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Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 682

Forum Index > Tech Support
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly.
chocopaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
2072 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-23 22:13:34
October 23 2011 22:12 GMT
#13621
On October 24 2011 07:02 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 06:59 Medrea wrote:
On October 24 2011 06:56 chocopaw wrote:
Regarding multicores: In the HotS techpanel Q&A at blizzcon somebody asked if they are looking towards triple- and quadcore optimization and the answer sounded pretty much like yes if I remember correctly. Would that be something to consider?


Nope, not even a little bit. SC2 is all about having a lot of units that need to constantly check there pathing and the like. This is ALL about the CPU. GPU is mostly meaningless once you hit a certain point, and we're already at that point.

Any decent single card setup will force the CPU to be the bottleneck.

^ missing the point


It might, I'm not sure. i5 2400 could become the recommended CPU but... it already is as long as the budget allows it.

btw having a dick measure contest with a mac is like having a speedrace with ladas


Alright, thanks!
I don't want to be annoying, but if you could tell me which version of the HD5770 I should choose that would be really nice. Would suck to simply take the cheapest and then it's trash, but neither do I want my friend to waste 20 bucks on something unnecessarily overclocked etc.
http://twitter.com/lechocopaw
CharlieBrownsc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada598 Posts
October 23 2011 22:18 GMT
#13622
On October 24 2011 07:12 chocopaw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 07:02 Shikyo wrote:
On October 24 2011 06:59 Medrea wrote:
On October 24 2011 06:56 chocopaw wrote:
Regarding multicores: In the HotS techpanel Q&A at blizzcon somebody asked if they are looking towards triple- and quadcore optimization and the answer sounded pretty much like yes if I remember correctly. Would that be something to consider?


Nope, not even a little bit. SC2 is all about having a lot of units that need to constantly check there pathing and the like. This is ALL about the CPU. GPU is mostly meaningless once you hit a certain point, and we're already at that point.

Any decent single card setup will force the CPU to be the bottleneck.

^ missing the point


It might, I'm not sure. i5 2400 could become the recommended CPU but... it already is as long as the budget allows it.

btw having a dick measure contest with a mac is like having a speedrace with ladas


Alright, thanks!
I don't want to be annoying, but if you could tell me which version of the HD5770 I should choose that would be really nice. Would suck to simply take the cheapest and then it's trash, but neither do I want my friend to waste 20 bucks on something unnecessarily overclocked etc.


Just get the cheapest

You can overclock the video card yourself. Just use MSI-afterburner, look at what other companies are setting the cards to, and set yours to that
SC2 ID: CharlieBrown.318, #1 bitbybit.Prime fan
CharlieBrownsc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada598 Posts
October 23 2011 22:22 GMT
#13623
On October 24 2011 06:59 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 06:56 chocopaw wrote:
Regarding multicores: In the HotS techpanel Q&A at blizzcon somebody asked if they are looking towards triple- and quadcore optimization and the answer sounded pretty much like yes if I remember correctly. Would that be something to consider?


Nope, not even a little bit. SC2 is all about having a lot of units that need to constantly check there pathing and the like. This is ALL about the CPU. GPU is mostly meaningless once you hit a certain point, and we're already at that point.

Any decent single card setup will force the CPU to be the bottleneck.


Med I think you might be misreading. I think he's asking if SC2 will use more than two CPU threads

Honestly, don't take anything Blizz speculates as fact, especially if it means you spending more money
SC2 ID: CharlieBrown.318, #1 bitbybit.Prime fan
chocopaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
2072 Posts
October 23 2011 22:56 GMT
#13624
On October 24 2011 07:18 CharlieBrownsc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 07:12 chocopaw wrote:
On October 24 2011 07:02 Shikyo wrote:
On October 24 2011 06:59 Medrea wrote:
On October 24 2011 06:56 chocopaw wrote:
Regarding multicores: In the HotS techpanel Q&A at blizzcon somebody asked if they are looking towards triple- and quadcore optimization and the answer sounded pretty much like yes if I remember correctly. Would that be something to consider?


Nope, not even a little bit. SC2 is all about having a lot of units that need to constantly check there pathing and the like. This is ALL about the CPU. GPU is mostly meaningless once you hit a certain point, and we're already at that point.

Any decent single card setup will force the CPU to be the bottleneck.

