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On January 05 2013 19:01 ZeroReverse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 18:44 SleepTech wrote: So I have a $60 gift card for Best Buy from Christmas and I want to get a new mouse. I use palm grip and I'm not a 'hardcore' gamer. I basically play WoW, SC2 (hardly anymore) and a few other nontwitch games.
I'm thinking between deathadder or G400 or go with G300 and getting a nice mousepad.
What are your opinions? I've used a $10 mouse for about 5 years now so anything would be an upgrade.
I'm completely open to spending more then the $60 to get something like a sensei if that's something better. I am definitely an idra fan, but I know I would never get a "pros" use out of a $90 mouse.
I'm up for whatever though. I would recommend Roccat Savu. Its a great mouse with perfect tracking. Feels very comfortable and solid even tho its very light. The build quality is top notch and the button clicks are great. The scroll however is very stiff and the sides have rough texture, I personally like those features, but some people hate them. I have a DeathAdder for comparison and technically the Savu is superior excluding the sensors - they are evenly matched, but the savu dpi steps are native (not interpolated). Choose the one which you feel is more comfortable with.
I don't believe Best Buy sells those, or I did not see it on the site. My gift card is through best buy.
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On December 31 2012 20:57 r.Evo wrote:Allright TL I need some help with a new mousepad. The one I'm currently using is so old that I can't even find good links for it ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Revoltec-Lightpad-Precision-Green-Edition/dp/B000BLF6Q6 ). I'm currently happily using a CM Storm Inferno (Laser) Mouse and I'm going to add mouseskatez. I want a rather small pad (my current one is ~20cmx25cm and I don't need a bigger one) and I love as little friction as possible. I also hate cold surfaces so metal/glass is out of the question and I guess it comes down to hard plastic. I don't need anything superflat, my guess would be that my current one has ~6-7mm height and I'm perfectly comfortable with that. Any suggestions? Purchasable from amazon.de (usually has the same stock as .uk) preferred. Random question about mouseskatez: I remember that there are two basic kinds, one which are almost paperthin (and don't work for that long) and the other which is a bit thicker and seems to work for ages. Which one is which and how to tell the difference? Are these ones the latter? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Skatez-CM-Storm-Inferno-CS28060/dp/B0086T3ZZY ^ I'm still pretty lost regarding this, aren't there any suggestion where people are like CAN'T GO WRONG WITH THAT? ;;
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On January 05 2013 19:33 SleepTech wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 19:01 ZeroReverse wrote:On January 05 2013 18:44 SleepTech wrote: So I have a $60 gift card for Best Buy from Christmas and I want to get a new mouse. I use palm grip and I'm not a 'hardcore' gamer. I basically play WoW, SC2 (hardly anymore) and a few other nontwitch games.
I'm thinking between deathadder or G400 or go with G300 and getting a nice mousepad.
What are your opinions? I've used a $10 mouse for about 5 years now so anything would be an upgrade.
I'm completely open to spending more then the $60 to get something like a sensei if that's something better. I am definitely an idra fan, but I know I would never get a "pros" use out of a $90 mouse.
I'm up for whatever though. I would recommend Roccat Savu. Its a great mouse with perfect tracking. Feels very comfortable and solid even tho its very light. The build quality is top notch and the button clicks are great. The scroll however is very stiff and the sides have rough texture, I personally like those features, but some people hate them. I have a DeathAdder for comparison and technically the Savu is superior excluding the sensors - they are evenly matched, but the savu dpi steps are native (not interpolated). Choose the one which you feel is more comfortable with. I don't believe Best Buy sells those, or I did not see it on the site. My gift card is through best buy.
In that case I would go with Corsair M60 or M90 whichever you like more. I dont really trust Razer anymore, their mice are good performance wise but break too quickly from normal use.
