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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On September 19 2014 03:21 Buckyman wrote: I think the support Vengeful Spirit guide should have Ghost Scepter as a situational. I could actually. She needs another support item. Any other suggestions for VS? | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
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Dexington
Canada7276 Posts
On September 21 2014 06:29 Torte de Lini wrote: No, I'm hesistant on adding Blink Dagger to everyone as they do enhance the accuracy of their capabilities, but aren't necessary to a T. I don't want to make it a habit on adding Blink to everyone. Okay, that's great, but Blink adds so much more to Kunkka than Shadowblade does, especially post shadow blade nerf and blink buff | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
q/w/w/e/w/r/w/e/e/e if you need burst then magic missile is still good but if you only need the disable aspect then wave of terror does so much more damage. also, her vengeance aura is way too good to get that late now | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
Tortes vengefull spirit support guide : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129062086 | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
phaseboots is great too if you are the initiator in a gank because the movespeed is nice. venge doesnt have a spammable spell and his mana costs arent that high, which means tread switching, magic stick and either medallion or urn are enough to cover his mana costs. thats why arcane is not needed. you could make an argument for it if you get mek but a position 5 venge is almost never going to get one. so his boots choices comes down to ms vs hp and people prefer hp, since if you swap someone youre not gonna outrun anything anyway | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
If game is hard i eventually buy tranquills. If you are forced to get mek arcanes might be necessary. The only times when i would consider treads is if i start as a support and get a lot of farm and want to transition towards dps items. The only time i would consider phase is if i end up in a 1v1 lane or end up as farming venge from the start of the game. I don't like phase boots on support venge as 900 gold is very valueable on supports, it is half a blink / force and both make a way bigger differnece than phase boots. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On September 21 2014 08:33 Dexington wrote: Okay, that's great, but Blink adds so much more to Kunkka than Shadowblade does, especially post shadow blade nerf and blink buff You're right, I'll add it as an alternative. On September 21 2014 12:28 evilfatsh1t wrote: you might want to consider 1 point in magic missile only for vs. q/w/w/e/w/r/w/e/e/e if you need burst then magic missile is still good but if you only need the disable aspect then wave of terror does so much more damage. also, her vengeance aura is way too good to get that late now I can't think of any typical circumstance where the stun and the nuke is not more worthwhile typically than maxing wave of terror. Vengeance Aura is good, but requires you to die. The other two take priority. On September 21 2014 18:39 govie wrote: May i ask the thoughts behind the PT's and not arcanes or phaseboots on this supportvenge? I mostly went phaseboots and arcanes when i build a mek. Can someone elaborate on the thoughtproces behind the PT's? Tortes vengefull spirit support guide : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129062086 They're all situationally good, Treads is just generally preferred. I don't like Meka on VS because of the expectations for her and the need to sometimes die for venge. aura (so no time to pop up at crucial moments) | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
maxed wave and aura at lvl 10 gives your TEAM significant more damage than maxed missile and wave at 10. keep in mind that you wont be maxing all 3 skills for a long time because youre a position 5 support, on top of that youre probably going to die pretty frequently if you are the initiator of fights. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
New Skill Build: Q E E Q E R Q Q W W R W E W (1. Illuminate 2. 3. Charkra Magic 3. Mana Leak ) Kunkka (Middle/Lane) Added new tab: Initiation Item (similar to Legion Commander) Moved Shadow Blade to Initiation Item Added Blink Dagger to Initiation Item On September 22 2014 15:46 evilfatsh1t wrote: the burst in magic missile is single target. it doesnt make sense to max it over wave of terror if you expect many skirmishes or large scale fights early on. also, in the same scenarios, you would rather have higher lvls in vengeance aura so that your team does more damage as a whole than 200 more damage on one target. maxed wave and aura at lvl 10 gives your TEAM significant more damage than maxed missile and wave at 10. keep in mind that you wont be maxing all 3 skills for a long time because youre a position 5 support, on top of that youre probably going to die pretty frequently if you are the initiator of fights. It's a little too situational to fit into this guide in the sense that there is no way for me to indicate the possibility. | ||
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7086 Posts
On September 22 2014 19:39 Torte de Lini wrote: Keeper of the Light New Skill Build: Q E E Q E R Q Q W W R W E W (1. Illuminate 2. Mana Leak 3. Charkra Magic) You say the build has max Mana Leak over Chakra but the way you've written the skill order in the guide has max Chakra over max Mana Leak | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
On September 22 2014 15:24 Torte de Lini wrote: I can't think of any typical circumstance where the stun and the nuke is not more worthwhile typically than maxing wave of terror. After taking into account magic resistance, levels in Magic Missile deal 36 more damage than levels in Wave when you combo both. The -armor increases further physical damage by slightly more than 5% per level, requiring about 650 pre-armor damage after the combo to break even, unlikely during the early game. So Missile does more damage, but only slightly. Magic Missile's stun duration increases per level, but only a little. The full 3 levels adds up to about half a right click in practice. Its mana cost also increases, again by a barely significant amount. Conclusion: Max Magic Missile is better for ganking before enemies have ~925 HP. BUT Ganking isn't the only activity in the game. During a teamfight, Vengeful Spirit can often hit two or three enemies with a Wave. At 2 targets, the break-even point is about 280 physical damage on either target, and at 3 targets max Wave is better even without considering armor reduction. And finally, jungling with Wave is generally more economical than jungling with Magic Missile, since the good case of following up with physical damage on multiple targets is certain. In practice, all this means I stop skilling Magic Missile in favor of Wave of Terror whenever a deathball starts, which most commonly means 2-4-1. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
Should be built as a fighter from here on out. Treads diffusal yasha all still standard on him. RoA is almost mandatory IMO. New item looks good on some heroes. Mostly melee but can be picked up on some ranged off lanes/supports as well. Axe, clock, ET all pretty reasonable to get it on. Dark Seer as well. Troll may be able to use it well but not 100% sure on it. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Hero Guides Description Change: Hero Guides Ability Build Change: Hero Guides Item Build Change: Hero Guides Complete Revision: (I'll updating this section throughout the day [it's 6:30 AM here so I got tons of time to work). | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On September 24 2014 13:19 TheYango wrote: New item is good on a ton of heroes because the active seems to have no mana cost, which gives it a lot of flexibility. It is no manager cost, but it is still based on damage block and you have to get a vanguard for it. I can see it being good on utility heroes. I can see it being good on support heroes later. I can't see it being more crucial than pipe. The mek nerf though does give this a bit of a hole to fill, but overall it feels like an item with a very strong timing but it falls off quickly and is pretty expensive. LD is going to change a lot. Blademail should be super good on the bear. I think it actually would just straight up make the hero great. Still with 300 mana there is a lot of items that can now work. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
This item fixes Vanguard's only issue of being a dead-end item. The two components are fantastic without any limitations of slot-efficiency and were otherwise only limited by it (Buckler is a crazy good item that is only held back by being an 800 gold item that eats a slot if you aren't making Mek). Like, the item's strength is that it has one of the smoothest buildups of all time because it goes through 3 highly efficient early fighting components (Buckler, Vit, Stout) and puts them into ONE slot. | ||
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