• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:03
CEST 05:03
KST 12:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-66SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)11Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE15
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 2/8 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week
Tourneys
SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles #19 2-Days Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
[Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Clem Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3261 users

In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 251

Forum Index > The Tavern
Post a Reply
Prev 1 249 250 251 252 253 371 Next
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-19 19:32:01
December 19 2015 07:34 GMT
#5001
ed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-19 08:07:16
December 19 2015 08:03 GMT
#5002
I did some smoke tests on Iron Talon for junglers.
Doom - not functional as a starting item (Devour eats its lunch and he needs his Basilius ASAP)
Legion Commander - Excellent as a starting item. (level 6 by 6:00, having not spent much on regen items)
Sand King - Surprisingly useful as an early-game item. The limiting factor in how quickly he can clear non-stacked camps between stacks is how long it takes Sandstorm to kill a large centaur/wildwing/satyr, and a Talon swipe neatly synchs up the large creep with the small ones. So it actually lets him clear camps 40% faster.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 19 2015 19:11 GMT
#5003
On December 19 2015 17:03 Buckyman wrote:
I did some smoke tests on Iron Talon for junglers.
Doom - not functional as a starting item (Devour eats its lunch and he needs his Basilius ASAP)
Legion Commander - Excellent as a starting item. (level 6 by 6:00, having not spent much on regen items)
Sand King - Surprisingly useful as an early-game item. The limiting factor in how quickly he can clear non-stacked camps between stacks is how long it takes Sandstorm to kill a large centaur/wildwing/satyr, and a Talon swipe neatly synchs up the large creep with the small ones. So it actually lets him clear camps 40% faster.


Wow, never consider Sand King to use it

What was your skill build for Legion Commander?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-19 19:34:12
December 19 2015 19:31 GMT
#5004
6.85 Planning Posts

Personal Notes

Ability Changes:

Crystal Maiden (earlier Arcane Aura?)
Dazzle (revert to Poison Touch max, Shallow Grave last)
Invoker (ability order completed changed)
Outworld Devourer (Astral Imprisonment change + Arcane Orb; max Arcane Orb? Update Descriptions)
Riki (New abilities + update descriptions: Perm. Invis maxed first)
Terrorblade (double-check ability build)
Wraith King (value point in Vampric Aura, update description)


Item Changes:

Bristleback (Include Aghanim’s Scepter)
Clinkz (consider non-Deso build)
Drow Ranger (Manta Style + Aghanim’s Scepter?)
Earth Spirit (int. reduced -> arcane boots?, update Geomagnetic Grip Agh’s change)
Huksar (reduced Berserker’s Blood -> potentially item purchase order change)
Legion of Commander (Agh’s -> Luxury Items?)
Magnus: Add Aghanim’s to Extension Items
Night Stalker (more carry oriented items; see feedback)
Shadow Fiend (maybe Agh’s, Luxury Items? Not feeling its value though)
Sven (move away from MoM; see feedback)
Vengeful Spirit (double-check if Aghanim’s, description update)


Just Description Changes:

Beastmaster (Lane/Middle): Wild Axes targeting change
Lycan (Jungle/Lane): Update Lycan Wolves, Shapeshift changes
Medusa: Mystic Snake description changes
Oracle (Lane/Middle): Update Fortune’s End)
Pudge (update Aghanim’s Scepter)
Slardar (typo to general hero description)
Tidehunter (add Aghanim’s Scepter to Extension Items)
Tiny (double-check Craggy Exterior description)
Winter Wyvern (update Winter’s Curse description)
Iron Branch new ability; its potential uses (which is?), tango synergy
Tangoes; double regen on Iron Branch tree
Orb of Venom no longer UAM; double-check


All Changes:

Alchemist (Midlde): Octarine Core build
Death Prophet (new ability, new description, potentially new item build)
Doom (Jungle) (re-max Q, new ability, new descriptions and potentially new item build)
Doom (Lane) (new ability, new description, potentially new item build)
Faceless Void (new ability, new description for Timewalk and potentially new item build)
Kunkka (max Tidebringer first? Update descriptions for Tidebringer + Torrent and potentially new item build, add Aghanim’s?)
Lone Druid (Lane/Jungle): New Ability + description, maybe item build and maybe ability build)
Sand King (Aghanim’s delayed? Update description for Agh’s, Max Caustic Finale earlier for Agh’s timing?)
Silencer (Lane/Middle): Arcane Curse new ability and description, ability build changed to max Arcane Curse 2nd?, add extension orb items due to Glaives of Wisdom no longer orb?


