EPTComputer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 539
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semantics
10040 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On September 05 2015 19:59 darkness wrote: Any idea if Windows 10 is sold as retail? I find only OEM versions. Yes http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-10-Home/productID.319937100 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/windows-10-home-windows/4302800.p?id=1219724360863&skuId=4302800 It just looks like OEM pricing because windows 10 is tied to machine now instead of cd-key(which actually makes it closer to OEM restrictions but customer service has always been a pushover). Also Microsoft is trying to push higher adoption. OEM is different though http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416892&cm_re=windows_10-_-32-416-892-_-Product On September 05 2015 08:15 mantequilla wrote: Is it a hardware issue or can it be fixed in the future by a driver update? "NVIDIA Will Fully Implement Async Compute Via Driver Support" http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-will-fully-implement-async-compute-via-driver-support.html It's pretty much a non issue considering actual DX12 games is at least a year away. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20335 Posts
It just looks like OEM pricing because windows 10 is tied to machine now instead of cd-key(which actually makes it closer to OEM restrictions but customer service has always been a pushover) They're being dicks with w10. It probably varies depending on who you get, but i have seen more than a few ridiculous convo's relating to it, particularly with one system changing motherboard or main OS drive | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6168 Posts
On September 07 2015 09:28 Cyro wrote: There's a bunch of dx12 games targetting holiday 2015 (1-3 months out, not 12) They're being dicks with w10. It probably varies depending on who you get, but i have seen more than a few ridiculous convo's relating to it, particularly with one system changing motherboard or main OS drive It's enough to almost make me rather they tie the OS license to a Microsoft account. Although that has its own issues. | ||
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Soft`Soap
Canada865 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:35 Blazinghand wrote: Since you're using a locked i7, you can probably go with a cheaper H97 mobo (which can't do overclocking) instead of the Z97 mobo. Depending on your needs it might be worth it to upgrade to a 1 gb HDD since they're not much more expensive than 500mb ones. You do not need an 850W PSU. You probably need like a 450W PSU since your CPU, MOBO, and GPU will each eat up about 100W. Maybe a bit more if I'm misunderstanding how much power a 960 eats. If you're planning to add a second GPU later a bigger PSU may be appropriate but I can't possibly imagine you needing an 850W PSU Are you sure you need an optical drive or can't cannibalize one from an old computer? Unless the one you have lying around is so old it's a PATA instead of SATA drive, you should be able to use that. Overall, it looks like you're slightly underspending on your Video card relative to your CPU. If your goal is maximum performance without getting bottlenecked on high-end games, typically you want to be spending ~30-50% more on your GPU than your CPU. A GTX 960 is a fine card for a cheaper setup but it's definitely a big bottleneck right now. I use a slightly cheaper CPU than you do (an unlocked haswell i5) with a $400 GPU and I think that balance was about right. In any case, it's up to you to determine what you want to do. If you're planning on adding a second GPU, you're probably better off instead having one good GPU unless you're planning on spending like $700+ on your GPU setup, in terms of price-performance. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it! So with your advice I looked at other mobos and found this http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-h97plus It seems to be very similar to the one I have but a bit smaller and seems to still match all my requirements, but did I overlook anything? It looks like I can hook up 3 monitors to the mobo and rely on my CPU for that, and I think I will be able to add a 2nd video card in there should I need to, but I'm also not the best at looking the specifications so I might've missed something lol As for the HDD, 500GB is already overkill for my needs haha. I have 2 other computers that still work fine and serve other purposes, so this one is strictly for day trading. I did feel that 850W was overkill for my build but I wasn't too sure. So assuming I get a 2nd video card and my final setup ends up having 6 monitors, how big of a PSU do you think I'll need? From what I understand, the only downside to having a 850W PSU and needing a 450W is wasting money upfront, is that correct? Or am I missing something? As for cannibalizing, I didn't even think of that, I might as well do that! Thanks | ||
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Soft`Soap
Canada865 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:45 Cyro wrote: 100 watts is about right for a 960 at full load. Maybe not ideal GPU choice though - some GPU's can output to 6 screens alone. It's not. Thanks for your response! Could you recommend a GPU that could handle 6 monitors? It would be ideal for me to build the computer once and then I would only have to worry about buying 3 more monitors when I want to upgrade my setup from 3 to 6. The less I have to open up the box in the future, the better! Thanks | ||
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Soft`Soap
Canada865 Posts