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Ok guys I am a little lost, after 5 years my old g500 finally died on me. I need a new mouse so I am trying to decide what to get. I want to get a mouse that is similar to g500 in terms of grip but I would be willing to try another mouse. Price is not really an issue.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
On January 05 2013 19:01 ZeroReverse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 18:44 SleepTech wrote: So I have a $60 gift card for Best Buy from Christmas and I want to get a new mouse. I use palm grip and I'm not a 'hardcore' gamer. I basically play WoW, SC2 (hardly anymore) and a few other nontwitch games.
I'm thinking between deathadder or G400 or go with G300 and getting a nice mousepad.
What are your opinions? I've used a $10 mouse for about 5 years now so anything would be an upgrade.
I'm completely open to spending more then the $60 to get something like a sensei if that's something better. I am definitely an idra fan, but I know I would never get a "pros" use out of a $90 mouse.
I'm up for whatever though. I would recommend Roccat Savu. Its a great mouse with perfect tracking. Feels very comfortable and solid even tho its very light. The build quality is top notch and the button clicks are great. The scroll however is very stiff and the sides have rough texture, I personally like those features, but some people hate them. I have a DeathAdder for comparison and technically the Savu is superior excluding the sensors - they are evenly matched, but the savu dpi steps are native (not interpolated). Choose the one which you feel is more comfortable with.
Ive never heard of the Savu, are you sure it can be evenly matched with a performance king as big as deathadder?
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On January 06 2013 23:24 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 19:01 ZeroReverse wrote:On January 05 2013 18:44 SleepTech wrote: So I have a $60 gift card for Best Buy from Christmas and I want to get a new mouse. I use palm grip and I'm not a 'hardcore' gamer. I basically play WoW, SC2 (hardly anymore) and a few other nontwitch games.
I'm thinking between deathadder or G400 or go with G300 and getting a nice mousepad.
What are your opinions? I've used a $10 mouse for about 5 years now so anything would be an upgrade.
I'm completely open to spending more then the $60 to get something like a sensei if that's something better. I am definitely an idra fan, but I know I would never get a "pros" use out of a $90 mouse.
I'm up for whatever though. I would recommend Roccat Savu. Its a great mouse with perfect tracking. Feels very comfortable and solid even tho its very light. The build quality is top notch and the button clicks are great. The scroll however is very stiff and the sides have rough texture, I personally like those features, but some people hate them. I have a DeathAdder for comparison and technically the Savu is superior excluding the sensors - they are evenly matched, but the savu dpi steps are native (not interpolated). Choose the one which you feel is more comfortable with. Ive never heard of the Savu, are you sure it can be evenly matched with a performance king as big as deathadder?
Before trying the Savu, I too regarded the DA as the best mouse ever. Note I play every kind of game on high dpi and sensitivity and would not know anything about playing fps with low dpi/sense, thus lod and max malfunction speed are foreign problems to me. I can basically play anything on an area as big as a cd, without ever lifting the mouse.
For my needs booth sensors perform equally well. On top of that, all the button switches on the Savu are Omron, there is on board memory on which profiles and settings are stored. The driver does nothing else but write the settings to that memory and the internal cpu (32bit 72mhz and some integrated memory) does the rest. All the dpi steps are native. The mouse is built like a tank. I believe its superior to the DA in every technical aspect but the sensors which are on par. Now the form is another story, I like booth mice equally but this is up to the person.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
^It looks good, but id need to see tests etc before buying
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Here you go but i cant really draw straight lines lol T_T Roccat Savu
Note that these are drawn on old and very cheap cloth pad and the sensor may behave differently on another surface.
800dpi/1000hz default sense
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Pslizl.png)
1600dpi/1000hz default sense
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lOFk1l.png)
4000dpi/1000hz default sense
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gq5rgl.png)
4000dpi/1000hz -3 sense in the Roccat driver
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xNLS5l.png)
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
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I have always wondered - what do pictures like these mean? All I'm seeing are lines and a spiral. What should I be understanding from them?
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On January 08 2013 21:41 ShaPeLesS wrote: I have always wondered - what do pictures like these mean? All I'm seeing are lines and a spiral. What should I be understanding from them?
