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5930 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Response Time Chat] +Response times are meaningless because just about every company lies about theirs. For instance, LG claims their 23" IPS monitors have 5ms GTG or something like that. The reality is that they're extremely slow (30ms rise + fall for GTG transition) and are actually slower than some VA monitors (i.e. very, very slow) in the market. This may also apply to gaming monitors. A lot of 2ms gaming monitors might theoretically might meet their 2ms GTG claim but have a very, very aggressive overdrive that produces a lot of reverse ghosting. Best case is on the left; worst case is on the right. This is just a simulation. I believe the de facto standard is to take some photos using 1/1000 second exposure. + Show Spoiler [large image] +Top is a 120hz TN monitor and the other three are PLS/IPS with overdrive. As you can see, with well applied overdrive IPS is honestly pretty good for what it is. Anyway, apparently there were different versions of the Samsung 226BW. Either way, as you can see in this review, its pretty good but its not mindblowing good. If you know which monitor you got, did you have any problems with its gaming performance?
The problem with most 2560x1440 IPS monitors would be the input lag. This is due to complex internal electronics. They're not gaming monitors but professional monitors. Some of them just happen to be fairly good at the whole gaming thing.
That being said, the Fujitsu P27T-6 may be a good option for a few reasons:
- Able to playback 24 FPS content (i.e. BluRay) flawlessly. The specs don't say but apparently it can do this.
- *Only* 16.3ms of input lag (~1 frame of lag).
- Panel response is fairly decent but it has some reverse ghosting.
I think the real question is how much input lag you can handle. Some people don't mind 30ms of input lag while some people can't stand more than 16ms. It varies from person to person. If possible, I would recommend purchasing from a store with good return policies, try it out for a day, and then return it if you don't like it.
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Asus ProArt PA238Q
1920x1080 LED backlit IPS monitor. Has: HDMI , VGA, DisplayPort, DVI, 3.5mm audio out, 4x downstream USB2.0 ports powered by one upstream USB2.0 port. Ergonomic features: backwards/forwards tilt, portrait/landscape orientation, height adjustment, and swivel. VESA mount compatible: Yes.
- Physically it is essentially the same as the Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM
- Slightly higher input lag (still very low)
- Overdrive (Asus calls it “Trace-Free”) is easily adjustable in the monitor menu, unlike the Dell. Value I found was best was 40 but your mileage may vary.
- Warranty is not as good as the Ultrasharp and it is more expensive
This is wrong. PA238Q has an 8-bit IPS panel and 10-bit color lookup table (a.k.a. FRC), so 8-bit + FRC.
All Dells U23xx series are 6-bit IPS panels, 8-bit color lookup tables, so 6-bit + FRC
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5930 Posts
I agree it has a 10 bit LUT. I'm still fairly sure its a 6 bit + FRC panel. Asus, on their website, claims 16.7 million colours instead of the 1.07 billion colour claim you see in all 8 bit + FRC monitors.
10 bit LUTs are cool for improving gradation but that's about it.
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i just bought Dell U2312HM. huge impact for buying was
a) good word of my favourite shop
b) mostly (only?) positive opinions on teamliquid.
and i must say i'm pretty impressed, especially with color and details. i used only crt so far (in fact i had 1 crt monitor for 15 years ??!!) and i'm prety shocked by the level of details and its not about resolutions i used 1280x1024 and now 1920x1080
so for photography (my hobby) its pretty big step forward, photoshop is much more a pleasure : bigger workspace// much better color//contrast.
however in terms of rapid sc2 gameplay i got mixed feelings. sure it looks great (But i dont care much about how it looks :D) the problem is im used to crt's which had 0 kind of any lag. and now i see a bit of ghosting (not that much to be annoying, and still i think its cause im used to crt's)
also the factory settings were kinda strange, since 75 brightness its waaaaaaaaaay to much, i heard its best to change it to 20. i use 25
any of you had same feelings about dropping brightness rapidly ?
