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On July 04 2015 00:55 Cyro wrote:
If die size is a huge problem, they could offer a CPU without iGPU at consumer price points. Over half of the 14nm quad core dies are dedicated to iGPU
I mean more that they haven't really done the consumer particularly wrong. They've scaled the chips to meet what is necessary. The iGPU and having more cores at higher clocks is better for most client workloads than more cores. That said, they're at the point where they could easily add in another two cores and fit it into the power budget and usual sub-100W TDP, and it's not like they absolutely need to keep under 200 mm^2 on the client side. They're just trying to keep profit margins (very) high, as Intel does. Nehalem/Lynnfield Core i7 on 45 nm were over 250 mm^2 and at similar or lower prices.
For power users, professional users, and others with money, they're expected to pay extra if they need extra, like extra cores and PCIe lanes.
I'm saying that the die sizes are not all that much different from before, and so are prices. The original comment made it sound like they're artificially capping what they give consumers while keeping up Xeon as the full-bore solution. In some sense, yes. But they could slice prices in half if they wanted to. Or give us different chip configs, say with no iGPU or more or less cores. All of these things cut into profits.
Intel spends huge sums of money on R&D, which is only possible with those profit margins. Their R&D costs over twice what AMD's yearly revenues are (CPU, APU, GPU, everything), never mind their earnings. A lot of that probably goes into projects that never really see the light of day, much of it into RealSense or whatever they're pushing now (as well as everything else looking into the future), but a decent amount is into next-gen fabs, chip technology, new architectures. That's really what drives performance, and this work improves every chip config.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
I think you're missing the basic reason they don't offer them at consumer price points - the market segment being targeted is the enterprise.
But why only offer those things to enterprise?
That said, they're at the point where they could easily add in another two cores and fit it into the power budget and usual sub-100W TDP
They could go 8-core broadwell without increasing the die size or exceeding an ~80w TDP easily enough at this point
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Likely because the non-enterprise market is tiny and the logistical and production costs to offer and support it make it not worthwhile.
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Do you mean a high-core-count SKU on the mainstream platform? People like us can buy the server/enterprise stuff if we really need it. And actually, all you need is a X99 board and you can run 18-core Xeons.
Bringing more cores to the mainstream platform would require extra effort making a new layout that would only be catering to a small market anyway. Price it too low and it cannibalizes some sales of the higher-end platform for not much of any reason, reducing profits. Price it too high and a buyer may as well go for the higher-end platform for the other features.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
I just feel kinda out of touch; i don't think i know anybody who wants low end graphics on their £140-£280 mainstream tier CPU instead of just getting 8 cores in the same die area and price that we have 4 at now
a basic iGPU is useful (for power saving, extra monitors, basic work for most users etc) but beyond that, going from 10% of die area to 60% dedicated to iGPU is something else entirely
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Well, nobody ever said they were doing enthusiasts and power users a special favor or catering to them (though Devil's Canyon was a moderate concession).
There are a number of things certain consumers wish they could have, but if you were Intel and trying to make money, what would you do differently?
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
With more pressure for performance, it would actually make more sense to offer a die that was not laptop focused below the x99+5820k price point
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keep in mind that there's probably a reason why Intel's top management is disbanding
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a friend of mine is handing out a 2 year old gtx titan at the same price of a gtx 960 now. He will give back the money if card gets broken in a short time. What do you say is it worth it?
Benchmarks say titan is about %30 stronger with 2x power consumption.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
You're looking at bad benchmarks then  It's way better than that, also with 6GB of VRAM.
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Hey everyone,
I'm looking to buy a new PC and have a few questions.
I already made a thread in /r/buildapc on Reddit and I'm posting here again to get a second opinion.
Therefore I'm going to use the same form for the post I used on Reddit.
What is your intended use for this build? The more details the better.
Gaming (mostly esports games like StarCraft 2 and CS:GO), programming
If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? (Screen resolution, FPS, game settings)
1920x1080, 120 FPS, low settings
[b]What is your budget (ballpark is okay)?**
~1200€ (~1300$)
Post a draft of your potential build here (specific parts please).
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.98 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($64.99 @ Mwave)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($95.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card ($334.99 @ B&H)
Case: Lian-Li PC-7HX ATX Mid Tower Case ($101.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair RM 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($99.99 @ Micro Center)
Total: $927.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-07-09 05:35 EDT-0400
I still have a SSD (Samsung 840) and a HDD from my old system and plan to use them both again.