On September 07 2015 08:00 mantequilla wrote: I'd ramp up the ram to 16gb. Those kind of tasks eat up a lot of ram. And how will you support 8 monitors? Second gpu? Will that mobo support 2 gpu's? From what I understand RAM is easy to upgrade in the future. with the PC I'm using now, the program hasn't needed more than 1GB with 1 monitor, so my plan was to see how it goes with 3-6 and then buy more RAM as required. But would you suggest that I buy the additional RAM now? | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On September 07 2015 09:28 Cyro wrote: There's a bunch of dx12 games targetting holiday 2015 (1-3 months out, not 12) They're being dicks with w10. It probably varies depending on who you get, but i have seen more than a few ridiculous convo's relating to it, particularly with one system changing motherboard or main OS drive The only ones i know of is the DX12 patch on ark, which i'd hardly call that a DX12 grame, it's fair to say it's probably a bad port of DX12 given how many delays it's gone though. Fable Legends which i thought was getting DX12 after it's release so not really Q4 2015 and hitman 6 is suppose to use dx12 but no one reported on it outside of a german site so who knows what that means... It's unlikely well see much of DX12 till at least Q3 of 2016. They are being dicks with windows 10 that change makes it harder on retail customers although it makes since in terms of dealing with piracy. Although piracy will probably still occur though abuse of leaked volume license. | ||
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Craton
United States17291 Posts
On September 07 2015 03:33 Soft`Soap wrote: I will not play games on this so I'm not concerned about my performance on games, but I do want this to be able to handle up to 6 monitors in the near future (next 8 months). I'm told that the future trading platform I use will be multi threaded, if that changes anything lol. If you're going >4 AMD cards will actually support 6+ | ||
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Sovano
United States1503 Posts
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Sovano/saved/#view=ZHRzK8 | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On September 07 2015 11:48 Craton wrote: If you're going >4 cards then you're much better off using an AMD card. Nvidia consumer cards basically only support 4 monitors. You'll need to run the rest off of the CPU (i.e. motherboard/USB). AMD cards will actually support 6+ cards and have a number of available cards that have high numbers of DisplayPort connections. Similarly, a DisplayPort 1.4+ port can support as many as 4 monitors (in theory) off a single port and there are several DisplayPort hubs on the market that will run 3 off a port. The one I used a few years ago worked alright for the most part, though it had some issues like not recognizing all monitors when coming out of sleep mode. I think the newer ones are more robust. That's probably supposed to say "monitor" in place of "card" a couple times above, in case anyone was thrown off for more than a sec. Note that the monitors selected are DVI input, so multiple graphics cards will be needed if using 4+ monitors. AMD can do 6, sure, but isn't that with 4 of them via DisplayPort? It would be cheaper to grab a secondary low-end card than get DisplayPort input monitors. Don't forget video outputs from the integrated graphics, though. Also, when's the bulk of Skylake coming out? Seems like a big waste to upgrade to Haswell at this point. And really, there's no real reason to get a GTX 960 for a system not for gaming. On September 07 2015 12:16 Sovano wrote: I'm looking to upgrade to a 144 hz monitor, but my frame rates in DotA don't stay consistently at 144 FPS. Any idea what my bottleneck may be? http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Sovano/saved/#view=ZHRzK8 I have no idea what resources DotA really hits but you should be able to check CPU and GPU usage while running the game. If there's a CPU core at about 100% while performance drops, it's probably the CPU's fault. If not and GPU usage looks about maxed out, it's probably the GPU. If you lower most graphics settings and don't see an improvement in framerates, it's probably the CPU. Also, I'm guessing that you're probably not upgrading from a 120 Hz monitor; you don't need anything close to 144 fps consistently to benefit from a 144 Hz monitor over for example a 60 Hz monitor. There's a lot more benefit going from say 60 Hz to 100 Hz than 100 Hz to 144 Hz. And in the real world, frame times are not evenly spaced, so there's additional benefit to having a higher refresh rate than there would be if fps were consistent. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On September 07 2015 09:28 Cyro wrote: There's a bunch of dx12 games targetting holiday 2015 (1-3 months out, not 12) They're being dicks with w10. It probably varies depending on who you get, but i have seen more than a few ridiculous convo's relating to it, particularly with one system changing motherboard or main OS drive They were dicks about it with W8.1! My old W8.1 key which I had been using on my Haswell system was no longer valid on my skylake build. Apparently keys are associated to motherboard and changing that too many times will end up with an invalid key. I'm starting to wonder if the keys I bought weren't OEM (pretty sure they weren't), well I got them really cheap from reddit so either way it's OK, for now. | ||
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Firkraag8
Sweden1006 Posts
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Sovano
United States1503 Posts
