to her after all this, but if that's the case then it's not your fault nor hers. She is who she is and you are who you are. There's nothing more to it then that.
That's all I can say about it, hopefully you didn't take any offense from anything I said. I have no intention here to offend or insult anyone.... even though you called me stupid. *sniff* ;p
Anyways, hope it may help you one way or another and just like everyone else pretty much said, you still got support here. Though you may need to lay of the girl insults if you want to keep mine support.......... xD
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 23:27 Gnight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:02 Catreina wrote:On December 14 2011 05:35 Gnight wrote:Don't take this the wrong way dear, but... *shrug*. I saw you as a female sc2 gamer who holds a sexual interest into other women before reading through that thread. Nothing has changed after reading through that thread. You are still a woman, you are still a sc2 gamer and you still have a sexual interest into other women. There's nothing in that thread for which you had to warn me for or that holds any shock factor to me. I know you did it with good intention, it shows you are kind hearted (at least to me... >.<) and there's nothing wrong with showing that. ^ ^ So please don't feel like I am blaming you for anything here. Want to ask something out of curiousity here, do you and your wife have a child or ever thought about getting one? Interested in this because of your lesbian relationship, but if the question is too personal then my apologies beforehand for asking it. So don't feel the need to answer this question at all if you don't want too, it's completely up to you. Also, you are of course free to ask me anything if you feel like knowing something. xD lol - I am as open and honest about myself as I ever have been. The -main- reason for the stuff in that thread was because one person thought it was his responsibility and right to "out" me to the community. Since then I have said "fuck it" and my life has nothing to hide, at all, ever. Leigh (my wife) and I have 3 children together, biologically, and I have a fourth (my oldest) from a prior relationship. They range in age from 6 (Marissa) to 16 (Amber). We have best friends, close enough that I have been in wedding ceremonies directly. I have identified as lesbian for as long as I can remember being attracted to anyone. I have identified as female for even longer. I hold no reservations about who or what I am, and even though I have my own little nickname for certain people who forced this information's propagation, it has made me less concerned about how I am viewed and more concerned about how I react. As an aside, I may not be interested in guys, but I certainly can say who I think is hot - and HeRo is certainly a hottie. Of course, of course, but even if you are open and honest about yourself, it doesn't mean I shouldn't respect your privacy. ^ ^ And everyone has their secrets, everyone dear.. ;p Four kids, that is quite a bit, honestly said more then I expected, which I feel rather bad about. >.< Here is another, perhaps a odd, question. Do all your children refer to both you and Leigh as their mother? With this I mean wheter your children call you and Leigh mother when they, well, need either of you two to help them with something or do something for them or have something to ask. Or, because it may get confusing with two mothers, do they always use your first name for this? Again, no need to answer this if you don't feel like it. Just curious as to how this goes, as I may know quite a few gay men (some of them are friends), I barely know any gay women, let alone one who is in a relationship and has children. So hence me asking this to you, hope you don't mind. ^ ^ Also, Puma > Hero in cuteness. >.> Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:36 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T Girls are dumb. That's why we don't like them. Well... thanks? Anyways, about your friend, if you want to let you being gay stand in between a 10 year old friendship, then be my guest, it's your life, your choice. I have nothing to say over it nor any control over it. The same applies to your friend btw. xD So, why do you want to be accepted by her for what you are? Was she your friend because she is a girl? Was she her friend because she is straight? Was she her friend because she is religious? Was she your friend because of her skin colour? Was she your friend because of her height? Her weight? Highly doubt that any of those really mattered to you and aren't the reasons for her being your friend at all. No, you were her friend because of who she is, not of what she is. So should she be or not be your friend because you are gay? If you want to keep her as a friend then stop trying to get her to accept for what you are and start trying to get her to accept for who you are. It doesn't matter that she believes being gay is a choice, because being gay doesn't define who you are (unless you are so stupid enough to let it define you) and it hasn't changed who you are either. You are still you, nothing less and nothing more. None of my friends are my friends because I am a vegetarian, or because I am gay or because I am a atheist, they are my friends because of who I am. It's that simple. Some of them don't like me being a vegetarian, gay or a atheist, but they are still my friends, because they like me for who I am and we both know that is what really matters. Not wheter I am religious or not, not of who I sleep with at night, not for what I eat and what not. One should like a person for who they are! You were her friend for who she was and she was your friend for who you are, go back to that and you may find yourself with her back on your side as your friend. Sure, she may still not want to stay your friend because you are gay or you don't want to stay a friend to her after all this, but if that's the case then it's not your fault nor hers. She is who she is and you are who you are. There's nothing more to it then that. That's all I can say about it, hopefully you didn't take any offense from anything I said. I have no intention here to offend or insult anyone.... even though you called me stupid. *sniff* ;p Anyways, hope it may help you one way or another and just like everyone else pretty much said, you still got support here. Though you may need to lay of the girl insults if you want to keep mine support.......... xD
I needed her to accept me for who I am because the relationship was completely one sided. She wouldn't let me talk about boys, she wouldn't let me meet any of her other friends (or at least she was always anxious about it), she would only go to straight bars where guys would hit on her endlessly but she balked at the idea of going to a gay bar so I could have guys hit on me.
She would whine endlessly about her boy drama but when I had boy drama she would gloss over it and change the subject. Basically she expected me to pretend like I wasn't gay at all around her.
It always got under my skin and I always thought things were one sided but I put up with it because we had been friends for so long and I couldn't really pin down what she was doing and why it bugged me. Then she had one too many glasses of wine and let it slip. All the stuff that had just kinda irritated me now made sense and it wasn't just because of normal friendship friction, it was because for the past 2 years she's secretly thought I was choosing the life of a sinner.
When you believe that something about someone is evil, you're not going to be able to have a good friendship. This whole confrontation was probably inevitable and a long time coming.
I'm also not mad. Just confused at how she can cling to such patently bad logic at the cost of hurting one of her best friends. I get that it's ingrained and hard to let go of but she's had two years and she won't even re-evaluate her position. Her argument was "I have believed this my whole life so I'm not going to change what I think." How am I supposed to deal with that?
P.S. I'm just being a smartass, I love girls.
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On December 14 2011 22:04 TWThoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T I honestly wasn't expecting a response to their pleas xD
I cant believe he did either. I was just wondering how strange the mod discussions must have become 
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On December 15 2011 00:17 RoMGraViTy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:04 TWThoth wrote:On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T I honestly wasn't expecting a response to their pleas xD I cant believe he did either. I was just wondering how strange the mod discussions must have become
Well let's put this idea in their head. TL-Admin sexy speedo contest.
