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Is the metro interface that big of a deal? I mean, when I log in, it brings it up, but then I click on DESKTOP, then I just spend all my time there.
There are few cosmetic and ui changes, but ultimately, it's mostly the same as win7/xp to me. I haven't had stability or speed issues, so there's that...
I think the start menu and more metro options (disable?) will be available in 8.1, which I believe is coming out soon...
Ideally, I'd just use a windows VM in linux to game, but there isn't good hardware support for that, and VGA-passthrough methods are iffy for specific cards. I'm also not sure how easy/hard VGA-passthrough is to setup for a VM...
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On October 18 2013 17:08 wptlzkwjd wrote:
Don't judge it before you've fully tried the experience. I'm probably biased though because I loved the new changes the first time I saw Windows 8 because I love having a very clean and tidy desktop and magically (the lack of a Windows button) being able to make all my programs appear full screen was almost like a rich Bruce Wayne/Batman fantasy (albeit a more colorful one).
You could always autohide the taskbar... that's not ideal, but your programs will still take up all the screen when you maximize them.
Honestly, in terms of practicality it doesn't matter because you're going to be searching for something anyways. You can always type in whatever program you want to run without having to search for it.
I do that with dmenu on linux (or a non-obtrusive gmrun-like thing for full commands). I can type while looking at the screen and not at the keyboard. I can still look at something else while launching a program. I can run any script, be it upgrading some software, altering configuration, download software, taking notes in a plaintext file, without missing a second of my fullscreen film.
I can't do that with an obtrusive fullscreen menu. The start menu was not great, but for that matter it was a bit better. And you could still just hit the Win key, then type in whatever you want to search or run, and it didn't take up one full screen in the default setup.
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windows 7 is nice but ive been using Ubuntu Linux since the frozen throne was still new-ish.
i would rather loose an eye then going to windows 8, i just hate every change they made after 7.
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I don't really get the hate for W8/8.1. In actual use, it's practically the same as W7, which most people seem to like well enough. Most of the changes are basically insignificant. Although I kind of felt the same about the going from vista to W7, so I may be in the minority.
Sure the w8 start screen and W8 'apps' are incredibly pointless for a mouse+kb setup, but you never have to use them and they do make sense in a touch environment.
It takes maybe 5 days to get used to it if you put any effort into it. I think most people are just pissed that things have changed. Most of the ui changes and various design decisions are pointless for most people, but I don't think they've made W8 objectively worse in the end.
The most significant ui change is probably the new PC settings app where some relatively important options are placed/replicated/hidden. It's pretty much the only place where you have to deal with a full screen metro app, and even then only occasionally.
On October 18 2013 19:15 Natolumin wrote:
I do that with dmenu on linux (or a non-obtrusive gmrun-like thing for full commands). I can type while looking at the screen and not at the keyboard. I can still look at something else while launching a program. I can run any script, be it upgrading some software, altering configuration, download software, taking notes in a plaintext file, without missing a second of my fullscreen film.
I can't do that with an obtrusive fullscreen menu. The start menu was not great, but for that matter it was a bit better. And you could still just hit the Win key, then type in whatever you want to search or run, and it didn't take up one full screen in the default setup.
In 8.1, the search function has been brought back up to par. You don't need to know if you need to do a app,settings, or file search anymore, which was probably the dumbest thing about windows 8. The search sidebar only covers up about a fifth of the screen if you search with one of the dedicated search shortcuts (win + (q,w,f,s)) or the charms bar.
Once you know some of the new keyboard shortcuts, some things are a bit faster/more convenient than before.
I only ever used the start menu to search for stuff, and I never really felt that covering the screen for a couple of seconds when my focus would have been on the search anyways was truly detrimental in any way.
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Still at windows 7 here, been thinking about trying out win8 though since having new features is always fun to test things out. Just doesn't look like there was that many changes worth spending any money on which reminds me of XP to Vista when I swapped those I immediately regretted it. If I had a touchscreen monitor I would for sure switch though that does look pretty sweet.
