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On March 02 2012 17:03 Medrea wrote:I would reseat the CPU. But it looks like you might have fried 3 cores when playing with the voltage. Though I dont really think so. Maybe. SkyR? Double check with CPU-z. @ Melancholia I doubt we will be recommending 480 anything since that is old technology now. The performance value over the 7970 is on paper performance only since 2 GPU setups have microstuttering issues, you would have to go to 3X480 just to smooth it out and games that dont support this relegate you to a single 480 which is also bad news. You want single card setups and a Rosewill 550W can power two 7970's unless the OC is extremely large in which case it might be cutting it close. I dunno maybe its close anyway. Two 7950's should be easy though.
What's the real downside to it being old technology?
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On March 02 2012 17:53 Melancholia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:03 Medrea wrote:On March 02 2012 16:44 FiWiFaKi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Something tells me this isn't good? I would reseat the CPU. But it looks like you might have fried 3 cores when playing with the voltage. Though I dont really think so. Maybe. SkyR? Double check with CPU-z. @ Melancholia I doubt we will be recommending 480 anything since that is old technology now. The performance value over the 7970 is on paper performance only since 2 GPU setups have microstuttering issues, you would have to go to 3X480 just to smooth it out and games that dont support this relegate you to a single 480 which is also bad news. You want single card setups and a Rosewill 550W can power two 7970's unless the OC is extremely large in which case it might be cutting it close. I dunno maybe its close anyway. Two 7950's should be easy though. What's the real downside to it being old technology?
More power consumption, less support. Etc etc. 480 is a monstrous juice sucker.
The main problem is with SLI in general though. You don't want to be regulated to a single 480. Microstuttering is also a real problem.
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1.8 is way too high for Sandy Bridge. The fanatic overclockers tend to use 1.5 V or a little bit above that for "suicide runs", where they try to get the highest overclock/benchmark without caring for CPU longevity. Almost all 24/7 overclocks max out at 1.4 V, because above that most air-cooling will become insufficient rather quickly.
1.8 is far up in "don't go there" land and it's quite possible that the thing is fried.
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On March 02 2012 17:56 Rannasha wrote:
1.8 is way too high for Sandy Bridge. The fanatic overclockers tend to use 1.5 V or a little bit above that for "suicide runs", where they try to get the highest overclock/benchmark without caring for CPU longevity. Almost all 24/7 overclocks max out at 1.4 V, because above that most air-cooling will become insufficient rather quickly.
1.8 is far up in "don't go there" land and it's quite possible that the thing is fried.
I'm aware, purely accidental, I was trying to put it to 1.3 but me being stupid took over and that somehow happened...
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On March 02 2012 17:56 Rannasha wrote:
1.8 is way too high for Sandy Bridge. The fanatic overclockers tend to use 1.5 V or a little bit above that for "suicide runs", where they try to get the highest overclock/benchmark without caring for CPU longevity. Almost all 24/7 overclocks max out at 1.4 V, because above that most air-cooling will become insufficient rather quickly.
1.8 is far up in "don't go there" land and it's quite possible that the thing is fried.
He knows that already. He needs help assessing collateral damage to the rest of the system.
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On March 02 2012 17:55 Medrea wrote:
More power consumption, less support. Etc etc. 480 is a monstrous juice sucker.
The main problem is with SLI in general though. You don't want to be regulated to a single 480. Microstuttering is also a real problem. Thanks, this is what I was looking for. Just to be sure, the performance wouldn't be similar enough in a single card setup to be worth it considering the $300 in savings?
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I was talking to a friend on facebook, he works at bestbuy. He thinks that it's most likely that my Windows needs to be re-installed. And if it's not that, the only real options are RAM, mobo, or CPU. I wish it was the RAM that failed me, but I didn't change the voltage to it, so hopefully it's not that.
