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Since you often cant check mice and have to order them blind,
I wanted to make a small check for you.
This is only about the size, not about dpi etc.
Today my LMO arrived. My second in 10 years now.
So I want to show off the most famous for Starcraft:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/o149P.jpg)
jean Kespa pad to show the size of my right hand
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MZCoD.jpg)
claw grip Zowie mico
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qrIJJ.jpg)
claw grip LMO
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Elisb.jpg)
claw grip G1
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8m1ux.jpg)
If you use claw grip, the best in order:
1. Zowie
2. LMO
3. G1
I checked the smoothness of the mice on my pad too:
1. Zowie
2. LMO
3. G1
Overall is the Zowie mico the best mouse.
If you like the low dpi of the LMO - no problem since you can adjust it (red colour).
edited: changed "palm" to "claw"
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Actually, as I see, pictures of you gripping LMO and Zowie MiCo seems to be closer to fingertip grip - your palm nor where your wrist meets your palm touches the mouse. They are designed to be ideal for fingertip grip. The pic of you holding G1 seems to be closer to a claw grip - you hold your mouse with your wrist side of your palm and your fingers.
I'd say LMO's dpi is a bit too low for SC2 but ideal for SC1. G1 and Zowie are both small mice, but their grip feel are quite different (LMO and Zowie are similar), so you should try them before deciding. For me, G1 gives tons of wrist pain, so I just stuck with Zowie (and Deathadder BE). Also note that Zowie's clicks are a LOT harder than those of G1 or LMO.
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I messed up "clawgrip" and "palm" - sorry. I play "claw" only!
Thank you man - edited!
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After trying some mice, I'm still stuck with mice that don't really fit my hand. I have really small hand (F1~between F9 and F10). Tried Zowie MiCo but the hard clicks really gave me finger pains. G1/G100 gave me tons of wrist pains (due to shape of mouse or center of gravity?), and Deathadder was a bit too heavy and big for SC2.(Is nearly perfect for FPS though) Basically looking for a good, light fingertip/claw mouse for SC2. Now, I'm considering Sensei RAW or Team Scorpion Zealot, but willing to take recommendation of any kind.
1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip/claw. Depends on length of the mice. I can play SC2 with both fingertip and claw. (I also can use palm, but it's reserved for internet browsing and FPS)
2. What's your sensitivity?
between 750~1250. Can adjust within that boundaries.
3. What's your maximum budget?
Don't care as long as it's perfect fit for me.
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not really. Anything with left, right buttons with scroll wheel will do.
5. What games do you play?
SC2.
6. Do you mind angle snapping?
Yes!
7. Other relevant information:
With my thumb on F1 of typical keyboard, my litle finger can barely touch F10. Very small hands. I also prefer light mice. However, size is not much of an issue as long as it's light. (Up to 100g, or a bit more than my good old Salmosa will do). In fact, narrow mice such as G1 don't seem to fit me, although I haven't used many narrow-shaped mice yet.
Thanks!
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On January 15 2013 20:45 blue_blood wrote:
After trying some mice, I'm still stuck with mice that don't really fit my hand. I have really small hand (F1~between F9 and F10). Tried Zowie MiCo but the hard clicks really gave me finger pains. G1/G100 gave me tons of wrist pains (due to shape of mouse or center of gravity?), and Deathadder was a bit too heavy and big for SC2.(Is nearly perfect for FPS though) Basically looking for a good, light fingertip/claw mouse for SC2. Now, I'm considering Sensei RAW or Team Scorpion Zealot, but willing to take recommendation of any kind.
1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip/claw. Depends on length of the mice. I can play SC2 with both fingertip and claw. (I also can use palm, but it's reserved for internet browsing and FPS)
2. What's your sensitivity?
between 750~1250. Can adjust within that boundaries.
3. What's your maximum budget?
Don't care as long as it's perfect fit for me.
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not really. Anything with left, right buttons with scroll wheel will do.
5. What games do you play?
SC2.
6. Do you mind angle snapping?
Yes!
7. Other relevant information:
With my thumb on F1 of typical keyboard, my litle finger can barely touch F10. Very small hands. I also prefer light mice. However, size is not much of an issue as long as it's light. (Up to 100g, or a bit more than my good old Salmosa will do). In fact, narrow mice such as G1 don't seem to fit me, although I haven't used many narrow-shaped mice yet.
Thanks!
Have you tried the Razer Abyssus?