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Most people who shit on Windows 8 but love Windows 7 are pretty ignorant. They are extremely alike, it's just that Windows 8 introduced the new Start Menu which catches everybody's attention. Apart from that it's basically the same or faster / better. So if you just completely ignore the new Start Menu you'll end up with Windows 7 but better, which is what I'm doing.
With the new option to boot straight to desktop you don't even need to actively ignore it, you just never see it again and forget it existed in the first place. I did use Start8 to bring back the old start menu (and skip the new start menu on boot, a feature introduced natively with 8.1 as well) since I hardly use the start menu to begin with so I don't see the need for a full screen version with fancy tiles -- though looking at it now it seems the new Start works perfectly fine as well for just searching some stuff every now and then. I use Launcy to launch my applications and do other stuff (logging out / shutting down etc) so while I agree they made e.g. shutting down tedious (it needed many actions) it never affected me personally anyway.
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On October 21 2013 21:38 dani` wrote:
Most people who shit on Windows 8 but love Windows 7 are pretty ignorant. They are extremely alike, it's just that Windows 8 introduced the new Start Menu which catches everybody's attention. Apart from that it's basically the same or faster / better. So if you just completely ignore the new Start Menu you'll end up with Windows 7 but better, which is what I'm doing.
With the new option to boot straight to desktop you don't even need to actively ignore it, you just never see it again and forget it existed in the first place. I did use Start8 to bring back the old start menu (and skip the new start menu on boot, a feature introduced natively with 8.1 as well) since I hardly use the start menu to begin with so I don't see the need for a full screen version with fancy tiles -- though looking at it now it seems the new Start works perfectly fine as well for just searching some stuff every now and then. I use Launcy to launch my applications and do other stuff (logging out / shutting down etc) so while I agree they made e.g. shutting down tedious (it needed many actions) it never affected me personally anyway.
Well i have windows 8 and windows 7 and i fail to see how am i ignorant..
Softwares that need a windows account are bullshit because downloading programms is a pain in the ass. Every time i open an office file it goes full screen and it mask the bar so i can't switch between programs easily. the window update thing that takes quite a lot of ressources. 20updates per week with restart of the computer without being asked.
Or even better : "your computer will restart in 2hours" and you can't do squat about it. That's not happening in W7. They are little small thing in W8 that are annoying. Just small little things. That's why i like W7 a lot more than W8.
Also updates on restart takes like FOREVER to load on a good computer (ASus rog G70)
For a casual user that don't know a lot about computer here's what i hear =>
- Option to boot straight to desktop does not exist.
- Using start menu is mandatory
- It's annoying to have to shut down the computer by pressing the button... i can't shutdown when i am into windows...
- Where the hell are my applications ? I installed a bunch of things and i can't find them anymore
So.. I think you have a faire point but the first sentence : people are ignorant...
You modify the way W8 works by default,
You use programs to do action that W8 can do (ie shutdown when you know how to find it).
So you don't use the settings that a new user can have.
Also a lot of people think that they need to use the metro interface now which piss them off.
W8 is a pain in the ass because everytime a new friend/family person have it. I have tons of phone calls about how you do this or that 
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On October 21 2013 21:57 FFW_Rude wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 21 2013 21:38 dani` wrote:
Most people who shit on Windows 8 but love Windows 7 are pretty ignorant. They are extremely alike, it's just that Windows 8 introduced the new Start Menu which catches everybody's attention. Apart from that it's basically the same or faster / better. So if you just completely ignore the new Start Menu you'll end up with Windows 7 but better, which is what I'm doing.