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On May 24 2012 16:26 Womwomwom wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Response Time Chat] +Response times are meaningless because just about every company lies about theirs. For instance, LG claims their 23" IPS monitors have 5ms GTG or something like that. The reality is that they're extremely slow (30ms rise + fall for GTG transition) and are actually slower than some VA monitors (i.e. very, very slow) in the market. This may also apply to gaming monitors. A lot of 2ms gaming monitors might theoretically might meet their 2ms GTG claim but have a very, very aggressive overdrive that produces a lot of reverse ghosting. Best case is on the left; worst case is on the right. This is just a simulation. I believe the de facto standard is to take some photos using 1/1000 second exposure. + Show Spoiler [large image] +Top is a 120hz TN monitor and the other three are PLS/IPS with overdrive. As you can see, with well applied overdrive IPS is honestly pretty good for what it is. Anyway, apparently there were different versions of the Samsung 226BW. Either way, as you can see in this review, its pretty good but its not mindblowing good. If you know which monitor you got, did you have any problems with its gaming performance? The problem with most 2560x1440 IPS monitors would be the input lag. This is due to complex internal electronics. They're not gaming monitors but professional monitors. Some of them just happen to be fairly good at the whole gaming thing. That being said, the Fujitsu P27T-6 may be a good option for a few reasons: - Able to playback 24 FPS content (i.e. BluRay) flawlessly. The specs don't say but apparently it can do this. - *Only* 16.3ms of input lag (~1 frame of lag). - Panel response is fairly decent but it has some reverse ghosting. I think the real question is how much input lag you can handle. Some people don't mind 30ms of input lag while some people can't stand more than 16ms. It varies from person to person. If possible, I would recommend purchasing from a store with good return policies, try it out for a day, and then return it if you don't like it.
I just bought the EIZO FORIS FS2332 model, which is a full HD monitor. Does these have any input lag then? From what I could read at Prad's review there was no detectable input lag or ghosting, but it kind of makes me nervous.
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My monitor is often set at brightness levels below which the U2312HM can actually display (lower than the U2312HM's 0 brightness setting). Just for reference, many other monitors, including the U2412HM, can go down to luminance levels under half of the lowest setting on the U2312HM. Particularly for people who often work in darker environments than me, I don't know how they do it with the U2312HM. In a bright showroom floor or particularly bright office, the default may be okay though.
I agree about ghosting, particularly compared to CRT. It's usually not too much, or enough to be annoying, but about that level is not particularly distracting to me.
On May 29 2012 05:38 Stiluz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 16:26 Womwomwom wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Response Time Chat] +Response times are meaningless because just about every company lies about theirs. For instance, LG claims their 23" IPS monitors have 5ms GTG or something like that. The reality is that they're extremely slow (30ms rise + fall for GTG transition) and are actually slower than some VA monitors (i.e. very, very slow) in the market. This may also apply to gaming monitors. A lot of 2ms gaming monitors might theoretically might meet their 2ms GTG claim but have a very, very aggressive overdrive that produces a lot of reverse ghosting. Best case is on the left; worst case is on the right. This is just a simulation. I believe the de facto standard is to take some photos using 1/1000 second exposure. + Show Spoiler [large image] +Top is a 120hz TN monitor and the other three are PLS/IPS with overdrive. As you can see, with well applied overdrive IPS is honestly pretty good for what it is. Anyway, apparently there were different versions of the Samsung 226BW. Either way, as you can see in this review, its pretty good but its not mindblowing good. If you know which monitor you got, did you have any problems with its gaming performance? The problem with most 2560x1440 IPS monitors would be the input lag. This is due to complex internal electronics. They're not gaming monitors but professional monitors. Some of them just happen to be fairly good at the whole gaming thing. That being said, the Fujitsu P27T-6 may be a good option for a few reasons: - Able to playback 24 FPS content (i.e. BluRay) flawlessly. The specs don't say but apparently it can do this. - *Only* 16.3ms of input lag (~1 frame of lag). - Panel response is fairly decent but it has some reverse ghosting. I think the real question is how much input lag you can handle. Some people don't mind 30ms of input lag while some people can't stand more than 16ms. It varies from person to person. If possible, I would recommend purchasing from a store with good return policies, try it out for a day, and then return it if you don't like it. I just bought the EIZO FORIS FS2332 model, which is a full HD monitor. Does these have any input lag then? From what I could read at Prad's review there was no detectable input lag or ghosting, but it kind of makes me nervous.