^ missing the point


It might, I'm not sure. i5 2400 could become the recommended CPU but... it already is as long as the budget allows it.

btw having a dick measure contest with a mac is like having a speedrace with ladas


Alright, thanks!
I don't want to be annoying, but if you could tell me which version of the HD5770 I should choose that would be really nice. Would suck to simply take the cheapest and then it's trash, but neither do I want my friend to waste 20 bucks on something unnecessarily overclocked etc.


Just get the cheapest

You can overclock the video card yourself. Just use MSI-afterburner, look at what other companies are setting the cards to, and set yours to that


Well there are other things to take into consideration, like how loud the card gets, right?
http://twitter.com/lechocopaw
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-23 23:52:09
October 23 2011 23:50 GMT
#13625
On October 24 2011 07:22 CharlieBrownsc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 06:59 Medrea wrote:
On October 24 2011 06:56 chocopaw wrote:
Regarding multicores: In the HotS techpanel Q&A at blizzcon somebody asked if they are looking towards triple- and quadcore optimization and the answer sounded pretty much like yes if I remember correctly. Would that be something to consider?


Nope, not even a little bit. SC2 is all about having a lot of units that need to constantly check there pathing and the like. This is ALL about the CPU. GPU is mostly meaningless once you hit a certain point, and we're already at that point.

Any decent single card setup will force the CPU to be the bottleneck.


Med I think you might be misreading. I think he's asking if SC2 will use more than two CPU threads

Honestly, don't take anything Blizz speculates as fact, especially if it means you spending more money


Your right I totally misread that. Whoops.

Now that I look at it. How on earth I drew the conclusion I did, is beyond me.

I guess it is from all the people looking to upgrade to ridiculous graphics cards over SC2.
twitch.tv/medrea
tabbott26
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom379 Posts
October 24 2011 00:41 GMT
#13626
Sorry to ask again, I went a bit freelance and tinkered, are there any things with this that you would change. The bright shit and liquid cooling is only because I'm insecure, and would like it!

http://www.cyberpowersystem.co.uk/saving/show.aspx?id=354044
EGHuK - EGIdra - EGDeMuslim - MVPGenius - Liquid'Sheth - ROOTKiwikaki
HaRuHi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1220 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 00:48:56
October 24 2011 00:44 GMT
#13627
Hello TL-community,
I was ask by my grandparents to help them upgrade their pc.
It's parts are 4 to 12 years old.
They looked into buying a premade cheap pc from the supermarket,
which I dehorted - because I believe it would be a waste of their money.

To not waste their money I looked into what they would need, and what not.
However since I am no longer up to date I hope you would take a look at my conclusions and denounce them if necessary, aswell as retrofit them reasonable.

The parts I am looking to upgrade are:
-motherboard
-CPU
-ram
-ssd

The budget:
400 euro

When:
Within 2 weeks

What my grandparents use their PC for:
-Video editing(basic windows-moviemaker/holiday vids etc)
-surfing
-playing cardgames

CPU/Motherboard:
I believe(pls correct if otherwise), that videoediting stresses mostly the cpu
and therefore conclude that an onboard graphiccard will be enough.
I also saw my friend running an AMD + Win7 + 8GB ram + onboard Nvidia,
watching 4 streams simultaniously while playing wow in 1400x1050.
Resolution used by my grandparents is around 1400x1050 aswell.

Concerns and Superstitions:
Intel>AMD : I remember seeing a friend playing morrowind on a P4 with only a Geforce MX400 on full settings while the game was relativly new, since then I always believed that Intel CPU are more willingly to pitch in when the GPU is weak,
and it will be weak.
However, AMD is cheaper and there is really no problem if rendering a video takes 36 instead of 24 minutes, also my AMD CPU never dissapointed (even though I personally prefer intel today).
The onboard Chip: I made countless(3) bad experiences with raedon/amd based chips. On the other hand, every single Nvidea Card I ever used, from Riva TNT to Geforce4200Ti to the 8600 series blew my mind and exceeded all my expectations.
I have one bad memory to a noname chip, because of lacking driver support for linux xD.
So if the onboardchip was to be from nvidea, even though just an onboard chip it would be appreciated.
As for AMD or Intel, I believe I would prefer AMD, as the SSD will cut into the budget too much to be able to pay for the, even though welcome, but little gains Intel I believe would bring.
->hidden crossrelated concern, see SSD.

ram:
Not much of a concern I think? 8GB, it is really cheap atm. Whatever ram will fit the mainboard choice.