On September 07 2015 15:11 Myrmidon wrote: I have no idea what resources DotA really hits but you should be able to check CPU and GPU usage while running the game. If there's a CPU core at about 100% while performance drops, it's probably the CPU's fault. If not and GPU usage looks about maxed out, it's probably the GPU. If you lower most graphics settings and don't see an improvement in framerates, it's probably the CPU. Also, I'm guessing that you're probably not upgrading from a 120 Hz monitor; you don't need anything close to 144 fps consistently to benefit from a 144 Hz monitor over for example a 60 Hz monitor. There's a lot more benefit going from say 60 Hz to 100 Hz than 100 Hz to 144 Hz. And in the real world, frame times are not evenly spaced, so there's additional benefit to having a higher refresh rate than there would be if fps were consistent. Seems like it's my CPU then. I'll try getting the monitor first and see how that plays it out. Any suggestions on what I should upgrade my CPU though if I'm still interested after that? I play LoL, DotA, SC2, HotS, and Hearthstone and I like to stream from time to time. I don't know how to go about picking one though and making sure my PSU can handle it. Budget would be under $250. | ||
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mantequilla
Turkey781 Posts
If you lower most graphics settings and don't see an improvement in framerates, it's probably the CPU Try this. Don't jump into conclusions. This guy has a stronger cpu than yours but his fps stays at 90ish while his gpu is %99 constantly: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20335 Posts
On September 07 2015 12:16 Sovano wrote: I'm looking to upgrade to a 144 hz monitor, but my frame rates in DotA don't stay consistently at 144 FPS. Any idea what my bottleneck may be? http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Sovano/saved/#view=ZHRzK8 few easy checks - if GPU is not near 100% load (or is dropping to lower clock speeds to save power) when FPS isn't up there, is not GPU if dropping resolution (like from 1080p to 720p for example, 2.25x drop) doesn't substantially increase FPS (it can easily double if you're GPU bound very hard) then you're not GPU bound very badly. In some cases where you're limited a lot by stuff like CPU, resolution change won't change FPS at all CPU is likely a limit for you, especially if you're lowering settings. That being said it's well worth to have higher refresh rate anyway - even if you're at 90fps a lot then it's a 1.5x improvement ----- Try this. Don't jump into conclusions. This guy has a stronger cpu than yours but his fps stays at 90ish while his gpu is %99 constantly: My FPS stays at 500 constantly and highly loads GPU in very very early game sc2 as well, that's just not relevant for performance later in the game. Dota also has increasing CPU demand and demand spikes during high action that starting a game alone on a map and playing for the first 5 minutes will not show. 750ti is also notably stronger than 750 - so weaker CPU (while the CPU in the video is shown highly loaded, though not limiting the very early game) and a bit stronger GPU at the same time. CPU would limit more than it did for that guy (which is still potentially holding back FPS later in the game and definiately holding back FPS if he were to drop settings for more FPS, lowering or keeping GPU load the same while loading the CPU further) -------- I'm starting to wonder if the keys I bought weren't OEM (pretty sure they weren't), well I got them really cheap from reddit so either way it's OK, for now. Some of the reddit keys were actually scams and got deactivated etc. There was drama over that a while back | ||
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Sovano
United States1503 Posts
I'll consider upgrading those parts in the future for DotA, but I'm well over 300 FPS when playing LoL so I'll just get the monitor for that in the meantime. It's too expensive for me to consider upgrading both when I should probably just save for even better parts when I graduate from college next year. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
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mantequilla
Turkey781 Posts
And there's a software called Eclipse which won't work fast on any hardware because it never uses any part %100, so won't hit a bottleneck ever. Being slow is it's nature. It waits between each line of its code. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20335 Posts
until it gets easy to fully feed such a monitor. That will never really be the case unless developers fall behind on implementing new graphical technologies or can't afford the time etc to build better assets. The graphical horsepower required to drive 1080p60 in 2007 is very very different to what's required to drive it in 2015 - devs pick a standard and then throw more graphical stuff until it doesn't run any better than that point on the newest GPU's. There's always stuff like tesselation and lighting which can be amped up to bring any GPU to its knees without that much required development time though it's hard to make good use of and improve graphical quality a lot with it (see the 980ti can't handle witcher 3 at 1080p60fps drama) The high refresh rate and 1440p-4k revolution is largely coming because many developers will stick to weaker hardware because of the consoles. If a bunch of games are being made to play at 1080p 30-60fps on midrange graphical hardware from 2012, in 2017 the guys buying higher end stuff can pretty much run those games however they want. There's a shortage of graphically demanding games recently i feel, it's way too easy for me to run modern stuff at triple digit FPS on near max settings without a flagship GPU. There's the attitude of "people will just play it at 1440p-4k or high refresh rate, increasing graphical demand by 1.75 - 4x" rather than actually making the game look better and apply more GPU load at conventional resolutions and refresh rates. If there was a game that could bring the HBM2 flagships next year to their knees at 40-50fps on 1080p i'm sure it would look beautiful  | ||
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