It shows the accuracy of the sensor on different DPI's and settings
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Just wanted to thank the people in this thread. Got the Zowie Mico, and had been playing with it since yesterday, perfect mouse for me. Light weight, really like how it clicks, simple and small. :D
Tomorrow i will pick up my noppoo choc mini brown, hope i like it as much as this mouse ;D
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On January 09 2013 00:15 Predje wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 21:41 ShaPeLesS wrote: I have always wondered - what do pictures like these mean? All I'm seeing are lines and a spiral. What should I be understanding from them? It shows the accuracy of the sensor on different DPI's and settings
Yeah, I got that, but how does it show it? How do a couple of lines and a spiral show accuracy?
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My 5 year old Razer Lachesis just died. I wanted another one but the Razer store doesn't list them anymore. =( I just liked how big it was. I have huge hands and the only other Razer mouse I can see that's a decent size is the 2013 Deathadder. Has anyone received one yet or know about it?
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On January 09 2013 02:35 ShaPeLesS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 00:15 Predje wrote:On January 08 2013 21:41 ShaPeLesS wrote: I have always wondered - what do pictures like these mean? All I'm seeing are lines and a spiral. What should I be understanding from them? It shows the accuracy of the sensor on different DPI's and settings Yeah, I got that, but how does it show it? How do a couple of lines and a spiral show accuracy?
Actually Predje is mostly incorrect. It's not really the accuracy of the sensor that's being displayed. What is being displayed is the presence (or lack thereof) of such "features" such as angle-snapping (prediction), acceleration, sensor jitter, that sort of thing.
The Savu doesn't really have any of these "features," which is considered a huge plus for most gamers, so the line tests are pretty uninteresting. And they're actually really hard to do correctly! So, anyway, I'm not a complete expert, but here's what the tests show.
Spiral, vertical, and horizontal lines: "angle-snapping," aka prediction If you get a relatively regular spiral, then there is no angle-snapping/prediction. If you get a "squarish" spiral (relatively flat in the parts that are mostly horizontal or mostly vertical, with corners marking the transition between the two, then there is angle-snapping/prediction.
Why does it work? Some mice have software (or hardware!) built into them that make it easier to draw perfectly straight lines. The mouse assumes you want to go directly from point a to point b when you move your mouse - but people generally cannot draw completely straight lines because of inherent inaccuracy, shaky hands, etc, so the mouse "smooths out" the information sent to the computer. Gamers generally dislike this because this "feature" can theoretically interfere with accuracy - the mouse might put the pointer a few pixels off where the gamer actually wanted it to go.
So look at the spirals above for the Savu. They're hand-drawn, sure, but there's no consistent flat lines at any particular part of the spiral, nor repeated angles at the places one would expect given angle-snapping/prediction.
The vertical & horizontal line tests work in a similar fashion. People can't generally draw perfectly straight lines. So if mouse "angle-snapping/prediction" is turned on, the lines will have long sections where they are perfectly straight, not straying to either side by even a pixel. That's not the case here, so the undesired "feature" is not present.
Diagonal lines: this can measure angle-snapping/prediction as well, though not as well. Instead, the test is good for exposing DPI settings that are "software-enhanced" rather than "native". Take for instance my Mionix Naos 3200. As much as I love it, the 3200 DPI setting is software-enhanced. What does this mean? Well the 800 & 1600 settings, which are native, can measure each pixel. If a certain distance moved translates to an 1600-pixel shift of the mouse pointed, the mouse can also measure half that distance plus a tiny bit for a 801-pixel shift. The software-enhanced 3200 DPI setting cannot be that precise, because it is just the 3200 DPI setting with the pixel shifts doubled. It can measure a 3200-pixel shift or a 1602-pixel shift, but it CANNOT measure a 1601 pixel shift. The upshot is that there are certain pixels on the screen it's next to impossible to click on. The same as if the mouse was set to 1600 DPI & windows mouse sensitivity was used to double the speed of the mouse.
