EPTYou should just make sure the CPU you get is not one that was already used and tested by someone and then returned.
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 92
| Forum Index > Tech Support |
When using this resource, please read the opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
|
Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
You should just make sure the CPU you get is not one that was already used and tested by someone and then returned. | ||
|
IMKR
United States378 Posts
On November 05 2013 23:22 Haedley wrote: Anyone knows how long until the R9 GPUs get the new NeverSettle Bundle? The new Bundle has some interesting Games and I'm thinking about upgrading from a HD6870 to a R9 280x. ![[image loading]](http://images.gamestar.de/images/idgwpgsgp/bdb/2414879/600x.jpg) @CPU Upgraded from a Core2Duo E8400 to a i5-4570 a while ago and the performance gain in SC2 was quite huge for me. Had hard slowdowns if I played 4v4s before even on Medium. Now no Problem on High with Extreme Physics. Never mind !!!! I was ganna get the GTX series due to AC and Splinter cell. But if AMD will be soon giving out the list with watch dogs in it i will go for AMD over GTX. (since i hear AMD gpu are better than their corresponding GTX counterparts) and the main reason for my pc build is to play watchdogs sooooo free game :D so when is the new bundle coming? | ||
|
Nao
Poland166 Posts
On November 06 2013 11:34 Ropid wrote: Yeah i remember in the past, the first baths made were done on high quality part of silicon and as manufacturing process was tuned, same processors could be made with on the lower quality silicon. It resulted in poorer OC performance of later manufactured chips. Idk how is it right now.There's no way to do this. It's totally random as far as I know. I think I heard it was different in the past, but this is not how it is at this moment for the current CPUs. You should just make sure the CPU you get is not one that was already used and tested by someone and then returned. Thanks for the tip of checking the CPU for earlier use thou. After building many stock comps for friends I could forgot such obvious thing  | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20324 Posts
^good list, especially the charted results at the bottom Batch number vs chip quality seems pretty random, though there's maybe a few small trends, there's no reliable way to get a good chip | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On November 06 2013 06:25 Cyro wrote: 780's went from ~£500-530 to dipping to £380 with constant availability below £400, waiting on the non-ref 290's to undercut. Ref is £320, but it's not worth it if you gotta pay the same price as a good 780 model (after getting a custom cooler and fans, though i hear accelero's don't cost that much), because 780 is better 1080p card. We shouldn't have to mod stuff for basic function, delidding and replacing coolers on such expensive hardware because there is no other decent option is silly. Kind of worrying to see both parties crippling their high volume parts like this and arguably for both the 4770k and 290x, their flagship parts. There would not be such gains (i'm seeing >30c drops reported with noise levels cut to half to a third) unless the cooler was bad enough to be completely out of place on a high end card Hmm interesting. It's actually pretty weird that both AMD and Intel would cheap out on their high quality products. Reference cards have never been a suggested buy though, even when we were still buying 7900 cards. I think the 290's real value will be shown when Gigabyte and so on get their own coolers and PCBs on the market, I'm sure that they'll be much better than the reference 290 and those will be the real 290s that people should be getting. I don't get centrifugal fans. That shit is so 2005. They don't even look good. Intel Haswell is also retarded by the way. However, I think Haswell caters the market of noobies like me who don't overclock. My 4670 never goes above 60°C. However me 4670 is a lot slower than a 4670k with an average OC (since my CPU does everything I want it to, I'm not complaining ^^). Since the market of newbies who don't know how to overclock is probably larger than the market of those who know a lot and want to edge the most out of their equipment, Intel will just make a shit ton of shit that works well for the newbies. However I'm really curious as to how much money