New Item Hero Application:

Faerie Fire:
Starting or Early Game Items:
Junglers, carries that need last-hitting in lane (low HP pool)

Dragon Lance:
Core or Situational Items
Ranged Carries (Sniper, Drow Ranger) who want more survivability

Aether Lens:
Extension Items
Initiators
Nuke Casters (Lina, Zeus)

Iron Talon:
Early Game
Situational Items
Late-Game Carries (Phantom Assassin, Anti-Mage), may replace Battlefury; replace split-carries (Naga/Alchemist), etc.


Key Notes:

Change Name to 6.86
Add another Observer Ward to Starting Items for key heroes
Add (Middle/Lane/Jungle) to Core Items tab
Consider Bottle to Side-Lane Heroes
Re-adjust Starting Items for Supports due to Animal Courier cost
Consider Crimson Guard on tanky heroes (Tidehunter, Bristleback, Magnus, Beastmaster, Centaur Warrunner, Treant Protector, etc.)
Consider Hood of Defiance on tanky heroes (Pudge, Centaur Warrunner, etc.)
Quelling Blade cost reduced; double-check Jungle heroes (Ursa, Doom, Lifestealer, Lycan); add healing salve if possible starting items
See where Rod of Atos fits on situational items for heroes
Veil of Discord on Silencer, Outworld Devourer, Skywrath Mage; whichever hero gains from int/damage.
Crimson Guard double-check on Centaur, etc. (other tanky heroes, double-check)

+ Show Spoiler +
Unchanged Heroes:
Bane
Batrider
Bloodseeker (Lane/Middle/Jungle)
Bounty Hunter
Broodmother
Centaur Warrunner
Chaos Knight
Chen
Dark Seer
Dragon Knight (Lane/Middle)
Ember Spirit (Lane/Middle)
Enchantress
Gyrocopter (Lane/Middle)
Jakiro
Keeper of the Light
Lifestealer (Jungle/Lifestealer)
Lion
Luna
Meepo
Mirana
Morphling
Naga Siren (Lane/Middle)
Nature’s Prophet
Necrophos
Nyx Assassin (Lane/Middle)
Ogre Magi (holy shit insane tank)
Phantom Assassin
Phoenix (Lane/Middle)
Puck
Pugna
Queen of Pain
Rubick
Shadow Demon
Shadow Shaman (Lane/Middle)
Skywrath Mage (Lane/Middle)
Slardar
Storm Spirit (check if get 1 point in CC/Static Grapple)
Templar Assassin
Timbersaw
Tinker
Treant Protector
Troll Warlord (Lane/Middle)
Tusk
Undying
Ursa (Lane/Jungle)
Venomancer
Visage
Warlock (Lane/Middle)
Weaver (Lane/Middle)
Windranger (Lane/Middle)
Witch Doctor


[image loading]

New color for patch 6.86 (Light Pink)


*Reference Formatting Post
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-19 19:36:23
December 19 2015 19:31 GMT
#5005
Final Total Subscriptions (6.85): 110,796,860



DRAFT Patch 6.86

Unchanged may overlap with new item additions
+ Show Spoiler +



(Lane/Middle/Jungle)






(Lane/Middle)
(Lane/Middle)

(Lane/Middle)


(Jungle/Lane)





(Lane/Middle)


(Lane/Middle)


(Lane/Middle)





(Lane/Middle)
(Lane/Middle)





(Lane/Middle)


(Lane/Jungle)


(Lane/Middle)
(Lane/Middle)
(Lane/Middle)


