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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 104

Forum Index > The Tavern
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Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-27 18:38:08
September 27 2014 18:36 GMT
#2061
On September 28 2014 03:03 TheYango wrote:
Start missile from fog->invis in->autoattack->Rocket Barrage/ult if necessary


invis in -> drop missile obviously doesn't work.

Dropping the missile reveals you, so they know there's an invisible Gyrocopter around if they're paying attention. Which, granted, pubbies might not be.

Given that build, I think the optimal kill sequence is actually invis in -> autoattack -> start rocket barrage -> drop missile and hope they run away on low enough HP that a 500 damage nuke kills them. With that sequence, it gets about the same amount of damage as a max Rocket Barrage build, but without the ability to instead use Shadow Blade to chase between Rocket Barrages.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
September 27 2014 20:04 GMT
#2062
On September 28 2014 03:36 Buckyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2014 03:03 TheYango wrote:
Start missile from fog->invis in->autoattack->Rocket Barrage/ult if necessary


invis in -> drop missile obviously doesn't work.

Dropping the missile reveals you, so they know there's an invisible Gyrocopter around if they're paying attention. Which, granted, pubbies might not be.

Given that build, I think the optimal kill sequence is actually invis in -> autoattack -> start rocket barrage -> drop missile and hope they run away on low enough HP that a 500 damage nuke kills them. With that sequence, it gets about the same amount of damage as a max Rocket Barrage build, but without the ability to instead use Shadow Blade to chase between Rocket Barrages.


You don't explain the next part: they know there's an invisible Gyrocopter, so what do they do?

In addition, given that they know, you can choose to engage or not depending if the missile works.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 27 2014 20:21 GMT
#2063
On September 28 2014 03:36 Buckyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2014 03:03 TheYango wrote:
Start missile from fog->invis in->autoattack->Rocket Barrage/ult if necessary


invis in -> drop missile obviously doesn't work.

Dropping the missile reveals you, so they know there's an invisible Gyrocopter around if they're paying attention. Which, granted, pubbies might not be.

Given that build, I think the optimal kill sequence is actually invis in -> autoattack -> start rocket barrage -> drop missile and hope they run away on low enough HP that a 500 damage nuke kills them. With that sequence, it gets about the same amount of damage as a max Rocket Barrage build, but without the ability to instead use Shadow Blade to chase between Rocket Barrages.

The Missile needs to move 1500 range to get 500 damage. That's not possible if you start it on their face.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-28 06:32:28
September 28 2014 05:39 GMT
#2064
Underexposed Guides (Feedback and Ratings appreciated)
These guides are not necessarily for new heroes, but on alternative ways to play; unfortunately that makes very few people look them up and rate them. Your ratings and support are appreciated and are what keeps this project going.


  1. Phantom Lancer (Middle)

  2. Earth Spirit (Lane)

  3. Sniper (Middle)

  4. Gyrocopter (Middle)

  5. Warlock (Middle)

  6. Bloodseeker (Lane)

  7. Bloodseeker (Jungle)

  8. Leshrac (Middle)

  9. Kunkka (Middle)

  10. Weaver (Lane)

  11. Dragon Knight (Middle)

  12. Skywrath Mage (Lane)

  13. Tusk (Middle)

  14. Naga Siren (Middle)

  15. Elder Titan (Lane)

  16. Ursa (Lane)

  17. Nyx Assassin (Lane)

  18. Axe (Jungle)

  19. Ember Spirit (Middle)

  20. Beastmaster (Middle)

  21. Lifestealer (Lane)

  22. Shadow Shaman (Middle)

  23. Earth Spirit (Middle)


So far, these are the guides that lack ratings and feedback. The list growing to be rather large, a good 18% of the project. These alternative guides help push down many outdated guides (2013) and also provide insight into more traditional ways of playing a hero (Lifestealer - Jungle has 1 million subscribers for an otherwise inefficient way to play the hero).
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
September 28 2014 06:04 GMT
#2065
Proofreading issue:

In this version of the guide, Nyx Assassin stays in the side-lane and either pulls jungle creeps to the lane and harasses foes with his Impale ability.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
September 28 2014 06:06 GMT
#2066
On September 28 2014 15:04 Buckyman wrote:
Proofreading issue:

Show nested quote +
In this version of the guide, Nyx Assassin stays in the side-lane and either pulls jungle creeps to the lane and harasses foes with his Impale ability.


fixed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
tehh4ck3r
Profile Joined August 2013
Magrathea7086 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-28 06:21:08
September 28 2014 06:20 GMT
#2067
Lifestealer build you linked is for Lane, not middle.
Weaver build you linked is for Lane, not middle.
Warlock Mid build should max Upheaval? (IDK if this was discussed before)
BS builds descriptions should reflect that blademail can be used in conjunction with bloodrage to deal even more damage
Beastmaster build should have blink as core IMO, and ditch the mek (after mana cost nerf he can't sustain it anymore)
AdministratorIn those days, spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
September 28 2014 06:26 GMT
#2068
On September 28 2014 15:20 tehh4ck3r wrote:
Lifestealer build you linked is for Lane, not middle.
Weaver build you linked is for Lane, not middle.
Warlock Mid build should max Upheaval? (IDK if this was discussed before)
BS builds descriptions should reflect that blademail can be used in conjunction with bloodrage to deal even more damage
Beastmaster build should have blink as core IMO, and ditch the mek (after mana cost nerf he can't sustain it anymore)


Fixed typos.
Bloodseeker Blade Mail description should be updated in the next 15 seconds.

We may need to discuss about Warlock maxing Upheaval.

Beastmaster no longer Meka sounds right, but let's get a second opinion.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-28 21:36:17
September 28 2014 17:13 GMT
#2069
I've had more success as mid Warlock when I max Shadow Word first instead of Fatal Bonds, particularly against long-ranged heroes who don't ever need to come within bonds range of their melee creeps.