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On December 14 2011 23:56 Klondikebar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 23:27 Gnight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:02 Catreina wrote:On December 14 2011 05:35 Gnight wrote:Don't take this the wrong way dear, but... *shrug*. I saw you as a female sc2 gamer who holds a sexual interest into other women before reading through that thread. Nothing has changed after reading through that thread. You are still a woman, you are still a sc2 gamer and you still have a sexual interest into other women. There's nothing in that thread for which you had to warn me for or that holds any shock factor to me. I know you did it with good intention, it shows you are kind hearted (at least to me... >.<) and there's nothing wrong with showing that. ^ ^ So please don't feel like I am blaming you for anything here. Want to ask something out of curiousity here, do you and your wife have a child or ever thought about getting one? Interested in this because of your lesbian relationship, but if the question is too personal then my apologies beforehand for asking it. So don't feel the need to answer this question at all if you don't want too, it's completely up to you. Also, you are of course free to ask me anything if you feel like knowing something. xD lol - I am as open and honest about myself as I ever have been. The -main- reason for the stuff in that thread was because one person thought it was his responsibility and right to "out" me to the community. Since then I have said "fuck it" and my life has nothing to hide, at all, ever. Leigh (my wife) and I have 3 children together, biologically, and I have a fourth (my oldest) from a prior relationship. They range in age from 6 (Marissa) to 16 (Amber). We have best friends, close enough that I have been in wedding ceremonies directly. I have identified as lesbian for as long as I can remember being attracted to anyone. I have identified as female for even longer. I hold no reservations about who or what I am, and even though I have my own little nickname for certain people who forced this information's propagation, it has made me less concerned about how I am viewed and more concerned about how I react. As an aside, I may not be interested in guys, but I certainly can say who I think is hot - and HeRo is certainly a hottie. Of course, of course, but even if you are open and honest about yourself, it doesn't mean I shouldn't respect your privacy. ^ ^ And everyone has their secrets, everyone dear.. ;p Four kids, that is quite a bit, honestly said more then I expected, which I feel rather bad about. >.< Here is another, perhaps a odd, question. Do all your children refer to both you and Leigh as their mother? With this I mean wheter your children call you and Leigh mother when they, well, need either of you two to help them with something or do something for them or have something to ask. Or, because it may get confusing with two mothers, do they always use your first name for this? Again, no need to answer this if you don't feel like it. Just curious as to how this goes, as I may know quite a few gay men (some of them are friends), I barely know any gay women, let alone one who is in a relationship and has children. So hence me asking this to you, hope you don't mind. ^ ^ Also, Puma > Hero in cuteness. >.> Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:36 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T Girls are dumb. That's why we don't like them. Well... thanks? Anyways, about your friend, if you want to let you being gay stand in between a 10 year old friendship, then be my guest, it's your life, your choice. I have nothing to say over it nor any control over it. The same applies to your friend btw. xD So, why do you want to be accepted by her for what you are? Was she your friend because she is a girl? Was she her friend because she is straight? Was she her friend because she is religious? Was she your friend because of her skin colour? Was she your friend because of her height? Her weight? Highly doubt that any of those really mattered to you and aren't the reasons for her being your friend at all. No, you were her friend because of who she is, not of what she is. So should she be or not be your friend because you are gay? If you want to keep her as a friend then stop trying to get her to accept for what you are and start trying to get her to accept for who you are. It doesn't matter that she believes being gay is a choice, because being gay doesn't define who you are (unless you are so stupid enough to let it define you) and it hasn't changed who you are either. You are still you, nothing less and nothing more. None of my friends are my friends because I am a vegetarian, or because I am gay or because I am a atheist, they are my friends because of who I am. It's that simple. Some of them don't like me being a vegetarian, gay or a atheist, but they are still my friends, because they like me for who I am and we both know that is what really matters. Not wheter I am religious or not, not of who I sleep with at night, not for what I eat and what not. One should like a person for who they are! You were her friend for who she was and she was your friend for who you are, go back to that and you may find yourself with her back on your side as your friend. Sure, she may still not want to stay your friend because you are gay or you don't want to stay a friend to her after all this, but if that's the case then it's not your fault nor hers. She is who she is and you are who you are. There's nothing more to it then that. That's all I can say about it, hopefully you didn't take any offense from anything I said. I have no intention here to offend or insult anyone.... even though you called me stupid. *sniff* ;p Anyways, hope it may help you one way or another and just like everyone else pretty much said, you still got support here. Though you may need to lay of the girl insults if you want to keep mine support.......... xD I needed her to accept me for who I am because the relationship was completely one sided. She wouldn't let me talk about boys, she wouldn't let me meet any of her other friends (or at least she was always anxious about it), she would only go to straight bars where guys would hit on her endlessly but she balked at the idea of going to a gay bar so I could have guys hit on me. She would whine endlessly about her boy drama but when I had boy drama she would gloss over it and change the subject. Basically she expected me to pretend like I wasn't gay at all around her. It always got under my skin and I always thought things were one sided but I put up with it because we had been friends for so long and I couldn't really pin down what she was doing and why it bugged me. Then she had one too many glasses of wine and let it slip. All the stuff that had just kinda irritated me now made sense and it wasn't just because of normal friendship friction, it was because for the past 2 years she's secretly thought I was choosing the life of a sinner. When you believe that something about someone is evil, you're not going to be able to have a good friendship. This whole confrontation was probably inevitable and a long time coming. I'm also not mad. Just confused at how she can cling to such patently bad logic at the cost of hurting one of her best friends. I get that it's ingrained and hard to let go of but she's had two years and she won't even re-evaluate her position. Her argument was "I have believed this my whole life so I'm not going to change what I think." How am I supposed to deal with that? P.S. I'm just being a smartass, I love girls.
I see.
Well, then I highly doubt that what I said will be of any use yeah. Thought the situation was different then it actually was, so my bad there.
As for her position, I can see why it bothers you as you are the one that is getting hurt. But it's not like she isn't hurt either.
You are hurt of how she treated you and you believe that the reasons behind that treatment are not right (you being gay = sinner). She is hurt because her friend choosed to be gay which in her eyes is choosing to be a sinner, which logically hurts her to see happening (even if you don't share that believe with her).