Skill Changes subject to change
(Max Tidebringer first)
(ability order completed changed)
(Astral Imprisonment change + Arcane Orb; max Arcane Orb? Update Descriptions)
(New abilities + update descriptions: Perm. Invis maxed first)
(value point in Vampric Aura, update description)
(new ability, new description)
(Lane/Jungle) (re-max Q, new descriptions and new ability)
(new ability build)

Item Changes subject to change
(Middle) Octarine build
Arc Warden: Lane -> Ring of Aquila; Middle -> Later Bottle (see feedback)
(Lane/Jungle): Vanguard to Core Items, Blade Mail to Situational, Crimson Guard to Extension
Moved Crimson Guard to Extension Items, Heart of Tarrasque to Luxury Items
(Lane/Jungle) (adjust with new ability and new item)
(new item build too)
(redo entire item build, update Geomagnetic Grip Agh’s desc. change)
: Add Aghanim’s to Extension Items
(more carry oriented items; see feedback)
(move away from MoM; see feedback)
(Aghanim's)
(double-check if Aghanim’s, description update)

Crimson Guard (some heroes may already have it): (Jungle/Lane), (Lane/Middle), , , (Lane/Middle), (Lane/Jungle), ,

Rod of Atos (some heroes may already have it): (Lane/Middle), , , , , , , , (Lane/Middle),

starting items rehaul (see feedback)
Iron Branch new ability; its potential uses, tango synergy
Tangoes; double regen on Iron Branch tree
Orb of Venom no longer UAM; double-check

New Items Application subject to change
Faerie Fire:
???

Dragon Lance:








Aether Lens:






























Iron Talon:
(jungle)
(jungle)
(jungle)
(jungle)
(jungle)

New Description Changes
(Lane/Middle): Wild Axes targeting change
(Jungle/Lane) Update Lycan Wolves, Shapeshift changes
Mystic Snake description changes
(Lane/Middle): Update Fortune’s End)
(update Aghanim’s Scepter)
(typo to general hero description)
(add Aghanim’s Scepter to Extension Items)
(iron branch validity on abilities)
(double-check Craggy Exterior description)
(iron branch validity on abilities)
(update Winter’s Curse description)

Potential New Guides subject to change
Arc Warden (Lane)
Arc Warden (Middle)

6.86 Inquiries and Feedback
  • (Iron Talon?)
  • (earlier Arcane Aura?)
  • (revert to Poison Touch max, Shallow Grave last)
  • (new item build?)
  • (aether lens?)
  • (Dragon Lance?)
  • (aghanim's?)
  • (Jungle build?)
  • (Tranquil + Soul Ring instead of Arcane?)
  • (Iron Talon?)
  • (figure out Sand King new item/skill build, Iron Talon?)
  • (double-check item/skill build, update new ability description)
  • (double-check ability build)
  • Bottle: Bottle from side-shop


Misc. Additions and Changes
  • Change Name to 6.86
  • Add another Observer Ward to Starting Items for key heroes
  • Add (Middle/Lane/Jungle) to Core Items tab
  • Re-adjust Starting Items for Supports due to Animal Courier cost (see feedback)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
December 19 2015 19:34 GMT
#5006
am iron talon is if u have such a bad lane that ur forced to jungle early and will be skipping bfury

ogre u can buy arcanes and then disassemble later into lens
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-20 08:36:49
December 19 2015 19:34 GMT
#5007
Schedule (PST)
Day 2 (December 16)
- 11:00AM-2PM: Publish draft versions of Arc Warden (Lane & Middle), adjustments planned when returned

Day 2 (December 17)
- 9:00AM-2:00PM: On the bus tour to the Grand Canyon; reading patch notes and categorizing changes during long drive

Day 3 (December 18)
- 10:00PM-11:30: During flight home, revise changes based on feedback
- 11:30PM-2AM (Dec. 19): Arrived home, finalizing division of planned additions and changes

Day 4 (December 19)
- 10:00am-11:30: detailing new items release with key identified heroes, compiling double-check questions
- 11:30AM-5:30PM: Applying Initial Changes to Hero Builds
- 5:30-6:30: Break and Lunch
- 6:30-7:30: Rebuilding revised heroes (e.g Faceless Void, Death Prophet, etc.)
- 7:30-9:00: Dinner/Shopping for Groceries
- 9:00-12:30AM: Applying new items and adjusting their place in new heroes (Iron Talon, Aether Lens, Dragon Lance, etc.)