With the new option to boot straight to desktop you don't even need to actively ignore it, you just never see it again and forget it existed in the first place. I did use Start8 to bring back the old start menu (and skip the new start menu on boot, a feature introduced natively with 8.1 as well) since I hardly use the start menu to begin with so I don't see the need for a full screen version with fancy tiles -- though looking at it now it seems the new Start works perfectly fine as well for just searching some stuff every now and then. I use Launcy to launch my applications and do other stuff (logging out / shutting down etc) so while I agree they made e.g. shutting down tedious (it needed many actions) it never affected me personally anyway. Well i have windows 8 and windows 7 and i fail to see how am i ignorant.. Softwares that need a windows account are bullshit because downloading programms is a pain in the ass. Every time i open an office file it goes full screen and it mask the bar so i can't switch between programs easily. the window update thing that takes quite a lot of ressources. 20updates per week with restart of the computer without being asked. Or even better : "your computer will restart in 2hours" and you can't do squat about it. That's not happening in W7. They are little small thing in W8 that are annoying. Just small little things. That's why i like W7 a lot more than W8. Also updates on restart takes like FOREVER to load on a good computer (ASus rog G70) For a casual user that don't know a lot about computer here's what i hear => - Option to boot straight to desktop does not exist. - Using start menu is mandatory - It's annoying to have to shut down the computer by pressing the button... i can't shutdown when i am into windows... - Where the hell are my applications ? I installed a bunch of things and i can't find them anymore So.. I think you have a faire point but the first sentence : people are ignorant... You modify the way W8 works by default, You use programs to do action that W8 can do (ie shutdown when you know how to find it). So you don't use the settings that a new user can have. Also a lot of people think that they need to use the metro interface now which piss them off. W8 is a pain in the ass because everytime a new friend/family person have it. I have tons of phone calls about how you do this or that
I don't understand why you are using apps instead of traditional desktop software? And you fail to see how you're ignorant...
The restart crap happens in Windows 7 as well, it's just less pushy about it.
Most people complaining about Windows 8 aren't your typical users so yes most of them are ignorant.
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On October 22 2013 00:14 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 21:57 FFW_Rude wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 21 2013 21:38 dani` wrote:
Most people who shit on Windows 8 but love Windows 7 are pretty ignorant. They are extremely alike, it's just that Windows 8 introduced the new Start Menu which catches everybody's attention. Apart from that it's basically the same or faster / better. So if you just completely ignore the new Start Menu you'll end up with Windows 7 but better, which is what I'm doing.
With the new option to boot straight to desktop you don't even need to actively ignore it, you just never see it again and forget it existed in the first place. I did use Start8 to bring back the old start menu (and skip the new start menu on boot, a feature introduced natively with 8.1 as well) since I hardly use the start menu to begin with so I don't see the need for a full screen version with fancy tiles -- though looking at it now it seems the new Start works perfectly fine as well for just searching some stuff every now and then. I use Launcy to launch my applications and do other stuff (logging out / shutting down etc) so while I agree they made e.g. shutting down tedious (it needed many actions) it never affected me personally anyway. Well i have windows 8 and windows 7 and i fail to see how am i ignorant.. Softwares that need a windows account are bullshit because downloading programms is a pain in the ass. Every time i open an office file it goes full screen and it mask the bar so i can't switch between programs easily. the window update thing that takes quite a lot of ressources. 20updates per week with restart of the computer without being asked. Or even better : "your computer will restart in 2hours" and you can't do squat about it. That's not happening in W7. They are little small thing in W8 that are annoying. Just small little things. That's why i like W7 a lot more than W8. Also updates on restart takes like FOREVER to load on a good computer (ASus rog G70) For a casual user that don't know a lot about computer here's what i hear => - Option to boot straight to desktop does not exist. - Using start menu is mandatory - It's annoying to have to shut down the computer by pressing the button... i can't shutdown when i am into windows... - Where the hell are my applications ? I installed a bunch of things and i can't find them anymore So.. I think you have a faire point but the first sentence : people are ignorant... You modify the way W8 works by default, You use programs to do action that W8 can do (ie shutdown when you know how to find it). So you don't use the settings that a new user can have. Also a lot of people think that they need to use the metro interface now which piss them off. W8 is a pain in the ass because everytime a new friend/family person have it. I have tons of phone calls about how you do this or that I don't understand why you are using apps instead of traditional desktop software? And you fail to see how you're ignorant... The restart crap happens in Windows 7 as well, it's just less pushy about it. Most people complaining about Windows 8 aren't your typical users so yes most of them are ignorant.
I don't use them. But most "normal" user are. But apperently we can't talk about those persons... We can only insult them.
The "restart crap" is not happening in W7 as it is with W8... 7 have the restart in the same place that vista had, Xp had, 98 had, 95 had.
Windows 8 have it hidden in some place elsewhere. There is little things like that, that was move because... no reason.
