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On September 26 2014 07:35 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 07:05 TheYango wrote:On September 26 2014 07:04 Sn0_Man wrote:
Thats how it used to work since u had to max bash to get damage.
Now the first level of bash is enough damage and the next levels of it read "miniscule damage increase" so u don't get them early. No, 4-1-1-1 was the right way to play SB before as well. Anyone who did otherwise had no clue how to play the hero, lol. 1-1-4-1 was only right if you were getting farmed as a safe lane core or playing mid for whatever reason, which are both shitty ways to play the hero anyway because his ass BAT after the nerf makes it impossible for him to go anywhere lategame. I mean, 1-1-4-1 at least u did damage. 4-1-1-1 u didn't do anything at all before. Like, u got a 2s stun basically, thats it. There's no way it was any good. This is from an offlane perspective too since it's the only lane the hero had any application in imo.
Why is it good now?
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On September 26 2014 07:53 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 07:35 Sn0_Man wrote:On September 26 2014 07:05 TheYango wrote:On September 26 2014 07:04 Sn0_Man wrote:
Thats how it used to work since u had to max bash to get damage.
Now the first level of bash is enough damage and the next levels of it read "miniscule damage increase" so u don't get them early. No, 4-1-1-1 was the right way to play SB before as well. Anyone who did otherwise had no clue how to play the hero, lol. 1-1-4-1 was only right if you were getting farmed as a safe lane core or playing mid for whatever reason, which are both shitty ways to play the hero anyway because his ass BAT after the nerf makes it impossible for him to go anywhere lategame. I mean, 1-1-4-1 at least u did damage. 4-1-1-1 u didn't do anything at all before. Like, u got a 2s stun basically, thats it. There's no way it was any good. This is from an offlane perspective too since it's the only lane the hero had any application in imo. Why is it good now?
On September 26 2014 07:40 govie wrote:
FYI datdota says : VP jotm played lesrac +/-5 times as a semicore last month approx: manaboots, wand, urn, euls, bkb are items i see alot in those games on the jotm lesrac. I do still think with the bloodstonechange is interesting and changing his guide has a lower priority then other heros.
Ever tried to farm an aghs as treant or chen, it isnt that easy and still very expensive. Your old treant and chen guides seem still fine
Treant needs Aghs
Chen I'll probably keep as is.
Thanks! I'll update leshrac!~
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Initial Thoughts and Changes
Hero Guides Unchanged:
+ Show Spoiler +Ancient Apparition (Lane/Middle)
Anti-Mage
Batrider
Bounty Hunter (Description Change)
Broodmother (Description Change)
Chaos Knight
Dark Seer
Dazzle
Death Prophet
Disruptor
Drow Ranger (Butterfly Description Change)
Earthshaker
Enchantress
Ember Spirit
Enigma
Faceless Void (Chronosphere Description change)
Gyrocopter (Mid build/Max Missile)
Juggernaut
IO
Kunkka
Legion Commander
Lich
Lifestealer
Lion
Lycan (garbage)
Magnus
Naga Siren
Nightstalker
Pugna (Ultimate description change)
Queen of Pain
Shadow Demon
Skywrath Mage (descriptions)
Slark (ultimate description)
Sniper (description)
Spectre
Spirit Breaker (ability description changes)
Techies
Troll Warlord
Tusk (Description changes)
Ursa
Vengeful Spirit
Weaver
Windranger
Wraith King
Keeper (description)
Hero Guides Ability Change:
+ Show Spoiler +Brewmaster (Drunken Brawler pre-6)
Jakiro (Dual Breath before Ice Path?)
Riki (entire ability rebuild + descriptions)
Shadow Shaman (Hex or Shackles pre-6)
Hero Guides Item Build Change:
+ Show Spoiler +Abaddon (Meka/Soul Ring/Vanguard/Crimson Guard??)