Day 5 (December 20)
- 9:30AM-

Total Elapsed Time (including lunch/dinner): 13 hours

Total changes made: approx. changes
Guides applied
Guides remain unchanged
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-20 20:37:36
December 19 2015 19:36 GMT
#5008
Applied Changes: September 25 (11:30 PST)
(description changes not noted, assume listed hero builds have had their item/ability descriptions updated)

Abaddon
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Removed Utility Items Tab

Alchemist (Lane)
New Skill Build: E Q W W W R W Q Q Q R E E E R (1. Unstable Concoction 2. Acid Spray 3. Greevil's Greed)
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items
Added Bottle to Core Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Armlet of Mordiggan to Core Items
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Sange and Yasha to Core Items
Removed Soul Ring
Removed Maelstrom

Alchemist (Middle)
New Skill Build: E Q Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W R (1. Acid Spray 2. Greevil's Greed 3. Unstable Concoction
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Quelling Blade to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch to Starting Items
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Added Radiance to "Early Game"
Added Boots of Travel to Core Items
Added Manta Style to Core Items
Added Octarine Core to Core Items
Removed Medallion of Courage
Removed Magic Wand
Removed Shadow Blade
Removed Solar Crest

Ancient Apparition (Lane)
Ancient Apparition (Middle)
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Early Game
Moved Rod of Atos to Extension Items
Removed Urn of Shadows
Removed Ghost Scepter
Removed Scythe of Vyse

New Guide
Arc Warden (Lane)

Skill Build: E Q E Q E R E W Q Q R W W W R (1. Spark Wraith 2. Flux 3. Magnetic Field)
Starting Items: 3x Iron Branch, Tangos, Clarity x3, Healing Salve
Early Game: Ring of Basilius, Hand of Midas, Boots of Speed, Ring of Aquila
Core Items: Necromonicon 3, Boots of Travel, Magic Wand
Utility Items: Healing Salve, Enchanted Mango
Situational Items: Dagon, Diffusal Blade
Extension Items: Boots of Travel 2, Manta Style, Scythe of Vyse, Divine Rapier
Luxury Items: Refresher's Orb

New Guide
Arc Warden (Middle)

Skill Build: E Q E Q E R E W Q Q R W W W R (1. Spark Wraith 2. Flux 3. Magnetic Field)
Starting Items: 3x Iron Branch, Tangos
Early Game: Boots of Speed, Hand of Midas, Bottle
Core Items: Necromonicon 3, Boots of Travel,
Utility Items: Healing Salve, Enchanted Mango
Situational Items: Drums of Endurance, Blink Dagger, Diffusal Blade
Extension Items: Black King Bar, Manta Style, Scythe of Vyse, Divine Rapier
Luxury Items: Refresher's Orb

Axe (Jungle)
Axe (Lane)
Moved Crimson guard to Extension Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse

Bane
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items

Batrider
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Removed Utility Items Tab (and all support items such as Wards and Smoke of Deceit)

Beastmaster (Lane)
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items

Bloodseeker (Jungle)
Added Iron Talon to Starting Items
Removed Stout Shield
Removed Quelling Blade

Bloodseeker (Lane)
Bloodseeker (Middle)
Added Healing Slave to Starting Items

Brewmaster (Lane)
Added Clarity to Starting Items

Bristleback
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Luxury Items
Moved Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items
Moved Crimson Guard to Extension Items
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Luxury Items

Centaur Warrunner
Moved Pipe of Insight to Core Items
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items

Chaos Knight
Moved Quelling Blade to Starting Items

Chen
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Clarity to Starting Items

Clinkz
Added Dragon Lance to Extension Items
Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Crystal Maiden
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items

