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6.86 Planning Posts
Personal Notes
Ability Changes:
Crystal Maiden (earlier Arcane Aura?)
Dazzle (revert to Poison Touch max, Shallow Grave last)
Invoker (ability order completed changed)
Outworld Devourer (Astral Imprisonment change + Arcane Orb; max Arcane Orb? Update Descriptions)
Riki (New abilities + update descriptions: Perm. Invis maxed first)
Terrorblade (double-check ability build)
Wraith King (value point in Vampric Aura, update description)
Item Changes:
Bristleback (Include Aghanim’s Scepter)
Clinkz (consider non-Deso build)
Drow Ranger (Manta Style + Aghanim’s Scepter?)
Earth Spirit (int. reduced -> arcane boots?, update Geomagnetic Grip Agh’s change)
Huksar (reduced Berserker’s Blood -> potentially item purchase order change)
Legion of Commander (Agh’s -> Luxury Items?)
Magnus: Add Aghanim’s to Extension Items
Night Stalker (more carry oriented items; see feedback)
Shadow Fiend (maybe Agh’s, Luxury Items? Not feeling its value though)
Sven (move away from MoM; see feedback)
Vengeful Spirit (double-check if Aghanim’s, description update)
Just Description Changes:
Beastmaster (Lane/Middle): Wild Axes targeting change
Lycan (Jungle/Lane): Update Lycan Wolves, Shapeshift changes
Medusa: Mystic Snake description changes
Oracle (Lane/Middle): Update Fortune’s End)
Pudge (update Aghanim’s Scepter)
Slardar (typo to general hero description)
Tidehunter (add Aghanim’s Scepter to Extension Items)
Tiny (double-check Craggy Exterior description)
Winter Wyvern (update Winter’s Curse description)
Iron Branch new ability; its potential uses (which is?), tango synergy
Tangoes; double regen on Iron Branch tree
Orb of Venom no longer UAM; double-check
All Changes:
Alchemist (Midlde): Octarine Core build
Death Prophet (new ability, new description, potentially new item build)
Doom (Jungle) (re-max Q, new ability, new descriptions and potentially new item build)
Doom (Lane) (new ability, new description, potentially new item build)
Faceless Void (new ability, new description for Timewalk and potentially new item build)
Kunkka (max Tidebringer first? Update descriptions for Tidebringer + Torrent and potentially new item build, add Aghanim’s?)
Lone Druid (Lane/Jungle): New Ability + description, maybe item build and maybe ability build)
Sand King (Aghanim’s delayed? Update description for Agh’s, Max Caustic Finale earlier for Agh’s timing?)
Silencer (Lane/Middle): Arcane Curse new ability and description, ability build changed to max Arcane Curse 2nd?, add extension orb items due to Glaives of Wisdom no longer orb?
New Item Hero Application:
Faerie Fire:
Starting or Early Game Items:
Junglers, carries that need last-hitting in lane (low HP pool)
Dragon Lance:
Core or Situational Items
Ranged Carries (Sniper, Drow Ranger) who want more survivability
Aether Lens:
Extension Items
Initiators
Nuke Casters (Lina, Zeus)
Iron Talon:
Early Game
Situational Items
Late-Game Carries (Phantom Assassin, Anti-Mage), may replace Battlefury; replace split-carries (Naga/Alchemist), etc.
Key Notes:
Change Name to 6.86
Add another Observer Ward to Starting Items for key heroes
Add (Middle/Lane/Jungle) to Core Items tab
Consider Bottle to Side-Lane Heroes
Re-adjust Starting Items for Supports due to Animal Courier cost
Consider Crimson Guard on tanky heroes (Tidehunter, Bristleback, Magnus, Beastmaster, Centaur Warrunner, Treant Protector, etc.)
Consider Hood of Defiance on tanky heroes (Pudge, Centaur Warrunner, etc.)
Quelling Blade cost reduced; double-check Jungle heroes (Ursa, Doom, Lifestealer, Lycan); add healing salve if possible starting items
See where Rod of Atos fits on situational items for heroes
Veil of Discord on Silencer, Outworld Devourer, Skywrath Mage; whichever hero gains from int/damage.