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On January 15 2013 20:45 blue_blood wrote:
After trying some mice, I'm still stuck with mice that don't really fit my hand. I have really small hand (F1~between F9 and F10). Tried Zowie MiCo but the hard clicks really gave me finger pains. G1/G100 gave me tons of wrist pains (due to shape of mouse or center of gravity?), and Deathadder was a bit too heavy and big for SC2.(Is nearly perfect for FPS though) Basically looking for a good, light fingertip/claw mouse for SC2. Now, I'm considering Sensei RAW or Team Scorpion Zealot, but willing to take recommendation of any kind.
1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip/claw. Depends on length of the mice. I can play SC2 with both fingertip and claw. (I also can use palm, but it's reserved for internet browsing and FPS)
2. What's your sensitivity?
between 750~1250. Can adjust within that boundaries.
3. What's your maximum budget?
Don't care as long as it's perfect fit for me.
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not really. Anything with left, right buttons with scroll wheel will do.
5. What games do you play?
SC2.
6. Do you mind angle snapping?
Yes!
7. Other relevant information:
With my thumb on F1 of typical keyboard, my litle finger can barely touch F10. Very small hands. I also prefer light mice. However, size is not much of an issue as long as it's light. (Up to 100g, or a bit more than my good old Salmosa will do). In fact, narrow mice such as G1 don't seem to fit me, although I haven't used many narrow-shaped mice yet.
Thanks!
I have a similar hand size. Men's S gloves, about 8" even handspan (measured from end of pinky to end of thumb with outstretched fingers). I also palm grip in FPS games and fingertip grip in everything else.
For FPS games, I have a Deathadder Black Edition with a cloth pad. Like you, I also found it a little too heavy and large for other purposes.
For RTS games (and any non-gaming computer activity), I use a Sensei RAW with a hard pad. The click is a little stiffer and more tactile than the Deathadder, but not as stiff as the Kinzu v2 Pro - the feel is actually my favorite among any mouse I've ever owned, although that's a personal preference thing. Its still a shade larger and heavier than I'd like for a fingertip grip, but on a hard pad the friction is so low that it doesn't bother me.
If you want an optical mouse/soft pad, no prediction or angle snapping, and also prefer ambidextrous mice when fingertip gripping, I'd look into the Razer Abyssus or Zowie AM. I haven't actually gotten a chance to play with either though, so I can't give you any opinions on those.
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I'm thinking of getting either a Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical (which supposedly has a "flawless" sensor) or a logitech g9x (and removing the shell). Is the g9x's sensor good? does it have hardware accel, angle snapping, or just an innacurate sensor etc? Thanks!
No one responded to my earlier post 
edit : also, any advice on surfaces? i want a good match
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
Can somebody help me figure out a new deathadder grip? Im using 1800dpi 4.5 sens (so ~810 true dpi) and previously used a kind-of fingertip grip (@450dpi) but im having problems with slipping, losing grip etc trying to increase speed and accuracy
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 17 2013 20:05 Cyro wrote:Can somebody help me figure out a new deathadder grip? Im using 1800dpi 4.5 sens (so ~810 true dpi) and previously used a kind-of fingertip grip (@450dpi) but im having problems with slipping, losing grip etc trying to increase speed and accuracy + Show Spoiler +
Place your hand in palm grip, then bend your fingers and afterwards move your palm away from the mouse until you feel comfortable. The steps i usually follow to find a good claw grip.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
^Wtf do i do with my fifth finger? (pinky)
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On January 17 2013 21:27 Cyro wrote:
^Wtf do i do with my fifth finger? (pinky)
My pinky always just drags along lying on the mouse pad 
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
On January 17 2013 23:01 Mowr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 21:27 Cyro wrote:
^Wtf do i do with my fifth finger? (pinky) My pinky always just drags along lying on the mouse pad
Not really trying for grip in this pic, but its incredibly awkward. Are my hands big or is this just how its designed to be? I cant palm grip because the top "third" of my fingers are not even touching the mouse
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 17 2013 23:01 Mowr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 21:27 Cyro wrote:
^Wtf do i do with my fifth finger? (pinky) My pinky always just drags along lying on the mouse pad
Get one of the Mionix Naos mice then. They have a pinky rest
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I got a Razer Abyssus for Christmas. It feels difficult to control, I can't explain exactly though. At work, I use a Dell stock mouse, previously I had an HP mouse at home I got at WalMart for $12. Both are claw, but I don't find the Abyssus grip to be unpleasant in any way. I set windows sensitivity to 6 and have gone higher and lower in the Razer software, but it either feels like it takes way too much hand movement or it is squirly. Running at 3600 dpi and the 1000 hz polling rate.
