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On January 29 2013 00:25 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Anyone else have any input on a DECENT mobo that wont gimp me, but doesnt kill the wallet? Not looking to overclock or anything. Prefer from microcenter. for a i5-3570k
I would go for a Gigabyte UD3H - $145 down from $185.
Its a great board if you don't plan on overclocking, but it only has 2x sata3 ports. If you need more sata3 ports you could go for the ASRock Extreme4 or the MSI MSI GD65
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On January 29 2013 00:51 Pusekatten wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:25 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Anyone else have any input on a DECENT mobo that wont gimp me, but doesnt kill the wallet? Not looking to overclock or anything. Prefer from microcenter. for a i5-3570k I would go for a Gigabyte UD3H - $145 down from $185. Its a great board if you don't plan on overclocking, but it only has 2x sata3 ports. If you need more sata3 ports you could go for the ASRock Extreme4 or the MSI MSI GD65
Please outline the features on this board you think are worth a 50% increase in price ($50) over Myrmidon's recommendation for someone who is not overclocking. Specific features, and only those not also present on Myrmidon's recommended board, please.
@Malpractice
If you're not going to overclock, just get this board:
http://www.microcenter.com/product/406650/B75MA-E33_LGA_1155_B75_mATX_Intel_Motherboard
and save another $40 by not getting the K-series processor:
http://www.microcenter.com/product/400664/Core_i5_3470_32GHz_LGA_1155_Boxed_Processor
It's downright silly to pay for the ability to overclock if you're not going to use it. It's like paying extra for a sunroof on your car then keeping it permanently covered. As for motherboards: you don't get better CPU performance by buying a more expensive motherboard. You get more I/O features (more places to plug hard drives in, for example), perhaps better overclockability. But for general CPU performance at stock settings, your average cheapass $50 mobo will perform the same as the top-of-the-line $400 mobo.
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On January 29 2013 00:51 Pusekatten wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:25 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Anyone else have any input on a DECENT mobo that wont gimp me, but doesnt kill the wallet? Not looking to overclock or anything. Prefer from microcenter. for a i5-3570k I would go for a Gigabyte UD3H - $145 down from $185. Its a great board if you don't plan on overclocking, but it only has 2x sata3 ports. If you need more sata3 ports you could go for the ASRock Extreme4 or the MSI MSI GD65
I'm noticing a trend, where you think 6Gb/s sata is some sort of mystical thing everyone needs a lot of. It's actually kind of useless unless they plan to run a lot of SSDs.
Running lots of SSDs will, generally "kill the wallet", which puts it out of what Malpractice wants.
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On January 29 2013 00:54 MisterFred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:51 Pusekatten wrote:On January 29 2013 00:25 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Anyone else have any input on a DECENT mobo that wont gimp me, but doesnt kill the wallet? Not looking to overclock or anything. Prefer from microcenter. for a i5-3570k I would go for a Gigabyte UD3H - $145 down from $185. Its a great board if you don't plan on overclocking, but it only has 2x sata3 ports. If you need more sata3 ports you could go for the ASRock Extreme4 or the MSI MSI GD65 Please outline the features on this board you think are worth a 50% increase in price ($50) over Myrmidon's recommendation for someone who is not overclocking. Specific features, and only those not also present on Myrmidon's recommended board, please.
I know the ASRock Pro3 is a good cheap board, but I really don't like to recommend to anyone aboard under $125, unless they are going for a super budget build. This is only beacuse I have tried to do budget builds, and my experience with those boards are not the best. I also didn't want to recommend it when he had already done it.
But to answer the question, From then I/O panel you get digital audio, DisplayPort, DVI, 4 more USB 3.0 (total of 6). You get 90 degree angled sata ports (verry annoying for some if they are not). It has a slot for Intel SSD caching. It has a start button on the board (I cant live without them myself). It has a dual BIOS, with a nice and easy accessible clear CMOS button aswell.
However I will give the Pro3 some love because it supports 2800mhz memory out of the box.
I'm noticing a trend, where you think 6Gb/s sata is some sort of mystical thing everyone needs a lot of. It's actually kind of useless unless they plan to run a lot of SSDs.
Running lots of SSDs will, generally "kill the wallet", which puts it out of what Malpractice wants.
It was simply some alternatives if he needed them, since he didn't really give us much information outside off what CPU he would use.