Crimson Guard double-check on Centaur, etc. (other tanky heroes, double-check)
+ Show Spoiler +Unchanged Heroes:
Bane
Batrider
Bloodseeker (Lane/Middle/Jungle)
Bounty Hunter
Broodmother
Centaur Warrunner
Chaos Knight
Chen
Dark Seer
Dragon Knight (Lane/Middle)
Ember Spirit (Lane/Middle)
Enchantress
Gyrocopter (Lane/Middle)
Jakiro
Keeper of the Light
Lifestealer (Jungle/Lifestealer)
Lion
Luna
Meepo
Mirana
Morphling
Naga Siren (Lane/Middle)
Nature’s Prophet
Necrophos
Nyx Assassin (Lane/Middle)
Ogre Magi (holy shit insane tank)
Phantom Assassin
Phoenix (Lane/Middle)
Puck
Pugna
Queen of Pain
Rubick
Shadow Demon
Shadow Shaman (Lane/Middle)
Skywrath Mage (Lane/Middle)
Slardar
Storm Spirit (check if get 1 point in CC/Static Grapple)
Templar Assassin
Timbersaw
Tinker
Treant Protector
Troll Warlord (Lane/Middle)
Tusk
Undying
Ursa (Lane/Jungle)
Venomancer
Visage
Warlock (Lane/Middle)
Weaver (Lane/Middle)
Windranger (Lane/Middle)
Witch Doctor
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/63zp1Sy.png) New color for patch 6.86 (Light Pink)
*Reference Formatting Post
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Final Total Subscriptions (6.85): 110,796,860
DRAFT Patch 6.86
Unchanged may overlap with new item additions
+ Show Spoiler +
Skill Changes subject to change
 (Max Tidebringer first)
 (ability order completed changed)
(Astral Imprisonment change + Arcane Orb; max Arcane Orb? Update Descriptions)
 (New abilities + update descriptions: Perm. Invis maxed first)
(value point in Vampric Aura, update description)
(new ability, new description)
 (Lane/Jungle) (re-max Q, new descriptions and new ability)
(new ability build)
Item Changes subject to change
 (Middle) Octarine build
Arc Warden: Lane -> Ring of Aquila; Middle -> Later Bottle (see feedback)
 (Lane/Jungle): Vanguard to Core Items, Blade Mail to Situational, Crimson Guard to Extension
 Moved Crimson Guard to Extension Items, Heart of Tarrasque to Luxury Items
(Lane/Jungle) (adjust with new ability and new item)
(new item build too)
(redo entire item build, update Geomagnetic Grip Agh’s desc. change)
 : Add Aghanim’s to Extension Items
(more carry oriented items; see feedback)
 (move away from MoM; see feedback)
 (Aghanim's)
(double-check if Aghanim’s, description update)
Crimson Guard (some heroes may already have it): (Jungle/Lane),  (Lane/Middle), , , (Lane/Middle), (Lane/Jungle), ,
Rod of Atos (some heroes may already have it): (Lane/Middle),  , ,  ,  , , , , (Lane/Middle),
starting items rehaul (see feedback)
Iron Branch new ability; its potential uses, tango synergy
Tangoes; double regen on Iron Branch tree
Orb of Venom no longer UAM; double-check
New Items Application subject to change
Faerie Fire:
???
Dragon Lance:
Aether Lens:
Iron Talon:
 (jungle)
 (jungle)
(jungle)
(jungle)
 (jungle)
New Description Changes
(Lane/Middle): Wild Axes targeting change
(Jungle/Lane) Update Lycan Wolves, Shapeshift changes
 Mystic Snake description changes
(Lane/Middle): Update Fortune’s End)
(update Aghanim’s Scepter)
 (typo to general hero description)
(add Aghanim’s Scepter to Extension Items)
(iron branch validity on abilities)
 (double-check Craggy Exterior description)
(iron branch validity on abilities)
(update Winter’s Curse description)
Potential New Guides subject to change
Arc Warden (Lane)
Arc Warden (Middle)
6.86 Inquiries and Feedback
-
 (Iron Talon?)
- (earlier Arcane Aura?)