Did we read the same thing (here)? That ghosting sure seems like it should be detectable, particularly if you're looking for it, and they even say it will probably not convince pro gamers. What they say can't be perceived is the latency, which is around half a frame in duration at 60 fps (not zero but not large).
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On May 29 2012 05:51 Myrmidon wrote:My monitor is often set at brightness levels below which the U2312HM can actually display (lower than the U2312HM's 0 brightness setting). Just for reference, many other monitors, including the U2412HM, can go down to luminance levels under half of the lowest setting on the U2312HM. Particularly for people who often work in darker environments than me, I don't know how they do it with the U2312HM. In a bright showroom floor or particularly bright office, the default may be okay though. I agree about ghosting, particularly compared to CRT. It's usually not too much, or enough to be annoying, but about that level is not particularly distracting to me. Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 05:38 Stiluz wrote:On May 24 2012 16:26 Womwomwom wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Response Time Chat] +Response times are meaningless because just about every company lies about theirs. For instance, LG claims their 23" IPS monitors have 5ms GTG or something like that. The reality is that they're extremely slow (30ms rise + fall for GTG transition) and are actually slower than some VA monitors (i.e. very, very slow) in the market. This may also apply to gaming monitors. A lot of 2ms gaming monitors might theoretically might meet their 2ms GTG claim but have a very, very aggressive overdrive that produces a lot of reverse ghosting. Best case is on the left; worst case is on the right. This is just a simulation. I believe the de facto standard is to take some photos using 1/1000 second exposure. + Show Spoiler [large image] +Top is a 120hz TN monitor and the other three are PLS/IPS with overdrive. As you can see, with well applied overdrive IPS is honestly pretty good for what it is. Anyway, apparently there were different versions of the Samsung 226BW. Either way, as you can see in this review, its pretty good but its not mindblowing good. If you know which monitor you got, did you have any problems with its gaming performance? The problem with most 2560x1440 IPS monitors would be the input lag. This is due to complex internal electronics. They're not gaming monitors but professional monitors. Some of them just happen to be fairly good at the whole gaming thing. That being said, the Fujitsu P27T-6 may be a good option for a few reasons: - Able to playback 24 FPS content (i.e. BluRay) flawlessly. The specs don't say but apparently it can do this. - *Only* 16.3ms of input lag (~1 frame of lag). - Panel response is fairly decent but it has some reverse ghosting. I think the real question is how much input lag you can handle. Some people don't mind 30ms of input lag while some people can't stand more than 16ms. It varies from person to person. If possible, I would recommend purchasing from a store with good return policies, try it out for a day, and then return it if you don't like it. I just bought the EIZO FORIS FS2332 model, which is a full HD monitor. Does these have any input lag then? From what I could read at Prad's review there was no detectable input lag or ghosting, but it kind of makes me nervous. Did we read the same thing ( here)? That ghosting sure seems like it should be detectable, particularly if you're looking for it, and they even say it will probably not convince pro gamers. What they say can't be perceived is the latency, which is around half a frame in duration at 60 fps (not zero but not large).
I read "Ghosting as well as corona effects completely fail to appear, but no peak values are attained at the image build-up and streaking in fast movements must be taken into account." as no ghosting, but slight motion blur or something along those lines. I'll have the monitor within a couple of days, so I guess I'll find out soon enough. All reviews I can find seem to recommend it strongly overall, so hopefully it's not a practical issue.
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5930 Posts
On May 29 2012 05:51 Myrmidon wrote:
My monitor is often set at brightness levels below which the U2312HM can actually display (lower than the U2312HM's 0 brightness setting). Just for reference, many other monitors, including the U2412HM, can go down to luminance levels under half of the lowest setting on the U2312HM. Particularly for people who often work in darker environments than me, I don't know how they do it with the U2312HM. In a bright showroom floor or particularly bright office, the default may be okay though.
