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On August 30 2010 14:52 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 08:21 Ideas wrote:On August 30 2010 08:17 Xeris wrote:
no deadline... players can join throughout the season, but players added late (past some undecided point) won't be eligible for the playoffs. i dont understand the reasoning for this rule. if a team finds out a really good player is at their school and they only then contact him and get him playing for them, why can't he play in the playoffs? it's kinda like a merc, I'll use an example from BW. let's say you're in a clan league with a 1k prize, and right before the final you just recruit Flash to play for you so you can win. obviously this isn't really fair to the competition, he's not really a part of the team, etc. so on a similar note, someone who hasn't been with the team for the whole season can be thought of as a merc. "hey, you're really good at SC, play in the playoffs for my team..." - it just seems wrong.
but he goes to the school and plays SC and so he IS part of the team... you can't hire people for CSL lol. And even if you could, it's like when KT bought ForGG last year (right before Winner's League playoffs): even though it backfired and he slumped horribly, it was allowed. This just seems like an arbitrary rule for something that doesn't really matter.
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I think it's more like "oh we've played so hard the whole season to get to where we are blah blah blah... oh look we found an A level player, go win our playoff games for us even though you did nothing to get us here and we barely know you!"
I can see why they want to prevent this from happening even if I would do it myself if the rule isn't there
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^ i think Ideas got his point
a person who go to school and play sc should be able to join play off. more over the season will end b4 next semester start so there is no way a team can hired some one else to JOIN their school and join their. Its like STX has their right to put Tossgirl into PL but they just choose not to.
This also help schools to prepare some secret weapon :-j
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On August 30 2010 15:19 NB wrote:
^ i think Ideas got his point
a person who go to school and play sc should be able to join play off. more over the season will end b4 next semester start so there is no way a team can hired some one else to JOIN their school and join their. Its like STX has their right to put Tossgirl into PL but they just choose not to.
This also help schools to prepare some secret weapon :-j
I believe it's fine if the person is already on the roster.
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LOL WE HAVE GIRL! I think you should use of the iCCup maps (go to Create game and search them up, they're pretty cool), instead of just always Blizzard maps.
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On August 30 2010 15:24 TriniMasta wrote:
LOL WE HAVE GIRL! I think you should use of the iCCup maps (go to Create game and search them up, they're pretty cool), instead of just always Blizzard maps.
yea using a 1-3 non-ladder maps in the CSL would be a GREAT way to promote community maps :D
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On August 30 2010 15:17 blabber wrote:
I think it's more like "oh we've played so hard the whole season to get to where we are blah blah blah... oh look we found an A level player, go win our playoff games for us even though you did nothing to get us here and we barely know you!"
I can see why they want to prevent this from happening even if I would do it myself if the rule isn't there
the only way I can see someone getting upset from this is that a team will perform better in the playoffs. but they already MADE the playoffs so it's not like some other more-deserving team should be there instead. It's like in mighty ducks 3 when Portman came in after the 2nd period during the JV-Varsity game: he was always part of the team but was only then able to play (in the CSL's case, anyone who plays SC at the school is part of the team, and is only able to play when the coordinator puts them on the roster/lineup).
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well I guess it just comes down to what your definition of the "team" is. Is it everyone at the school? Or just the people listed on the roster?
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On August 30 2010 15:17 blabber wrote:
I think it's more like "oh we've played so hard the whole season to get to where we are blah blah blah... oh look we found an A level player, go win our playoff games for us even though you did nothing to get us here and we barely know you!"
I can see why they want to prevent this from happening even if I would do it myself if the rule isn't there
This is exactly right. Just because a guy plays SC and goes to your school doesn't mean he is necessarily part of the team. It's like if you have Joe, Bob, and Jimmy playing every regular season game, and they're C level players lets say.
Then you get to the semis and you find out that Jaeyun, Myung-Kim, and Yung-wha play SC and are A level players and they play all your playoff games. Then you basically throw all your other players who have been fighting for your school from the beginning under the bus because you found cool new players - that doesn't seem fair to them.
Secondly, it's bad for preparation, for example, a team would go study past replays or whatever to try and prepare for the match... if you use some unknown mercs (im just calling them mercs for the sake of argument), there can be no real way to prepare yourself and you're fighting in the dark.
Both of those present unfair opportunities, and is why that rule is in place.
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On August 30 2010 15:33 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 15:17 blabber wrote:
I think it's more like "oh we've played so hard the whole season to get to where we are blah blah blah... oh look we found an A level player, go win our playoff games for us even though you did nothing to get us here and we barely know you!"