they really save using their cheap ass epoxy glue/thermal paste combo compared to soldering the IHS to the die. Arguably, even if they do save money, they're still being stupid about it since those products are supposedly high-end shit that's supposed to be amazing. Edit: Also I would not recommend the 770 2Gb. Either go 4Gb or find something else, because putting 2 Gb of VRAM on a 770 will put a bottleneck on the card when playing either Crysis 3 or BF4. Arguably, playing anything else should be fine, but if you're investing that much money into a GPU, you might as well get a card that won't bottleneck for a stupid reason like VRAM. I have no idea why they don't make a 770 Ti or something with 3Gb of VRAM and price it just so it fucks with the 7970/280X. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20324 Posts
I have no idea why they don't make a 770 Ti or something with 3Gb of VRAM 3gb difficult or impossible on 256 bit bus, would have to be 4gb, and we have those, but they're priced kind of silly. The 770 is pushed close to the limits of gk104 (it clocks to ~1100-1260 with stock+boost and can only reach ~1300mhz with 1.212v) so it's hard to push further. The only other silicon that Nvidia has is gk110 - which has waaaay more cores and the 384 bit memory bus 780 comes in with 50% more cores than 770, 50% wider memory bus, slightly slower VRAM. The stock clocks are painfully low in comparison - talking like 900mhz. If you ramp up the fans, they'll do 1300 on air, just like 770, only with 50% more cores. 770 = full gk104, 1536 core, 256 bit memory bus, 7ghz stock VRAM -nothing to insert here unless they design new dies like AMD did for the 290x and then disabled part for the 290 780 = gk110, 2304 core, 384 bit memory bus, 6ghz stock VRAM titan = gk110, 2688 core, 384 bit memory bus, 6ghz stock VRAM 780ti = gk110, 2880 core, 384 bit memory bus, 7ghz stock VRAM* Gk110 is far, far superior to gk104 - the gap seems much much smaller than it actually is in reviews, because stock reference boosts to about 900mhz on the 780 and less on the titan - that is, in reviews, 770's are clocked 30% or even more higher than gk110 cards. In the real world, they're not. You can easily throw a 40% OC on them (780) with a nonreference air cooler, because they're underclocked so hard at stock to have insanely good noise levels and thermals. AMD took the opposite approach and then screwed themselves with the terrible cooler on top of that *As a rule, you have (or usually have) an amount of VRAM corresponding to the size of memory bus: 256 = 128*2, 2gb/4gb 384 = 128*3, 3gb/6gb 512 = 128*4, 4gb (290/290x) | ||
|
Nao
Poland166 Posts
On November 06 2013 15:08 Cyro wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXDCk5eCp1gdEdENjlDYWl6ZnV4OVlNc0lMU1V3c1E&usp=sharing#gid=0 ^good list, especially the charted results at the bottom Batch number vs chip quality seems pretty random, though there's maybe a few small trends, there's no reliable way to get a good chip Thank you! For now I've bought bath 332 (costa rica) which is not on the list but there are two 331's (both not delided), so i think I'll stick with it. I have a feeling that the whole "TIM paste/CPU-to-IHS gap" inside the CPU gives more performance randomization than the manufacture date of the silicon die itself. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20324 Posts
I got a silver arrow for ~£50, and honestly i'm not temperature limited with hyperthreading off, though cooler temps is always nice. If you're ocing with good cooling up to like 1.35v, no need to delid. 1.4v even if you want to push it a bit. It's a bit more of an issue with HT, which adds like 15c at high overclock | ||
|
iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
E: Nvidia has done asymmetrical RAM before... 650 Ti Boost, 660, 660 Ti... 192-bit 2GB. I don't see why they couldn't now. I'm hoping for a larger than 384-bit on the 780 Ti because that seems to be why 4K on the 290X is soo damn good. | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On November 06 2013 15:47 Cyro wrote: I think 2gb of VRAM is fine for 1080 and will be for a little while if you dont plan on maxing everything, using a lot of msaa and/or increasing resolution (apparantly bf4 allocates more vram than it needs, and you can still lower textures etc) but it seems like a weakness for a high end card, next gen will be 3gb or 4gb mainstream i think depending on the memory bus, like 780/290 3gb difficult or impossible on 256 bit bus, would have to be 4gb, and we have those, but they're priced kind of silly. The 770 is pushed close to the limits of gk104 (it clocks to ~1100-1260 with stock+boost and can only reach ~1300mhz with 1.212v) so it's hard to push further. The only other silicon that Nvidia has is gk110 - which has waaaay more cores and the 384 bit memory bus 780 comes in with 50% more cores than 770, 50% wider memory bus, slightly slower VRAM. The stock clocks are painfully low in comparison - talking like 900mhz. If you ramp up the fans, they'll do 1300 on air, just like 770, only with 50% more cores. 