Yeah I should have put a note about the U2312HM's rather high brightness in the OP. Done now.
On May 29 2012 06:18 Stiluz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 05:51 Myrmidon wrote:My monitor is often set at brightness levels below which the U2312HM can actually display (lower than the U2312HM's 0 brightness setting). Just for reference, many other monitors, including the U2412HM, can go down to luminance levels under half of the lowest setting on the U2312HM. Particularly for people who often work in darker environments than me, I don't know how they do it with the U2312HM. In a bright showroom floor or particularly bright office, the default may be okay though. I agree about ghosting, particularly compared to CRT. It's usually not too much, or enough to be annoying, but about that level is not particularly distracting to me. On May 29 2012 05:38 Stiluz wrote:On May 24 2012 16:26 Womwomwom wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Response Time Chat] +Response times are meaningless because just about every company lies about theirs. For instance, LG claims their 23" IPS monitors have 5ms GTG or something like that. The reality is that they're extremely slow (30ms rise + fall for GTG transition) and are actually slower than some VA monitors (i.e. very, very slow) in the market. This may also apply to gaming monitors. A lot of 2ms gaming monitors might theoretically might meet their 2ms GTG claim but have a very, very aggressive overdrive that produces a lot of reverse ghosting. Best case is on the left; worst case is on the right. This is just a simulation. I believe the de facto standard is to take some photos using 1/1000 second exposure. + Show Spoiler [large image] +Top is a 120hz TN monitor and the other three are PLS/IPS with overdrive. As you can see, with well applied overdrive IPS is honestly pretty good for what it is. Anyway, apparently there were different versions of the Samsung 226BW. Either way, as you can see in this review, its pretty good but its not mindblowing good. If you know which monitor you got, did you have any problems with its gaming performance? The problem with most 2560x1440 IPS monitors would be the input lag. This is due to complex internal electronics. They're not gaming monitors but professional monitors. Some of them just happen to be fairly good at the whole gaming thing. That being said, the Fujitsu P27T-6 may be a good option for a few reasons: - Able to playback 24 FPS content (i.e. BluRay) flawlessly. The specs don't say but apparently it can do this. - *Only* 16.3ms of input lag (~1 frame of lag). - Panel response is fairly decent but it has some reverse ghosting. I think the real question is how much input lag you can handle. Some people don't mind 30ms of input lag while some people can't stand more than 16ms. It varies from person to person. If possible, I would recommend purchasing from a store with good return policies, try it out for a day, and then return it if you don't like it. I just bought the EIZO FORIS FS2332 model, which is a full HD monitor. Does these have any input lag then? From what I could read at Prad's review there was no detectable input lag or ghosting, but it kind of makes me nervous. Did we read the same thing ( here)? That ghosting sure seems like it should be detectable, particularly if you're looking for it, and they even say it will probably not convince pro gamers. What they say can't be perceived is the latency, which is around half a frame in duration at 60 fps (not zero but not large). I read "Ghosting as well as corona effects completely fail to appear, but no peak values are attained at the image build-up and streaking in fast movements must be taken into account." as no ghosting, but slight motion blur or something along those lines. I'll have the monitor within a couple of days, so I guess I'll find out soon enough. All reviews I can find seem to recommend it strongly overall, so hopefully it's not a practical issue.
I actually bought the FS2332 since it costs around as much as a decent scaler box, has a nifty scaler for old school games, and uses a PLS panel instead of an IPS panel. Like all IPS/PLS monitors (heck 99% of TN monitors too), the ghosting is there but, subjectively, I think its a bit better than the 5ms TN monitors I've used. Of course, your mileage may vary.
Subjectively, input lag is non-existent. You don't have to worry about that. If you can feel the input lag and you're bothered by it, you need to go back to a CRT because I'm fairly sure nothing else is better.
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This is an awesome thread, well done sir. I will be using this when I buy my desktop this summer :D
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Time to buy 2 monitors that will be mostly used for D3.