I have my computer on Windows 7. My GF computer is on Windows 8. I find annoying that i need to search for things that aren't in the same place. That i need to explain things that i would have not on windows 7 (where to find skype or teamspeak for example). I don't say Windows 8 is crap. It just that it's not as intuitive as the other windows.
For exemple : My Dad called me because he was "stuck" in Powerpoint... because he didn't know how to exit full screen. And Alt-Tab is for him science fiction (i'm exagerating) but he asks me everytime if i can put him on "the other windows. You know. The one that works"
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How am I insulting those people. Most of those people don't update to the latest operating systems just for the heck of it. Most of them are using OS X, Windows 7, Vista, or XP.
The restart crap does happen in Windows 7, it just takes longer than it does in Windows 8. The auto update actually has been drastically improved over Windows 7, believe it or not.
Windows 8 is less intuitive for the inefficient users but it's far from crap in comparison to other versions of crappy Windows which is what most people are saying when they complain.
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On October 22 2013 00:50 skyR wrote:
How am I insulting those people. Most of those people don't update to the latest operating systems just for the heck of it. Most of them are using OS X, Windows 7, Vista, or XP.
The restart crap does happen in Windows 7, it just takes longer than it does in Windows 8. The auto update actually has been drastically improved over Windows 7, believe it or not.
Windows 8 is less intuitive for the inefficient users but it's far from crap in comparison to other versions of crappy Windows which is what most people are saying when they complain.
Well i felt that the ignorant with dots was insulting. Maybe i got it the wrong way.
Well... if your a blue maybe you are more competent than i am talking about this. But for what i see with the 2 computer that i have at home. The updates are so fucking long on W8 and not in W7 (the windows 8 computer is far more powerfull than mine).
You say that W8 is great when you say yourself that you don't use the inbuilt functions as apps (well... i should say function )
So i don't understand..
Of course lamba user don't UPGRADE. They just buy new computer which comes with W8. And NO ONE updates "for the heck of it" (Or they have lots of money and don't know what to do with it)
Questions : (real ones)
- Do you use metro ?
- Do you use any of the new function of W8 ?
- Do you feel odd coming back to W7 (or XP for that matter) ? if yes why ?
- How have you delt with the start menu when it was W8.0 ?
Maybe the G70 that i got for my GF was with a W8 version with loads of apps/crap in it as sometimes "not homebuild cpu" are ? Maybe this is why i feel this way ?
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On October 22 2013 00:36 FFW_Rude wrote:
For exemple : My Dad called me because he was "stuck" in Powerpoint... because he didn't know how to exit full screen. And Alt-Tab is for him science fiction (i'm exagerating) but he asks me everytime if i can put him on "the other windows. You know. The one that works"
?
Powerpoint is the exact fucking same in Windows 7 and Windows 8.
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I never said Windows 8 is great. It's just less crappy than Windows 7. Lots of people update for the heck of it.
If you count searching as using metro than I use metro but besides that, I don't use metro.
Windows Defender is built into Windows 8 now, I guess if you count that as a new feature than I use that. But no I don't really use anything on Windows 8. It has better multi-monitor support but it still sucks compared to DisplayFusion. IE10 is better but I still prefer Chrome.
Why would I feel odd going back to 7 or XP. Search works exactly the same. I don't use start for anything besides search.
I'm not sure what you mean with how I dealt with the start menu when it was 8.0? Rarely when I need a software I don't have pinned, I hit windows key and search. I refuse to update to 8.1 because 8.1 does not support MSN (yes I still use this, Skype is a POS).
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On October 22 2013 01:18 skyR wrote:
Why would I feel odd going back to 7 or XP. Search works exactly the same. I don't use start for anything besides search.
I don't think you've used XP recently. Search on XP is just terrible.
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Ya XP was a long time ago. Most computers I use are on Vista or 7 now.
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On October 22 2013 00:36 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 00:14 skyR wrote:On October 21 2013 21:57 FFW_Rude wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 21 2013 21:38 dani` wrote:
Most people who shit on Windows 8 but love Windows 7 are pretty ignorant. They are extremely alike, it's just that Windows 8 introduced the new Start Menu which catches everybody's attention. Apart from that it's basically the same or faster / better. So if you just completely ignore the new Start Menu you'll end up with Windows 7 but better, which is what I'm doing.