It doesn't even matter here who is right and who isn't, wheter being gay is a choice or not. She has believes, you have yours, and unfortunetaly those two believes ended up you hurting her and her hurting you.
I am not going to blame you or her anything, I am not going to pick sides and say you are completely right and she is ooh so wrong. Nor am I going to it the other way around and back her up.
What I am going to say here is the fact that both of you did your best to make the friendship work, neither of you is here to blame for anything in my eyes.
She tried her best, despite her believes of you being a sinner because you choose to be gay (according to her), to stay your friend through it all. Sure, she ended up hurting you in the process, but can you blame her for at least trying to make the friendship work despite the collissions of believes?
Same goes for you. When you found out your friendship was going downhill and the reasons for that, you didn't just ditch her. Instead you tried to save the friendship by talking to her, explaining things and hoping that she could accept or look past your believes and stay your friend in every other way.
Unfortunately both of you tried something to save the friendship and neither of you made it work, but the important part here is that both of you tried. That alone shows that both of you cared enough to make effort. She in trying her best for 2 years to keep the friendship going as normal and you in having difficult conversations with her about this.
I know it isn't easy, but I guess I am trying to say that you should try to find some solace in the fact that she didn't just ditch you and you didn't just ditch her as a friend. You both cared for each other, you both cared for the friendship you two had and you both tried to make it work, but in the end it just didn't work.
P.S. There's no use in being a smarrtass, you are better of with a cute or tight ass.... ;p
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:42 Gnight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:56 Klondikebar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 23:27 Gnight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:02 Catreina wrote:On December 14 2011 05:35 Gnight wrote:Don't take this the wrong way dear, but... *shrug*. I saw you as a female sc2 gamer who holds a sexual interest into other women before reading through that thread. Nothing has changed after reading through that thread. You are still a woman, you are still a sc2 gamer and you still have a sexual interest into other women. There's nothing in that thread for which you had to warn me for or that holds any shock factor to me. I know you did it with good intention, it shows you are kind hearted (at least to me... >.<) and there's nothing wrong with showing that. ^ ^ So please don't feel like I am blaming you for anything here. Want to ask something out of curiousity here, do you and your wife have a child or ever thought about getting one? Interested in this because of your lesbian relationship, but if the question is too personal then my apologies beforehand for asking it. So don't feel the need to answer this question at all if you don't want too, it's completely up to you. Also, you are of course free to ask me anything if you feel like knowing something. xD lol - I am as open and honest about myself as I ever have been. The -main- reason for the stuff in that thread was because one person thought it was his responsibility and right to "out" me to the community. Since then I have said "fuck it" and my life has nothing to hide, at all, ever. Leigh (my wife) and I have 3 children together, biologically, and I have a fourth (my oldest) from a prior relationship. They range in age from 6 (Marissa) to 16 (Amber). We have best friends, close enough that I have been in wedding ceremonies directly. I have identified as lesbian for as long as I can remember being attracted to anyone. I have identified as female for even longer. I hold no reservations about who or what I am, and even though I have my own little nickname for certain people who forced this information's propagation, it has made me less concerned about how I am viewed and more concerned about how I react. As an aside, I may not be interested in guys, but I certainly can say who I think is hot - and HeRo is certainly a hottie. Of course, of course, but even if you are open and honest about yourself, it doesn't mean I shouldn't respect your privacy. ^ ^ And everyone has their secrets, everyone dear.. ;p Four kids, that is quite a bit, honestly said more then I expected, which I feel rather bad about. >.< Here is another, perhaps a odd, question. Do all your children refer to both you and Leigh as their mother? With this I mean wheter your children call you and Leigh mother when they, well, need either of you two to help them with something or do something for them or have something to ask. Or, because it may get confusing with two mothers, do they always use your first name for this? Again, no need to answer this if you don't feel like it. Just curious as to how this goes, as I may know quite a few gay men (some of them are friends), I barely know any gay women, let alone one who is in a relationship and has children. So hence me asking this to you, hope you don't mind. ^ ^ Also, Puma > Hero in cuteness. >.> Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:36 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T Girls are dumb. That's why we don't like them. Well... thanks? Anyways, about your friend, if you want to let you being gay stand in between a 10 year old friendship, then be my guest, it's your life, your choice. I have nothing to say over it nor any control over it. The same applies to your friend btw. xD So, why do you want to be accepted by her for what you are? Was she your friend because she is a girl? Was she her friend because she is straight? Was she her friend because she is religious? Was she your friend because of her skin colour? Was she your friend because of her height? Her weight? Highly doubt that any of those really mattered to you and aren't the reasons for her being your friend at all. No, you were her friend because of who she is, not of what she is. So should she be or not be your friend because you are gay? If you want to keep her as a friend then stop trying to get her to accept for what you are and start trying to get her to accept for who you are. It doesn't matter that she believes being gay is a choice, because being gay doesn't define who you are (unless you are so stupid enough to let it define you) and it hasn't changed who you are either. You are still you, nothing less and nothing more. None of my friends are my friends because I am a vegetarian, or because I am gay or because I am a atheist, they are my friends because of who I am. It's that simple. Some of them don't like me being a vegetarian, gay or a atheist, but they are still my friends, because they like me for who I am and we both know that is what really matters. Not wheter I am religious or not, not of who I sleep with at night, not for what I eat and what not. One should like a person for who they are! You were her friend for who she was and she was your friend for who you are, go back to that and you may find yourself with her back on your side as your friend. Sure, she may still not want to stay your friend because you are gay or you don't want to stay a friend to her after all this, but if that's the case then it's not your fault nor hers. She is who she is and you are who you are. There's nothing more to it then that. That's all I can say about it, hopefully you didn't take any offense from anything I said. I have no intention here to offend or insult anyone.... even though you called me stupid. *sniff* ;p Anyways, hope it may help you one way or another and just like everyone else pretty much said, you still got support here. Though you may need to lay of the girl insults if you want to keep mine support.......... xD I needed her to accept me for who I am because the relationship was completely one sided. She wouldn't let me talk about boys, she wouldn't let me meet any of her other friends (or at least she was always anxious about