SSD:
I never owned one. I read that they are AWESEOME, but tend to break in 5 instead of 10 years.
I want one for my Grandparents, mostly for Win7, because when it comes to Pcs, nothing is more frustrating for my
Grandma than waiting for the system to boot.
I don't use Win7 myself yet. How much GB does the SSD need to support it?
Is it reasoned or superstitious to not plan on using the SSD for storing videos/Pictures/Music/Pdf etc...
because I think it will fail or become slow, or have the aquivilant to what bad sectors are on an HDD,
within a few years when being writting on too much?
Also space/cost is a problem here. Maybe even if using an SSD exessiv does not impact it's durability much,
I guess a 500 GB SSD is not in the budget xD.
SO here comes the hidden concern for the motherboard:
Atm the HDDs are IDE, I guess they aren't compatible to modern motherboards?
Are there differences? Or would it be the most stressless thing to simply by an 1TB SATA for Data that is not Win7 and often used programms?

Purchase:
I have a local retailer I prefer:
+ Show Spoiler +

Warning, german language inc:
+ Show Spoiler +

http://www.je-computer.de

He gives me %, maybe not the cheapest price you find on
the internet, but reasonable + guarantee + easier to return if something is malfunctioning.

How I image the money distribution:

motherboard(Nvidea onboardchip): 100Euro
CPU(AMD): 100Euro
ram: 50Euro
SSD: 100Euro

What I don't think needs an upgrade:
Case- the case is old, but I don't expect there to be heat problems with an onboard chip.
PSU- rather weak, around 350 watt, but again, I don't think this build should needs much power.

The last 50 Euros I would use for a quite CPU cooler, or a SATA if needed.

Thoughts and explicit suggestions for the parts appreciated.

-Did I miss something maybe? Also: I don't know the specicfic hardware used in their PC, I will however see them later this week and take a look.

edit:bad spacing
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
October 24 2011 00:51 GMT
#13628
On October 24 2011 09:41 tabbott26 wrote:
Sorry to ask again, I went a bit freelance and tinkered, are there any things with this that you would change. The bright shit and liquid cooling is only because I'm insecure, and would like it!

http://www.cyberpowersystem.co.uk/saving/show.aspx?id=354044


Being insecure usually means wanting air cooling. I wouldn't be wanting liquid in my computer...

Buying a Phenom II, especially X6 is a waste of money. A core i5 offers better performance in both gaming and multi-threaded applications.

And I'm pretty sure http://www.overclockers.co.uk/ is better...

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-176-OE with the added GTX 570 and operating system ends up being less expensive and blows your Cyberpower away. I'm sure there are better ones if you browse around a bit.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
October 24 2011 00:52 GMT
#13629
Really doubt you need a SSD to be honest, those new computers can startup quite rapidly, I think your grandma would be amazed.

I'd suggest a celeron g530, h61, 4gb ram setup, that should total around 40+50+20€, that site sucks btw that you linked
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 01:04:48
October 24 2011 00:59 GMT
#13630
On October 24 2011 09:44 HaRuHi wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Hello TL-community,
I was ask by my grandparents to help them upgrade their pc.
It's parts are 4 to 12 years old.
They looked into buying a premade cheap pc from the supermarket,
which I dehorted - because I believe it would be a waste of their money.

To not waste their money I looked into what they would need, and what not.
However since I am no longer up to date I hope you would take a look at my conclusions and denounce them if necessary, aswell as retrofit them reasonable.

The parts I am looking to upgrade are:
-motherboard
-CPU
-ram
-ssd

The budget:
400 euro

When:
Within 2 weeks

What my grandparents use their PC for:
-Video editing(basic windows-moviemaker/holiday vids etc)
-surfing
-playing cardgames

CPU/Motherboard:
I believe(pls correct if otherwise), that videoediting stresses mostly the cpu
and therefore conclude that an onboard graphiccard will be enough.
I also saw my friend running an AMD + Win7 + 8GB ram + onboard Nvidia,
watching 4 streams simultaniously while playing wow in 1400x1050.
Resolution used by my grandparents is around 1400x1050 aswell.