770 = full gk104, 1536 core, 256 bit memory bus, 7ghz stock VRAM -nothing to insert here unless they design new dies like AMD did for the 290x and then disabled part for the 290 780 = gk110, 2304 core, 384 bit memory bus, 6ghz stock VRAM titan = gk110, 2688 core, 384 bit memory bus, 6ghz stock VRAM 780ti = gk110, 2880 core, 384 bit memory bus, 7ghz stock VRAM* Gk110 is far, far superior to gk104 - the gap seems much much smaller than it actually is in reviews, because stock reference boosts to about 900mhz on the 780 and less on the titan - that is, in reviews, 770's are clocked 30% or even more higher than gk110 cards. In the real world, they're not. You can easily throw a 40% OC on them (780) with a nonreference air cooler, because they're underclocked so hard at stock to have insanely good noise levels and thermals. AMD took the opposite approach and then screwed themselves with the terrible cooler on top of that *As a rule, you have (or usually have) an amount of VRAM corresponding to the size of memory bus: 256 = 128*2, 2gb/4gb 384 = 128*3, 3gb/6gb 512 = 128*4, 4gb (290/290x) That was really informative, thank you. ^^ | ||
|
sdqdsq
2 Posts
On November 06 2013 13:02 IMKR wrote: Never mind !!!! I was ganna get the GTX series due to AC and Splinter cell. But if AMD will be soon giving out the list with watch dogs in it i will go for AMD over GTX. (since i hear AMD gpu are better than their corresponding GTX counterparts) and the main reason for my pc build is to play watchdogs sooooo free game :D so when is the new bundle coming? Soon™ | ||
|
IdiotSavant
United States88 Posts
What is your budget? I'd say around $1,300 max before rebates/shipping/etc. What is your monitor's native resolution? 1680 X 1050 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? Every steam game possible. Currently main games I play are League of Legends, Starcraft 2, Diablo 3. Usually games I play will be on high-ultra unless its SC2 which I play at lowest possible. What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Watching streams and movies. Not a big art guy or programing. So just games, watching streams and tv shows online. Do you intend to overclock? Not atm...and possibly never since I don't know how to without reading up on it. Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? I hear this is a good thing for playing higher end games. Dunno how many AAA games I play but some I will be playing on ulrta settings so I guess I would unless its super hard to do Do you need an operating system? Nah Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? Nope....though I dunno what other peripherals I might need If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. None come to mind. What country will you be buying your parts in? USA If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. Preferably on newegg.com or amazon.com I don't have many/any good tech stores in my area of VA. Norfolk area Thanks for reading and any help you guys give me! If you have any questions feel free to ask  Edit: Was looking at this for some baseline shopping for me atm GAMING ENTHUSIAST 1080p ultra settings, overclocking, streaming, Crossfire / SLI ready Processor (CPU)[image loading] $230 [image loading] Intel Core i5 4670k Motherboard[image loading] $145 [image loading] Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H Memory (RAM)[image loading] $70 [image loading] G.Skill Ripjaws X 2x4GB 2133MHz Video Card (GPU)[image loading] $325 [image loading] Sapphire Radeon HD7970 Dual-X OC 3GB Primary Storage[image loading] $179 [image loading] Samsung 840 EVO 250GB Secondary Storage[image loading] $55 [image loading] Western Digital Blue 500GB Power Supply (PSU)[image loading] $100 [image loading] Seasonic SSR-650RM Case[image loading] $90 [image loading] Fractal Design Define R4 Black Windowed Heatsink[image loading] $60 [image loading] Noctua NH-U14S | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20324 Posts