it), she would only go to straight bars where guys would hit on her endlessly but she balked at the idea of going to a gay bar so I could have guys hit on me. She would whine endlessly about her boy drama but when I had boy drama she would gloss over it and change the subject. Basically she expected me to pretend like I wasn't gay at all around her. It always got under my skin and I always thought things were one sided but I put up with it because we had been friends for so long and I couldn't really pin down what she was doing and why it bugged me. Then she had one too many glasses of wine and let it slip. All the stuff that had just kinda irritated me now made sense and it wasn't just because of normal friendship friction, it was because for the past 2 years she's secretly thought I was choosing the life of a sinner. When you believe that something about someone is evil, you're not going to be able to have a good friendship. This whole confrontation was probably inevitable and a long time coming. I'm also not mad. Just confused at how she can cling to such patently bad logic at the cost of hurting one of her best friends. I get that it's ingrained and hard to let go of but she's had two years and she won't even re-evaluate her position. Her argument was "I have believed this my whole life so I'm not going to change what I think." How am I supposed to deal with that? P.S. I'm just being a smartass, I love girls. I see. Well, then I highly doubt that what I said will be of any use yeah. Thought the situation was different then it actually was, so my bad there. As for her position, I can see why it bothers you as you are the one that is getting hurt. But it's not like she isn't hurt either. You are hurt of how she treated you and you believe that the reasons behind that treatment are not right (you being gay = sinner). She is hurt because her friend choosed to be gay which in her eyes is choosing to be a sinner, which logically hurts her to see happening (even if you don't share that believe with her). It doesn't even matter here who is right and who isn't, wheter being gay is a choice or not. She has believes, you have yours, and unfortunetaly those two believes ended up you hurting her and her hurting you. I am not going to blame you or her anything, I am not going to pick sides and say you are completely right and she is ooh so wrong. Nor am I going to it the other way around and back her up. What I am going to say here is the fact that both of you did your best to make the friendship work, neither of you is here to blame for anything in my eyes. She tried her best, despite her believes of you being a sinner because you choose to be gay (according to her), to stay your friend through it all. Sure, she ended up hurting you in the process, but can you blame her for at least trying to make the friendship work despite the collissions of believes? Same goes for you. When you found out your friendship was going downhill and the reasons for that, you didn't just ditch her. Instead you tried to save the friendship by talking to her, explaining things and hoping that she could accept or look past your believes and stay your friend in every other way. Unfortunately both of you tried something to save the friendship and neither of you made it work, but the important part here is that both of you tried. That alone shows that both of you cared enough to make effort. She in trying her best for 2 years to keep the friendship going as normal and you in having difficult conversations with her about this. I know it isn't easy, but I guess I am trying to say that you should try to find some solace in the fact that she didn't just ditch you and you didn't just ditch her as a friend. You both cared for each other, you both cared for the friendship you two had and you both tried to make it work, but in the end it just didn't work. P.S. There's no use in being a smarrtass, you are better of with a cute or tight ass.... ;p
Can't agree with this part. Klondike didn't have a 'belief' that clashed with her, he is simply gay and that's all there is to it. No belief, just a fact of life. It is her intransigent beliefs that caused this.
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On December 15 2011 00:42 Gnight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:56 Klondikebar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 23:27 Gnight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:02 Catreina wrote:On December 14 2011 05:35 Gnight wrote:Don't take this the wrong way dear, but... *shrug*. I saw you as a female sc2 gamer who holds a sexual interest into other women before reading through that thread. Nothing has changed after reading through that thread. You are still a woman, you are still a sc2 gamer and you still have a sexual interest into other women. There's nothing in that thread for which you had to warn me for or that holds any shock factor to me. I know you did it with good intention, it shows you are kind hearted (at least to me... >.<) and there's nothing wrong with showing that. ^ ^ So please don't feel like I am blaming you for anything here. Want to ask something out of curiousity here, do you and your wife have a child or ever thought about getting one? Interested in this because of your lesbian relationship, but if the question is too personal then my apologies beforehand for asking it. So don't feel the need to answer this question at all if you don't want too, it's completely up to you. Also, you are of course free to ask me anything if you feel like knowing something. xD lol - I am as open and honest about myself as I ever have been. The -main- reason for the stuff in that thread was because one person thought it was his responsibility and right to "out" me to the community. Since then I have said "fuck it" and my life has nothing to hide, at all, ever. Leigh (my wife) and I have 3 children together, biologically, and I have a fourth (my oldest) from a prior relationship. They range in age from 6 (Marissa) to 16 (Amber). We have best friends, close enough that I have been in wedding ceremonies directly. I have identified as lesbian for as long as I can remember being attracted to anyone. I have identified as female for even longer. I hold no reservations about who or what I am, and even though I have my own little nickname for certain people who forced this information's propagation, it has made me less concerned about how I am viewed and more concerned about how I react. As an aside, I may not be interested in guys, but I certainly can say who I think is hot - and HeRo is certainly a hottie. Of course, of course, but even if you are open and honest about yourself, it doesn't mean I shouldn't respect your privacy. ^ ^ And everyone has their secrets, everyone dear.. ;p Four kids, that is quite a bit, honestly said more then I expected, which I feel rather bad about. >.< Here is another, perhaps a odd, question. Do all your children refer to both you and Leigh as their mother? With this I mean wheter your children call you and Leigh mother when they, well, need either of you two to help them with something or do something for them or have something to ask. Or, because it may get confusing with two mothers, do they always use your first name for this? Again, no need to answer this if you don't feel like it. Just curious as to how this goes, as I may know quite a few gay men (some of them are friends), I barely know any gay women, let alone one who is in a relationship and has children. So hence me asking this to you, hope you don't mind. ^ ^ Also, Puma > Hero in cuteness. >.> Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:36 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T Girls are dumb. That's why we don't like them. Well... thanks? Anyways, about your friend, if you want to let you being gay stand in between a 10 year old friendship, then be my guest, it's your life, your choice. I have nothing to say over it nor any control over it. The same applies to your friend btw. xD So, why do you want to be accepted by her for what you are? Was she your friend because she is a girl? Was she her friend because she is straight? Was she her friend because she is religious? Was she your friend because of her skin colour? Was she your friend because of her height? Her weight? Highly doubt that any of those really mattered to you and aren't the reasons for her being your friend at all. No, you were her friend because of who she is, not of what she is. So should she be or not be your friend because you are gay? If you want to keep her as a friend then stop trying to get her to accept for what you are and start trying to get her to accept for who you are. It doesn't matter that she believes being gay is a choice, because being gay doesn't define who you are (unless you are so stupid enough to let it define you) and it hasn't changed who you are either. You are still you, nothing less and nothing more. None of my friends are my friends because I am a vegetarian, or because I am gay or because I am a atheist, they are my friends because of who I am. It's that simple. Some of them don't like me being a vegetarian, gay or a atheist, but they are still my friends, because they like me for who I am and we both know that is what really matters. Not wheter I am religious or not, not of who I sleep with at night, not for what I eat and what not. One should like a person for who they are! You were her friend for who she was and she was your friend for who you are, go back to that and you may find yourself with her back on your side as your friend. Sure, she may still not want to stay your friend because you are gay or you don't want to stay a friend to her after all this, but if that's the case then it's not your fault nor hers. She is who she is and you are who you are. There's nothing more to it then that. That's all I can say about it, hopefully you didn't take any offense from anything I said. I have no intention here to offend or insult anyone.... even though you called me stupid. *sniff* ;p Anyways, hope it may help you one way or another and just like everyone else pretty much said, you still got support here. Though you may need to lay of the girl insults if you want to keep mine support.......... xD I needed her to accept me for who I am because the relationship was completely one sided. She wouldn't let me talk about boys, she wouldn't let me meet any of her other friends (or at least she was always anxious about it), she would only go to straight bars where guys would hit on her endlessly but she balked at the idea of going to a gay bar so I could have guys hit on me. She would whine endlessly about her boy drama but when I had boy drama she would gloss over it and change the subject. Basically she expected me to pretend like I wasn't gay at all around her. It always got under my skin and I always thought things were one sided but I put up with it because we had been friends for so long and I couldn't really pin down what she was doing and why it bugged me. Then she had one too many glasses of wine and let it slip. All the stuff that had just kinda irritated me now made sense and it wasn't just because of normal friendship friction, it was because for the past 2 years she's secretly thought I was choosing the life of a sinner. When you believe that something about someone is evil, you're not going to be able to have a good friendship. This whole confrontation was probably inevitable and a long time coming. I'm also not mad. Just confused at how she can cling to such patently bad logic at the cost of hurting one of her best friends. I get that it's ingrained and hard to let go of but she's had two years and she won't even re-evaluate her position. Her argument was "I have believed this my whole life so I'm not going to change what I think." How am I supposed to deal with that? P.S. I'm just being a smartass, I love girls. I see. Well, then I highly doubt that what I said will be of any use yeah. Thought the situation was different then it actually was, so my bad there. As for her position, I can see why it bothers you as you are the one that is getting hurt. But it's not like she isn't hurt either. You are hurt of how she treated you and you believe that the reasons behind that treatment are not right (you being gay = sinner). She is hurt because her friend choosed to be gay which in her eyes is choosing to be a sinner, which logically hurts her to see happening (even if you don't share that believe with her). It doesn't even matter here who is right and who isn't, wheter being gay is a choice or not. She has believes, you have yours, and unfortunetaly those two believes ended up you hurting her and her hurting you. I am not going to blame you or her anything, I am not going to pick sides and say you are completely right and she is ooh so wrong. Nor am I going to it the other way around and back her up. What I am going to say here is the fact that both of you did your best to make the friendship work, neither of you is here to blame for anything in my eyes. She tried her best, despite her believes of you being a sinner because you choose to be gay (according to her), to stay your friend through it all. Sure, she ended up hurting you in the process, but can you blame her for at least trying to make the friendship work despite the collissions of believes? Same goes for you. When you found out your friendship was going downhill and the reasons for that, you didn't just ditch her. Instead you tried to save the friendship by talking to her, explaining things and hoping that she could accept or look past your believes and stay your friend in every other way. Unfortunately both of you tried something to save the friendship and neither of you made it work, but the important part here is that both of you tried. That alone shows that both of you cared enough to make effort. She in trying her best for 2 years to keep the friendship going as normal and you in having difficult conversations with her about this. I know it isn't easy, but I guess I am trying to say that you should try to find some solace in the fact that she didn't just ditch you and you didn't just ditch her as a friend. You both cared for each other, you both cared for the friendship you two had and you both tried to make it work, but in the end it just didn't work. P.S. There's no use in being a smarrtass, you are better of with a cute or tight ass.... ;p
When a system of beliefs declares you guilty for something over which you have no control, I'm not inclined to feel much sympathy for it. She can believe it's a choice all she wants (I find it weird that she won't believe me when I tell her it isn't, I've never lied to her before and that's the only alternative to believing I'm telling the truth).
I'm also not going to sympathize with a belief that is clearly wrong. I cannot get an erection for a woman. My biology will not let me choose. Believe me, I have tried to choose. I spent years torturing myself trying to be aroused by women. For someone to imply that I just didn't try hard enough or I just did it wrong is downright offensive.
The double standard was out in the open. She did not choose her sexuality but I chose mine. There is no justifiable position in the world that should defend such a blatant double standard and yet, she did at the cost of a friend...
Hmm, I think I've moved past disbelief to anger now. I've actually gotten pretty pissed now that I think about how fucking stupid it is to claim that I'm lying about the "choice I made" and that she's born correctly but I somehow fucked myself up with my bad choices.
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Yeah seriously, I give no credit to anyone that is upset that I'm gay, or that by being alive I'm living in sin, because this is what her belief amounts to. Imagine if someone says that you where a sinner for having blue eyes, or perhaps more appropriate to you, a woman. It doesn't mater if they believe it more than anything in the world, they are straight up wrong.
I do not subscribe to this morally relativistic philosophy that you have, you speak of not letting being gay define you, and you know what, your right, but Klondike is not letting being gay define him, she is letting being gay define the friendship, being gay should not be a thing in a friendship, just as having blue eyes isn't, and if it its a problem for you, then I don't want to be your friend.
