EPTIn-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 98
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Ancient Apparition (Lane/Middle) Anti-Mage Batrider Bounty Hunter (Description Change) Broodmother (Description Change) Chaos Knight Dark Seer Dazzle Death Prophet Disruptor Drow Ranger (Butterfly Description Change) Earthshaker Enchantress Ember Spirit Enigma Faceless Void (Chronosphere Description change) Gyrocopter (Mid build/Max Missile) Juggernaut IO Kunkka Legion Commander Lich Lifestealer Lion Lycan (garbage) Magnus Naga Siren Nightstalker Pugna (Ultimate description change) Queen of Pain Shadow Demon Skywrath Mage (descriptions) Slark (ultimate description) Sniper (description) Spectre Spirit Breaker (ability description changes) Techies Troll Warlord Tusk (Description changes) Ursa Vengeful Spirit Weaver Windranger Wraith King Keeper (description) Hero Guides Ability Change: Brewmaster (Drunken Brawler pre-6) Jakiro (Dual Breath before Ice Path?) Riki (entire ability rebuild + descriptions) Shadow Shaman (Hex or Shackles pre-6) Hero Guides Item Build Change: Abaddon (Meka/Soul Ring/Vanguard/Crimson Guard??) Axe (Meka/Soul Ring/Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Bane (Aghanim's Scepter) Clinkz (orb effect attacks [deso/HOTD]) Clockwerk (Mekansm, Soul Ring, Vanguard, Crimson Guard) Doom (Aghanim's Scepter/Description change not affecting passives) Elder Titan (Aghanim's Scepter, Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard/Soul Ring/Urn of Shadows) Bristleback (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Centaur Warrunner (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Slardar (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Lina (Bloodstone?) Medusa (Butterfly) Meepo (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Necrophos (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Omniknight (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Nyx Assassin (Blink Dagger) Outworld Devourer (remove Mekansm) Phoenix (Aghanim's Scepter - Situational?, Ring of Protection - Starting items) Puck (Aghanim's Scepter - Extension items) Pudge (Tranquil Boots/Remove Phase) Visage (Ring of Protection - starting items) Razor (Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard, Butterfly) Shadow Fiend (Butterfly) Luna (Butterfly) Silencer (Meka, Item Build rework maybe?) Storm Spirit (Soul Ring) Sven (Aghanim's Scepter - Situational) Templar Assassin (MKB to Situational Items) Tidehunter (Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Timbersaw (Aghanim's Scepter, Soul Ring) Tinker (Bloodstone) Treant Protector (Soul Ring, Aghanim's Scepter, Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Undying (Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard, Aghanim's Scepter, description changes) Venomancer (Alternative core build revolving around blink + Aghanim's?, description change) Witch Doctor (Soul Ring) Zeus (Blink Dagger) Viper (Ring of Protection/Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Ogre Magi (Soul Ring, Mid guide?) Hero Guides Complete Revision: Alchemist (remove Greevil's Gold item section ability [lvl2], rework Support/Ganker item builds and section to more traditional) Bloodseeker (lfjbwafhgwhbgpauphrpgfhw, added blademail/euls?) - Do lane guide Chen (Aghanim's Core, Holy Persuasion Description rewrite, Lane Guide?) Earth Spirit (Lane Guide, Aghanim's Scepter, Description Change, Item Build) Huskar (Item rework, ability description rework) Invoker (ohgnpanpgn) - no idea Lone Druid (bear rework holy shit) Mirana (Butterfly) Leshrac (early Soul Ring/Bloodstone - Ability Pulse Nova check) Phantom Lancer (wafwhn;gw) Nature's Prophet (Butterfly, Remove Item Build Sections + Descriptions) Warlock (Mid guide) Beastmaster (Ancients pulling remove, Meka/Soul Ring/Vanguard/Crimson Guard + Mid guide lvl 2 aura then max creeps) Items to consider (when editing guides): Crimson Guard Vanguard Cloak/Hood of Defiance/Pipe of Insight (additive effects) Bloodstone Blink Dagger Aghanim's Scepter Mekansm (replace/remove) Ring of Protection (replace/remove) Butterfly (change description) Bottle (dual runes)
- 6:00-9:0' Draft done - 9:00-10:00 Formatting/Update done (Excel Sheet, Front Page, Patch Notes) - 10:00-3:00 Breakfast/Lunch, Gathering opinions/feedback/ideas/advice New Colour for 6.82 picked out (blue) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CX6MPbQ.png) | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