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On January 29 2013 01:21 Pusekatten wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:54 MisterFred wrote:On January 29 2013 00:51 Pusekatten wrote:On January 29 2013 00:25 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Anyone else have any input on a DECENT mobo that wont gimp me, but doesnt kill the wallet? Not looking to overclock or anything. Prefer from microcenter. for a i5-3570k I would go for a Gigabyte UD3H - $145 down from $185. Its a great board if you don't plan on overclocking, but it only has 2x sata3 ports. If you need more sata3 ports you could go for the ASRock Extreme4 or the MSI MSI GD65 Please outline the features on this board you think are worth a 50% increase in price ($50) over Myrmidon's recommendation for someone who is not overclocking. Specific features, and only those not also present on Myrmidon's recommended board, please. I know the ASRock Pro3 is a good cheap board, but I really don't like to recommend to anyone aboard under $125, unless they are going for a super budget build. This is only beacuse I have tried to do budget builds, and my experience with those boards are not the best. I also didn't want to recommend it when he had already done it. But to answer the question, From then I/O panel you get digital audio, DisplayPort, DVI, 4 more USB 3.0 (total of 6). You get 90 degree angled sata ports (verry annoying for some if they are not). It has a slot for Intel SSD caching. It has a start button on the board (I cant live without them myself). It has a dual BIOS, with a nice and easy accessible clear CMOS button aswell. However I will give the Pro3 some love because it supports 2800mhz memory out of the box. Show nested quote +
I'm noticing a trend, where you think 6Gb/s sata is some sort of mystical thing everyone needs a lot of. It's actually kind of useless unless they plan to run a lot of SSDs.
Running lots of SSDs will, generally "kill the wallet", which puts it out of what Malpractice wants.
It was simply some alternatives if he needed them, since he didn't really give us much information outside off what CPU he would use.
No, like I said, there's a trend starting to emerge.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 28 2013 08:24 Pusekatten wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 01:24 Rollin wrote:On January 27 2013 20:49 Pusekatten wrote:On January 27 2013 02:43 SoulWager wrote:On January 27 2013 00:51 TheSwamp wrote:On January 26 2013 06:14 skyR wrote:On January 26 2013 04:50 TheSwamp wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 22 2013 05:52 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 05:37 TheSwamp wrote:On January 22 2013 05:13 MisterFred wrote:@The Swamp. As SkyR said, look at the post I wrote for Coil1 (last post pg. 1357) Though being near a microcenter (which one?), you could consider overclocking as you can do it relatively cheaply (you can often get z77 boards cheap as part of an in-store bundle deal). Either way, you'll want to get your processor at microcenter. For the build I posted on the last page, you'd want to get the i5-3470 @ microcenter for a nice $50 discount: http://www.microcenter.com/product/400664/Core_i5_3470_32GHz_LGA_1155_Boxed_ProcessorOther than processor or mobo as part of a bundle/combo deal, microcenter rarely offers prices better than newegg/us.ncix.com, however. Your budget is a little higher, of course, but there's not really anything more to spend on unless you want to put some effort into quiet computing, overclock, or are planning on getting a better monitor. You could upgrade to a 7950 instead of 7870, but that'll have only a marginal difference on graphics performance for maybe Planetside 2. A 7870 is already horrendous overkill for SC2 & CS:GO, as SkyR mentioned. Hi and thanks for the help. I live in Chicago. I bought my last PC at MicroCenter and they price matched everything. I'm not sure if they still do this, but if they do I'd rather get everything at the same time. If I were to overclock, would I need an extra fan? Also, to what Nvidia GPU would the 7950 and 7870 be comparable? I know nothing about ATI cards. Seriously though thanks so much! GTX670 and 660ti would be around what you're looking for (7950/7870 range). A lot of people say that 7870 is the best bang for the buck though. And yes, you will want to get an aftermarket fan (instead of the one that comes with your cpu package) if you want to OC. Shouldn't cost you more than 30-35 unless you want to get a fancy one. You will also need a bit more expensive motherboard. Oh, and one more thing. Check with MC first to see what exactly their bundle deal is this time around. It used to be $50 off any Z77 motherboard if you buy a i7-3770k, i5-3570k, or i3-3225, but at least in my area, they changed it to $40 off any motherboard with either 3570k or 3225. The sales reps didn't allow other processors to be bundled. Hi, sorry for taking so long to reply. So all I know is to be able to OC an Intel it has to have a K next to the name, correct? Also, My budget has become a little more flexible so if there something that I could spend some extra money on that would be worth it, I can do that. Overclocking requires a K suffix processor along with a Z chipset board (Z77, Z75, etc). OK thanks! Will overclocking an I5 give me more than enough performance on games? Sorry for being overly cautious. I got really bad advice from a friend on my first build, and I just want to be absolutely sure with everything. An i7 isn't really any faster than an i5 for gaming. If you want something faster than a 3570k for gaming you're stuck waiting on Haswell. Or you could get the AMD 3850 ^^ Is this a troll? I can't think of a single cpu bound game that benefits from the 8350 (you meant this right?) over a 3570. Zero games that tax a 3570 use more than 4 threads. Here is an approximation of how you can expect every cpu bound game to perform on different cpus: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/129No, this isn't 'intel biased', as x86 instructions aren't gimped for different configurations. You can look at any other cpu bound game and you'll find similar results, this graph is just the most comprehensive reliable bench I've seen. If you like running benchmarks 24/7 the 3570 and 3770 will be the better choice. But if you're actually going to use it for gaming, you should consider the 8350. You will get a CPU thats 50 dollars cheaper than the 3570k, the mobo will be cheaper and you get way more sata 6bg ports on AMD chipsets.