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On December 15 2011 00:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:42 Gnight wrote:On December 14 2011 23:56 Klondikebar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 23:27 Gnight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:02 Catreina wrote:On December 14 2011 05:35 Gnight wrote:Don't take this the wrong way dear, but... *shrug*. I saw you as a female sc2 gamer who holds a sexual interest into other women before reading through that thread. Nothing has changed after reading through that thread. You are still a woman, you are still a sc2 gamer and you still have a sexual interest into other women. There's nothing in that thread for which you had to warn me for or that holds any shock factor to me. I know you did it with good intention, it shows you are kind hearted (at least to me... >.<) and there's nothing wrong with showing that. ^ ^ So please don't feel like I am blaming you for anything here. Want to ask something out of curiousity here, do you and your wife have a child or ever thought about getting one? Interested in this because of your lesbian relationship, but if the question is too personal then my apologies beforehand for asking it. So don't feel the need to answer this question at all if you don't want too, it's completely up to you. Also, you are of course free to ask me anything if you feel like knowing something. xD lol - I am as open and honest about myself as I ever have been. The -main- reason for the stuff in that thread was because one person thought it was his responsibility and right to "out" me to the community. Since then I have said "fuck it" and my life has nothing to hide, at all, ever. Leigh (my wife) and I have 3 children together, biologically, and I have a fourth (my oldest) from a prior relationship. They range in age from 6 (Marissa) to 16 (Amber). We have best friends, close enough that I have been in wedding ceremonies directly. I have identified as lesbian for as long as I can remember being attracted to anyone. I have identified as female for even longer. I hold no reservations about who or what I am, and even though I have my own little nickname for certain people who forced this information's propagation, it has made me less concerned about how I am viewed and more concerned about how I react. As an aside, I may not be interested in guys, but I certainly can say who I think is hot - and HeRo is certainly a hottie. Of course, of course, but even if you are open and honest about yourself, it doesn't mean I shouldn't respect your privacy. ^ ^ And everyone has their secrets, everyone dear.. ;p Four kids, that is quite a bit, honestly said more then I expected, which I feel rather bad about. >.< Here is another, perhaps a odd, question. Do all your children refer to both you and Leigh as their mother? With this I mean wheter your children call you and Leigh mother when they, well, need either of you two to help them with something or do something for them or have something to ask. Or, because it may get confusing with two mothers, do they always use your first name for this? Again, no need to answer this if you don't feel like it. Just curious as to how this goes, as I may know quite a few gay men (some of them are friends), I barely know any gay women, let alone one who is in a relationship and has children. So hence me asking this to you, hope you don't mind. ^ ^ Also, Puma > Hero in cuteness. >.> Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:36 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T Girls are dumb. That's why we don't like them. Well... thanks? Anyways, about your friend, if you want to let you being gay stand in between a 10 year old friendship, then be my guest, it's your life, your choice. I have nothing to say over it nor any control over it. The same applies to your friend btw. xD So, why do you want to be accepted by her for what you are? Was she your friend because she is a girl? Was she her friend because she is straight? Was she her friend because she is religious? Was she your friend because of her skin colour? Was she your friend because of her height? Her weight? Highly doubt that any of those really mattered to you and aren't the reasons for her being your friend at all. No, you were her friend because of who she is, not of what she is. So should she be or not be your friend because you are gay? If you want to keep her as a friend then stop trying to get her to accept for what you are and start trying to get her to accept for who you are. It doesn't matter that she believes being gay is a choice, because being gay doesn't define who you are (unless you are so stupid enough to let it define you) and it hasn't changed who you are either. You are still you, nothing less and nothing more. None of my friends are my friends because I am a vegetarian, or because I am gay or because I am a atheist, they are my friends because of who I am. It's that simple. Some of them don't like me being a vegetarian, gay or a atheist, but they are still my friends, because they like me for who I am and we both know that is what really matters. Not wheter I am religious or not, not of who I sleep with at night, not for what I eat and what not. One should like a person for who they are! You were her friend for who she was and she was your friend for who you are, go back to that and you may find yourself with her back on your side as your friend. Sure, she may still not want to stay your friend because you are gay or you don't want to stay a friend to her after all this, but if that's the case then it's not your fault nor hers. She is who she is and you are who you are. There's nothing more to it then that. That's all I can say about it, hopefully you didn't take any offense from anything I said. I have no intention here to offend or insult anyone.... even though you called me stupid. *sniff* ;p Anyways, hope it may help you one way or another and just like everyone else pretty much said, you still got support here. Though you may need to lay of the girl insults if you want to keep mine support.......... xD I needed her to accept me for who I am because the relationship was completely one sided. She wouldn't let me talk about boys, she wouldn't let me meet any of her other friends (or at least she was always anxious about it), she would only go to straight bars where guys would hit on her endlessly but she balked at the idea of going to a gay bar so I could have guys hit on me. She would whine endlessly about her boy drama but when I had boy drama she would gloss over it and change the subject. Basically she expected me to pretend like I wasn't gay at all around her. It always got under my skin and I always thought things were one sided but I put up with it because we had been friends for so long and I couldn't really pin down what she was doing and why it bugged me. Then she had one too many glasses of wine and let it slip. All the stuff that had just kinda irritated me now made sense and it wasn't just because of normal friendship friction, it was because for the past 2 years she's secretly thought I was choosing the life of a sinner. When you believe that something about someone is evil, you're not going to be able to have a good friendship. This whole confrontation was probably inevitable and a long time coming. I'm also not mad. Just confused at how she can cling to such patently bad logic at the cost of hurting one of her best friends. I get that it's ingrained and hard to let go of but she's had two years and she won't even re-evaluate her position. Her argument was "I have believed this my whole life so I'm not going to change what I think." How am I supposed to deal with that? P.S. I'm just being a smartass, I love girls. I see. Well, then I highly doubt that what I said will be of any use yeah. Thought the situation was different then it actually was, so my bad there. As for her position, I can see why it bothers you as you are the one that is getting hurt. But it's not like she isn't hurt either. You are hurt of how she treated you and you believe that the reasons behind that treatment are not right (you being gay = sinner). She is hurt because her friend choosed to be gay which in her eyes is choosing to be a sinner, which logically hurts her to see happening (even if you don't share that believe with her). It doesn't even matter here who is right and who isn't, wheter being gay is a choice or not. She has believes, you have yours, and unfortunetaly those two believes ended up you hurting her and her hurting you. I am not going to blame you or her anything, I am not going to pick sides and say you are completely right and she is ooh so wrong. Nor am I going to it the other way around and back her up. What I am going to say here is the fact that both of you did your best to make the friendship work, neither of you is here to blame for anything in my eyes. She tried her best, despite her believes of you being a sinner because you choose to be gay (according to her), to stay your friend through it all. Sure, she ended up hurting you in the process, but can you blame her for at least trying to make the friendship work despite the collissions of believes? Same goes for you. When you found out your friendship was going downhill and the reasons for that, you didn't just ditch her. Instead you tried to save the friendship by talking to her, explaining things and hoping that she could accept or look past your believes and stay your friend in every other way. Unfortunately both of you tried something to save the friendship and neither of you made it work, but the important part here is that both of you tried. That alone shows that both of you cared enough to make effort. She in trying her best for 2 years to keep the friendship going as normal and you in having difficult conversations with her about this. I know it isn't easy, but I guess I am trying to say that you should try to find some solace in the fact that she didn't just ditch you and you didn't just ditch her as a friend. You both cared for each other, you both cared for the friendship you two had and you both tried to make it work, but in the end it just didn't work. P.S. There's no use in being a smarrtass, you are better of with a cute or tight ass.... ;p Can't agree with this part. Klondike didn't have a 'belief' that clashed with her, he is simply gay and that's all there is to it. No belief, just a fact of life. It is her intransigent beliefs that caused this.
