• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:44
CEST 18:44
KST 01:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down10ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League53Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.166
StarCraft 2
General
REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? Sagi.gg Launcher Released [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL23] RO24 Group Stage KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4 [ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7008 users

In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 211

Forum Index > The Tavern
Post a Reply
Prev 1 209 210 211 212 213 371 Next
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-30 11:01:30
August 29 2015 22:06 GMT
#4201
ed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-29 22:14:37
August 29 2015 22:14 GMT
#4202
I'm a bit confused by puck's skill build, I thought the standards were either to max orb or 2 in orb -> max silence. I could see the one you have being used a lot in current pubs to try and get kills on ember, storm or qop at level 6, but it would normally be ideal to max silence if you're putting two points into it no?.

The idea behind the max silence build isn't exactly just for farming, but part of the principle of maxing waning rift first is to allow you to farm without sacrificing your escape ability, with two points going into orb for basically the same reason zeus gets two in arc (more efficient lasthitting/harass early on in laning stage).
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 29 2015 22:26 GMT
#4203
My understanding was that it was situational, but maxing Waning Rift first is something I can change to.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-30 00:19:48
August 30 2015 00:18 GMT
#4204
Personally I just max orb most of the time because it's more effective at antipushing and putting damage on the other hero in lane, but 2-1-2 is strong as well. The versatility you get from separating your damage and your initiation/escape is helpful.

Outside of really specific laning situations I don't think I'd ever aim to put two points in rift and then go back to orb, though. I would vote 4-1-1-1 or 2-1-3-1 at 7.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
August 30 2015 00:52 GMT
#4205
On August 30 2015 09:18 Belisarius wrote:
Personally I just max orb most of the time because it's more effective at antipushing and putting damage on the other hero in lane, but 2-1-2 is strong as well. The versatility you get from separating your damage and your initiation/escape is helpful.

Outside of really specific laning situations I don't think I'd ever aim to put two points in rift and then go back to orb, though. I would vote 4-1-1-1 or 2-1-3-1 at 7.

Are you suggesting 3 points in phase shift or 3 points in waning rift at level 7?
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-30 01:52:22
August 30 2015 01:38 GMT
#4206
Yeah I meant rift in both cases, so 2-1-1-0 into 2-2-1-1 into 2-3-1-1 and up. Don't max phase shift lol.

I totally play this hero.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 30 2015 01:54 GMT
#4207
4-1-1-1 is probably easier to use for someone who's new to the hero.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 30 2015 11:00 GMT
#4208
The player would need to know how to play Puck (Q->W->R or some combination) to do this regardless. At least with early W Waning Rift, they can get a longer silence.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 30 2015 11:01 GMT
#4209
Silencer (Lane)
Moved Rod of Atos to Core Items
Moved Mekansm to Situational Items
for some reason, this didn't apply to the guide

Silencer (Middle)
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items
Moved Rod of Atos to Extension Items

Nyx Assassin (Middle)
Moved Force Staff to Core Items
Moved Necromonicon to Extension Items
Moved Lotus Orb to Situational Items
Removed Ghost Scepter

Nyx Assassin (Lane)
New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Impale 2. Spiked Carapace 3. Mana Burn)
Added Stout Shield to Starting Items
Moved Force Staff to Core Items
Moved Urn of Shadows to Situational Items
Moved Lotus Orb to Situational Items
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Extension Items
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items
Removed Iron Branch x2

Lifestealer (Lane)
Added Desolator to Extension Items
Moved Sange and Yasha to Core Items
Removed Magic Wand
Removed Daedalus
Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Lifestealer (Jungle)
Added Desolator to Extension Items
Moved Sange and Yasha to Core Items
Removed Daedalus
Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Vengeful Spirit
Moved Glimmer Cape to Extension Items
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Extension Items
Moved Urn of Shadows to Situational Items
Removed Desolator
Removed Enchanted Mango

Zeus
New Skill Build: Q E Q W W R W W Q Q R E E E (1. Lightning Bolt 2. Arc Lightning 3. Static Field)
Added Soul Ring to Early Game
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Moved Bloodstone to Core Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items