Concerns and Superstitions:
Intel>AMD : I remember seeing a friend playing morrowind on a P4 with only a Geforce MX400 on full settings while the game was relativly new, since then I always believed that Intel CPU are more willingly to pitch in when the GPU is weak,
and it will be weak.
However, AMD is cheaper and there is really no problem if rendering a video takes 36 instead of 24 minutes, also my AMD CPU never dissapointed (even though I personally prefer intel today).
The onboard Chip: I made countless(3) bad experiences with raedon/amd based chips. On the other hand, every single Nvidea Card I ever used, from Riva TNT to Geforce4200Ti to the 8600 series blew my mind and exceeded all my expectations.
I have one bad memory to a noname chip, because of lacking driver support for linux xD.
So if the onboardchip was to be from nvidea, even though just an onboard chip it would be appreciated.
As for AMD or Intel, I believe I would prefer AMD, as the SSD will cut into the budget too much to be able to pay for the, even though welcome, but little gains Intel I believe would bring.
->hidden crossrelated concern, see SSD.

ram:
Not much of a concern I think? 8GB, it is really cheap atm. Whatever ram will fit the mainboard choice.

SSD:
I never owned one. I read that they are AWESEOME, but tend to break in 5 instead of 10 years.
I want one for my Grandparents, mostly for Win7, because when it comes to Pcs, nothing is more frustrating for my
Grandma than waiting for the system to boot.
I don't use Win7 myself yet. How much GB does the SSD need to support it?
Is it reasoned or superstitious to not plan on using the SSD for storing videos/Pictures/Music/Pdf etc...
because I think it will fail or become slow, or have the aquivilant to what bad sectors are on an HDD,
within a few years when being writting on too much?
Also space/cost is a problem here. Maybe even if using an SSD exessiv does not impact it's durability much,
I guess a 500 GB SSD is not in the budget xD.
SO here comes the hidden concern for the motherboard:
Atm the HDDs are IDE, I guess they aren't compatible to modern motherboards?
Are there differences? Or would it be the most stressless thing to simply by an 1TB SATA for Data that is not Win7 and often used programms?

Purchase:
I have a local retailer I prefer:
+ Show Spoiler +

Warning, german language inc:
+ Show Spoiler +

http://www.je-computer.de

He gives me %, maybe not the cheapest price you find on
the internet, but reasonable + guarantee + easier to return if something is malfunctioning.

How I image the money distribution:

motherboard(Nvidea onboardchip): 100Euro
CPU(AMD): 100Euro
ram: 50Euro
SSD: 100Euro

What I don't think needs an upgrade:
Case- the case is old, but I don't expect there to be heat problems with an onboard chip.
PSU- rather weak, around 350 watt, but again, I don't think this build should needs much power.

The last 50 Euros I would use for a quite CPU cooler, or a SATA if needed.

Thoughts and explicit suggestions for the parts appreciated.

-Did I miss something maybe? Also: I don't know the specicfic hardware used in their PC, I will however see them later this week and take a look.

edit:bad spacing


You're right. Intel is superior to AMD atm. AMD offers more cores for a lower price and Intel offers better performance per core at the same price, the latter is what most people care about since most tasks aren't multi-threaded. The newer Intel processors all have integrated graphics so you won't be using Nvidia graphics anymore if you do go with Intel unless you get a low-end discrete card.

The provided heatsink with the CPU is more than adequate for cooling, you should not be spending money on an aftermarket heatsink.

SSDs use flash memory which only has a limited amount of writes, they're small, and documents do not need the speed provided by them. Those are the main reasons why you do not store documents on the SSD. Once an SSD runs out of writes, you won't be able to write to it anymore but you'll still be able to read from it.

Windows 7 + SP1 is about 17gb so I would suggest a Crucial M4 64gb if you want to put the operating system and software on it. Intel 320 80GB carries a five year warranty but they carry a high premium since every other SSD comes with a three year warranty.

DDR3 memory is the standard these days.

Some motherboards still have IDE ports so you can look for one if you intend on keeping the old drives.
tabbott26
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom379 Posts
October 24 2011 01:00 GMT
#13631
On October 24 2011 09:51 skyR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 09:41 tabbott26 wrote:
Sorry to ask again, I went a bit freelance and tinkered, are there any things with this that you would change. The bright shit and liquid cooling is only because I'm insecure, and would like it!

http://www.cyberpowersystem.co.uk/saving/show.aspx?id=354044


Being insecure usually means wanting air cooling. I wouldn't be wanting liquid in my computer...

Buying a Phenom II, especially X6 is a waste of money. A core i5 offers better performance in both gaming and multi-threaded applications.

And I'm pretty sure http://www.overclockers.co.uk/ is better...

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-176-OE with the added GTX 570 and operating system ends up being less expensive and blows your Cyberpower away. I'm sure there are better ones if you browse around a bit.