The diagonal lines test helps show this. Zoom really far into any diagonal line and it looks like a staircase. "Software-enhanced" DPI or high windows settings increase the size of the "stairs". So if you have smooth-looking diagonal lines, there isn't software-enhanced DPI. Of course people's hands still aren't perfectly steady, so you basically want to look at the size of the aberrations. For example:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lI80F.jpg)
There are more "bumps" in the 1600 DPI lines only because my hands aren't very steady & it's a faster DPI setting (harder to be accurate/shaky hands problems). But the "bumps" aren't much larger than in the 800 DPI setting. The 3200 DPI bumps, however, are of a more extreme quality and even the smoother parts of the lines are more "blockish" than the smoother parts of the 800 & 1600 DPI lines.
The Savu advertises all its DPI settings as "true," and as having no angle-snapping/prediction or acceleration or anything like that. Unsurprisingly, the line drawings are really boring and tell us only there are no problems.
Does this make the Savu the end-all, be-all of gaming mice? Well, no. It's a very, very good implementation of the Avago 3090 sensor (the newer version of my own Mionix Naos 3200's Avago 3060 sensor). But shape of mouse is a big deal too. Many people don't like it. Many people (who like smaller mice that are also easy to lift off & reposition), seem to love it. Personally, I'd avoid the mouse on shape issues. But maybe it's right for you.
**Hopefully I got the technical details right in this post. It's possible (problable?) I made some mistakes.
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Hey everyone, I've been using the g9x for a while and need a good replacement, also the 9HD pad I've been using has been worn quite a bit, so I was wondering about any similiar pads that are better than it thx
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 09 2013 05:49 MisterFred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 02:35 ShaPeLesS wrote:On January 09 2013 00:15 Predje wrote:On January 08 2013 21:41 ShaPeLesS wrote: I have always wondered - what do pictures like these mean? All I'm seeing are lines and a spiral. What should I be understanding from them? It shows the accuracy of the sensor on different DPI's and settings Yeah, I got that, but how does it show it? How do a couple of lines and a spiral show accuracy? Actually Predje is mostly incorrect. It's not really the accuracy of the sensor that's being displayed. What is being displayed is the presence (or lack thereof) of such "features" such as angle-snapping (prediction), acceleration, sensor jitter, that sort of thing. The Savu doesn't really have any of these "features," which is considered a huge plus for most gamers, so the line tests are pretty uninteresting. And they're actually really hard to do correctly! So, anyway, I'm not a complete expert, but here's what the tests show. Spiral, vertical, and horizontal lines: "angle-snapping," aka prediction If you get a relatively regular spiral, then there is no angle-snapping/prediction. If you get a "squarish" spiral (relatively flat in the parts that are mostly horizontal or mostly vertical, with corners marking the transition between the two, then there is angle-snapping/prediction. Why does it work? Some mice have software (or hardware!) built into them that make it easier to draw perfectly straight lines. The mouse assumes you want to go directly from point a to point b when you move your mouse - but people generally cannot draw completely straight lines because of inherent inaccuracy, shaky hands, etc, so the mouse "smooths out" the information sent to the computer. Gamers generally dislike this because this "feature" can theoretically interfere with accuracy - the mouse might put the pointer a few pixels off where the gamer actually wanted it to go. So look at the spirals above for the Savu. They're hand-drawn, sure, but there's no consistent flat lines at any particular part of the spiral, nor repeated angles at the places one would expect given angle-snapping/prediction. The vertical & horizontal line tests work in a similar fashion. People can't generally draw perfectly straight lines. So if mouse "angle-snapping/prediction" is turned on, the lines will have long sections where they are perfectly straight, not straying to either side by even a pixel. That's not the case here, so the undesired "feature" is not present. Diagonal lines: this can measure angle-snapping/prediction as well, though not as well. Instead, the test is good for exposing DPI settings that are "software-enhanced" rather than "native". Take for instance my Mionix Naos 3200. As much as I love it, the 3200 DPI setting is software-enhanced. What does this mean? Well the 800 & 1600 settings, which are native, can measure each pixel. If a certain