Axe (Meka/Soul Ring/Vanguard/Crimson Guard)
Bane (Aghanim's Scepter)
Clinkz (orb effect attacks [deso/HOTD])
Clockwerk (Mekansm, Soul Ring, Vanguard, Crimson Guard)
Doom (Aghanim's Scepter/Description change not affecting passives)
Elder Titan (Aghanim's Scepter, Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard/Soul Ring/Urn of Shadows)
Bristleback (Vanguard/Crimson Guard)
Centaur Warrunner (Vanguard/Crimson Guard)
Slardar (Vanguard/Crimson Guard)
Lina (Bloodstone?)
Medusa (Butterfly)
Meepo (Vanguard/Crimson Guard)
Necrophos (Vanguard/Crimson Guard)
Omniknight (Vanguard/Crimson Guard)
Nyx Assassin (Blink Dagger)
Outworld Devourer (remove Mekansm)
Phoenix (Aghanim's Scepter - Situational?, Ring of Protection - Starting items)
Puck (Aghanim's Scepter - Extension items)
Pudge (Tranquil Boots/Remove Phase)
Visage (Ring of Protection - starting items)
Razor (Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard, Butterfly)
Shadow Fiend (Butterfly)
Luna (Butterfly)
Silencer (Meka, Item Build rework maybe?)
Storm Spirit (Soul Ring)
Sven (Aghanim's Scepter - Situational)
Templar Assassin (MKB to Situational Items)
Tidehunter (Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard)
Timbersaw (Aghanim's Scepter, Soul Ring)
Tinker (Bloodstone)
Treant Protector (Soul Ring, Aghanim's Scepter, Vanguard/Crimson Guard)
Undying (Meka/Vanguard/Crimson Guard, Aghanim's Scepter, description changes)
Venomancer (Alternative core build revolving around blink + Aghanim's?, description change)
Witch Doctor (Soul Ring)
Zeus (Blink Dagger)
Viper (Ring of Protection/Vanguard/Crimson Guard)
Ogre Magi (Soul Ring, Mid guide?)
Hero Guides Complete Revision:
+ Show Spoiler +Alchemist (remove Greevil's Gold item section ability [lvl2], rework Support/Ganker item builds and section to more traditional)
Bloodseeker (lfjbwafhgwhbgpauphrpgfhw, added blademail/euls?) - Do lane guide
Chen (Aghanim's Core, Holy Persuasion Description rewrite, Lane Guide?)
Earth Spirit (Lane Guide, Aghanim's Scepter, Description Change, Item Build)
Huskar (Item rework, ability description rework)
Invoker (ohgnpanpgn) - no idea
Lone Druid (bear rework holy shit)
Mirana (Butterfly)
Leshrac (early Soul Ring/Bloodstone - Ability Pulse Nova check)
Phantom Lancer (wafwhn;gw)
Nature's Prophet (Butterfly, Remove Item Build Sections + Descriptions)
Warlock (Mid guide)
Beastmaster (Ancients pulling remove, Meka/Soul Ring/Vanguard/Crimson Guard + Mid guide lvl 2 aura then max creeps, Medallion Situational or Early Game)
Items to consider (when editing guides):
+ Show Spoiler +Crimson Guard
Vanguard
Cloak/Hood of Defiance/Pipe of Insight (additive effects)
Bloodstone
Blink Dagger
Aghanim's Scepter
Mekansm (replace/remove)
Ring of Protection (replace/remove)
Butterfly (change description)
Bottle (dual runes)
- I'll updating this section throughout the day [it's 6:30 AM here so I got tons of time to work]
- Changes not final and subject to change pre and post-patch release
- Feedback severely appreciated. I will be working on this all day.