- I'd say 1 guide to rule them all. - Blink, Crimson gaurd, bkb core items - PT's seems to offer more when combined with a crimson gaurd and pretty versatile (int/str toggle). - AC and HoT new extension items, i think the shiva doesnt synergise that well with counterhelix which got buffed with 10% more damageoutput. - Manaboots, Mek, blademail new situational items http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128726494 http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=251941747 General thought : Almost every mekcarrier should have manaboots. | ||
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CrusherDota2
Germany2 Posts
 .Good luck with the next patch though, that will probably require a lot of rework. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On September 24 2014 19:27 CrusherDota2 wrote: Just want to hop by to tell you how awesome this project is. If I don't have any specific playing style in mind and don't know anything about the hero I always pick your guides. Easily understandable and always very solid. Very awesome project .Good luck with the next patch though, that will probably require a lot of rework. Thank you very much. We've been doing this for a year and a 1/2, so new patches like these are scary at first view but gets easier as you break it down. Thanks for using the guides, it's the reason I still keep doing this. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 24 2014 16:35 govie wrote: Axe jungle and lane suggestion - I'd say 1 guide to rule them all. - Blink, Crimson gaurd, bkb core items - PT's seems to offer more when combined with a crimson gaurd and pretty versatile (int/str toggle). - AC and HoT new extension items, i think the shiva doesnt synergise that well with counterhelix which got buffed with 10% more damageoutput. - Manaboots, Mek, blademail new situational items http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128726494 http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=251941747 General thought : Almost every mekcarrier should have manaboots. BKB is not core. Against magic damage, Cloak or Pipe are already generally preferable because you don't care about magic immunity, just not dying to magic damage. Increased spin % chance doesn't come close to making Shiva's worse. Treads suck for Axe. In jungle, you still jungle with Tranquils. In lane you still either get Manaboots for teammates or Phase for lane dominance. There's almost zero reason to ever buy Treads. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
On September 24 2014 15:23 Buckyman wrote: Other heroes who should be evaluated for a RoP start that don't already: Necrophos Kinda meh about this one. | ||
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
On September 24 2014 15:48 Torte de Lini wrote: Hero Guides Unchanged: Ancient Apparition (Lane/Middle) Anti-Mage Batrider Bounty Hunter (Description Change) Broodmother (Description Change) Chaos Knight Dark Seer Dazzle Death Prophet Disruptor Drow Ranger (Butterfly Description Change) Earthshaker Enchantress Ember Spirit Enigma Faceless Void (Chronosphere Description change) Gyrocopter (Mid build/Max Missile) Juggernaut IO Kunkka Legion Commander Lich Lifestealer Lion Lycan (garbage) Magnus Naga Siren Nightstalker Pugna (Ultimate description change) Queen of Pain Shadow Demon Skywrath Mage (descriptions) Slark (ultimate description) Sniper (description) Spectre Spirit Breaker (ability description changes) Techies Troll Warlord Tusk (Description changes) Ursa Vengeful Spirit Weaver Windranger Wraith King Keeper (description) Hero Guides Ability Change: Brewmaster (Drunken Brawler pre-6) Jakiro (Dual Breath before Ice Path?) Riki (entire ability rebuild + descriptions) Shadow Shaman (Hex or Shackles pre-6) Hero Guides Item Build Change: Abaddon (Meka/Soul Ring/Vanguard/Crimson Guard??) Axe (Meka/Soul Ring/Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Bane (Aghanim's Scepter) Beastmaster (Ancients pulling remove, Meka/Soul Ring/Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Clinkz (orb effect attacks [deso/HOTD]) Clockwerk (Mekansm, Soul Ring, Vanguard, Crimson Guard) Doom (Aghanim's Scepter/Description change not affecting passives) Elder Titan (Aghanim's Scepter, Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard/Soul Ring/Urn of Shadows) Bristleback (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Centaur Warrunner (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Slardar (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Lina (Bloodstone?) Medusa (Butterfly) Meepo (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Necrophos (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Omniknight (Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Nyx