distance moved translates to an 1600-pixel shift of the mouse pointed, the mouse can also measure half that distance plus a tiny bit for a 801-pixel shift. The software-enhanced 3200 DPI setting cannot be that precise, because it is just the 3200 DPI setting with the pixel shifts doubled. It can measure a 3200-pixel shift or a 1602-pixel shift, but it CANNOT measure a 1601 pixel shift. The upshot is that there are certain pixels on the screen it's next to impossible to click on. The same as if the mouse was set to 1600 DPI & windows mouse sensitivity was used to double the speed of the mouse. The diagonal lines test helps show this. Zoom really far into any diagonal line and it looks like a staircase. "Software-enhanced" DPI or high windows settings increase the size of the "stairs". So if you have smooth-looking diagonal lines, there isn't software-enhanced DPI. Of course people's hands still aren't perfectly steady, so you basically want to look at the size of the aberrations. For example: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lI80F.jpg) There are more "bumps" in the 1600 DPI lines only because my hands aren't very steady & it's a faster DPI setting (harder to be accurate/shaky hands problems). But the "bumps" aren't much larger than in the 800 DPI setting. The 3200 DPI bumps, however, are of a more extreme quality and even the smoother parts of the lines are more "blockish" than the smoother parts of the 800 & 1600 DPI lines. The Savu advertises all its DPI settings as "true," and as having no angle-snapping/prediction or acceleration or anything like that. Unsurprisingly, the line drawings are really boring and tell us only there are no problems. Does this make the Savu the end-all, be-all of gaming mice? Well, no. It's a very, very good implementation of the Avago 3090 sensor (the newer version of my own Mionix Naos 3200's Avago 3060 sensor). But shape of mouse is a big deal too. Many people don't like it. Many people (who like smaller mice that are also easy to lift off & reposition), seem to love it. Personally, I'd avoid the mouse on shape issues. But maybe it's right for you. **Hopefully I got the technical details right in this post. It's possible (problable?) I made some mistakes.
Thank you! Your reply is more than I expected :D . I understood what the lines and spiral mean so I'd say you did a pretty good job explaining it!
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I had MX518 for 5 years i think. Bought Ozone Xenon today, and i really like it more than MX.
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On January 10 2013 22:53 ShaPeLesS wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 09 2013 05:49 MisterFred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 02:35 ShaPeLesS wrote:On January 09 2013 00:15 Predje wrote:On January 08 2013 21:41 ShaPeLesS wrote: I have always wondered - what do pictures like these mean? All I'm seeing are lines and a spiral. What should I be understanding from them? It shows the accuracy of the sensor on different DPI's and settings Yeah, I got that, but how does it show it? How do a couple of lines and a spiral show accuracy? Actually Predje is mostly incorrect. It's not really the accuracy of the sensor that's being displayed. What is being displayed is the presence (or lack thereof) of such "features" such as angle-snapping (prediction), acceleration, sensor jitter, that sort of thing. The Savu doesn't really have any of these "features," which is considered a huge plus for most gamers, so the line tests are pretty uninteresting. And they're actually really hard to do correctly! So, anyway, I'm not a complete expert, but here's what the tests show. Spiral, vertical, and horizontal lines: "angle-snapping," aka prediction If you get a relatively regular spiral, then there is no angle-snapping/prediction. If you get a "squarish" spiral (relatively flat in the parts that are mostly horizontal or mostly vertical, with corners marking the transition between the two, then there is angle-snapping/prediction. Why does it work? Some mice have software (or hardware!) built into them that make it easier to draw perfectly straight lines. The mouse assumes you want to go directly from point a to point b when you move your mouse - but people generally cannot draw completely straight lines because of inherent inaccuracy, shaky hands, etc, so the mouse "smooths out" the information sent to the computer. Gamers generally dislike this because this "feature" can theoretically interfere with accuracy - the mouse might put the pointer a few pixels off where the gamer actually wanted it to go. So look at the spirals above for the Savu. They're hand-drawn, sure, but there's no consistent flat lines at any particular part of the spiral, nor repeated angles at the places one would expect given angle-snapping/prediction. The vertical & horizontal line tests