I do think it's the CPU, I'm just hoping the motherboard didn't get serious damage, and he also told me, Intel doesn't know how I fried my CPU, and he said I can just tell them that it failed under normal conditions, and maybe they'll replace it.
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You cant even get into windows.
ಠ_ಠ
No offense to your friend at best buy. But that sounds like Best buy advice.
I suppose you could try that (returning the chip) though I think Im obligated to say that neither me nor TL endorses it since it is kinda sorta fraud. Intel probably does have the resources to find out what fried your CPU but its a question of putting in the money.
On March 02 2012 17:59 Melancholia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:55 Medrea wrote:
More power consumption, less support. Etc etc. 480 is a monstrous juice sucker.
The main problem is with SLI in general though. You don't want to be regulated to a single 480. Microstuttering is also a real problem. Thanks, this is what I was looking for. Just to be sure, the performance wouldn't be similar enough in a single card setup to be worth it considering the $300 in savings?
Uh what are you asking? Will the performance gained by dual 480's be worth the troubles it brings up? My answer would be no.
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On March 02 2012 18:07 Medrea wrote:
You cant even get into windows.
ಠ_ಠ
No offense to your friend at best buy. But that sounds like Best buy advice.
I suppose you could try that (returning the chip) though I think Im obligated to say that neither me nor TL endorses it since it is kinda sorta fraud. Intel probably does have the resources to find out what fried your CPU but its a question of putting in the money.
He said high overclocks can lead to unstable software, that was the logic there. I mean that's really the only choice I really have I think to fix at myself.
I was just in windows installing BF3 though, so there had to be a point where something just stopped going right...
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Im going to need an explanation on how clock speed rewrites your OS or causes a hard drive to install software incorrectly.
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Well, the common way to stress-test high overclocks is to run some mathematical software that runs very CPU-intensive calculations and compares them with known results. Both Prime95 and LinPack (LinX / IntelBurnTest) do this. If the overclock is too high / voltage is too low / temperature is too high (due to voltage being too high for example), errors can occur which are a sign of an unstable overclock. So under the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) conditions these software errors could cause faulty data to be written to the disk.
But it's a bit of a stretch to assume that an otherwise fine Windows installation would become so corrupted that it doesn't even boot properly anymore.
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On March 02 2012 17:03 Melancholia wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 18 2012 10:00 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:40 Melancholia wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm back once more, this time looking for a high-end build for a friend.
What is your budget?
$2000-2500, with more available if there is a significant enough performance increase to warrant it
What is your resolution?
1920x1200, multiple monitor support would be useful. An additional monitor is probably the only part that might be added mid-cycle
What are you using it for?
To quote him: "games, 3D modelling, software engineering. In order of priority, RAM, GFX, CPU. I want to get a solid state primary drive, too, for speed."
From speaking with him the most taxing use will definitely be the 3D modelling, he does some significant work as a Masters level mechanical engineering student, as well as a large number of other projects. He's fairly insistent that it have 32 GBs of RAM for that purpose, though if you are certain that RAM wouldn't be the limiting factor then let me know.
What is your upgrade cycle?
3 years between machines, with no plans to upgrade mid-cycle
When do you plan on building it?
Now
Do you plan on overclocking?
My guess would be yes, when the task warrants it.
Do you need an Operating System?
No
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
If the usage requires it. It is unlikely that a second will be added at a later date, everything will be purchased at the start.
Where are you buying your parts from?