- (revert to Poison Touch max, Shallow Grave last)
- (new item build?)
- (aether lens?)
- (Dragon Lance?)
- (aghanim's?)
- (Jungle build?)
- (Tranquil + Soul Ring instead of Arcane?)
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 (Iron Talon?)
- (figure out Sand King new item/skill build, Iron Talon?)
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 (double-check item/skill build, update new ability description)
- (double-check ability build)
- Bottle: Bottle from side-shop
Misc. Additions and Changes
- Change Name to 6.86
- Add another Observer Ward to Starting Items for key heroes
- Add (Middle/Lane/Jungle) to Core Items tab
- Re-adjust Starting Items for Supports due to Animal Courier cost (see feedback)
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Schedule (PST)
Day 1 (December 16)
- 11:00AM-2PM: Publish draft versions of Arc Warden (Lane & Middle), adjustments planned when returned
Day 2 (December 17)
- 9:00AM-2:00PM: On the bus tour to the Grand Canyon; reading patch notes and categorizing changes during long drive
Day 3 (December 18)
- 10:00PM-11:30: During flight home, revise changes based on feedback
- 11:30PM-2AM (Dec. 19): Arrived home, finalizing division of planned additions and changes
Day 4 (December 19)
- 10:00am-11:30: detailing new items release with key identified heroes, compiling double-check questions
- 11:30AM-5:30PM: Applying Initial Changes to Hero Builds
- 5:30-6:30: Break and Lunch
- 6:30-7:30: Rebuilding revised heroes (e.g Faceless Void, Death Prophet, etc.)
- 7:30-9:00: Dinner/Shopping for Groceries
- 9:00-12:30AM: Applying new items and adjusting their place in new heroes (Iron Talon, Aether Lens, Dragon Lance, etc.)
Day 5 (December 20)
- 10:30AM-1:00PM: Update Titles and descriptions, bring unchanged guides up-to-date
- 1:30PM-2PM: Minor touch-ups, final publishing and announcement
Total Elapsed Time (including lunch/dinner): 31 hours
Total changes made: approx. 350 changes (not including text updates)
74 Guides applied
73 Guides remain unchanged
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Applied Changes: September 25 (11:30 PST)
(description changes not noted, assume listed hero builds have had their item/ability descriptions updated)
Abaddon
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Removed Utility Items tab
Alchemist (Lane)
New Skill Build: E Q W W W R W Q Q Q R E E E R (1. Unstable Concoction 2. Acid Spray 3. Greevil's Greed)
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items
Added Bottle to Core Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Armlet of Mordiggan to Core Items
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Sange and Yasha to Core Items
Removed Soul Ring
Removed Maelstrom
Alchemist (Middle)
New Skill Build: E Q Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W R (1. Acid Spray 2. Greevil's Greed 3. Unstable Concoction
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Quelling Blade to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch to Starting Items
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Added Radiance to "Early Game"
Added Boots of Travel to Core Items
Added Manta Style to Core Items
Added Octarine Core to Core Items
Removed Medallion of Courage
Removed Magic Wand
Removed Shadow Blade
Removed Solar Crest
Ancient Apparition (Lane)
Ancient Apparition (Middle)
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Early Game
Moved Rod of Atos to Extension Items
Removed Urn of Shadows
Removed Ghost Scepter
Removed Scythe of Vyse
New Guide
Arc Warden (Lane)
Skill Build: E Q E Q E R E W Q Q R W W W R (1. Spark Wraith 2. Flux 3. Magnetic Field)
Starting Items: 3x Iron Branch, Tangos, Clarity x3, Healing Salve
Early Game: Ring of Basilius, Hand of Midas, Boots of Speed, Ring of Aquila
Core Items: Necromonicon 3, Boots of Travel, Magic Wand
Utility Items: Healing Salve, Enchanted Mango
Situational Items: Dagon, Diffusal Blade
Extension Items: Boots of Travel 2, Manta Style, Scythe of Vyse, Divine Rapier
Luxury Items: Refresher's Orb
New Guide
Arc Warden (Middle)
Skill Build: E Q E Q E R E W Q Q R W W W R (1. Spark Wraith 2. Flux 3. Magnetic Field)
Starting Items: 3x Iron Branch, Tangos
Early Game: Boots of Speed, Hand of Midas, Bottle
Core Items: Necromonicon 3, Boots of Travel,
Utility Items: Healing Salve, Enchanted Mango
Situational Items: Drums of Endurance, Blink Dagger, Diffusal Blade
Extension Items: Black King Bar, Manta Style, Scythe of Vyse, Divine Rapier
Luxury Items: Refresher's Orb
Axe (Jungle)
Axe (Lane)
Moved Crimson guard to Extension Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Bane