6Gb/s sata isn't something most people need more than one of at the most. Especially if they mention they're concerned about cost.
We usually try to stay relevant to what people are asking for here.
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Nice personal attack there...
His upgrade cycle was 3years. So when SSDs have become as cheap as they have in only a little over a year, don't you think it will continue to go that way? So why not give him the option on a board that has more than 2 ports?
Personally I would love to have a board with 4 ports. I got my Asus maximus 4 in December 2011, and I have upgraded my system bit by bit after that. Now I got 2x256gb SSDs in raid, and a 512gb SSD on a sata2 port for storage. I hate having to struggle with a HDD, you need to have a decent airflow over it, its big and makes unwanted noise.
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On January 29 2013 01:48 Pusekatten wrote:
Nice personal attack there...
His upgrade cycle was 3years. So when SSDs have become as cheap as they have in only a little over a year, don't you think it will continue to go that way? So why not give him the option on a board that has more than 2 ports?
Personally I would love to have a board with 4 ports. I got my Asus maximus 4 in December 2011, and I have upgraded my system bit by bit after that. Now I got 2x256gb SSDs in raid, and a 512gb SSD on a sata2 port for storage. I hate having to struggle with a HDD, you need to have a decent airflow over it, its big and makes unwanted noise.
That's not a personal attack. It's a statement. On multiple occasions you've made more of 6Gb/s sata than it deserves. I commented on that.
To answer your question, no, I don't. SSD has gone way down in price, but it's not likely to replace HDD at or near price/GB any time soon.
HDD isn't a "struggle". It doesn't take "decent airflow" (the ones in low quality, hot, shit laptops keep working), it's only "big" if you're building SFF, especially since capacity has increased (I've got a 1TB, and it's the same size as some old junker 40GB that I've used in the past), and the unwanted noise is only particularly noticeable if you're running a fairly open case nearly passive.
By the time you're talking about a GPU, CPU cooler, or case fans, unless you're spending extra money to quiet it down (at which point your best option is a sound dampening case, which will keep the HDD quiet), you're not going to hear the HDD.
Also, you're projecting your preferences onto other people, which, in fact, proves the "keep it relevant" comment.
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Two times I have said it. First when it came to the differences between AMD and Intel chipsets. And the second time when I gave someone my opinion on a board, but included some others IF he needed more than 2 ports. I would say both off them were relevant.
Im sorry to hear you don't think SSDs will drop more in price, but Im fine with it. Of course SSDs wont be able to beat HDDs in a price/gb unless the factories gets contiguously hit by nature for the next five years or so. But who needs that much space unless your a pirate or capuring raw material (1TB+)?
I still stand on my point and think HDDs is a struggle compared to SSDs. I have yet to see a HDD be mounted on the back off the motherboard tray, so you can get space for something like a radiator in the front. (I know he wont go watercooling, Im talking about other stuff now).
When it comes to that the HDD is making noise, you are correct. Thats why I first had noctua NF-D14 for the CPU, and the gigabyte dual fan cooler on my 460. I could hear the HDD all day long (Samsung F3 1TB). When I got my 7970, It was pretty much all I could hear until I got it watercooled (together with the cpu) when the blocks came out (using NF-F12 fans). Then I sold the my HDDs because I got sick off the listening to it all day, and got the 512bg SSD instead for storage etc. And no, I don't like how the noise dampening cases look, so i wouldn't even consider getting one.
But lets keep this discussion out off the thead from now on, since its not so relevant, and I will do my best to implement what you have told me in my posting in this thread from now on. ok?