Clinkz
New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W E E E R Q Q Q (1. Strafe 2. Searing Arrows 3. Skeleton Walk)
Added Ring of Basilius to Early Game
Added Soul Ring to Early Game
Added Medallion of Courage to Core Items
Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Desolator to Core Items
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Situational Items
Moved Solar Crest to Extension Items

Puck
New Skill Build: Q E Q W W R W W Q Q R E E E R (1. Illusory Orb 2. Waning Rift 3. Phase Shift)
Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items
Added Circle of Nobility to Starting Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Lotus Orb to Situational Items
moved blink dagger to before power treads
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Extension Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 30 2015 11:09 GMT
#4210
[image loading]

1 million unique for Pugna

If interested in a timeline of 1 million hits and milestones, you can check it here: http://steamcommunity.com/id/0825771
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-30 14:07:13
August 30 2015 13:56 GMT
#4211
After ~15 days (August 15 to August 30), we have risen from 92,481,202 to 95,285,977 combined subscriptions

A difference of 2,804,775
Average Growth of subscribers is 657,144.67
Growth Percentage is 3.03%


5 least popular guides (bottom being the least popular):
  1. Brewmaster (Middle) (17,015)
  2. Shadow Shaman (Middle) (1,341)
  3. Warlock (Middle) (1,249)
  4. Windranger (Middle) (1,235)
  5. Alchemist (Middle) (922)


5 most popular guides (top being the most popular):
  1. Lifestealer (Jungle)
  2. Sven
  3. Juggernaut (previously rank 4)
  4. Phantom Lancer (previously rank 5)
  5. Necrophos (previously rank 3)



Notable Growths in Subscriptions:
  • Phantom Lancer (1,174,061 -> 1,215,396)
  • Storm Spirit (1,010,617 -> 1,050,655)
  • Windranger (Lane) (996,202 -> 1,019,332)
  • Tiny (Lane) (994,905 -> 1,014,381)
  • Pugna (980,297 -> 1,000,304)
  • Leshrac (Middle) (358,784 -> 397,849)
  • Lina (Middle) (270,001 -> 319,939)


Newly Released Guides:




    Associated Reddit Topic - n/a
    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
    Torte de Lini
    Profile Blog Joined September 2010
    Germany38463 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-09-14 08:43:55
    August 30 2015 14:03 GMT
    #4212
    • Growth of Subscribers stays steady above 2.5 million (since May 1)

    • 13.02% of last month's unique players [11,942,122] are subscribed to the Lifestealer (Jungle) Guide

    • Windranger (Lane) recently hit the 1 million mark (1,019,332)
    • Tiny (Lane) recently hit the 1 million mark (1,014,381)
    • Pugna recently hit the 1 million mark (1,000,304)

    • Four guides are currently swimming towards the 1 million mark: Phantom Assassin (986,696), Witch Doctor (966,730), Timbersaw (957,707), Morphling (951,302)

    • Top 21 guides are approx. 1Mill subscribers or higher each
    • Top 36 guides are approx. 900k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 53 guides are approx. 800k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 70 guides are approx. 700k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 91 guides are approx. 600k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 106 guides are approx. 500k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 124 guides are approx. 400k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 132 guides are approx. 300k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 141 guides are approx. 200k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 142 guides are approx. 100k subscribers or higher each
    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
    Torte de Lini
    Profile Blog Joined September 2010
    Germany38463 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-08-30 19:03:09
    August 30 2015 18:35 GMT
    #4213
    I updated the Excel Sheet of all the data to better reflect the patch notes:

    [image loading]
    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
    Torte de Lini
    Profile Blog Joined September 2010
    Germany38463 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-09-02 14:56:29
    August 31 2015 21:02 GMT
    #4214
    To Update:

    Fucked up Skill Build
    Brown Boots only/Eul's + Blink: Core/Skill Build E-Q-max W
    Double-check if up-to-date in skill build, more traditional laning CM/not jungle stack
    potentially out-of-date
    Rework Skill Build to not compensate for newbies (aka standard play)
    potentially out-of-date

    Played Zeus and Clinkz today, did very well. Surprising how fast Bloodstone comes.
    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
    Torte de Lini
    Profile Blog Joined September 2010
    Germany38463 Posts
    August 31 2015 22:19 GMT
    #4215
    Riki
    Added Diffusal Blade - Level 2 to Extension Items
    Removed Skull Basher
    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
    TheYango
    Profile Joined September 2008
    United States47024 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-09-01 02:49:20
    September 01 2015 02:41 GMT
    #4216
    On September 01 2015 06:02 Torte de Lini wrote:
    Rework Skill Build to not compensate for newbies (aka standard play)

    "Standard play" is to adjust your skill order based on the game, so any fixed skill order is by definition compensating for newbies.