Maybe it is my Ikea mouse mat?
Does anyone have any suggestions?
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@ugly
Stick with the 1000hz polling rate. But 3600dpi is probably way too high for you. Most people find the mouse cursor unbearably fast at that DPI setting. Most non-gaming mouse are set to 400 or 800 dpi. I'd recommend setting your Abyssus to 800 DPI and trying to get used to that.
Ah I think I see the problem. The Abyssus has three possible settings: 450 dpi, 1800 dpi, and 3600 dpi. Probably what is happening is the 450 dpi seems too slow (requiring too much hand movement) and the 1800 dpi seems too fast (hard to control, squirly).
Basically, you have three options.
1) Set the mouse to 450 dpi and try to get used to big, sweeping arm (not hand) movements. You might need to get rid of your mouse pad if it's too small. If the non-gaming mice you're used to are 400-dpi mice, this should feel pretty normal though.
2) Set the mouse to 1800 dpi and try to get used to the increased speed. Make sure your hand stays relaxed & doesn't tense up trying to compensate for the relatively lack of precision! Tense hands lead to carpal tunnel. This might be the way to go - I set my mouse to 1600 dpi for awhile and was ok with it, though eventually I scaled back down to 800 dpi.
3) Set the mouse to 1800 dpi and under the windows mouse options set pointer speed to 4/11 (the default/optimal speed is 6/11, where windows doesn't futz with your mouse). That pointer speed will cause windows to modify the inputs your mouse is giving it, effectively halving dpi. So you'll end up at an effective 900 dpi setting. If you're used to 800 dpi non-gaming mouse, this should feel pretty natural. Edit: there may be a few games that disable windows mouse settings in favor of their own in-game sensitivity settings that'll cause a few hiccups when you load those games. I always have my windows settings at 6/11, so I couldn't tell you which titles to look out for.
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So, at work, I had my sensitivity at 11 for a few months to increase my coordination, at home it was I think 8 and that seemed fine for SC. (On the HP mouse) I dropped my work to 8 because I thought it might be making me worse while I adjust to home.
If I set it to 1800 dpi, it feels way too slow in game when I set a good speed for windows.
Even on 3600, the actual movement speed feels slow (at like a 4 in razer software) but the control is... Awkward. I can't explain why. Isnt the whole point of higher dpi to be more precise? (something I was hoping to improve with a gaming mouse) why have a gaming mouse and drop.the dpi all the way down?
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Higher DPI generally doesn't mean more precise, no. DPI means dots per inch: the number of pixels your pointer moves across the screen per inch of movement. Copied from the OP in this thread:
+ Show Spoiler +CPI/DPI
One of the most important technical specs to look at when buying a mouse is DPI/CPI, it essentially defines the sensitivity and speed of the sensor. The correct term for this aspect is actually CPI, or counts per inch. DPI, or dots per inch, is a term that refers to printing resolution which has been incorrectly associated with mice. DPI is now used by most mouse manufacturers to refer to the counts per inch of their sensors. Both terms refer to exactly the same thing and are often used interchangably..
Basically a higher DPI is going to give you faster cursor speed without sacrificing any precision. When you turn up the sensitivity in Windows or in games, this increases the speed of the cursor but reduces the accuracy of the mouse. Increasing the sensitivity this way causes Windows or the game to take the number of pixels the cursor should have moved and multiply it. This has the effect of making it so there are certain columns of pixels on the screen that the mouse cursor is unable to land on. For example if you multiply any whole number by two, you'll never get an odd number. Same principle applies for mouse sensitivity. The only way to change cursor speed without affecting the precision is to modify the DPI of the mouse; this is why most mice on the market include "on the fly" DPI switching, usually via a button on the top of the mouse that switches between several set DPIs. Other mice like the Steel Series Xai can be setup with several different custom"profiles" that the user can switch between. Most gamers tend to prefer lower DPI for first person shooter games and higher DPI for RTS and Moba games, though this is subject to personal preference.
Because DPI is based on pixles, monitor resolution also plays a role in the sensitivity of a mouse. A 1000DPI mouse will roughly move the cursor 1000 pixles across the screen when the mouse is moved one inch. On a monitor running 1024x768 resolution, moving the mouse 1 inch horizontally will essentially move the mouse from one side of the screen to the other. On a 1920x1080 monitor, the cursor would move only about halfway across when the mouse is moved 1 inch. This means the higher the resolution of the monitor, the slower the mouse cursor will move.