I can see why they want to prevent this from happening even if I would do it myself if the rule isn't there This is exactly right. Just because a guy plays SC and goes to your school doesn't mean he is necessarily part of the team. It's like if you have Joe, Bob, and Jimmy playing every regular season game, and they're C level players lets say. Then you get to the semis and you find out that Jaeyun, Myung-Kim, and Yung-wha play SC and are A level players and they play all your playoff games. Then you basically throw all your other players who have been fighting for your school from the beginning under the bus because you found cool new players - that doesn't seem fair to them.
immoral? yes. but should a rule be built-in to prohibit it? I would say no. especially considering many teams (not just coordinators) would still want to use their best players possible all the time. I specifically remember having a conversation with my team at the beginning of seasons 1, 2, and 3 about whether we want to play seriously and only use our best players every match or just play for fun and rotate out the lineups all the time (so everyone can play equal amounts), every time it was an absolute majority vote for serious play(although at the end when we were guaranteed a playoffs spot we still let the B-team play some games lol). I'm not saying all players feel this way about CSL or even all team majorities do, but it still sucks to be limiting teams that get lucky so-to-speak and discover a good player late into the season.
Secondly, it's bad for preparation, for example, a team would go study past replays or whatever to try and prepare for the match... if you use some unknown mercs (im just calling them mercs for the sake of argument), there can be no real way to prepare yourself and you're fighting in the dark.
Both of those present unfair opportunities, and is why that rule is in place.
I see this as an actual strategy that a team can use. Hey, if I have masterasia on my team but no one knows just how good he actually is, and I decide to wait till the playoffs to use him, and I actually MAKE the playoffs, then that's just more power to me. I guess if it's just adding some A-level korean RIGHT at the beginning of the playoffs then that would kinda suck. Maybe the rule should just be that someone in the playoffs must play at least 1 game in the regular season or something if they were added late.
although really I doubt this will ever be the case for any team lol. realistically it will just stop 1 or 2 teams from being able to use 1 more decent/good player in the playoffs, even if that player had played a few matches for them in the regular season.
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Michigan actually held back some of our best players just for the playoffs last season. We could have used them during the regular season, but since we wanted as many people to play as possible without actually losing any matches, we'd just have the best for potential ace where necessary.
Since the deadline for adding players was/is(?) so late anyway, I don't think it makes that much of a difference, practically.
Don't really have an argument here. If it was still BW, I would side with the "no mercs" argument more strongly because it's hard enough as it is to find players. But for SC2, it's new and popular enough to gather sufficient interest even from the beginning of the semester.
At any rate, what kind of players you start (if you have a large enough team) is something decided by team culture. Is it about the winning? If so, maybe you can send your best players every single set and win each match 3-0 every time, while everyone else just warms the bench. Is it about letting as many people as possible enjoy a "proleague" experience (while remaining competitive, of course)?
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DAMNIT, COME ON TEXAS! WHERE ARE YOU PEOPLE! I'd play but I'm an alumni as off May 
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On August 30 2010 16:15 Funnytoss wrote:
Michigan actually held back some of our best players just for the playoffs last season. We could have used them during the regular season, but since we wanted as many people to play as possible without actually losing any matches, we'd just have the best for potential ace where necessary.
Since the deadline for adding players was/is(?) so late anyway, I don't think it makes that much of a difference, practically.
Don't really have an argument here. If it was still BW, I would side with the "no mercs" argument more strongly because it's hard enough as it is to find players. But for SC2, it's new and popular enough to gather sufficient interest even from the beginning of the semester.
At any rate, what kind of players you start (if you have a large enough team) is something decided by team culture. Is it about the winning? If so, maybe you can send your best players every single set and win each match 3-0 every time, while everyone else just warms the bench. Is it about letting as many people as possible enjoy a "proleague" experience (while remaining competitive, of course)?
this is why no season will ever be as good as season 1, when being D+ meant you can have a 50% win ratio in the regular season lol
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this is why no season will ever be as good as season 1, when being D+ meant you can have a 50% win ratio in the regular season lol
It's really division dependent, I think. Season 2 we were placed with Toronto and Waterloo... suffice to say, we missed the playoffs. OSU was also decently strong that year. Season 3... let's just say that we didn't actually need to use anyone above C-, and if we did it was pretty much for the lolz.
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United States4126 Posts
I still prefer the excitement of an ace match over a 2v2 match. Since 2v2's are completely different than 1v1's, the players who have to play in them have to take away practice time to learn another "game" so to speak. The idea of an ace match is to have the best from each school matched against eachother, so the games should always be great.
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On August 30 2010 14:57 Solidus_315 wrote:
so UC Berkeley is in this when Andrew Poon confirms? I would really love to participate
Andrew Poon has created a team on the website already, feel free to join up =p.
On August 30 2010 15:19 NB wrote:
^ i think Ideas got his point
a person who go to school and play sc should be able to join play off. more over the season will end b4 next semester start so there is no way a team can hired some one else to JOIN their school and join their. Its like STX has their right to put Tossgirl into PL but they just choose not to.
This also help schools to prepare some secret weapon :-j
If you really want a "secret weapon," just have them be on your roster and don't send them out until playoffs or something. "Secret weapon" implies that you've known about the person since the beginning of the semester, in which case, it shouldn't be a problem. The discussion right now is about players who ARENT on the roster, and then suddenly get put on right before the playoffs or something.