    That's the inherent idiosyncrasy of trying to give fixed standard skill orders for heroes who at a high level have variable skill order based on a player's read on the game. That's why "newbie-friendly" skill orders are preferable for these kinds of heroes, because the big leap in understanding that "graduates" the player to a higher level of play isn't learning to play the hero with a different skill order, it's learning to make adjustments to their skill order based on the game. By the time a player needs to be playing something other than the "newbie-friendly" fixed skill order, they should already have that understanding, and a skill order recommendation is superfluous.
    Moderator
    Thetwinmasters
    Profile Joined January 2015
    3578 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-09-01 04:03:05
    September 01 2015 03:44 GMT
    #4217
    On September 01 2015 06:02 Torte de Lini wrote:
    To Update:

    Fucked up Skill Build
    Brown Boots only/Eul's + Blink: Core/Skill Build E-Q-max W
    Double-check if up-to-date in skill build, more traditional laning CM/not jungle stack
    potentially out-of-date
    Rework Skill Build to not compensate for newbies (aka standard play)

    Played Zeus and Clinkz today, did very well. Surprising how fast Bloodstone comes.

    If you're going to do 4-1-4 storm you don't take pull at 4 also he needs soul ring in early game really badly.
    EDIT: Ok this medusa build makes 0 sense at all no split shot till 10, lotus orb shouldn't be in situational at all and manta satanic aren't extension items at all since 99% percent of games their awful and you 100% need rapier in their somewhere I could probably think of more to change but that is the immediate glaring issues I see.
    Torte de Lini
    Profile Blog Joined September 2010
    Germany38463 Posts
    September 01 2015 13:32 GMT
    #4218
    I'll add Medusa. I agree that it needs a makeover but I was too hesitant before.
    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
    Belisarius
    Profile Joined November 2010
    Australia6233 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-09-02 02:06:54
    September 02 2015 02:01 GMT
    #4219
    Dusa's always controversial because she just flat-out does not work in this style of guide. Everything about her is situational and I'm pretty sure you've been told to change that guide and then change it back like 20 times.

    I agree she needs rapier in extension, and that lotus shouldn't be on there at all. Those are no-brainers.

    I disagree with Satanic and manta being awful, though. Manta is useful for extended siege situations, and there are games where satanic is essential. The problem is that they're both valid as like 5th item only, and it's hard to ensure that people get damage items first.

    I also don't like mango on really any of these guides, but that's a different discussion.
    BluemoonSC
    Profile Blog Joined November 2010
    SoCal8933 Posts
    September 03 2015 18:26 GMT
    #4220
    On September 02 2015 11:01 Belisarius wrote:
    Dusa's always controversial because she just flat-out does not work in this style of guide. Everything about her is situational and I'm pretty sure you've been told to change that guide and then change it back like 20 times.

    I agree she needs rapier in extension, and that lotus shouldn't be on there at all. Those are no-brainers.

    I disagree with Satanic and manta being awful, though. Manta is useful for extended siege situations, and there are games where satanic is essential. The problem is that they're both valid as like 5th item only, and it's hard to ensure that people get damage items first.