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Batrider
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Removed Utility Items tab (and all support items such as Wards and Smoke of Deceit)
Beastmaster (Lane)
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Bloodseeker (Jungle)
Added Iron Talon to Starting Items
Removed Stout Shield
Removed Quelling Blade
Bloodseeker (Lane)
Bloodseeker (Middle)
Added Healing Slave to Starting Items
 Brewmaster (Lane)
Added Clarity to Starting Items
Bristleback
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Luxury Items
Moved Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items
Moved Crimson Guard to Extension Items
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Luxury Items
Centaur Warrunner
Moved Pipe of Insight to Core Items
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Chaos Knight
Moved Quelling Blade to Starting Items
 Chen
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Clarity to Starting Items
Clinkz
Added Dragon Lance to Extension Items
Removed Heart of Tarrasque
Crystal Maiden
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items
Dark Seer
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Dazzle
Moved Guardian Greaves to Core Items
Removed Medallion of Courage
Death Prophet
Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Octarine Core to Extension Items
Moved Shiva's Guard to Luxury Items
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Luxury Items
Removed Mekansm
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Disruptor
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items
Removed Blink Dagger
Doom (Lane)
New Skill Build: Q W W E W R W Q Q Q R E E E R (1. Scorched Earth 2. Devour 3. Infernal Blade)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Core Items
Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Quelling Blade
Doom (Jungle)
New Skill Build: Q W W Q Q R Q W W E R E E E (1. Devour 2. Scorched Earth 3. Infernal Blade)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Quelling Blade
Earth Spirit (Lane)
Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Extension Items
Moved Veil of Discord to Core Items
Removed Animal Courier
Removed Observer Ward x2
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Removed Heart of Tarrasque
Removed Utility Items tab
Removed Early Game tab
Earth Spirit (Middle)
Added Faerie Fire to Starting Items
Added Guardian Greaves to Core Items
Added Aether Lens to Situational Items
Moved Urn of Shadows to Core Items
Moved Veil of Discord to Extension Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Extension Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Removed Iron Branch x2
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Removed Heart of Tarrasque
Removed Utility Items tab
Removed Early Game tab
Elder Titan (Lane)
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Enigma
Added Sobi Mask to Starting Items
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Situational Items
Removed Clarity
Faceless Void
New Skill Build: Q E E Q E R E Q Q W R W W W R (1. Time Lock 2. Time Walk 3. Time Dilation)
Added Blink Dagger to Core Items
Added Sange and Yasha to Situational Items
Moved Refresher Orb to Extension Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Luxury Items
Moved Daedalus to Luxury Items
Removed Quelling Blade
Removed Maelstrom
Removed Battle Fury
Removed Moon Shard
Gyrocopter (Lane)
Gyrocopter (Middle)
Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items
Invoker
New Skill Build: E Q E Q E Q E Q W E R R E W E R W Q Q Q W W W W R (1. Exort 2. Quas 3. Wex)
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Faerie Fire x2 to Starting Items
Added Necromonicon - Level 3 to Situational Items
Moved Urn of Shadows to Early Game
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Core Items
Moved Drums of Endurance to Core Items (Middle)
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Removed Iron Branch x2
Removed Black King Bar
Removed Desolator
Removed Eye of Skadi
Removed Blink Dagger
 IO
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Jakiro
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Keeper of the Light
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Removed Shiva's Guard
 Leshrac (Lane)
Added Circlet of Nobility
Added Iron Branch
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Veil of Discord to Extension Items
Removed Utility Items tab
Removed Animal Courier
Removed Observer Ward
Removed Octarine Core
Removed Shiva's Guard
Lifestealer (Jungle)
Added Iron Talon to Starting Items
Removed Stout Shield