- 6:00-9:00 Draft done
- 9:00-10:00 Formatting/Update done (Excel Sheet, Front Page, Patch Notes)
- 10:00-3:00 Breakfast/Lunch, Gathering opinions/feedback/ideas/advice
- Day 2: 6:00 to 10:00 Breakfast, Draft Initial Title Changes to Unchanged Hero Guides
- Day 2: 10:00 to 3:00 Hero, Item and Build Changes
- Day 3: 11:00 to 2:00 Publishing and Minor Changes
New Colour for 6.82 picked out (blue) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CX6MPbQ.png)
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I'll be making some guide changes now, they won't be published until patch day to avoid confusion to any subscribers. But in case you guys need to see the guides in full, I can provide images without a problem.
I'm also making a few new guides [in anticipation for the new changes]:
Ogre Magi Mid
Bloodseeker Lane,
Earth Spirit Lane,
Chen Lane (if it it makes sense),
Warlock Mid guide,
Gyrocopter Mid
I also have to do some job applications so midway I'll take a break.
I want to note that these guides still lack ratings. Technically, they are in the client but not in the listing due to other guides being higher (most are now 70+). So if you could, in good conscience, rate them up, more users would use them and we can push down the 2013 shitty non-updated guides that still stay at the top (aka DMX garbage). This system is really fucking annoying and terrible:
Kunkka (Middle) Build
Weaver (Lane) Build
Dragon Knight (Middle) Build
Skywrath Mage (Lane) Build
Tusk (Middle) Build
Naga Siren (Middle) Build
Elder Titan (Lane) Build
Ursa (Lane) Build
Nyx Assassin (Lane) Build
Axe (Jungle) Build
Ember Spirit (Middle) Build
Lifestealer (Lane) Build
Shadow Shaman (Middle) Build
Earth Spirit (Middle) Build
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Hero Guide Changes and Patch Notes (applied)
Guides that only receive title and "last updated" changes (plus minor description changes) are not listed here
+ Show Spoiler [unlisted changes + inquiries] +- Abaddon
- Ancient Apparition (Lane/Middle)
- Anti-Mage
- Brewmaster
- Broodmother
- Chaos Knight
- Clockwerk
- Dark Seer
- Dazzle
- Death Prophet
- Dragon Knight (Lane/Middle)
- Drow Ranger
- Ember Spirit (Lane/Middle)
- Enigma
- Faceless Void
- Gyrocopter
- Huskar
- Invoker
- Juggernaut
- Kunkka (Lane/Middle)
- Lifestealer (Jungle/Lane)
- Lina
- Lion
- Luna
- Lycan (Jungle/Lane)
- Magnus
- Medusa
- Mirana
- Morphling
- Naga Siren (Lane/Middle)
- Nightstalker
- Nyx Assassin (Jungle/Lane)
- Phantom Assassin
- Razor
- Sand King
- Shadow Demon
- Shadow Shaman (Middle)
- Silencer
- Skywrath Mage (Middle)
- Slardar
- Slark (Middle)
- Spectre
- Terrorblade
- Tinker
- Tiny (Lane/Middle)
- Tusk (Lane/Middle)
- Ursa (Jungle/Lane)
- Witch Doctor
- Wraith King
- Zeus
Hero, Item and Skill Build Changes (6.82)
 Alchemist
Reworked entire item build section
New Skill Build: W Q E W W R W Q Q Q R E E E (1. Unstable Concoction 2. Acid Spray 3. Greevil's Greed)
Removed previous tabs Carry/Ganker/Support
Added Soul Ring to Core Items
Added Malestrom to Core Items
Added Basher to Core Items
Added Mjollnir to Extension Items
Added Abyssal Blade to Extension Items
Added Daedalus to Extension Items
Removed Satanic
Added Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Situaitonal Items
Moved Butterfly to Situational Items
Moved Medallion of Courage to Situational Items
 Axe (Jungle/Lane)
Axe (Jungle/Lane)
Removed Vanguard
Removed Hood of Defiance
Added Pipe of Insight to Situational Items
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
 Bane
Necromonicon moved to Situational Items
Aghanim's Scepter added to Core Items
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items
Removed Ghost Scepter
 Beastmaster (Lane/Middle)
Beastmaster (Lane/Middle)
change hero description to reflect you can now stack ancients on radiant or dire
New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q R Q W W E R E E E (1. Whirling Axes 2. Call of the Wild 3. Inner Beast)
Added Bottle to Ancient-Farming
 Bloodseeker (Middle)
New Skill Build: Q W W E W R W Q Q Q R E E E (1. Blood Rite 2. Bloodrage 3. Thirst)
Starting Items: Tangos, Stout Shield
Early Game: Bottle, Boots of Speed
Core Items: Power Treads, Blade Mail, Sange
One or Other: Sange & Yasha, Halberd