    I also don't like mango on really any of these guides, but that's a different discussion.


    that's why 5th/6th items usually go into the extension spot in the guide.

    both of those choices are situational, are you concerned with her core build?
    LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
    Prev 1 209 210 211 212 213 371 Next
    Please log in or register to reply.
    Live Events Refresh
    Next event in 6h 16m
    [ Submit Event ]
    Live Streams
    Refresh
    StarCraft 2
    LamboSC2 259
    UpATreeSC 76
    Codebar 41
    Classic 28
    StarCraft: Brood War
    Britney 35403
    Calm 3789
    Bisu 1713
    EffOrt 1162
    Shuttle 575
    firebathero 557
    Light 518
    Rush 374
    Stork 330
    Soma 232
    [ Show more ]
    Snow 222
    ZerO 181
    Dewaltoss 128
    Soulkey 128
    hero 117
    ProTech104
    ggaemo 57
    Sharp 56
    Mong 51
    910 48
    Hyun 43
    PianO 39
    Movie 36
    Barracks 34
    Killer 30
    Terrorterran 26
    sorry 25
    Hm[arnc] 24
    Trap 24
    Shinee 20
    HiyA 18
    Sacsri 17
    Free 12
    Shine 9
    Dota 2
    Gorgc13464
    qojqva2412
    Fuzer 134
    League of Legends
    Reynor74
    Counter-Strike
    fl0m1134
    byalli783
    edward58
    Heroes of the Storm
    Trikslyr81
    Other Games
    singsing1708
    B2W.Neo1041
    Beastyqt873
    ceh9616
    mouzStarbuck227
    crisheroes200
    Liquid`VortiX196
    XaKoH 191
    FrodaN189
    C9.Mang0124
    Liquid`LucifroN60
    Chillindude17
    ZerO(Twitch)14
    MindelVK1
    Organizations
    StarCraft 2
    angryscii 12
    [ Show 18 non-featured ]
    StarCraft 2
    • StrangeGG 74
    • LUISG 16
    • AfreecaTV YouTube
    • intothetv
    • Kozan
    • IndyKCrew
    • Migwel
    StarCraft: Brood War
    • FirePhoenix12
    • Pr0nogo 3
    • BSLYoutube
    • STPLYoutube
    • ZZZeroYoutube
    Dota 2
    • C_a_k_e 3183
    League of Legends
    • Nemesis1773
    • Jankos1571
    • TFBlade654
    Other Games
    • Shiphtur755
    • WagamamaTV241
    Upcoming Events
    OSC
    6h 16m
    WardiTV Summer Champion…
    18h 16m
    Harstem vs Zoun
    Harstem vs GgMaChine
    GgMaChine vs Lambo
    Harstem vs Lambo
    GgMaChine vs Zoun
    Lambo vs Zoun
    OSC
    21h 16m
    FEL
    1d 16h
    Patches Events
    1d 20h
    AI Arena Tournament
    2 days
    FEL
    2 days
    Sparkling Tuna Cup
    2 days
    Replay Cast
    3 days
    WardiTV Weekly
    3 days
    [ Show More ]
    IntoTheTV X SOOP
    4 days
    ByuN vs Lambo
    MaxPax vs Bunny
    PiGosaur Cup
    5 days
    The PondCast
    5 days
    Kung Fu Cup
    5 days
    IntoTheTV X SOOP
    6 days
    SHIN vs GuMiho
    Clem vs Classic
    Liquipedia Results

    Completed

    Proleague 2026-10-20
    Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
    HCC Season 3

    Ongoing

    Acropolis #5
    IPSL Winter 2026-27
    KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
    Acropolis #5 - GSC
    1win Private Club #2
    Thunderpick World Champ. '26
    ESL Pro League Season 24
    Stake Ranked Episode 4
    1win Private Club #1
    Logitech G Play Connect 2026
    SL StarSeries Fall 2026
    FISSURE Playground #3
    BLAST Open Fall 2026
    Esports World Cup 2026

    Upcoming

    BSL Season 23
    SC4ALL II: Brood War
    BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
    HSC XXX
    Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
    SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
    Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
    RSL Offline Finals
    eXTREMESLAND 2026
    PGL Major Singapore 2026
    Stake Ranked Episode 6
    BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
    IEM Beijing 2026
    Stake Ranked Episode 5
    PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
    TLPD

    1. ByuN
    2. TY
    3. Dark
    4. Solar
    5. Stats
    6. Nerchio
    7. sOs
    8. soO
    9. INnoVation
    10. Elazer
    1. Rain
    2. Flash
    3. EffOrt
    4. Last
    5. Bisu
    6. Soulkey
    7. Mini
    8. Sharp
    Sidebar Settings...

    Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

    Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
    The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.