Provide any additional details you wish below.
I often have multiple programs running simultaneously including but not limited to
[*] Chrome with ~10-15 tabs, including one or two twitch live streams
[*] iTunes
[*] TeamSpeak + Skype
[*] OneNote / Excel
[*] Steam / Battle.Net
[*] 1 game like StarCraft or CS:GO
[*] Tools in the background like f.lux, Dropbox, pushbullet, iCloud, etc.
[*] Second Monitor (if it matters)
1.) My question there is, would it be worth to get an i7 instead of an i5?
I read everywhere that an i7 does not matter if you only play games because most games don't make use of the extra cores / multithreading, but does it make a difference when running multiple programs simultaneously? Or do I only need more RAM for that?
2.) I currently have 8GB RAM and in the taskmanager it is most of the time at about 75% so I would like to get more.
Is it "viable" to use 12GB RAM or should I just go for 16GB? I'm asking because I didn't really see much builds with 12GB.
I'm also not sure which RAM (from which manufacturer) I should buy. Are there major differences I am not seeing?
3.) Last question, concerning the motherboard. There are so many different versions of the Gigabyte Z97 (see here) and I don't really see a difference, except for the memory type (for example the Gaming 3, Gaming 5 and Gaming 7 version). Maybe someone can help me out there.
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I have an i3 4160 and run pretty much the same stuff, except iTunes, and Opera instead of Chrome. Don't think that type of load can tickle an i5-4690K.
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Hi guys,
After living in Shanghai for almost 2 years I finally feel settled enough to invest in some stuff like a proper gaming rig. Those that live here know you can get anything you could possibly wish for (or a fake version of it) for pretty cheap around here. The problem is always that the quality of products might be lacking or in most cases, they are outright fakes. Me not being very computer tech savvy makes for an easy target I'm afraid.
My plan of approach is as such:
-I've asked around some people who have lived here longer than me as well as the IT guy from my company for a reliable source around here. I think I found one (or as close it as you are going to get here).
-I'm not quite sure about how powerful my rig should be, but I do know that I at least want to be able to play the Witcher 3 and as such quoted the recommended specs to my "computer guy to be". (specs spoilered) + Show Spoiler +OS: 64-bit Windows 7 or 64-bit Windows 8 (8.1). DirectX 11 is necessary to run the game.
Processor: Intel CPU Core i7 3770 3,4 GHz, AMD CPU AMD FX-8350 4 GHz
Graphics: Nvidia GPU GeForce GTX 770 or AMD GPU Radeon R9 290
RAM: 6GB
Disk space: 40 GB
The guy came back to me today and gave me the following quotation:
CPU: Intel i7 4770-3.5GHZ: 2049 CNY (299.05euro/329.96usd)
Mainboard: GIGABYTE Z97: 1399 CNY(204.18euro/225.29usd)
memory DDR3 8GB: 349 CNY (50.94euro/56.20usd)
HD 500GB: 280 CNY (40.87euro/45.09usd)
graphics card: GIGABYTE GV-n970 4GB: 2499 CNY (364.73euro/402.43usd)
power pack + chassis: 500 CNY (72.98euro/80.52usd)
display Samsung S22D300NY: 739 CNY (107.86euro/119.01usd)
wi-fi mini: 100 CNY (14.60euro/16.10usd)
Windows 7/8: "copy" (gotta love china)
TOTAL: 7915 CNY (1154.87euro/1274.60usd)
Prices are based on google currency and do not take into consideration local markets etc.
So I have two questions:
-Considering my goals where can I compromise?
-Are these reliable versions of brands?
-How badly am I being overcharged?
Answering the standard questions:
What is your budget?
I'm willing to go up to 900-1000 euros for good quality.
What is your monitor's native resolution?
Monitor also needs to be purchased.
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
So far: the witcher 3, shadows of mordor, SCII, dota 2, hearthstone
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
word, excel, powerpoint, music, watching movies
Do you intend to overclock?
wouldnt know how or why.
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
-
Do you need an operating system?
yes, i have absolutely nothing ATM
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
Yes a monitor and yes.
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
no.
What country will you be buying your parts in?
China, Shanghai
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
I prefer not to buy online.