Dark Seer
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse

Dazzle
Moved Guardian Greaves to Core Items
Removed Medallion of Courage

Death Prophet
Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Octarine Core to Extension Items
Moved Shiva's Guard to Luxury Items
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Luxury Items
Removed Mekansm
Removed Scythe of Vyse

Disruptor
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items
Removed Blink Dagger

Doom (Lane)
New Skill Build: Q W W E W R W Q Q Q R E E E R (1. Scorched Earth 2. Devour 3. Infernal Blade)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Core Items
Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Quelling Blade

Doom (Jungle)
New Skill Build: Q W W Q Q R Q W W E R E E E (1. Devour 2. Scorched Earth 3. Infernal Blade)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Quelling Blade

Enigma
Added Sobi Mask to Starting Items
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Situational Items
Removed Clarity

Faceless Void
New Skill Build: Q E E Q E R E Q Q W R W W W R (1. Time Lock 2. Time Walk 3. Time Dilation)
Added Blink Dagger to Core Items
Added Sange and Yasha to Situational Items
Moved Refresher Orb to Extension Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Luxury Items
Moved Daedalus to Luxury Items
Removed Quelling Blade
Removed Maelstrom
Removed Battle Fury
Removed Moon Shard

Gyrocopter (Lane)
Gyrocopter (Middle)
Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items

Invoker
New Skill Build: E Q E Q E Q E Q W E R R E W E R W Q Q Q W W W W R (1. Exort 2. Quas 3. Wex)
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Faerie Fire x2 to Starting Items
Added Necromonicon - Level 3 to Situational Items
Moved Urn of Shadows to Early Game
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Core Items
Moved Drums of Endurance to Core Items (Middle)
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Removed Iron Branch x2
Removed Black King Bar
Removed Desolator
Removed Eye of Skadi
Removed Blink Dagger

Jakiro
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items

Keeper of the Light
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Removed Shiva's Guard

Leshrac (Lane)
Added Circlet of Nobility
Added Iron Branch
Removed Utility Items Tab
Removed Animal Courier
Removed Observer Ward

Lifestealer (Jungle)
Added Iron Talon to Starting Items
Removed Stout Shield
Removed Quelling Blade

Lion
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Removed Clarity

Lone Druid (Jungle)
New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q W Q W R E R E E E R (1. Summon Spirit Bear 2. Rabid 3. Savage Roar)
Added Iron Talon to Starting Items (Bear)
Added Tangos to Starting Items (Bear)
Added Orb of Venom to Extension Items (Bear)
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Town Portal Scroll
Removed Moon Shard

Lone Druid (Lane)
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Summon Spirit Bear 2. Rabid 3. Savage Roar)
Added Quelling Blade to Starting Items (Bear)
Added Orb of Venom to Extension Items (Bear)
Removed Town Portal Scroll
Removed Moon Shard

Luna
Added Circlet of Nobility to Starting Items
Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items
Removed Iron Branch

Lycan (Jungle)
Added Iron Talons
Removed Stout Shield
Removed Quelling Blade

Ogre Magi
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items'
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items
Removed Guardian Greaves

Omniknight
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items

Oracle (Lane)
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Guardian Greaves to Core Items
Removed Healing Slave
Removed Mekansm
Removed Ethereal Blade

Oracle (Middle)
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Guardian Greaves to Core Items
Removed Healing Slave
Removed Mekansm
Removed Orchid of Malevolence
Removed Dagon
Removed Ethereal Blade

Outworld Devourer
New Skill Build: W E Q E Q R E E Q Q R W W W R (1. Essence Aura 2. Arcane Orb 3. Astral Imprisonment)
Added Null Talisman to Starting Items
Added Bottle to Core Items
Removed Iron Branch x2
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Magic Wand
Removed Mekansm
Removed Aghanin's Scepter

Pugna
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items
Removed Blink Dagger

Riki
New Skill Build: E W E W Q R E E W W R Q Q Q R (1. Cloak and Dagger 2. Blink Strike 3. Smoke Screen)

Rubick
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse

Sand King
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Added Ethereal Blade to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse

Shadow Demon
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse

Skywrath Mage (Lane)
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Rod of Atos to Situational Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items

Skywrath Mage (Middle)
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Rod of Atos to Situational Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items

Templar Assassin
Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items

Tidehunter
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items
Moved Lotus Orb to Situational Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Removed Heaven's Halberd

Ursa (Jungle)
Added Iron Talons to Starting Items
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Quelling Blade
Removed Stout Shield

Vengeful Spirit
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Glimmer Cape to Situational Items

Witch Doctor
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items

Winter Wyvern
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Removed Ghost Scepter
Removed Lotus Orb
Removed Scythe of Vyse



Inquiries:

Faerie Fire applicability?
Side-Shop Bottle?

Kunkka (Lane)
Kunkka (Middle)
Change Skill Build?
Aghanim's?

Invoker
Check Skill/Item Build

Outworld Devourer
Double-check skill build
Rod of Atos Extension?
Remove Bottle?
Aether Lens?

Arc Warden (Lane)
Arc Warden (Middle)
Consider maxing Flux over W (for Lane? Middle? Or Both?)
Starting Items rework
Boots before Hand of Midas

Death Prophet
Check Item Build (Drums slot, Rod of Atos slot, Heart slot, Aether Lens slot)

Doom (Lane)
Doom (Jungle)
Double-check Skill Build (max Q second or E second)

Beastmaster (Lane)
Beastmaster (Middle)
Double-check differences in item builds (Necro Core, but situational for other? Tranquil/Soul Ring -> Side-Shop bottle?)

Centaur Warrunner
Blade Mail to Extension?
Black King Bar back to Core? Then Pipe of Insight to Situational Items?
Crimson Guard to Situational Items?

Luna
Templar Assassin
Keep Dragon Lance?

Lone Druid (Jungle)
Lycan (Jungle)
Ursa (Jungle)
Lifestealer (Jungle)
Bloodseeker
Double-check jungling still possible with just Iron Talon + Tangoes

Batrider
Aether Lens higher priority? (currently Extension Items)



To-do:

Iron Branch/Tangoes Description
Starting Items Rework

Earth Spirit entirely
Night Stalker
Sven
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
December 20 2015 00:40 GMT
#5009
Why is Dazzle getting max poison touch first over shallow grave? I maybe missed some discussion but I'm 99% sure that's really really bad.

Disruptor with the new lens is pretty good, potentially also Bane, maybe Dazzle but I don't think so most games. Pretty good on Lion. Late game item for rubick potentially, but blink is still better.

For Faerie Fire, it's nice to pick up if you have some spare gold after buying your starting items, and don't want to pick up a fast Stout or wand or something, but it's generally not particularly amazing.

Antimage doesn't want Iron Talon, maybe if you could disassemble it it would be OK because you can reuse the RoP and QB but you can't so it's a waste of gold.

TA maybe wants Dragon Lance, but the item isn't that great on most heroes.

Lot of pubs building aghs on Tidehunter, but I'm 99% sure it's awful and completely useless. Looks really cool though.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-20 00:44:49
December 20 2015 00:44 GMT
#5010
On December 20 2015 09:40 Birdie wrote:
Why is Dazzle getting max poison touch first over shallow grave? I maybe missed some discussion but I'm 99% sure that's really really bad.

Disruptor with the new lens is pretty good, potentially also Bane, maybe Dazzle but I don't think so most games. Pretty good on Lion. Late game item for rubick potentially, but blink is still better.

For Faerie Fire, it's nice to pick up if you have some spare gold after buying your starting items, and don't want to pick up a fast Stout or wand or something, but it's generally not particularly amazing.

Antimage doesn't want Iron Talon, maybe if you could disassemble it it would be OK because you can reuse the RoP and QB but you can't so it's a waste of gold.

TA maybe wants Dragon Lance, but the item isn't that great on most heroes.

Lot of pubs building aghs on Tidehunter, but I'm 99% sure it's awful and completely useless. Looks really cool though.


They're initial draft thoughts for when I get to that hero, I consider the value of it potentially changing.