work in a similar fashion. People can't generally draw perfectly straight lines. So if mouse "angle-snapping/prediction" is turned on, the lines will have long sections where they are perfectly straight, not straying to either side by even a pixel. That's not the case here, so the undesired "feature" is not present. Diagonal lines: this can measure angle-snapping/prediction as well, though not as well. Instead, the test is good for exposing DPI settings that are "software-enhanced" rather than "native". Take for instance my Mionix Naos 3200. As much as I love it, the 3200 DPI setting is software-enhanced. What does this mean? Well the 800 & 1600 settings, which are native, can measure each pixel. If a certain distance moved translates to an 1600-pixel shift of the mouse pointed, the mouse can also measure half that distance plus a tiny bit for a 801-pixel shift. The software-enhanced 3200 DPI setting cannot be that precise, because it is just the 3200 DPI setting with the pixel shifts doubled. It can measure a 3200-pixel shift or a 1602-pixel shift, but it CANNOT measure a 1601 pixel shift. The upshot is that there are certain pixels on the screen it's next to impossible to click on. The same as if the mouse was set to 1600 DPI & windows mouse sensitivity was used to double the speed of the mouse. The diagonal lines test helps show this. Zoom really far into any diagonal line and it looks like a staircase. "Software-enhanced" DPI or high windows settings increase the size of the "stairs". So if you have smooth-looking diagonal lines, there isn't software-enhanced DPI. Of course people's hands still aren't perfectly steady, so you basically want to look at the size of the aberrations. For example: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lI80F.jpg) There are more "bumps" in the 1600 DPI lines only because my hands aren't very steady & it's a faster DPI setting (harder to be accurate/shaky hands problems). But the "bumps" aren't much larger than in the 800 DPI setting. The 3200 DPI bumps, however, are of a more extreme quality and even the smoother parts of the lines are more "blockish" than the smoother parts of the 800 & 1600 DPI lines. The Savu advertises all its DPI settings as "true," and as having no angle-snapping/prediction or acceleration or anything like that. Unsurprisingly, the line drawings are really boring and tell us only there are no problems. Does this make the Savu the end-all, be-all of gaming mice? Well, no. It's a very, very good implementation of the Avago 3090 sensor (the newer version of my own Mionix Naos 3200's Avago 3060 sensor). But shape of mouse is a big deal too. Many people don't like it. Many people (who like smaller mice that are also easy to lift off & reposition), seem to love it. Personally, I'd avoid the mouse on shape issues. But maybe it's right for you. **Hopefully I got the technical details right in this post. It's possible (problable?) I made some mistakes. Thank you! Your reply is more than I expected :D . I understood what the lines and spiral mean so I'd say you did a pretty good job explaining it! If you would like to know more » http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333648. But to re-iterate, these mspaint drawings are tests designed to show how a mouse tracks on a specific surface (and yes, your surface is important to note in these tests). The major things that are tested are general tracking quality at certain CPI steps and at each of the various polling rates, as well as things like ripple (commonly referred to as jitter, but incorrect) and angle snapping.
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Hi! I'm looking for a new mouse and a surface to go with it. I don't know anything about how different mice track on different types of surfaces so if you could recommend me a good match, that would be great! Also, are mouse bungees worth it? Do you notice less cord resistance? I'm considering getting one also.
1. What's your grip style? Fingertip, i think. More gripping with thumb then pointer fingers, though.
2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium atm but i'm not stuck to this, id like to experiment with different dpi/cpi settings more. I play on 1920x1080.
3. What's your maximum budget?
4. Do you want additional buttons? I would like 1-2 extras but not necessary.
5. What games do you play? Dota2.
6. Do you mind angle snapping? Yes.
7. Other relevant information: After reading everything about how most mice have some serious fuck up, i would mostly like as close to a "true" sensor as i can get. Without accel, prediction, random pixel skipping, etc. I have long fingers but not particularly big hands (palms?). I would prefer as light a mouse as possible. Also i like particularly clicky feeling and noise, but thats just an afterthought not required .
Thanks!
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