Like I said, wasn't going to take sides.
If you ask someone who believes in a God wheter it's a fact wheter his/her God is real or not you will most certainly hear them say it's a fact. According to them they believe in a fact, according to me they believe in a fairy tail. Wheter they are right or not doesn't change the fact they believe in a fact and I don't think they believe in a fact.
Same applies to Klondi here (and many other gay people), they believe being gay isn't a choice for whatever reason that may be. There believe is, according to science, a fact, but it being a fact in the eyes of gay people, science or anyone/anything else doesn't make it no longer a believe.
A belief is a belief, wheter it's a believe in a fiction or science fiction according to anyone, it's still a belief and that's what I was trying to get at. You can disagree with this view btw, to each their own. ^ ^
Sidenote btw, I believe being gay is partly hardwired and partly a choice and so far not one person nor science has proven me wrong (or right for that matter) in my belief. ;p
On December 15 2011 00:58 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:42 Gnight wrote:On December 14 2011 23:56 Klondikebar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 23:27 Gnight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:02 Catreina wrote:On December 14 2011 05:35 Gnight wrote:Don't take this the wrong way dear, but... *shrug*. I saw you as a female sc2 gamer who holds a sexual interest into other women before reading through that thread. Nothing has changed after reading through that thread. You are still a woman, you are still a sc2 gamer and you still have a sexual interest into other women. There's nothing in that thread for which you had to warn me for or that holds any shock factor to me. I know you did it with good intention, it shows you are kind hearted (at least to me... >.<) and there's nothing wrong with showing that. ^ ^ So please don't feel like I am blaming you for anything here. Want to ask something out of curiousity here, do you and your wife have a child or ever thought about getting one? Interested in this because of your lesbian relationship, but if the question is too personal then my apologies beforehand for asking it. So don't feel the need to answer this question at all if you don't want too, it's completely up to you. Also, you are of course free to ask me anything if you feel like knowing something. xD lol - I am as open and honest about myself as I ever have been. The -main- reason for the stuff in that thread was because one person thought it was his responsibility and right to "out" me to the community. Since then I have said "fuck it" and my life has nothing to hide, at all, ever. Leigh (my wife) and I have 3 children together, biologically, and I have a fourth (my oldest) from a prior relationship. They range in age from 6 (Marissa) to 16 (Amber). We have best friends, close enough that I have been in wedding ceremonies directly. I have identified as lesbian for as long as I can remember being attracted to anyone. I have identified as female for even longer. I hold no reservations about who or what I am, and even though I have my own little nickname for certain people who forced this information's propagation, it has made me less concerned about how I am viewed and more concerned about how I react. As an aside, I may not be interested in guys, but I certainly can say who I think is hot - and HeRo is certainly a hottie. Of course, of course, but even if you are open and honest about yourself, it doesn't mean I shouldn't respect your privacy. ^ ^ And everyone has their secrets, everyone dear.. ;p Four kids, that is quite a bit, honestly said more then I expected, which I feel rather bad about. >.< Here is another, perhaps a odd, question. Do all your children refer to both you and Leigh as their mother? With this I mean wheter your children call you and Leigh mother when they, well, need either of you two to help them with something or do something for them or have something to ask. Or, because it may get confusing with two mothers, do they always use your first name for this? Again, no need to answer this if you don't feel like it. Just curious as to how this goes, as I may know quite a few gay men (some of them are friends), I barely know any gay women, let alone one who is in a relationship and has children. So hence me asking this to you, hope you don't mind. ^ ^ Also, Puma > Hero in cuteness. >.> Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:36 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:03 Kennigit wrote:
I wish girls were so open about wanting pix T_T Girls are dumb. That's why we don't like them. Well... thanks? Anyways, about your friend, if you want to let you being gay stand in between a 10 year old friendship, then be my guest, it's your life, your choice. I have nothing to say over it nor any control over it. The same applies to your friend btw. xD So, why do you want to be accepted by her for what you are? Was she your friend because she is a girl? Was she her friend because she is straight? Was she her friend because she is religious? Was she your friend because of her skin colour? Was she your friend because of her height? Her weight? Highly doubt that any of those really mattered to you and aren't the reasons for her being your friend at all. No, you were her friend because of who she is, not of what she is. So should she be or not be your friend because you are gay? If you want to keep her as a friend then stop trying to get her to accept for what you are and start trying to get her to accept for who you are. It doesn't matter that she believes being gay is a choice, because being gay doesn't define who you are (unless you are so stupid enough to let it define you) and it hasn't changed who you are either. You are still you, nothing less and nothing more. None of my friends are my friends because I am a vegetarian, or because I am gay or because I am a atheist, they are my friends because of who I am. It's that simple. Some of them don't like me being a vegetarian, gay or a atheist, but they are still my friends, because they like me for who I am and we both know that is what really matters. Not wheter I am religious or not, not of who I sleep with at night, not for what I eat and what not. One should like a person for who they are! You were her friend for who she was and she was your friend for who you are, go back to that and you may find yourself with her back on your side as your friend. Sure, she may still not want to stay your friend because you are gay or you don't want to stay a friend to her after all this, but if that's the case then it's not your fault nor hers. She is who she is and you are who you are. There's nothing more to it then that. That's all I can say about it, hopefully you didn't take any offense from anything I said. I have no intention here to offend or insult anyone.... even though you called me stupid. *sniff* ;p Anyways, hope it may help you one way or another and just like everyone else pretty much said, you still got support here. Though you may need to lay of the girl insults if you want to keep mine support.......... xD I needed her to accept me for who I am because the relationship was completely one sided. She wouldn't let me talk about boys, she wouldn't let me meet any of her other friends (or at least she was always anxious about it), she would only go to straight bars where guys would hit on her endlessly but she balked at the idea of going to a gay bar so I could have guys hit on me. She would whine endlessly about her boy drama but when I had boy drama she would gloss over it and change the subject. Basically she expected me to pretend like I wasn't gay at all around her. It always got under my skin and I always thought things were one sided but I put up with it because we had been friends for so long and I couldn't really pin down what she was doing and why it bugged me. Then she had one too many glasses of wine and let it slip. All the stuff that had just kinda irritated me now made sense and it wasn't