Newegg, other online sources if the price warrants it, and there is a Fry's nearby if they have any deals There are a billion ways you can allocate a $2500 budget. For $2500, I'd of course build on LGA2011 but you said processor is the last of his concerns so hex and octo cores may not be worth it. LGA1155 is limited to 32gb and quad cores while LGA2011 is expandable to 64gb and octo cores. Building on LGA1155 will of course not come close to $2500 without doing a multi-GPU configuration. For GPU, you basically want a 7970 for this budget but the good ones are extremely hard to find right now because everyone wants it. You can pre-order the ASUS HD7970 DirectCuII at Amazon for $580: http://www.amazon.com/DirectCU-1000MHz-Overclocked-Graphics-HD7970-DC2T-3GD5/dp/B00739TCH8/ If you can't wait than you can grab a Radeon HD7950 for $100 less. Plextor M3 128gb for $160 is a hot deal right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820249014You'd obviously want a nice case and power supply for such a build. I'd suggest the Antec P280 for $112: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=65170 and a Capstone 550: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182068 if you are doing a single GPU configuration. If you are looking for something modular than a Seasonic X is a nice option that's fully modular but is also significantly more expensive. For 32gb, you'd want / need 8gb modules, $208 with promo code until the 22nd: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231487You'd want a Noctua NH-D14, Phanteks PH-TC14, or a Thermalright Silverarrow. I'm back with some more questions, the purchase got a bit delayed and there are some options on a few things we didn't nail down. 1) The option to go nuts with RAM pretty much guarantees that we'll be going with an LGA2011 motherboard. It looks like there are three real options, cheapest to most expensive being i7-3820 (~$400), i7-3930k (~$700), and i7-3960x (~$1000). I'm assuming the 3820 can't overclock and would probably underperform for this build/budget, though since I don't do intensive modelling myself I wouldn't know if the CPU is not the bottleneck. The 3930k seems like a very attractive middle ground, is there any pressing reason to not take it over the 3960x? 2) Is there a particular motherboard/manufacturer that we should be looking at? 3) The friend that is building this is definitely considering running SLI, particularly noting the benchmark performance/price ration for the GTX 480. I know this would be a power hog and run quite hot, though it does seem that it would outperform the 7970 for somewhat cheaper. Another option may be a single GTX 480, being about $300 cheaper than the 7970 and benchmarking not that much behind it. What are the pros/cons that I'm missing here, and what would be the final advice? 4) We obviously missed the SSD sale, so a new SSD recommendation would be appreciated. Also, what are notable differences between different SSDs? In terms of performance, reliability, etc.? 5) If we did go with dual GTX 480s, or a single one, what would be the power supply changes? Two cards would presumably push us past 550W. 6) Considering that my friend has been more insistent on getting a lot of RAM in this system than he has been about any other component might this be the rare case where 1600 or higher frequency RAM (if that's the right terminology) is actually worth it? Or still stick with 1333? Looking at the prices for anything above 1600 I'm assuming we would be better off going for 64GB of 1333, but 1600 isn't that much more expensive.
Core i7 3820 is limited to 4.5GHz (for turbo, this isn't for all cores). The 3930k is just a 3960x with 3MB less cache and 100MHz slower though the latter doesn't matter since you'll be overclocking.
Which manufacturer you want to go with for the board is entirely dependent on your friend and yourself. Everyone has their preferences, likes, and dislikes. Though keep in mind if you are going with a 3820, some boards don't support this out of the box (since x79 and the initial LGA2011 processors came out in November while the 3820 came out in 2012). Since you want 64gb of memory, you'll want a board with 8 DIMM slots. The only one that comes to mind is the ASUS P9X79.
Recommended SSDs are Crucial M4, Plextor M3, Samsung 830, and Intel 520 (in order of worse to best, pricing also reflects this). Crucial M4 is very popular, it uses a Marvell controller and there hasn't been any major issues with it. Plextor M3 is quite new and it uses the same Marvell controller found in the M4 but it uses Toshiba toggle NAND instead of synchronous found in the M4. The Samsung 830 uses a Samsung branded controller and toggle NAND as well, no major issues with the controller. Intel 520 uses a Sandforce controller and uses an exclusive Intel firmware which fixes the dreaded Sandforce BSOD problem. Both Intel and Plextor offer a five year warranty whereas the other two offer three years. You can see the M4, 830, and 520 compared in Anand's article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5508/intel-ssd-520-review-cherryville-brings-reliability-to-sandforce/1 As much as I love Intel, I'm never buying a Sandforce.