On September 28 2014 05:04 Torte de Lini wrote:
You don't explain the next part: they know there's an invisible Gyrocopter, so what do they do?


Best case scenario against a competent opponent is that they TP out. Worst case is they go somewhere you can't fight them, which may even mean 'on top of the missile when it activates'.

(E) In my opinion, Spectre (Lane) should take Dispersion at level 2 instead of Desolate. I'm not usually chasing people down until I have more ranks in dagger, but am often being harassed.
Felonious Monk
Profile Joined September 2014
United States1 Post
September 28 2014 21:36 GMT
#2070
Hi Torte,

I don't have any constructive criticism to offer at this point, but I just want to say thanks for putting in all the effort on making these guides! They make learning all the heroes a lot less intimidating.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
September 29 2014 03:02 GMT
#2071
On September 29 2014 06:36 Felonious Monk wrote:
Hi Torte,

I don't have any constructive criticism to offer at this point, but I just want to say thanks for putting in all the effort on making these guides! They make learning all the heroes a lot less intimidating.


Thanks! Your kind words and feedback are actually what keep this going!
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-30 06:49:51
September 29 2014 03:19 GMT
#2072
edit
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-29 03:28:04
September 29 2014 03:25 GMT
#2073
On September 29 2014 02:13 Buckyman wrote:
I've had more success as mid Warlock when I max Shadow Word first instead of Fatal Bonds, particularly against long-ranged heroes who don't ever need to come within bonds range of their melee creeps.

Show nested quote +
On September 28 2014 05:04 Torte de Lini wrote:
You don't explain the next part: they know there's an invisible Gyrocopter, so what do they do?


Best case scenario against a competent opponent is that they TP out. Worst case is they go somewhere you can't fight them, which may even mean 'on top of the missile when it activates'.

(E) In my opinion, Spectre (Lane) should take Dispersion at level 2 instead of Desolate. I'm not usually chasing people down until I have more ranks in dagger, but am often being harassed.


For Warlock, I would assume you want Q maxed first for when you hit 6-7 you can immediately Fatal Bonds max level into ultimate.

I'll change Spectre.

What do you think of Carry Leshrac (Middle)?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
OmegaPython
Profile Joined September 2014
Australia8 Posts
September 29 2014 07:05 GMT
#2074
Skadi seems fairly good on the new PL as an alternative to Heart. It is better for fighting, and if you drop Diffusal after buying Skadi and then pick it up again, your illusions will get the mana burn orb, and the hero gets the skadi slow.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-30 20:09:07
September 30 2014 06:52 GMT
#2075
Phantom Lancer (Middle)
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items
Removed Assault Cuirass
Added Abyssal Blade

Phantom Lancer (Lane)
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items
Removed Assault Cuirass
Added Abyssal Blade

Sniper (Middle)
New Skill Build: E Q Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Shrapnel 2. Take Aim 3. Headshot)

Elder Titan (Middle)
Removed Phase Boots
Added Power Treads to Core Items

Elder Titan (Lane)
Removed Rod of Atos
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Removed Tranquil Boots (Bottle is in Core Items)
Added Power Treads

Spectre
New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Spectral Dagger 2. Desolate 3. Dispersion)

Beastermaster (Lane)
Removed Mekansm
Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items Before Arcane Boots
Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items
Removed Drums of Endurance

Beastermaster (Middle)
Removed Mekansm
Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items Before Arcane Boots
Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items

Pugna
Removed Healing Salve

Abaddon
Removed Urn of Shadows
Added Bottle to Core Items

Axe (Lane)
Removed Mekansm
Moved Crimson Guard to Core Items
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 02 2014 13:07 GMT
#2076
I'm still looking for feedback regarding the new heroes such as Sniper and Leshrac middle.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-02 13:40:19
October 02 2014 13:37 GMT
#2077
Explain why you removed Healing Salve from Pugna and not Clarity.

Also, why did you remove Mek from BM?
Blink is still situational on that hero.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 02 2014 14:10 GMT
#2078
On October 02 2014 22:37 TheYango wrote:
Explain why you removed Healing Salve from Pugna and not Clarity.

Also, why did you remove Mek from BM?
Blink is still situational on that hero.


I felt that Tangos were typically enough and Clarity kept because of early-game spell cost.

Mana cost on BM didn't feel like it was worthwhile given Whirling Axes is taxing already.

I felt since Mek was removed and ancients are easier on both sides, Blink would be more suited.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-02 14:19:59
October 02 2014 14:19 GMT
#2079
BM's worse at ancients tho now since his dmg vs them got reduced.

Still an important farming method but a 40 dmg nerf (20x2 hits) adds up when u have to throw like 8 axes to clear a stack.

Also what does ancients have to do with blink? I mean the item is still fine when u need it and bad when u dont. Mek is admittedly somewhat worse but whatever still good if ur looking to push with his aura and/or fight early.

Also ancients are definitely harder now as dire offlane, you ahve to run back like 3x further to stack with axes from lane.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-02 14:37:29
October 02 2014 14:37 GMT
#2080
When is blink bad when you don't need it? What do you mean?


On October 02 2014 23:19 Sn0_Man wrote:
BM's worse at ancients tho now since his dmg vs them got reduced.

Still an important farming method but a 40 dmg nerf (20x2 hits) adds up when u have to throw like 8 axes to clear a stack.

Also what does ancients have to do with blink? I mean the item is still fine when u need it and bad when u dont. Mek is admittedly somewhat worse but whatever still good if ur looking to push with his aura and/or fight early.

Also ancients are definitely harder now as dire offlane, you ahve to run back like 3x further to stack with axes from lane.

https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
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