Situational Items: Dagon, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Black King Bar
Extension Items: Heart of Tarrasque, Butterfly, Abyssal Blade
Bounty Hunter
Added Bottle to Early Game
Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Updated Track description
 Bristleback
Created new tab: Replace Crimson Guard
Added Crimson Guard to Core Items
Moved Pipe of Insight to "Replace Crimson Guard"
Moved Mekansm to "Replace Crimson Guard"
Removed Vanguard
Centaur Warrunner
Removed Mekansm
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
 Chen
Added New Tab: Core Items - Aghanim's
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items - Aghanim's
Added Arcane Boots to Core Items - Aghanim's
Added Necromonicon to Core Items
Added Necromonicon to Core Items - Aghanim's
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Extension Items
 Clinkz
Added new tab: Situational Items
Added Helm of the Dominator to Core Items
Added Diffusal Blade to Situational Items
Added Satanic to Extension Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Crystal Maiden
Removed Bracer
Moved Urn of Shadows to Core Items
 Disruptor
Added Bottle to Situational Items
 Doom (Jungle)
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items
Doom (Lane)
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items
 Earthshaker
Added Bottle to Early Game
Removed 3x Clarity
Removed Urn of Shadows
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Added Refresher's Orb to Extension Items
Earth Spirit
Removed Mekansm
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Elder Titan (Lane)
Added Bottle to Core Items
Removed Soul Ring
Added Pipe of Insight to Situational Items
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Elder Titan (Middle)
Added Crimson Guard to Extension Items
 Enchantress
Moved Force Staff to Core Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Added Urn of Shadows to Core Items
Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Removed Rod of Atos
Removed Mekansm to Situational Items
Removed Eul's Scepter of Divinity
Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items
IO
Added Bottle to Core Items
Removed Soul Ring
 Jakiro
New Skill Build: E W E Q E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. Liquid Fire 2. Dual Breath 3. Ice Path)
Keeper of the Light
New Skill Build: Q E E Q W R Q Q E E R W W W R (1. Illuminate 2. Chakra Magic 3. Mana Leak)
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Legion Commander (Jungle/Middle)
Added Armlet of Mordiggan to Situational Items
Added Malestrom to Situational Items
Removed Heart of Tarrasque
Added Abyssal Blade to Extension Items
 Leshrac
Removed Tab: Core Items - Carry (will make separate mid guide)
New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q R Q W W E R E E E R (1. Split Earth 2. Diabolic Edict 3. Lightning Storm)
Added Urn of Shadows to Core Items
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Core Items
Added Bottle to Situational Items
 [u]Lich
New Skill Build: E Q Q E Q R Q W E E R W W W (1. Frost Blast 2. Sacrifice 3. Ice Armor)
Added Force Staff to Extension Items
Lone Druid (Jungle)
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Added Necromonicon to Extension Bear Items
Added Necromonicon to Extension Druid Items
Added Mask of Madness to Extension Bear Items
Added Abyssal Blade to Extension Bear Items
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Added Mjollnir to Extension Bear Items
Added Town Portal Scroll to Core Items
Removed Hand of Midas
Removed Orb of Venom
Removed Assault Cuirass
Removed Monkey King Bar
Lone Druid (Lane)
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Added Necromonicon to Extension Bear Items
Added Necromonicon to Extension Druid Items
Added Mask of Madness to Extension Bear Items
Added Abyssal Blade to Extension Bear Items
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Added Mjollnir to Extension Bear Items
Added Town Portal Scroll to Core Items
Moved Radiance to Situational Items
Removed Hand of Midas
Removed Assault Cuirass
Removed Monkey King Bar
 Meepo
Removed Assault Cuirass
Nature's Prophet
Reworked entire item build section
Core Items - Carry: Hand of Midas, Phase Boots, Maelstrom, Desolator, Mjollnir, Daedalus, Scythe of Vyse