With the new option to boot straight to desktop you don't even need to actively ignore it, you just never see it again and forget it existed in the first place. I did use Start8 to bring back the old start menu (and skip the new start menu on boot, a feature introduced natively with 8.1 as well) since I hardly use the start menu to begin with so I don't see the need for a full screen version with fancy tiles -- though looking at it now it seems the new Start works perfectly fine as well for just searching some stuff every now and then. I use Launcy to launch my applications and do other stuff (logging out / shutting down etc) so while I agree they made e.g. shutting down tedious (it needed many actions) it never affected me personally anyway. Well i have windows 8 and windows 7 and i fail to see how am i ignorant.. Softwares that need a windows account are bullshit because downloading programms is a pain in the ass. Every time i open an office file it goes full screen and it mask the bar so i can't switch between programs easily. the window update thing that takes quite a lot of ressources. 20updates per week with restart of the computer without being asked. Or even better : "your computer will restart in 2hours" and you can't do squat about it. That's not happening in W7. They are little small thing in W8 that are annoying. Just small little things. That's why i like W7 a lot more than W8. Also updates on restart takes like FOREVER to load on a good computer (ASus rog G70) For a casual user that don't know a lot about computer here's what i hear => - Option to boot straight to desktop does not exist. - Using start menu is mandatory - It's annoying to have to shut down the computer by pressing the button... i can't shutdown when i am into windows... - Where the hell are my applications ? I installed a bunch of things and i can't find them anymore So.. I think you have a faire point but the first sentence : people are ignorant... You modify the way W8 works by default, You use programs to do action that W8 can do (ie shutdown when you know how to find it). So you don't use the settings that a new user can have. Also a lot of people think that they need to use the metro interface now which piss them off. W8 is a pain in the ass because everytime a new friend/family person have it. I have tons of phone calls about how you do this or that I don't understand why you are using apps instead of traditional desktop software? And you fail to see how you're ignorant... The restart crap happens in Windows 7 as well, it's just less pushy about it. Most people complaining about Windows 8 aren't your typical users so yes most of them are ignorant. + Show Spoiler +I don't use them. But most "normal" user are. But apperently we can't talk about those persons... We can only insult them.
The "restart crap" is not happening in W7 as it is with W8... 7 have the restart in the same place that vista had, Xp had, 98 had, 95 had. Windows 8 have it hidden in some place elsewhere. There is little things like that, that was move because... no reason. + Show Spoiler +
I have my computer on Windows 7. My GF computer is on Windows 8. I find annoying that i need to search for things that aren't in the same place. That i need to explain things that i would have not on windows 7 (where to find skype or teamspeak for example). I don't say Windows 8 is crap. It just that it's not as intuitive as the other windows.
For exemple : My Dad called me because he was "stuck" in Powerpoint... because he didn't know how to exit full screen. And Alt-Tab is for him science fiction (i'm exagerating) but he asks me everytime if i can put him on "the other windows. You know. The one that works"
What?
Windows 7 (Laptop): http://imgur.com/SyFGXOb
Windows 8 (Desktop): http://imgur.com/b0cPlwQ
How is that a different position?
I personally have both set do "Check for updates automatically, download & install manually".
Also learn: Win-X most important shortcut in Win8.
Also shutting down Win8: Win-D Alt-F4 Enter.
For programs which you basically have always open: Pin them to your startbar. That's what it's for. And you can start them with Win-# (1-0 I think). So when I boot I hit Win (also removes the initial Metro) 1-2-3 and start my browser as well as 2 other programs which are running 100% of the time.
For StartMenu: I personally dont see a difference between hitting Win and then selecting the program from my StartMenu or hitting Win and then selecting the program from my Metro interface.
Also keep in mind that you can start additional instances of programs with holding the Shift-Key while starting them.
If you're 50+ and afraid of hotkeys. Yes, stay away from Win8. If not, adapt and be more productive (most of those shortcuts also work in previous Window versions).