Haha i see how that can be misinterpreted...

Thanks a lot, now's just the method of trying to find that extra 100-200 quid
EGHuK - EGIdra - EGDeMuslim - MVPGenius - Liquid'Sheth - ROOTKiwikaki
HaRuHi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1220 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 01:16:53
October 24 2011 01:15 GMT
#13632
@Shikyo

Yepp, the site is bad. It is a mcdonalds like buisness, where the shopowner buy licenses, however, I will go to them in person and not order over internet.
The thing with SSD is, my grandparent are willing to spent 400 on a premade system and have something like a GT430, that wont do anything for them and I am curious to see how good SSDs really are ;D. Thanks for the input, if I find out that I need a new PSU or something critical aswell I will think about cutting the SSD first!

@skyr

Thank you for your explanations!
So now I am ideally looking for an AMD supporting board with nvidia chip and possible IDE compability.
I will also wait with the heatsinkpart...the last AMD I used was something that had 700mhz xD...and the heatsinks included back than were not proficient!^^
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
October 24 2011 01:21 GMT
#13633
But it's got like 0 selection.

ordering from hardwareversand has like 4€ delivery fees
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
HaRuHi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1220 Posts
October 24 2011 01:51 GMT
#13634
The site is like just for the big company. The stores are rather individuell and they have a much bigger selection there and are also willing to order most things they don't have in store. Of course it would be cheaper to order over internet, but I HATE bureaucrazy and if hardware is malfunctioning I like to have someone to talk face to face to.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
October 24 2011 02:01 GMT
#13635
Well, how much does the cheapest H61, Celeron G530, and 4gb of ram cost in that place, then?
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
HaRuHi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1220 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 02:43:58
October 24 2011 02:26 GMT
#13636
ASRock H61M/US3 64,95 €
Intel i3-2100 114,90 € (The G530 is too old to be listed online, but I can ask when I go there tomorrow
edit: appaerently it is too new xD)

Together they are: 159,95 €

34,90 for the RAM, but ram is not listed online at all.

So everything alone together: 214,75
Everyting+ mainboard and processor together: 194,85

Keep in mind that I need to recheck the ram at the place itself and they usually give some % because they want to keep you as a costumer.
But for the heck of it, lets say 194,85€ with the i3-2100 instead of the G530.
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
October 24 2011 02:38 GMT
#13637
g530 isn't old. It's newer than the i3 2100...
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
October 24 2011 02:39 GMT
#13638
To be honest, it's not a total waste to get a i3-2100, so I wouldn't worry about it. It's faster, and you get hyperthreading and AVX support, which could be useful for video editing and multimedia stuff.

btw you are looking for a Celeron or Pentium G5xx, G6xx, or G8xx (socket 1155). G530 is not old at all. They were all released after the i3-2100, as lower-cost, lower-performing alternatives.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
October 24 2011 02:52 GMT
#13639
On October 24 2011 11:26 HaRuHi wrote:
ASRock H61M/US3 64,95 €
Intel i3-2100 114,90 € (The G530 is too old to be listed online, but I can ask when I go there tomorrow
edit: appaerently it is too new xD)

Together they are: 159,95 €

34,90 for the RAM, but ram is not listed online at all.

So everything alone together: 214,75
Everyting+ mainboard and processor together: 194,85

Keep in mind that I need to recheck the ram at the place itself and they usually give some % because they want to keep you as a costumer.
But for the heck of it, lets say 194,85€ with the i3-2100 instead of the G530.

2100 is 115 euros g530 is 39 euros on hardwareversand, ram also is 19€ on hardwareversand and mobo 46€ on hardwareversand so you're wasting a ton of money.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
gonzo056
Profile Joined October 2011
United States8 Posts
October 24 2011 02:54 GMT
#13640
Hey guys. Im considering building my first computer as my sony vaio laptop is currently 5 years old. Im looking to spend between 800-1000 and was thinking about building a desktop. I would be using this computer to play SC2 and Diablo 3 whenever it comes out, as well as surf the web and homework type things. I wanted something that would be able to play sc2 on high settings and Im still in the research phase as to what my exact build would be. I also do not own a moniter or OS so that would need to be apart of the 800-1000. I found the Asus G73SWRF-BST6 from bestbuy.com for 849.99. It is a refurbished model. I was wondering if this laptop would be plenty to fulfill my needs and be easier than building a desktop. Also do you recommend buying a refurbished model and why or why not. Thank you for your time
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