just because of normal friendship friction, it was because for the past 2 years she's secretly thought I was choosing the life of a sinner. When you believe that something about someone is evil, you're not going to be able to have a good friendship. This whole confrontation was probably inevitable and a long time coming. I'm also not mad. Just confused at how she can cling to such patently bad logic at the cost of hurting one of her best friends. I get that it's ingrained and hard to let go of but she's had two years and she won't even re-evaluate her position. Her argument was "I have believed this my whole life so I'm not going to change what I think." How am I supposed to deal with that? P.S. I'm just being a smartass, I love girls. I see. Well, then I highly doubt that what I said will be of any use yeah. Thought the situation was different then it actually was, so my bad there. As for her position, I can see why it bothers you as you are the one that is getting hurt. But it's not like she isn't hurt either. You are hurt of how she treated you and you believe that the reasons behind that treatment are not right (you being gay = sinner). She is hurt because her friend choosed to be gay which in her eyes is choosing to be a sinner, which logically hurts her to see happening (even if you don't share that believe with her). It doesn't even matter here who is right and who isn't, wheter being gay is a choice or not. She has believes, you have yours, and unfortunetaly those two believes ended up you hurting her and her hurting you. I am not going to blame you or her anything, I am not going to pick sides and say you are completely right and she is ooh so wrong. Nor am I going to it the other way around and back her up. What I am going to say here is the fact that both of you did your best to make the friendship work, neither of you is here to blame for anything in my eyes. She tried her best, despite her believes of you being a sinner because you choose to be gay (according to her), to stay your friend through it all. Sure, she ended up hurting you in the process, but can you blame her for at least trying to make the friendship work despite the collissions of believes? Same goes for you. When you found out your friendship was going downhill and the reasons for that, you didn't just ditch her. Instead you tried to save the friendship by talking to her, explaining things and hoping that she could accept or look past your believes and stay your friend in every other way. Unfortunately both of you tried something to save the friendship and neither of you made it work, but the important part here is that both of you tried. That alone shows that both of you cared enough to make effort. She in trying her best for 2 years to keep the friendship going as normal and you in having difficult conversations with her about this. I know it isn't easy, but I guess I am trying to say that you should try to find some solace in the fact that she didn't just ditch you and you didn't just ditch her as a friend. You both cared for each other, you both cared for the friendship you two had and you both tried to make it work, but in the end it just didn't work. P.S. There's no use in being a smarrtass, you are better of with a cute or tight ass.... ;p When a system of beliefs declares you guilty for something over which you have no control, I'm not inclined to feel much sympathy for it. She can believe it's a choice all she wants (I find it weird that she won't believe me when I tell her it isn't, I've never lied to her before and that's the only alternative to believing I'm telling the truth). I'm also not going to sympathize with a belief that is clearly wrong. I cannot get an erection for a woman. My biology will not let me choose. Believe me, I have tried to choose. I spent years torturing myself trying to be aroused by women. For someone to imply that I just didn't try hard enough or I just did it wrong is downright offensive. The double standard was out in the open. She did not choose her sexuality but I chose mine. There is no justifiable position in the world that should defend such a blatant double standard and yet, she did at the cost of a friend... Hmm, I think I've moved past disbelief to anger now. I've actually gotten pretty pissed now that I think about how fucking stupid it is to claim that I'm lying about the "choice I made" and that she's born correctly but I somehow fucked myself up with my bad choices.
Sorry to say this, but I think you are missing the point I was trying making there.
I wasn't going to pick sides, I wasn't going to justify what she did nor was I saying that whatever she did was right to do.
All I was saying is that she tried her best for 2 whole years to stay your friend despite her believes colliding with having that friendship. You can blame her all you want for anything you want, you are more then free to do so and I get why you would do it, seeing she hurt you.
But you can't deny the fact that she tried her best to make things work between you. Do you even know how hard it is to do what she did? Because I highly doubt you know that, no offense meant with that btw.
Ignoring for 2 whole years the thing you believe in just to try and can keep a friendship going.
That is what she did for you, for you and for the friendship you two had!
Once again I am not saying that justifies her believes or anything, but she cared about you enough to go that far.
I am pretty sure that the majority of people won't go that far in a attempt to keep a friendship. That says alot and I was just hoping that you could find some comfort in that thought. That she didn't just threw you to the side for her believes, but that she actually tried her best to make it work.
Anyways, sorry if what I said pissed you off or anything. Was once again not my intention. ^ ^
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When you guys were trying to convince yourself you were straight, what did you masturbate to? (Girls only, straight porn, or gay porn). Did you think about men while looking at women, or did you just put a lot of effort into liking women and sexualizing everything, such that you could get off while watching them? and for the girls in the thread, just reverse those. in fact, do you girls have the same stigma straight girls seem to have against watching porn?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Gnight, You seem to misunderstand what a belief is and what a fact is. To use dictionary.com for convenience:
Belief:
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
See how clearly a belief is an OPINION, or FAITH, TRUST - not susceptible to proof.
Fact:
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
Ergo, TRUTH, REALITY, PROVABLE
You're mixing up the two, the validity of them both, and this skews your point of view to something incorrect, in my view.
In other words, I simply do not agree with the idea that in rational argument vs irrational argument, we should sit on the fence. No, we side with the rational.
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On December 15 2011 01:46 marvellosity wrote:
Gnight, You seem to misunderstand what a belief is and what a fact is. To use dictionary.com for convenience:
Belief:
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
See how clearly a belief is an OPINION, or FAITH, TRUST - not susceptible to proof.
Fact:
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
Ergo, TRUTH, REALITY, PROVABLE
You're mixing up the two, the validity of them both, and this skews your point of view to something incorrect, in my view.
In other words, I simply do not agree with the idea that in rational argument vs irrational argument, we should sit on the fence. No, we side with the rational.
You seem to misunderstand the fact that you can believe in a fact just as much as you can believe in something that hasn't been proven to be a fact yet or has been disproven of being a fact.... >.<
Or are you saying you can't believe in a fact here? (Which you have every right to believe in of course)
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/dypzip.jpg)