Removed Quelling Blade
 Lion
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Removed Clarity
Lone Druid (Jungle)
New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q W Q W R E R E E E R (1. Summon Spirit Bear 2. Rabid 3. Savage Roar)
Added Iron Talon to Starting Items (Bear)
Added Tangos to Starting Items (Bear)
Added Orb of Venom to Extension Items (Bear)
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Town Portal Scroll
Removed Moon Shard
Lone Druid (Lane)
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Summon Spirit Bear 2. Rabid 3. Savage Roar)
Added Quelling Blade to Starting Items (Bear)
Added Orb of Venom to Extension Items (Bear)
Removed Town Portal Scroll
Removed Moon Shard
Luna
Added Circlet of Nobility to Starting Items
Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items
Removed Iron Branch
Lycan (Jungle)
Added Iron Talons
Removed Stout Shield
Removed Quelling Blade
Night Stalker
Added Faerie Fire to Starting Items
Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Aghanim's Scepter
Removed Vladmir's Offering
Nyx Assassin (Lane)
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Ogre Magi
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items'
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items
Removed Guardian Greaves
Omniknight
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Oracle (Lane)
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Guardian Greaves to Core Items
Removed Healing Slave
Removed Mekansm
Removed Ethereal Blade
Oracle (Middle)
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Guardian Greaves to Core Items
Removed Healing Slave
Removed Mekansm
Removed Orchid of Malevolence
Removed Dagon
Removed Ethereal Blade
Outworld Devourer
New Skill Build: Q E W E E R E Q Q Q R W W W R (1. Essence Aura 2. Arcane Orb 3. Astral Imprisonment)
Added Null Talisman to Starting Items
Added Bottle to Core Items
Removed Iron Branch x2
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Magic Wand
Removed Mekansm
Removed Aghanin's Scepter
Pugna
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items
Removed Blink Dagger
Riki
New Skill Build: E W E W Q R E E W W R Q Q Q R (1. Cloak and Dagger 2. Blink Strike 3. Smoke Screen)
Rubick
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Sand King
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Added Ethereal Blade to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Shadow Demon
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse
 Shadow Shaman (Lane)
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Skywrath Mage (Lane)
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Rod of Atos to Situational Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Skywrath Mage (Middle)
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Rod of Atos to Situational Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Sven
Added Quelling Blade to Core Items
Added Blink Dagger to Core Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Removed Aghanim's Scepter
Removed Heart of Tarrasque
Templar Assassin
Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items
Tidehunter
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items
Moved Lotus Orb to Situational Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Removed Heaven's Halberd
Ursa (Jungle)
Added Iron Talons to Starting Items
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Quelling Blade
Removed Stout Shield
Vengeful Spirit
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
 Venomancer
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
 Visage
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Warlock (Lane)
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Witch Doctor
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Winter Wyvern
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Removed Ghost Scepter
Removed Lotus Orb
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Inquiries:
Faerie Fire applicability?
+ Show Spoiler [Consider Heroes] + (Lane/Jungle) (Middle) (Lane/Middle) (Jungle) (Lane/Middle) (Lane/Middle)  (Lane/Middle) (Lane) (Lane)    (Lane/Middle) (Lane) (Lane/Middle) (Lane/Middle)
Side-Shop Bottle?
+ Show Spoiler [Consider Heroes] + (Lane) (Lane) (Lane) (Lane, remove Soul Ring/Tranqs?) (Lane) (Lane) (Lane) (Lane) (Lane) (Lane)  (Lane) (Lane) (Lane) (Lane) (Lane) (Lane)  (Lane) (Lane) (Lane)  (Lane) (Lane)
3x Iron Branch if leftover gold?
Kunkka (Lane)
Kunkka (Middle)
Change Skill Build?
Aghanim's?
Invoker
Check Skill/Item Build
Outworld Devourer
Double-check skill build
Rod of Atos Extension?
Remove Bottle?
Aether Lens?