Core Items - Pusher: Hand of Midas, Treads, Shadow Blade, Mekansm, Necromonicon, Desolator
Situational Items: Drums of Endurance, Black King Bar, Orchid of Malevolence, Monkey King Bar
Necrophos
Removed Vanguard
Ogre Magi
Added Bottle to Early Game
Removed Urn of Shadows
 Omniknight
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Outworld Devourer
Removed Mekansm
Added Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items
 Phantom Lancer (Middle)
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W (1. Phantom Lance 2. Phantom Rush 3. Doppelganger
Added Medallion of Courage to Situational Items
Moved Drums of Endurance to Early Game
Removed Yasha
Removed Ring of Basilius
Phoenix (Lane/Middle)
Phoenix (Lane/Middle)
Removed Necromonicon
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items
 Puck
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
 Pudge
Add wand to Early Game or Ring of Protection to Starting Items?
Removed Phase Boots
Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Added Magic Wand to Early Game
 Pugna
Added Bottle to Situational Items
 Riki
New Skill Build: W E E Q E R E W W W R Q Q Q (1. Backstab 2. Permanent Invisibility 3. Smoke Screen)
Removed Healing Salve
Added 3x Iron Branch
Added Magic Wand to Early Game
Added Orb of Venom to Utility Items
Updated Descriptions for Blink Strike and Permanent Invisibility
 Rubick
Added Bottle to Early Game
 Shadow Shaman (Lane)
Added Bottle to Situational Items
Spirit Breaker
New Skill Build: Q W E Q Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Charge of Darkness 2. Empowering Haste 3. Greater Bash)
Skywrath Mage (Lane)
Added Bottle to Situational Items
Removed Urn of Shadows
 Slark (Lane)
Removed Healing Salve
Added Iron Branch to Starting Items
 Sniper (Lane)
Removed Healing Salve
Added Ring of Protection
[u]Shadow Fiend
New Skill Build: W Q Q W Q W Q W R E R E E E (1. Raze 2. Necromastery 3. Presence of the Dark Lord)
Storm Spirit
Moved Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Soul Ring to Core Items - Bloodstone (SR -> Arcane -> Bloodstone)
 Sven
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items
Techies
Moved Bloodstone to Extension Items (previous Extensive Extension Items)
Templar Assassin
Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational Items
 Tidehunter
Removed Mekansm
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
 Timbersaw
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Treant Protector
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Added Pipe of Insight to Situaitonal Items
Troll Warlord
for some reason, there were no extension items written here...
Added Butterfly to Extension Items
Added Satanic to Extension Items
Added Daedalus to Extension Items
Added Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items
Added Sange & Yasha to Situational Items
Created new tab: Roshan at Level 11
Created new tab: Start Jungling
Moved Helm of the Dominator to tab "Roshan at Level 11"
Moved Morbid Mask to tab "Start Jungling"
 Undying
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Vengeful Spirit
Added Bottle to Early Game
Removed Healing Salve from Starting Items
 Venomancer
Created New Tab: Core Items - Aghanim's
Added Blink Dagger to Core Items - Aghanim's
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items - Aghanim's
Added Arcane Boots to Core Items - Aghanim's
 Viper
Removed Circlet of Nobility
Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items
 Visage
Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items
Moved Rod of Atos to Situational Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Removed Iron Branch
 Weaver (Lane)
Removed Tango
Removed Ring of Protection
Added Malestrom to Core Items
Moved Ring of Aquila to Situational Items
Removed Radiance
Weaver (Middle)
Moved Ring of Aquila to Situational Items
Added Maelstrom to Core Items
Removed Radiance
Added Bottle to Early Game
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United States47024 Posts
On September 26 2014 07:35 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 07:05 TheYango wrote:On September 26 2014 07:04 Sn0_Man wrote:
Thats how it used to work since u had to max bash to get damage.