On November 07 2013 02:23 iTzSnypah wrote: Oh noes. Anandtech has changed their OC procedure for Haswell and they aren't getting absolute crap results any more, too bad they are extolling the motherboard as being better instead of the new procedure (1.9v VRIN). E: Nvidia has done asymmetrical RAM before... 650 Ti Boost, 660, 660 Ti... 192-bit 2GB. I don't see why they couldn't now. I'm hoping for a larger than 384-bit on the 780 Ti because that seems to be why 4K on the 290X is soo damn good. We adjusted the multiplier from 40x upwards, starting at 1.000 volts with 1.9 volts on the FIVR That's still just as terrible, maybe even dangerous to the CPU. No more wall for mid-tier overclock, but stupid for low or high. They're not adjusting at all. The fact that the motherboard hit 4.7 GHz on my CPU (and kept OCCT under 90ºC) that commonly falls foul at 4.7 GHz is a pleasant surprise. It's a $150 mini-itx board, just shows that he has no idea what he is doing. Nothing wrong with the CPU E: Nvidia has done asymmetrical RAM before... 650 Ti Boost, 660, 660 Ti... 192-bit 2GB. I don't see why they couldn't now. Didn't remember this, thought it was a trend anyway I'm hoping for a larger than 384-bit on the 780 Ti because that seems to be why 4K on the 290X is soo damn good. 290x has 512 bit that clocks to like 5000-6000 though, not really seen higher, while mid-high 7000's is likely on the 780ti (it's confirmed 384 bit, btw) ^so they should have pretty similar raw bandwidth | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
There's no reason to deviate from the i5 4670k though, nor the GA Z87X-D3H motherboard which offers good support for overclocking (heatsink is also one of the best air coolers); even if you don't overclock now, having the ability to do so later will be useful. For a budget like yours, OC is recommended as it's more cost-efficient. Similarly, SSD for that budget is also recommended. Try to find good deals though Edit: By the way, looking for overclock guides on overclock.net. A bit tough finding a good one. I want to overclock my 7970 (because why not, right?) so I was looking at this guide: http://www.overclock.net/a/getting-started-with-radeon-hd-7970-overclocking I think when overclocking a GPU you up the core clock 10 Mhz at at time and then run a benchmark to test stability, when you find instability, back down 10 MHz and that's a "stable" overclock. Though apparently it depends on the game you're playing or the benchmark you're running. I could be stable in any game I play but not RTW2, or something. Not sure about memory clock or voltages. As for temperatures, I'll try to stay under 75°C (since i'm newb and I'm doing this for learning rather than performance gains). Are there other good resources to overclocking GPUs? | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
You don't even need to think either. Download EVGA Precision, add 38mV, change clock offsets till stable. Temperature is hardly a problem with a slightly more aggressive fan profile. On November 07 2013 14:41 Incognoto wrote: @IdiotSavant, that's a good base for your own build indeed. There are some things to change around though. Things to consider are going for a larger HDD, 1 or 2 TB for example as 500 Gb drives are expensive for the storage they give. The video card is also subject to change, the 7970 is a great card but I believe the R9 280X (which is a rebranded 7970) is cheaper at the moment (look into game bundles though, I could be wrong). The R9 280X is a rebranded HD7970 Ghz Edition so its better than your rock standard HD7970. A word of warning but as far as I know, you cannot add voltage to most third party HD7970s. Maybe you can with the Sapphire OC edition cards but the Gigabyte HD7970 is notorious for locking voltages to the point that some of their cards are not stable at stock voltages. Only reason to get the HD7970 at this point is if you want free games as the R9 280X should perform better and its actually cheaper in a lot of cases (ignoring stock clearances). | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
| ||
|
Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On November 07 2013 23:23 Incognoto wrote: Ah, ok, thanks; I won't touch voltage then. You misunderstood. There are limits set by the manufacturer in the graphics card's BIOS. He meant, on certain graphics cards, you can't increase voltage much because that limit is set very low in their BIOS. If you want to overclock, you have to be careful to not buy those graphics cards. I've seen people say, you don't have to worry (much) about increasing voltage because there should be a reasonable limit set by the manufacturer. You will not be allowed to use truly dangerous voltage, so you can't do anything wrong. | ||
|
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
If you bought a HD7970 *before* they released the HD7970 Ghz Edition, you can probably adjust the voltage. As you increase the core clock, you need to increase voltage to ensure stability. If you bought a HD7970 *after* they released the HD7970 Ghz Edition, this is a problem because basically all basic HD7970 are volt-locked. No one has really figured out how to circumvent this lock without modding the GPU (this voids your warranty, don't do it). You cannot increase the voltage so you can't overclock very much, if at all. With really good aftermarket heatsinks these days, its not really difficult to get good, cool, quiet, safe low effort overclocks. If you're looking to overclock, its generally better to choose the R9 280X rather than the HD7970 since you're guaranteed a card with voltage adjustment. You also get PowerTune Technology, though I'm not too familiar with how good it is at adding performance. | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
It's not OC edition. However in the post I linked, the author describes a procedure to remove the voltage limits from the drivers or registries. I assume that he's talking about one of those limitations, then. I'm not sure what one would achieve with higher voltage though. Does higher voltage, for example, equate to higher stable clock speeds? Or higher stably memory clock rates? Edit: article I linked was written on 4th of march 2013 so I'm assuming it's before the release of the Ghz edition. I bought mine about month ago, so I'm guessing the voltage is indeed locked. I won't be modding, don't worry. :p You cannot increase the voltage so you can't overclock very much, if at all. So I'm assuming that I was right in saying that higher voltage equates to higher clock speeds? Stability is a temperature issue? I mean it makes sense to me that higher temperatures will fry your GPU. Stability at higher clocks is due to the card itself then? Edit: Which would also imply that if I want to overclock a CPU, I would need a motherboard (and a PSU) that will be able to supply the higher voltage required to make the CPU run faster? That's why Z87 boards are required? | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20324 Posts
I'm not sure what one would achieve with higher voltage though. Does higher voltage, for example, equate to higher stable clock speeds? Yea, that's pretty much overclocking 101. Voltage is also the main reason stuff gets hotter when overclocked. With various settings you might have a CPU stable at 1.05vcore for 4ghz or 1.25vcore for 4.5ghz (same cpu) but higher clockspeeds require higher voltages to stabilize so you can't just stay at 1.05v and raise the clocks (if you could, your CPU temperature would hardly increase at all) Which would also imply that if I want to overclock a CPU, I would need a motherboard (and a PSU) that will be able to supply the higher voltage required to make the CPU run faster? That's why Z87 boards are required? Voltage and Power/Wattage are related, but not the same thing. I'm not gonna start with the water pipe analogies (ha) and it's much much less extreme for recent intel cpu's, but if you take a low end am3+ board for example that's designed to handle 95 or 125w tdp stock cpu's, and clock an 8350 to 5ghz pulling like 300 watts, it doesn't end too well. To add to above quote as well, the vast majority of power supplied from PSU's are 12v. It's converted from 12v to the voltage you want to use by VRM's, they are on the motherboard for stuff like RAM voltage and various CPU voltages (on haswell's case - mobo gives the VRIN to the integrated voltage regulator in the CPU which further cuts down voltages) - and they are also on stuff like GPU's, to cut the 12v input down to 1.2v or whatever the GPU is using, plus 1.6v(whatever) for VRAM on it. The PSU is kind of a big voltage regulator in of itself, taking wall power @ ~240v and cutting it to ~12v/5v/3.3v | ||
| ||