Which of these is a better value? Are these "good enough" to play D3?
AOC I2353PH 23 - Inch Widescreen Ultra Slim IPS LED Monitor with Dual HDMI - Brushed Metal $190
Asus VH236H 23-Inch Full-HD LCD Monitor with Integrated Speakers $160
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5930 Posts
They're all good enough for some people. Hard so say, I don't know your tolerances.
Asus VH236H is far better for gaming - just set trace-free to 40 or 60. AOC i2353Fh has a problem since its overdrive is so weak that it might as well not be there. If you want a cheap eIPS that is pretty good for gaming, this will work fine - again, set trace-free to 40 or 60.
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On May 29 2012 11:40 Womwomwom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 05:51 Myrmidon wrote:
My monitor is often set at brightness levels below which the U2312HM can actually display (lower than the U2312HM's 0 brightness setting). Just for reference, many other monitors, including the U2412HM, can go down to luminance levels under half of the lowest setting on the U2312HM. Particularly for people who often work in darker environments than me, I don't know how they do it with the U2312HM. In a bright showroom floor or particularly bright office, the default may be okay though. Yeah I should have put a note about the U2312HM's rather high brightness in the OP. Done now. Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 06:18 Stiluz wrote:On May 29 2012 05:51 Myrmidon wrote:My monitor is often set at brightness levels below which the U2312HM can actually display (lower than the U2312HM's 0 brightness setting). Just for reference, many other monitors, including the U2412HM, can go down to luminance levels under half of the lowest setting on the U2312HM. Particularly for people who often work in darker environments than me, I don't know how they do it with the U2312HM. In a bright showroom floor or particularly bright office, the default may be okay though. I agree about ghosting, particularly compared to CRT. It's usually not too much, or enough to be annoying, but about that level is not particularly distracting to me. On May 29 2012 05:38 Stiluz wrote:On May 24 2012 16:26 Womwomwom wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Response Time Chat] +Response times are meaningless because just about every company lies about theirs. For instance, LG claims their 23" IPS monitors have 5ms GTG or something like that. The reality is that they're extremely slow (30ms rise + fall for GTG transition) and are actually slower than some VA monitors (i.e. very, very slow) in the market. This may also apply to gaming monitors. A lot of 2ms gaming monitors might theoretically might meet their 2ms GTG claim but have a very, very aggressive overdrive that produces a lot of reverse ghosting. Best case is on the left; worst case is on the right. This is just a simulation. I believe the de facto standard is to take some photos using 1/1000 second exposure. + Show Spoiler [large image] +Top is a 120hz TN monitor and the other three are PLS/IPS with overdrive. As you can see, with well applied overdrive IPS is honestly pretty good for what it is. Anyway, apparently there were different versions of the Samsung 226BW. Either way, as you can see in this review, its pretty good but its not mindblowing good. If you know which monitor you got, did you have any problems with its gaming performance? The problem with most 2560x1440 IPS monitors would be the input lag. This is due to complex internal electronics. They're not gaming monitors but professional monitors. Some of them just happen to be fairly good at the whole gaming thing. That being said, the Fujitsu P27T-6 may be a good option for a few reasons: - Able to playback 24 FPS content (i.e. BluRay) flawlessly. The specs don't say but apparently it can do this. - *Only* 16.3ms of input lag (~1 frame of lag). - Panel response is fairly decent but it has some reverse ghosting. I think the real question is how much input lag you can handle. Some people don't mind 30ms of input lag while some people can't stand more than 16ms. It varies from person to person. If possible, I would recommend purchasing from a store with good return policies, try it out for a day, and then return it if you don't like it. I just bought the EIZO FORIS FS2332 model, which is a full HD monitor. Does these have any input lag then? From what I could read at Prad's review there was no detectable input lag or ghosting, but it kind of makes me nervous. Did we read the same thing ( here)? That ghosting sure seems like it should be detectable, particularly if you're looking for it, and they even say it will probably not convince pro gamers. What they say can't be perceived is the latency, which is around half a frame in duration at 60 fps (not zero but not large). I read "Ghosting as well as corona effects completely fail to appear, but no peak values are attained at the image build-up and streaking in fast movements must be taken into account." as no ghosting, but slight motion blur or something along those lines. I'll have the monitor within a couple of days, so I guess I'll find out soon enough. All reviews I can find seem to recommend it strongly overall, so hopefully it's not a practical issue. I actually bought the FS2332 since it costs around as much as a decent scaler box, has a nifty scaler for old school games, and uses a PLS panel instead of an IPS panel. Like all IPS/PLS monitors (heck 99% of TN monitors too), the ghosting is there but, subjectively, I think its a bit better than the 5ms TN monitors I've used. Of course, your mileage may vary. Subjectively, input lag is non-existent. You don't have to worry about that. If you can feel the input lag and you're bothered by it, you need to go back to a CRT because I'm fairly sure nothing else is better.