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Skype is terrible with the IP stuff, forced auto updates (sometimes it will just NOT ask for permission), throwing ads (with volume!) in your face etc, didn't used to be that way. I don't actually know of a decent solution for IM with any kind of features (few people seem to be defaulting to stuff like IRC+teamspeak)
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On October 22 2013 01:22 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 01:18 skyR wrote:
Why would I feel odd going back to 7 or XP. Search works exactly the same. I don't use start for anything besides search. I don't think you've used XP recently. Search on XP is just terrible.
I miss using the keyboard to open stuff in one button from the start menu though, I used to just pin the programs I commonly used there with different letters, so firefox was win + i, word was win + w, etc. The best part was win + u + u to shutdown, so easy, although win + s was faster/more intuitive I guess from 95/98/2k. Now I have to type half the word in to get what I want...
I miss windows xp 
EDIT: And the fucking peeking "feature" from vista onwards when you're alt tabbing pisses me off. Not to mention adding the desktop as a "window" when you're alt tabbing, wtf that's what windows + D is for, it makes tabbing much more annoying as i hate tabbing between lots of things (faster to use mouse).
Most of the absurd features that were added from xp -> vista I've disabled on my win7 comp or I'd probably be on a different OS by now and just give up on games/engineering programs.
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XP is nice — it's good performance as far as I know (This guy had good experience with it although that's only 1 person with 1 game), and takes up very little hard drive space.
The downside is no official DX10+ support, but apparently it's been added in via 3rd party.
Default installs of XP probably also have security issues, and application support might be starting to get a little bit lacking now as well.
I heard that custom PC manufacturers have had a huge amount of consumers asking for Windows 7 over Windows 8. Apparently like 75% or something.
Windows 8 has very little to offer over 7 as far as I know aside from different UI. I wouldn't even consider Windows 8 before 8.1 came out. And if you already have Windows 8, apparently to upgrade to 8.1 will be a pain in the ass:
http://www.informationweek.com/software/windows8/microsoft-suspends-windows-rt-81-update/240162895
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Upgrading-from-Windows-8-1-Preview-to-RTM-Will-Remove-All-Installed-Apps-358777.shtm (doesn't seem to apply to to 8→8.1 though)
My OS is a stripped down version of 7 x64 so that it takes up only 5 GB of space (that's like the size of the Windows 8.1 update alone). With reduced services running it should be performing better as well.
Personally I'm not a fan of supporting Microsoft when there's no other option due to their monopoly on application support, and I'd just as well use a pirated version of Windows and not use any of their registered-user/paid services.
I like the concept of GNU-Linux but it's not entirely there with games support and several other major/minor applications many people may want to use.
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When I got my dad his new laptop I spent an extra hour configuring it installing programs to make it like windows 7. I found metro annoying as hell, its for tablets not for desktops. Then again Windows 2000 is still my favorite OS of all time followed closely by XP and 7 which are now indistinguishable from one another. I find myself googling answers for how to do basic things windows 8 that I knew how to do on 7 and previous versions. I think in an effort to make an OS appear more sleek they took away functionality and that is never something you should do. In the future we will get to the point where the traditional GUI goes bye bye but we are not at that point yet, and this felt alot like jumping the gun hence windows 8.1? I skipped vista because its annoying and was considering windows 8 until I read into metro. If I had a choice of operating system I'd have chosen 7 on my dads laptop. Right now its forced enjoyment of something that I am already loathing. And I'm hardly an ignorant computer user, I just hate the new interface and don't see myself adopting it until it is necessary.
If Metro is so good why was 8.1 which essentially does what alot of modders and programmers did with add on programs necessary? The answer is because although a group of people did like Metro a larger group of people didn't and its a realization that their market share would suffer as people look for solutions that are simply not metro. Anyone else having a flashback to Vista where retailers would offer the choice between XP and Vista and most users chose XP and microsoft called this, "choosing a more familiar user experience." that's PR spin at its finest.
And finally windows metro does have its place and that place is on touchscreen enviroments like tablets, phones, and Laptop/tablet hybrids. I don't see its place on my desktop computer. It should have been an option I could enable not something that is on by default.
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EPT