Assassin (Blink Dagger) Outworld Devourer (remove Mekansm) Phoenix (Aghanim's Scepter - Situational?, Ring of Protection - Starting items) Puck (Aghanim's Scepter - Extension items) Pudge (Tranquil Boots/Remove Phase) Visage (Ring of Protection - starting items) Razor (Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard, Butterfly) Shadow Fiend (Butterfly) Luna (Butterfly) Silencer (Meka, Item Build rework maybe?) Storm Spirit (Soul Ring) Sven (Aghanim's Scepter - Situational) Templar Assassin (MKB to Situational Items) Tidehunter (Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Timbersaw (Aghanim's Scepter, Soul Ring) Tinker (Bloodstone) Treant Protector (Soul Ring, Aghanim's Scepter, Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Undying (Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard, Aghanim's Scepter, description changes) Venomancer (Alternative core build revolving around blink + Aghanim's?, description change) Witch Doctor (Soul Ring) Zeus (Blink Dagger) Viper (Ring of Protection/Vanguard/Crimson Guard) Ogre Magi (Soul Ring, Mid guide?) Hero Guides Complete Revision: Alchemist (remove Greevil's Gold item section ability [lvl2], rework Support/Ganker item builds and section to more traditional) Bloodseeker (lfjbwafhgwhbgpauphrpgfhw, added blademail/euls?) - Do lane guide Chen (Aghanim's Core, Holy Persuasion Description rewrite, Lane Guide?) Earth Spirit (Lane Guide, Aghanim's Scepter, Description Change, Item Build) Huskar (Item rework, ability description rework) Invoker (ohgnpanpgn) - no idea Lone Druid (bear rework holy shit) Mirana (Butterfly) Leshrac (early Soul Ring/Bloodstone - Ability Pulse Nova check) Phantom Lancer (wafwhn;gw) Nature's Prophet (Butterfly, Remove Item Build Sections + Descriptions) Warlock (Mid guide) Items to consider (when editing guides): Crimson Guard Vanguard Cloak/Hood of Defiance/Pipe of Insight (additive effects) Bloodstone Blink Dagger Aghanim's Scepter Mekansm (replace/remove) Ring of Protection (replace/remove) Butterfly (change description) Bottle (dual runes)
- 6:00-9:0' Draft done - 9:00-10:00 Formatting/Update done (Excel Sheet, Front Page, Patch Notes) - 10:00-3:00 Breakfast/Lunch, Gathering opinions/feedback/ideas/advice New Colour for 6.82 picked out (blue) Suggestions in bottom spoiler + Show Spoiler + Aba: If you have the money for crimson guard you might as well get aghs and let someone else get it Axe: You don't need a soul ring on axe Bane: Aghs is still awful on bane Beastmaster: You're changing his role pretty significantly. He's not gonna be in the middle of the fight, he's gonna be roaring people. I don't think his items change Clinkz: Diffusal is really strong on him now Clockwerk: Crimson guard will be late Elder Titan: You won't be in the middle of the fight, don't need crimson guard Centaur: Blink is too important on him, crimson guard will be late Slardar: same Lina: Doesn't need bloodstone, there are many better items. Why are you suggesting it? I'm curious Meepo: Aghs and blink too important Necrolyte: Needs mek or mana regen. Vanguard still sucks on range. Aghs is crazy on him now Omniknight: You're not gonna have that much farm, or need it since you're extremely hard to kill Visage: You don't have the money to start with RoP Razor: No vanguard on ranged pls Sven: If you're the main damage dealer you won't need to give ur whole team the extra damage. Its a slot that doesnt give you too much. if you're a support you won't have the money unless you're really far ahead, in which case there are still better items. Tide: Vanguard doesn't stack with kraken shell Treant: crimson guard is expensive for a support Witch Doctor: He doesn't need soul ring Zeus: Blink got nerfed really hard, it'll be on cool down a lot more Viper: No vanguard on ranged pls Ogre Magi: He doesn't go mid. If anything he goes solo long lane since he has increased hp regen, ala NA Bloodseeker: His skill set is better as a support now. Arcanes force staff, max bloodrite-->bloodrage with 1 point Invoker: Nothing changed about invoker? Lone Druid: you can get a MoM on bear if you really want to, thats the only difference. Double midas is amusing but its bad, and there isnt gonna be a build better than radiance assault for bear unless they get changed. Phantom Lancer: Max lance, at least 1 point of doppleganger, a few points of stats before charge. Furion: He doesn't need butterfly Crimson guard is only good on a few heroes. Axe, bristle back, undying. Centaur and Slardar have better items. Damage block scales really poorly throughout the game, so unless you get it early its not too effective. Also, with the decrease in tower gold, early 5 man pushes arent going to be important so theres less need for the early game survival items. Blink dagger is a lot worse now | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Vanguard didn't improve, mek is still OP unless ur troll warlord who has like 1.1 int gain or some shit. Crimson guard is like "here let me spend 1600 gold to make my vanguard not better" oops rip gold. It would own in like facerush or super-early deathball lineups but those got hit preeeeetty hard by the patch. Also urn is super-godly now as it cancels blinks/regen/etc and should be even higher priority on supports now. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Urn is god tier now, for sure. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On September 25 2014 00:19 Sn0_Man wrote: Oh god torte tell me u didn't take mek off and put vanguard on heroes again. Vanguard didn't improve, mek is still OP unless ur troll warlord who has like 1.1 int gain or some shit. Crimson guard is like "here let me spend 1600 gold to make my vanguard not better" oops rip gold. It would own in like facerush or super-early deathball lineups but those got hit preeeeetty hard by the patch. Also urn is super-godly now as it cancels blinks/regen/etc and should be even higher priority on supports now. Nothing's been done yet. It's just a draft but the mana cost is crazy for heroes like Razor who go Meka (and no longer relevant for Bristleback). I'm scared to apply any changes because quite frankly, everything's fucking sideways. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Vanguard remains UNPURCHASEABLE on ranged heroes and bad 9 times out of 10 on melee. Both razor and viper can just buy a point booster + an ogre axe and have WAY BETTER stats than vanguard for cheaper on the way to their aghs. Barring a bit of regen I guess. | ||
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Rayeth
United States883 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Maybe it will be trash of ranged heroes, but it might have a place on melee heroes that need to be a brick shit house and provide team support as well. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On September 25 2014 00:37 Sn0_Man wrote: So be more intelligent with ur mana. Vanguard remains UNPURCHASEABLE on ranged heroes and bad 9 times out of 10 on melee. Both razor and viper can just buy a point booster + an ogre axe and have WAY BETTER stats than vanguard for cheaper on the way to their aghs. Barring a bit of regen I guess. I just have to debate if these heroes need to get mana boots (for Axe, yes; but Crimson Guard ain't bad to consider instead) or simply keep them the same (Phase + Meka for Razor, etc.) Another is priority of Bottle now for some heroes as well as Soul Ring and new guides for heroes that could mid or lane (Bloodseeker - Lane, Ogre Magi mid, etc.) | ||
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Rocket-Bear
3070 Posts
Crystal maiden should have Urn as core over a bracer. Urn is megabroken for it's price. And I think CM have to skill aura at level 2. So hold -> aura -> nova -> nova should be the skillbuild imo. I also think CM should buy both wards and courier but whatever. Beast Master Middle kinda don't need mana boots at all. Would say it's one of the worst boots choices for him in mid. He's not really mana starved even with a mek. Also why would you just get 1 point in summons, bird is useless at level 1. Definitely should get at least 2 or none at all and go aura. Personally I really like 2-3-0-1 atm as lvl 2 bird is really strong early game to gank with. Easy to spot people hiding behind towers when you gank. Kunkka AC and heart is kinda eeeeh as he's a hit and run type of carry like Ember. Would actually just build him like ember with a blink dagger. Witch Doctor Maledict lvl 1 is shit. It scales amazingly well though so either you level it fast or you skip it. Don't put just 1 point in it, that's just waste of mana. I personally think the spell is so good, and think you should max it but whatever, that's opinion. But 1 point is really bad. Either max it or skip it. Also think you should get an Urn on WD as well. Necro why would you skill heartstopper on level 1. If you're going to have an early point in it I think you should get it at level 4. But I personally would delay it til level 8 or something. The other two spells are really good. Also think his starting build should just be a null and a tango. He doesn't need much regen if you skill his E earlier than level 4. And I think dagon eblade was the best brood build by far. But those are getting nerfed next patch so dunno. Still think Orchid is really bad on her and doesn't hit her playstyle because you want to stay in the trees as much as possible. Manfighting just exposes her too much which is why dagon eblade was such a fitting build for her. Oh well, we will see how the patch changes it. | ||