Haha, okey, thanks :D Can't wait!
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U2312HM brightness isnt that big problem, i work with a text a lot, and even in dark enviroment brightness 20 is working perfect. and if someone is annoyed by that u can always use custom color and drop every color to 80-80-80 or even lower value, that will affect contrast a bit, but make screen much darker
anyway straight from the box settings 75brightness 75 contrast 100r100g100b is kinda bad. WAY to bright and too greenish. thats why i followed some revievs and drop it to 25/75/92//88//98 and its perfect all-rounder for movies,text, games.
and about ghosting its actually not that big deal, i think it has to do with the fact it is my first "pc lcd" and i needed a time to adapt, now its perfectly fine, maybe a little annoying with rapid action
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Just an update on the Eizo FS2332, absolutely amazing monitor! The image is so crisp and clear, and most of all the colors are really vibrant. No noticeable input lag or ghosting. I can provoke some very light overdrive halo in Tribes if I look for it, otherwise nothing. While it's not marked as gaming monitor, it's a joy to play on it due to the good picture and no noticable input lag. Starcraft 2 really shines on this, and Diablo 3/Tribes has impressed me as well. =)
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On May 29 2012 13:30 Womwomwom wrote:They're all good enough for some people. Hard so say, I don't know your tolerances. Asus VH236H is far better for gaming - just set trace-free to 40 or 60. AOC i2353Fh has a problem since its overdrive is so weak that it might as well not be there. If you want a cheap eIPS that is pretty good for gaming, this will work fine - again, set trace-free to 40 or 60.
I ordered 2 of the monitor you linked on Tuesday from Amazon and I should get them Thursday according to FedEx.
I will let you know my thoughts after a couple days of playing.
Thanks for the advice...
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On older monitors like VH236H the option is actually called "overdrive" and not "trace free", but yeah. Or at least it is on the one I saw before; maybe there's a new firmware to make the name consistent with more recent models. I didn't have a chance to test which was best though. Suffice to say, you can play around and see for yourself.
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5930 Posts
The Asus website claims it has "Trace Free Technology" so I'm going by that.
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I've read the op and still have no idea what I should buy. I'm looking for a 21" (or bigger, but that's not really important) monitor. mostly for SC2 (aka gaming) and also movies (but a proper gaming experience is a priority). If possible, I *don't* want the monitor to have in-built speakers.The catch is that the price cannot exceed $250. I own a GTX 470 SOC card, so full HD shouldn't be a problem. Could anyone please recommend something good?
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5930 Posts
Since you are in Poland, can you provide some stores or websites where you can buy monitors? It is a bit difficult to make a solid suggestion because the prices of computer hardware varies around the world. Prices in the United States, for instance, are a lot cheaper than the rest of the world.
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This is quite true, I'm sorry I forgot about it. Not to mention some of the monitors already mentioned in this thread are not available over here. 250 usd is about 850 pln.
http://www.ceneo.pl/Monitory
That is the biggest (I think) price comparison website in Poland. You should be able to find anything that's available in Poland here.
http://www.komputronik.pl/category/1251/Monitory_LCD.html
This is the biggest computer e-store in Poland. The prices are inflated a bit, though.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LV3oZ.png)