Arc Warden (Lane)
Arc Warden (Middle)
Consider maxing Flux over W (for Lane? Middle? Or Both?)
Starting Items rework
Boots before Hand of Midas
Death Prophet
Check Item Build (Drums slot, Rod of Atos slot, Heart slot, Aether Lens slot)
Doom (Lane)
Doom (Jungle)
Double-check Skill Build (max Q second or E second)
Beastmaster (Lane)
Beastmaster (Middle)
Double-check differences in item builds (Necro Core, but situational for other? Tranquil/Soul Ring -> Side-Shop bottle?)
Centaur Warrunner
Blade Mail to Extension?
Black King Bar back to Core? Then Pipe of Insight to Situational Items?
Crimson Guard to Situational Items?
Luna
Templar Assassin
Keep Dragon Lance?
Lone Druid (Jungle)
Lycan (Jungle)
Ursa (Jungle)
Lifestealer (Jungle)
Bloodseeker
Double-check jungling still possible with just Iron Talon + Tangoes
Batrider
Aether Lens higher priority? (currently Extension Items)
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I don't see Aether Lens on Batrider being a higher priority than Blink or Force except at very low execution levels where player's can't pull the blink->lasso combo without the extra range on lasso. I could see it being a 5th core item, relegating bottle to early game only.
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SoCal8910 Posts
yeesh, nice job torte.
IMO blink should be core on arc warden, not sure if it should be before or after travels..probably before.
oh and yeah, aether is def not higher priority than blink. if you can blink/force you probably dont need aether lens at all tbh
to answer your question about leftover gold, 3 iron branch is fine on heroes that will be picking up a wand. 1 can be dropped and eaten for the extra regen.
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invoker needs we as first 2 levels for sure alacrity damage makes this hero so much stronger in lane
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About NP jungle build: There is no reason to get tangos and branches. Either get null talisman or a bascilius. I have checked, and going null is slightly faster, and gives you more damage when you gank, but bascilius makes it easier because of the armor.
As for a possible offlane build, I usually go null and salve, but its possible to drop the null and get a tango and a clarity or something instead. As long as you keep your distance and harass with treants, you should be fine with the null salve build.
btw add refresher besides the aghs and octarine and say that they should be gotten if the opposing team has unreliable waveclear
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On December 19 2015 01:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
iron talon is super good but it's NOT a bfury replacement. Any hero who bought bfury buys it to clear waves which talon DOES NOT DO. talon is a nice upgrade for qb for NON BFURY heroes. Like spectre. Talon's INSANE on spectre allowing her to farm muuuuuch faster early with like no items. Also good on every jungler who hits creeps (most of whom felt invalid before but now... lycan, lone druid, furion, even LC and Lifestealer are decent speed).
This is from a few pages back, but I'm curious about this.
I tried out Iron Talon on Spectre along with Phase + PMS, but I still wasn't able to jungle effectively around 6-10. I killed creeps fast, but without regen I was just getting chewed up by the camps making it hard for me to do more than 1 or 2 camps before I'd be low enough to either have to back or lane. Maybe I should have had Aquila and/or treads or something? Do you have a general idea of how Iron Talon should work. I found it faster than no Iron Talon of course, but not to the point where I felt like it was worthwhile going to the jungle. If I got Iron Talon after Radiance, well I'm not really sure I quite see the point but maybe it'd still pay off.
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jakiro build is 2-0-4-1 into 2-3-4-2
earth spirit octa core is probably okay in luxury but 99% of games ur not getting that much farm for a octa
ogre stun max is better imo since burst with a multicast is rly nice
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bluemoon's so good that he got two shoutouts on reddit
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
why would u not get valuepoint ice path before maxing liquid fire and dualbreath
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On December 21 2015 13:11 ahswtini wrote:
why would u not get valuepoint ice path before maxing liquid fire and dualbreath
Was thinking about the same thing. Whether u max ice path or dualbreath should be game dependent too but that seems too complicated for the guide i guess.
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Just got into work; will look into suggestions now.
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AA (Lane) is still missing a starting obs ward
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Im going to publish the above post and start a new post on changes.
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If Sven is getting QB, should he just be getting Iron Talon instead?
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EPT