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Rayeth
United States883 Posts
For Axe and Bristleback though, I firmly think Crimson Guard from Vanguard can be good. It might not be an every game item build, in the same way that you don't get Vanguard every game, but if you get Vanguard its a no-brainer. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xZInnZx.png) -- After casting all my spells + Meka.So maybe just bottle will be sufficient since I'll just have absolutely 0 mana with the meka nerf. | ||
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juff
Singapore4659 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
It was already appropriate for safe lane cuz he wants Basi. It's still not appropriate for mid because he won't want a Basi from mid. Basically nothing changed. On September 25 2014 00:50 Rocket-Bear wrote: Crystal maiden should have Urn as core over a bracer. Urn is megabroken for it's price. And I think CM have to skill aura at level 2. So hold -> aura -> nova -> nova should be the skillbuild imo. Nukes vs. Nuke + Aura is situational, depending on your lane's kill potential. CM's level 2 kill potential is very high (even more so now because Frostbite's rank 1 damage went up by 10) so in a lane where you can get kills, you're going to take double nukes. On September 25 2014 00:50 Rocket-Bear wrote: Beast Master Middle kinda don't need mana boots at all. Would say it's one of the worst boots choices for him in mid. He's not really mana starved even with a mek. Also why would you just get 1 point in summons, bird is useless at level 1. Definitely should get at least 2 or none at all and go aura. Personally I really like 2-3-0-1 atm as lvl 2 bird is really strong early game to gank with. Easy to spot people hiding behind towers when you gank. You can't got 3 summons after patch before 6 and it was already questionable pre-patch because against 90% of lanes the summons are worthless in lane (vs. Bottle-Crow they just feed free gold/XP to the enemy so long as they have a reasonable nuke they're Bottle-Crowing with). Post-patch Axes damage vs. creeps got reduced by a lot so you pretty much need to be 3-1-1-1 or 3-0-2-1 in order to maintain lane control and push up lanes against other Bottle heroes (which is now even more important due to double rune spawns). Mana Boots are fine. On September 25 2014 00:50 Rocket-Bear wrote: Kunkka AC and heart is kinda eeeeh as he's a hit and run type of carry like Ember. Would actually just build him like ember with a blink dagger. No. Lategame Kunkka is nothing like Ember because he has phenomenally higher base stats, and has the insanely OP CoCo's Rum buff from Ghost Ship. He needs man-fighting items because he becomes a man-fighting carry based on these two. On September 25 2014 00:50 Rocket-Bear wrote: Necro why would you skill heartstopper on level 1. If you're going to have an early point in it I think you should get it at level 4. But I personally would delay it til level 8 or something. The other two spells are really good. Also think his starting build should just be a null and a tango. He doesn't need much regen if you skill his E earlier than level 4. Heartstopper 1 is an adaptation vs. melee heroes. Even if you're going Sadist earlier, it's still wrong to skimp on regen unless you got pooled because you can trade way more aggressively at low levels with regen. On September 25 2014 00:50 Rocket-Bear wrote: And I think dagon eblade was the best brood build by far. But those are getting nerfed next patch so dunno. Still think Orchid is really bad on her and doesn't hit her playstyle because you want to stay in the trees as much as possible. Manfighting just exposes her too much which is why dagon eblade was such a fitting build for her. Oh well, we will see how the patch changes it. Orchid and E-Blade Brood have the same general solo-kill based playstyle, it's just that Orchid has smoother buildup. I do think EBlade is better, but it's much harder for a newer player to play it because it's absolutely awful to play if you aren't good enough at the hero to develop your lane advantage even with a large gap in your items (whereas Orchid builds more incrementally from the side shop). | ||
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