Going with GTX 480 SLI will offer you better performance than a single 7970 but as you've mentioned, you'll end up with significantly more power consumption, noise, and heat. Going the SLI route will also mean you have to deal with SLI profiles. If the game doesn't support SLI or is poorly optimized for it, you get the performance of a single card. I'm not sure what benchmarks you looked at but a single GTX 480 is basically a GTX 570 and a GTX 570 falls significantly behind a 7970 in certain scenarios: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review
You can look at articles that explore the difference between the various memory speeds and timings and decide yourself whether it's worth it:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4503/sandy-bridge-memory-scaling-choosing-the-best-ddr3
http://techreport.com/articles.x/20377
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/sandy-bridge-ddr3.html
I'd stick to high-end units such as Seasonic Platinum and Corsair AX / Seasonic X for a high-end SLI build. Of course you can go non-modular (eg. Rosewill Capstone) as well if you are looking to save money.
But with eight modules, you'll most likely need to end up loosening the timings or lowering the speed if you don't initially get a 8x8gb kit. So if you buy a 1600MHz cas9 4x8gb kit, you may have to lower to cas10 for 8x8.
Passmark is one of the worse, if not the worse benchmarks available on the web.
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On March 02 2012 18:19 FiWiFaKi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 18:07 Medrea wrote:
You cant even get into windows.
ಠ_ಠ
No offense to your friend at best buy. But that sounds like Best buy advice.
I suppose you could try that (returning the chip) though I think Im obligated to say that neither me nor TL endorses it since it is kinda sorta fraud. Intel probably does have the resources to find out what fried your CPU but its a question of putting in the money. He said high overclocks can lead to unstable software, that was the logic there. I mean that's really the only choice I really have I think to fix at myself. I was just in windows installing BF3 though, so there had to be a point where something just stopped going right...
Overvolting a CPU means you should get ready to replace the CPU and motherboard. The power surge error is most likely as a result of the Anti Surge feature on ASUS boards, which can be disabled.
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Passmark is shit. Also, microstuttering is unlikely to be the most severe issue. It's fairly rare in this day and age that the microstutters are actually long enough to affect you in a PROPER multi-GPU rig, as even with stutters, the longest average frame time is ALMOST always shorter than frame times if you're vsynced/elsewise capped at a reasonable number. (For 60Hz displays.)
This being said, I wouldn't buy a 480 under ANY circumstances. It's a terrible card now. It's never really been good, but now it's horrendous. If you want a single card that's less powerful than the Radeon, buy a 448 core 560 Ti. OCing it, you'll be able to smoke most single 480s, and it will probably be quieter and cooler while doing it. You can still go SLI if you want, and if you go SLI, you'll get better performance than SLI 480, due to the power consumption and thermals.
To give you an idea how terrible the benchmark you're using is, it actually scores a GTX 465 above a GTX 460, even though the 465 is the single worst card of the entire 400 series lineup. It's hot and inefficient like a 480, performs more like a 450, and was originally priced like a 460. The actual silicon in a 460 was also nerfed right off the bat, but only because they didn't want a mid-range card to outperform their flagship. You can actually OC a 460 to 480 performance levels relatively easy.
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First post after 2 years of lurking.
So im trying to help a friend out, he is a student, hence the budget.
What is your budget?
£300 / $475
What is your resolution?
1680x1050
What are you using it for?
Purely gaming, nothing added, nothing taken away
What is your upgrade cycle?
3-4 years
When do you plan on building it?
April
Do you plan on overclocking?
Anything to squeeze the most out of it, so yes.
Do you need an Operating System?
Hellz no
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
At a £300 budget, if possible but probably not.
Where are you buying your parts from?
amazon/ebay Any reputable UK seller
Additional Comments:
Just need basic tower, not bothered with cosmetics at all. Just bare £300 POWER! (whatever power can come from £300)
Good luck, I hope that this will be a challenge and he will be happy  ))
Thanks!