It should be noted however, that for most gamers using single monitors with resolutions of 1920x1080 or less, more than 2500 DPI is probably not required and would likely make most games difficult to control. Though if the setup includes mutiple high resolution monitors, or is setup with a very large resolution display vision; a mouse with a DPI higher than 2500 may be beneficial--though it still depends on the preferences of the user.
I highly recommend NOT using windows/in-game settings to mess with the control of the mouse. All of that makes the mouse less precise as it modifies the basic input from the mouse (sometimes with remainders) to get that effect.
Higher DPI allows faster mouse speeds without sacrificing precision, but you don't gain more precision than lower DPI settings. And generally slower DPI settings are easier for our brains to process, because if you want to move exactly x pixels, it's a lot easier for our imprecise hands to overshoot at higher DPI settings.
So basically, TURN OFF all windows/other mouse adjustments. Set pointer settings to 6/11 and try out the three Abyssus DPI settings. See which one you like. 1800 DPI will probably be good, if your work mouse is 800dpi and you had it set to double the speed through windows.
I don't know what Razer drivers do, but if there are 11 settings (copying windows), set it to 6. If not, just try to figure out how to turn off all that sensitivity adjustment. It just gets in the way of a smoothly functioning mouse.
Long story short, windows sensitivity at 11 or 8 is just a terrible idea, and won't help your 'coordination' because you'll have such an imprecise mouse it's virtually impossible use it well. The only point to windows settings higher than 6 is if you have a mouse with basically no DPI and you can't stand how slow the pointer moves - then you turn up sensitivity in order to SACRIFICE precision for speed.
P.S. If you have "enhanced precision" checked in your windows settings, uncheck that too. In the opinion of most gamers that option does the opposite of what it says.
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On January 15 2013 20:29 PiPaPoh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Since you often cant check mice and have to order them blind, I wanted to make a small check for you. This is only about the size, not about dpi etc. Today my LMO arrived. My second in 10 years now. So I want to show off the most famous for Starcraft: jean Kespa pad to show the size of my right hand claw grip Zowie mico claw grip LMO claw grip G1 If you use claw grip, the best in order: 1. Zowie 2. LMO 3. G1 I checked the smoothness of the mice on my pad too: 1. Zowie 2. LMO 3. G1 Overall is the Zowie mico the best mouse. If you like the low dpi of the LMO - no problem since you can adjust it (red colour). edited: changed "palm" to "claw"
Great photos. IMO, the LMO still feels more natural and comfortable than the Zowie MiCO for some reason. Sadly, the sensor is very old and I'm not comfortable using 400 dpi for SC2.
On another note: Are you sure that that non-glossy/rubberized Logi G1 is not fake(recognized by Logitech SetPoint?)? If yes, could you share where you got it from?
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On January 18 2013 01:43 U_G_L_Y wrote:
So, at work, I had my sensitivity at 11 for a few months to increase my coordination, at home it was I think 8 and that seemed fine for SC. (On the HP mouse) I dropped my work to 8 because I thought it might be making me worse while I adjust to home.
If I set it to 1800 dpi, it feels way too slow in game when I set a good speed for windows.
Even on 3600, the actual movement speed feels slow (at like a 4 in razer software) but the control is... Awkward. I can't explain why. Isnt the whole point of higher dpi to be more precise? (something I was hoping to improve with a gaming mouse) why have a gaming mouse and drop.the dpi all the way down?
Nope, it's just to be able to move your mouse pointer faster on a smaller space.
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On January 15 2013 20:29 PiPaPoh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Since you often cant check mice and have to order them blind, I wanted to make a small check for you. This is only about the size, not about dpi etc. Today my LMO arrived. My second in 10 years now. So I want to show off the most famous for Starcraft: jean Kespa pad to show the size of my right hand claw grip Zowie mico claw grip LMO claw grip G1 If you use claw grip, the best in order: 1. Zowie 2. LMO 3. G1 I checked the smoothness of the mice on my pad too: 1. Zowie 2. LMO 3. G1 Overall is the Zowie mico the best mouse. If you like the low dpi of the LMO - no problem since you can adjust it (red colour). edited: changed "palm" to "claw"
Great photos. IMO, the LMO still feels more natural and comfortable than the Zowie MiCO for some reason, probably because the sides are not completely flat. Sadly, the sensor is very old and I'm not comfortable using 400 dpi for SC2.
On another note: Are you sure that that non-glossy/rubberized Logi G1 is not fake(recognized by Logitech SetPoint?)? If yes, could you share where you got it from?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DABls.jpg)