Now the first level of bash is enough damage and the next levels of it read "miniscule damage increase" so u don't get them early. No, 4-1-1-1 was the right way to play SB before as well. Anyone who did otherwise had no clue how to play the hero, lol. 1-1-4-1 was only right if you were getting farmed as a safe lane core or playing mid for whatever reason, which are both shitty ways to play the hero anyway because his ass BAT after the nerf makes it impossible for him to go anywhere lategame. I mean, 1-1-4-1 at least u did damage. 4-1-1-1 u didn't do anything at all before. Like, u got a 2s stun basically, thats it. There's no way it was any good. This is from an offlane perspective too since it's the only lane the hero had any application in imo.
4-1-1-1 ganked laning phase way better, because your combo damage is largely inconsequential compared to your charge speed for laning phase ganks (especially pre-6 when you don't have Ulti to get a 2nd Bash, and can't reliably Bash with right-clicks cuz your attack speed isn't high enough with your shit BAT). Most kills in mid or safe lane have enough damage regardless of your Bash rank, it's just a matter of getting a better initiation position because of how much faster your charge speed is--which is what Charge ranks are all about anyway. The biggest meaningful impact from leveling Charge isn't the stun duration, it's that 150 higher Charge MS makes a big difference in how your opponents can react to Charge ganks.
If you have godly luck and always got a 2nd autoattack Bash, then sure it's fine, but level 3 and 5 ganks are way better with 2-0-1 or 3-1-1 because faster charge MS makes a bigger difference than the 30-ish damage increase on a single Bash. 1-1-3 looks a lot better past 6, but IMO offlane SB has to look to gank way before then because the only reason he gets anything on off-lane is his godly base stats--after like level 3-4 it gets hard because supports get rank 2 nukes so your base stats don't save you anymore.
I actually played 1-1-3 for the longest time until I saw PIS and 820 play 3-1-1 SB and tried it myself, and never went back. The charge MS makes a difference that's really hard to quantify if you're just running the numbers but feels really meaningful when you actually play it.
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All guides published.
Elder Titan (Lane): Removed Soul Ring and Added Bottle to Core Items
Treant Protector: Added Aghanim's to Core Items
Bloodseeker (Middle): New Skill Build: Q, W, W, E, W, R, W, Q, Q, Q R, W, W, W (1. Blood Rite 2. Bloodrage 3. Thirst)
One in Q to help with last-hitting
Bottle for Bloodseeker
Starting Items remain the same
Phantom Lancer (Lane): New Skill Build: Q, E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E
Lone Druid:
Added Crimson Guard to Extension Bear Items
Added Necromonicon to Extension Bear Items
Added Necromonicon to Extension Druid Items
Added Mask of Madness to Extension Bear Items
Added Abyssal Blade to Extension Bear Items
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Added Mjollnir to Extension Bear Items
Moved Radiance to Situational Items
Removed Hand of Midas
Removed Assault Cuirass
Removed Monkey King Bar
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MoM and double necro on spirit bear is probably pretty legit
I'll give LD a whirl in a pub right now and see how it works
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On September 26 2014 09:31 tehh4ck3r wrote:
MoM and double necro on spirit bear is probably pretty legit
I'll give LD a whirl in a pub right now and see how it works
Thanks! I'll do Phantom Lancer right now!