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On March 03 2012 08:16 Scorre wrote:+ Show Spoiler +First post after 2 years of lurking. So im trying to help a friend out, he is a student, hence the budget. What is your budget? £300 / $475 What is your resolution? 1680x1050 What are you using it for? Purely gaming, nothing added, nothing taken away What is your upgrade cycle? 3-4 years When do you plan on building it? April Do you plan on overclocking? Anything to squeeze the most out of it, so yes. Do you need an Operating System? Hellz no Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? At a £300 budget, if possible but probably not. Where are you buying your parts from? amazon/ebay Any reputable UK seller Additional Comments: Just need basic tower, not bothered with cosmetics at all. Just bare £300 POWER! (whatever power can come from £300) Good luck, I hope that this will be a challenge and he will be happy )) Thanks!
Building April = buying in April? Pricing will probably change a bit by then...
As a challenge, here's what I managed to do with £300
+ Show Spoiler +
By the way, overclocking isn't what it used to be (squeezing out the most performance out of more inexpensive CPU's). Now only high-end chips (from Intel) are unlocked for overclocking, and AMD isn't worth it even if their low-end chips can be overclocked because they need to be OC'd just to be on par with similarly-priced Intel chips, and draw way more power as well.
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What is your budget?
$1000-$1250
What is your resolution?
1920-1080, looking for mostly maxed settings(not necessarily with AF and AA maxed too because that really isn't necessary)
What are you using it for?
Gaming, Streaming - SC2, D3, Skyrim, Mass Effect 3, etc..
What is your upgrade cycle?
about 3-4 years, depending on how it performs. Smaller upgrades would be fine during that time
When do you plan on building it?
Soon, probably next week or two.
Do you plan on overclocking?
Yes
Do you need an Operating System?
Nope.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No, I hear that a single gpu system currently runs better and has less issues.
Where are you buying your parts from?
amazon/newegg/Any reputable dealer(USA)
Thanks
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Disregard this post, misread the post I was replying to.
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On March 03 2012 10:37 Wabbit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 08:16 Scorre wrote:+ Show Spoiler +First post after 2 years of lurking. So im trying to help a friend out, he is a student, hence the budget. What is your budget? £300 / $475 What is your resolution? 1680x1050 What are you using it for? Purely gaming, nothing added, nothing taken away What is your upgrade cycle? 3-4 years When do you plan on building it? April Do you plan on overclocking? Anything to squeeze the most out of it, so yes. Do you need an Operating System? Hellz no Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? At a £300 budget, if possible but probably not. Where are you buying your parts from? amazon/ebay Any reputable UK seller Additional Comments: Just need basic tower, not bothered with cosmetics at all. Just bare £300 POWER! (whatever power can come from £300) Good luck, I hope that this will be a challenge and he will be happy )) Thanks! Building April = buying in April? Pricing will probably change a bit by then... As a challenge, here's what I managed to do with £300 + Show Spoiler +By the way, overclocking isn't what it used to be (squeezing out the most performance out of more inexpensive CPU's). Now only high-end chips (from Intel) are unlocked for overclocking, and AMD isn't worth it even if their low-end chips can be overclocked because they need to be OC'd just to be on par with similarly-priced Intel chips, and draw way more power as well.
Even at 1680x1050, 6770 doesn't really cut it for newer games. Even if you have a budget problem, I'd still consider waiting until you can add around 20£ extra for a gtx 460 or 6850 as it's going to make a significant difference.
And yeah, regarding overclocking, it's a bit stupid if you think about it. Most people who buy 2500k/2600k won't even benefit from overclocking, as they are already over the top for most games and applications (often other things caps first). People who have budget processors and need to overclock to lengthen the cycle often have locked multiplier, at least with intel.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/a70FY.png)