Thanks for the tips on Faerie Fire and and such

see applied changes for what's being published
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
tehh4ck3r
Profile Joined August 2013
Magrathea7084 Posts
December 20 2015 00:50 GMT
#5011
recently ive seen invokers starting with 1 null + 2 faerie fires, its a pretty good start for invoker since he lacks base damage
AdministratorIn those days, spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-20 08:36:20
December 20 2015 08:03 GMT
#5012
rest assured, I'm still here updating changes. ugh...

edit: going to bed.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-20 20:39:19
December 20 2015 08:42 GMT
#5013
personal note:

To do tomorrow:

Draft list of heroes that could potentially utilize Faerie Fire
Draft list of heroes that could potentially utilize Side-Shop Bottle

Revise entire builds for following heroes:
Earth Spirit entirely
Night Stalker
Sven
Sand King
Ember Spirit entirely

Consider including 3x iron branch in builds that have room for it

Update description for Iron Branch + Tangos

Count up unchanged hero builds and fix:

Title -> 6.86
Date: 20/12/15
New Tab after Last updated
Core Items (Lane/Jungle/Middle) addition

https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
December 20 2015 15:33 GMT
#5014
On December 20 2015 09:50 tehh4ck3r wrote:
recently ive seen invokers starting with 1 null + 2 faerie fires, its a pretty good start for invoker since he lacks base damage


yeah, quas provides enough regen as it is, so this is in lieu of a salve. its definitely the build.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-20 19:36:42
December 20 2015 18:51 GMT
#5015
I updated Invoker

Arc Warden updated to max Flux first
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Thetwinmasters
Profile Joined January 2015
3578 Posts
December 20 2015 20:05 GMT
#5016
why would you max flux first on zet
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 20 2015 20:14 GMT
#5017
You can even-level them and be like 3-0-3-1 at 7, but there's not really a reason you need rank 4 Flux so early because what you really level it for is the range.

Though for guide-level players Flux is probably easier to use since they won't fully exploiting Spark Wraith's potential on hidden spots.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-20 20:34:51
December 20 2015 20:34 GMT
#5018
On December 21 2015 05:05 Thetwinmasters wrote:
why would you max flux first on zet


Both seem to have applicable value.

On December 21 2015 05:14 TheYango wrote:
You can even-level them and be like 3-0-3-1 at 7, but there's not really a reason you need rank 4 Flux so early because what you really level it for is the range.

Though for guide-level players Flux is probably easier to use since they won't fully exploiting Spark Wraith's potential on hidden spots.


I think I will even-level them.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 20 2015 20:38 GMT
#5019
All guides are updated.

I have chosen not to update descriptions for Iron Branch + Tangos because it is simply too much work. Just changing text and publishing large amounts of guides consumes an extreme amount of time simply because the UI is such absolute and utter trash.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-20 21:48:18
December 20 2015 20:39 GMT
#5020
To-Do:

Ember Spirit (Lane/Middle)
Nyx Assassin (Middle)

Draft list of heroes that could potentially utilize Faerie Fire
Draft list of heroes that could potentially utilize Side-Shop Bottle

Consider including 3x iron branch in builds that have room for it
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Prev 1 249 250 251 252 253 371 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#93
PiGStarcraft616
CranKy Ducklings96
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft616
RuFF_SC2 146
Ketroc 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4080
GuemChi 2586
Calm 770
Artosis 640
Bale 21
Terrorterran 9
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
summit1g9695
Coldzera 1234
minikerr129
Other Games
Fnx 890
JimRising 580
C9.Mang0459
Maynarde118
JuggernautJason94
ViBE86
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1105
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 55
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 53
• davetesta31
• mYiSmile113
• Mapu12
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP8
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• intothetv
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo523
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 57m
Kung Fu Cup
7h 57m
Replay Cast
20h 57m
The PondCast
1d 6h
INu's Battles
1d 7h
Percival vs Cure
Classic vs Clem
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Escore
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs SHIN
Clem vs Solar
Serral vs Rogue
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
The Patches Monday
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-03
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.