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I can't really judge the build accurately from the game I played because there was an early abandon but MoM bear shits on towers
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Do you think jungling Phantom Lancer is possible now if we get Doppelganger first?
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On September 26 2014 10:00 tehh4ck3r wrote:
I can't really judge the build accurately from the game I played because there was an early abandon but MoM bear shits on towers
I think MoM can be situationally good, but Necro3: the stats are lost. I'll add MoM, Medallion, Abyssal Blade, Satanic also good.
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Feedback and criticism really needed as some of these I'm slightly unsure. I'm also very tired (it's 4AM). So I'll be back tomorrow to make fixes and repairs + the new guides.
Links have been added to each hero in the patch notes for easy access.
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Phantom Lancer should definately max Phantom Rush over Doppelganger. All that scales on Doppelganger is the cooldown, and you don't need to cast it that often, especially early.
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On September 26 2014 14:45 OmegaPython wrote:
Phantom Lancer should definately max Phantom Rush over Doppelganger. All that scales on Doppelganger is the cooldown, and you don't need to cast it that often, especially early.
Yeah, I was looking at that.
10 second cooldown is pretty good, but Phantom Rush also seems situationally better. What do you think?
I reversed them, so Phantom Rush is maxed.
Also added Medallion to Situational Items, updated
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What do you guys think of adding a tab for ganking Sven?
Bottle -> Tranquils -> Drums -> Medallion -> Aghs
Max Q -> E
Too gimmicky?
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United States47024 Posts
Roaming Sven still gets Treads. There's not really a need for Tranquils since War Cry already gives you MS advantage over most heroes and you're gated way more by mana early game than by HP because of how ridiculously high Storm Bolt mana is. Treads swap gives you some leeway with mana, and is much easier to transition into farming midgame compared to Tranquils.
Item progression after Boots is situational but doesn't deviate that hard from normal Sven. Medallion is situational and mediocre unless your team has a specific need for -armor.
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On September 26 2014 15:31 TheYango wrote:
Roaming Sven still gets Treads. There's not really a need for Tranquils since War Cry already gives you MS advantage over most heroes and you're gated way more by mana early game than by HP because of how ridiculously high Storm Bolt mana is.
Item progression after Boots is situational but doesn't deviate that hard from normal Sven. Medallion is situational and mediocre unless your team has a specific need for -armor.
Advice on Bloodseeker mid and Leshrac getting lvl 6 ult?
I like having BS go mid and max Blood Rite into Thirst with the first point in Blood Rage to survive in lane. I like getting Bottle on him and then just going Phase -> Basher -> BKB, but he may be played a bit differently now.
I'll add a tab for roaming Sven then.
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United States47024 Posts
I don't see a point in running BS mid anymore when the strength of the new Bloodrage is largely on how well it combos with other heroes.
Lesh ult at 6 is fine.
On September 26 2014 15:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
I like having BS go mid and max Blood Rite into Thirst with the first point in Blood Rage to survive in lane. I like getting Bottle on him and then just going Phase -> Basher -> BKB, but he may be played a bit differently now.
Bottle-Crow max Blood Rite BS seems appealing until you realize how abysmal the CD is. It's really prohibitive to try and play it like other Bottle-Crow mids, especially since the damage values are scaled based on Pure damage's advantage against heroes (creeps have no magic resistance, so mediocre amounts of pure damage is inferior to higher Magic or Physical damage for the purposes of clearing creeps in lane).
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On September 26 2014 15:33 TheYango wrote:
I don't see a point in running BS mid anymore when the strength of the new Bloodrage is largely on how well it combos with other heroes.
Lesh ult at 6 is fine.
It's still a viable way so I can't, unfortunately, abandon the guide (especially with how many subscribers it has).
When I create the lane version, I was thinking of maxing Bloodrage and Thirst with W getting one point since it is decent at level 1 for silence.
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EPT