If you're going to compare this to PL, PL has specific times that they can change their rosters, right? So someone who randomly walks in wouldn't be able to play for the team, unless they were the roster.
On August 30 2010 15:27 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 15:24 TriniMasta wrote:
LOL WE HAVE GIRL! I think you should use of the iCCup maps (go to Create game and search them up, they're pretty cool), instead of just always Blizzard maps. yea using a 1-3 non-ladder maps in the CSL would be a GREAT way to promote community maps :D
It's being considered ^^. Everyone else, feel free to speak up about map preferences. The staff will (kind of) take into account what you have to say  .
On August 30 2010 16:21 Ideas wrote:
this is why no season will ever be as good as season 1, when being D+ meant you can have a 50% win ratio in the regular season lol
It's a new game, this season might show some of that same bad-people-winning-ness =P.
My thoughts on what's currently being discussed: Player registration cutoff isn't going to be so early that a lot of schools miss out on new players. Most likely, it'll be mid-season, if not later. That said, I think that schools should be able to find enough players by then. In the rare case that a school stumbles upon an A level player or whatever right before the playoffs, then, assuming the team is already in the playoffs, they should have a decent chance in the playoffs anyway. Yes, they might lose at some point where that A level player could have made a difference, but really, I don't think I'd support that. If it really matters to you (you, speaking in general to coordinators), then just make sure you advertise your team well enough while you have the time. Plus, this is part of the reason why there are two seasons - new players that don't make the deadline can just join up a couple months after.
I will no longer be updating the pre-registration list of schools because... it is no longer pre-registration =D. If you have any questions about whether or not your school has a team in the CSL, first check the currently registered teams, then check that old list in the OP/this newspost, then - unless you don't want to coordinate - you can register your own team for your school ^^.
General tips:
-If your school has already been registered, simply go the team page and click the "Join" option (while logged in on an account) to apply to be on that team. The coordinator will then accept/deny your request.
-If your school is on the pre-registration list, but not currently registered, email us about it - the coordinator listed is probably just being lazy, and we'll send an(other) email to them telling them to hurry up. And then, we can also email you as soon as the team is registered ^^.
-If your school is on neither list, then you can either email us, or just go right ahead and register a team (while logged in, top right "Team Registration"). If you don't want to coordinate, the best course of action from there is to either make a team anyways to find players and then convince them to coordinate, or make a blog/post/email people from your school to find others who are interested.
On another note:
Poll: What do you prefer for match format?Five 1v1s, last one is an Ace (last season style) (83) 63% Both: three 1v1s, a 2v2, and an Ace match (unique players for the non-Ace?) (30) 23% Four 1v1s (unique players), with a 2v2 (whoever) (16) 12% Don't care. (1) 1% Other - specify in thread. (1) 1% 131 total votes Your vote: What do you prefer for match format? (Vote): Five 1v1s, last one is an Ace (last season style)
(Vote): Four 1v1s (unique players), with a 2v2 (whoever)
(Vote): Both: three 1v1s, a 2v2, and an Ace match (unique players for the non-Ace?)
(Vote): Don't care.
(Vote): Other - specify in thread.
Poll: Should new players (past X deadline) be allowed in the playoff?Yes - as long as they join before the playoffs (45) 45% Yes - provided they have played a match or two before the playoffs (21) 21% Yes - regardless of when they join the team (including during playoffs) (17) 17% No - once the CSL deadline for new players has passed, no deal (17) 17% Other - specify in thread (0) 0% 100 total votes Your vote: Should new players (past X deadline) be allowed in the playoff? (Vote): Yes - regardless of when they join the team (including during playoffs)
(Vote): Yes - as long as they join before the playoffs
(Vote): Yes - provided they have played a match or two before the playoffs
(Vote): No - once the CSL deadline for new players has passed, no deal
(Vote): Other - specify in thread
Poll: What kind of map pool?Some Blizzard, Some User (ie. ICCup) (55) 59% Any Blizzard Ladder Maps (22) 23% Run Ling Run (for all 5 sets) (7) 7% All User Maps (ie. ICCup) (6) 6% Certain Blizzard Maps (Specify) (4) 4% Other - Specify in thread (0) 0% 94 total votes Your vote: What kind of map pool? (Vote): Any Blizzard Ladder Maps
(Vote): Certain Blizzard Maps (Specify)
(Vote): Some Blizzard, Some User (ie. ICCup)
(Vote): All User Maps (ie. ICCup)
(Vote): Run Ling Run (for all 5 sets)
(Vote): Other - Specify in thread
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Poll FTW, ace will return then? :D
at another point of view, we can say that amateur schools do not care much enough to vote :<
btw, i cant find Uwaterloo on the list.... something is wrong... o.O
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Only use Blizzard Ladder maps please. People aren't going to spend time learning a new map just for CSL.
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On August 31 2010 13:53 T.O.P. wrote:
Only use Blizzard Ladder maps please. People aren't going to spend time learning a new map just for CSL.
just like how progamers aren't going to spend time learning a new map just for OSL?
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EPT