Thanks guys let me know if you need more info!
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Z97 motherboard is completely overkill. You can't overclock a locked processor like the one you got. A 200 bucks motherboard is also completely overkill. I say get an h97 motherboard for the equivalent of 80-100 bucks
You can also cheap out on the processor and get i5-4690 because you don't do anything that requires hyperthreading
Your HD is overpriced. 1 Tb hdd should be about 50 usd. If you get the cheaper motherboard, you can use that spare money to buy an SSD like Samsung 850 evo or crucial mx100. 120 gb ssd is about 60 and 240 gb should be about 105. An ssd will significantly make your computer faster when you put your os on it as opposed to an hdd because of superior I/O and read/write speed.
Graphics card is about 70 usd too much. I suggest evga over gigabyte
Make sure you know what power supply you have. You don't want your computer gone because of a poor quality psu
Also, since it is mostly for gaming, if you shave off money off the processor, you can treat yourselves to a better monitor with 120 refresh rate. It will make game play smoother.
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If I buy a new PC and use the SSD from my old system on which Windows 7 is installed / activated, do I have to buy Windows again or can I use the old one?
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Thanks for the feedback IceHism, to summarize your feedback:
Saving:
-Motherboard can be downgraded to something more simple, reducing price by up to 100 bucks
-processor can be downgraded to i5-4690 saving another 100 bucks
-HDD should be cheaper
-Graphics card is overpriced by about 70 bucks
Lets be conservative and say this would save me 250 bucks.
Upgrade suggestion:
-Better screen
-SSD
I read somewhere that the Witcher 3 specifically makes use of the octo core idea (i7). Is that just false? or just to make the difference between 10.000 pixels per strand of hair or 10.001 pixels per strand of hair (as in minor difference)?
Thanks again, please don't hesitate to correct me if I got anything wrong!
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On July 10 2015 03:30 B.I.G. wrote:
Thanks for the feedback IceHism, to summarize your feedback:
Saving:
-Motherboard can be downgraded to something more simple, reducing price by up to 100 bucks
-processor can be downgraded to i5-4690 saving another 100 bucks
-HDD should be cheaper
-Graphics card is overpriced by about 70 bucks
Lets be conservative and say this would save me 250 bucks.
Upgrade suggestion:
-Better screen
-SSD
I read somewhere that the Witcher 3 specifically makes use of the octo core idea (i7). Is that just false? or just to make the difference between 10.000 pixels per strand of hair or 10.001 pixels per strand of hair (as in minor difference)?
Thanks again, please don't hesitate to correct me if I got anything wrong!
The motherboard isn't really more simple. The Z series is just made for overclocking which you don't seem to be interested in doing. Not to mention, even decent Z97 motherboards only cost up to about $130 so definitely getting overpriced here with a high end motherboard.
Also, make sure you know which Power supply unit you are getting, Price does not always mean better in this department.
If i could make a suggestion, the EVGA Supernova G2 is pretty good. If you want a bit cheaper, the Corsair CX series is decent for new builders. I see you are getting a chassis + psu combo? I would suggest to swap out the PSU or buy chassis only because the last chassis i saw that came with a psu had a diablotik psu (which is a nightmare)
Witcher 3 does make use of more logical + physical cores so the I7 would benefit the gameplay. If you can shell out the money, you can get the I7 and go for maximum quality. An I5 will run it perfectly fine though so if you want to save some money that is fine too since everything else you are doing do not benefit from hyperthreading (like virtualization, streaming, and video/photo editing and such)
Other than that, i don't see much problems with the rest. Though other people might have more to say.
Lastly, i like to say that i don't really know which parts are unavailable to buy in china so i'm assuming that you're buying from someone who gets the products internationally.
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power pack + chassis: 500 CNY (72.98euro/80.52usd)
is a problem I think. Learn the brand/model of the psu you are getting. PSU's in PSU+case combos are often not good quality.
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Thanks again for the feedback guys. With it I'm confident I'll get a much more suitable and better quality computer for hopefully a better price 
It leaves me still with an important question: how can I check to see if the hardware is genuine? Again I'm in China so if they are not completely ripping me off on selling price it's probably because parts are fake.. Any suggestions?
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My X99 motherboard finally uses quad channel, while it was dual channel previously. Not sure about performance as RAM can't be bottleneck but good to have I guess?
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EPT