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Sata 3 will probably be defunct in a few years anyway, we're already just hitting 6Gb/s with the fastest ssds during some operations iirc, and besides, you can use a pci-e sata 3 converter if you really decide to take that path later on? But it's a non-issue anyway as we're not talking about someone who's setting up an ssd raid array.
Here on tl we don't recommend a more expensive part unless they actually do need it, otherwise we'd be offering 1200w gold certified powersupplies with independant diesel generator in case the power drops out halfway through a week long compute operation done on their 16 workstation cards we recommended just incase they later on decided they wanted to choose that field of work.
Paying $150 instead of $55 just to get 2-4 extra sata ports that will never be used is silly.
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On January 26 2013 05:13 Torenhire wrote:Hey guys, I'm looking for a mid-range build...I'll hit the bullet points from the OP, feel free to post here or PM me if you have questions or suggestions...The build is for a friend, so I'll do my best! I've been building my own computers since middle school so I'm versed enough but I haven't had to replace my current rig so I'm out of the loop. I think my current PC was built when the 480 cards were brand new (I bought two of em, ouch..  ) Budget: Not a concern of mine really, I honestly don't know what parts cost these days...I'm one of those people that fronts a huge cost for a mega-computer and doesn't have to buy a new one for 5+ years Resolution: 1920x1080, single monitor use. Potential for dual monitor later but as of right now there's no place for two monitors haha. Use: Mild gaming, dabbling in photoshop. No streaming. I'd say the most "hardcore" game on the computer right now is Borderlands 2. The ability to play current/future games on mid/high settings is a plus, but we don't have to be maxing things. Photoshop is the person's job, they use it mostly on their work computer but they're enjoying it enough and seem to want to learn it more for personal use. Upgrade cycle: Generally I upgrade 2-4 years, or whenever what I have stops working...not sure on this person's plans for an upgrade cycle but we should shoot for the same I'd hope! Building When: Looking to build ASAP, Their old laptop died and we're looking to replace. Overclocking: No plans. Operating System: Yes we will be using Windows 7. Second GPU: No plans, not necessary for "future proofing" either. Parts: Microcenter is a mere 5 minutes away from me, though anywhere is fine really. Newegg is tough for me to buy from (long story) so unless the deals there are HUGE HUGE, avoid it.
Quote above is my original request, throwing this together..
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/A88p
Thoughts? I could probably pull back the processor a bit. I'm brand-loyal to EVGA so I know I could probably do better there for a similar card but meh.
I could probably get better prices at Newegg but I'm banned from doing business there...which I won't post about here but that's why some of the prices aren't as cheap as they could be TT
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Well, i likely won't sli. Likely won't overclock. Just want to have sometHing to play high settings on smoothly that lasts a few years.
Would i see a diff with 3570k vs 3470? Its 40$, & like i said its supposed to live like two years lol.
And do you think 460 is fine for now? Or does that need to be upgraded?
I noticed the 3570 has turbo boost, etc, would this make a difference?
I mostly play SC2. Some league. May play Elder scrolls, but who knows. Never on highest settings.
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Show nested quote +
Hey guys,
I'm looking for a mid-range build...I'll hit the bullet points from the OP, feel free to post here or PM me if you have questions or suggestions...The build is for a friend, so I'll do my best! I've been building my own computers since middle school so I'm versed enough but I haven't had to replace my current rig so I'm out of the loop. I think my current PC was built when the 480 cards were brand new (I bought two of em, ouch.. )
Budget: Not a concern of mine really, I honestly don't know what parts cost these days...I'm one of those people that fronts a huge cost for a mega-computer and doesn't have to buy a new one for 5+ years
Resolution: 1920x1080, single monitor use. Potential for dual monitor later but as of right now there's no place for two monitors haha.
Use: Mild gaming, dabbling in photoshop. No streaming. I'd say the most "hardcore" game on the computer right now is Borderlands 2. The ability to play current/future games on mid/high settings is a plus, but we don't have to be maxing things. Photoshop is the person's job, they use it mostly on their work computer but they're enjoying it enough and seem to want to learn it more for personal use.
Upgrade cycle: Generally I upgrade 2-4 years, or whenever what I have stops working...not sure on this person's plans for an upgrade cycle but we should shoot for the same I'd hope!
Building When: Looking to build ASAP, Their old laptop died and we're looking to replace.
Overclocking: No plans.
Operating System: Yes we will be using Windows 7.
Second GPU: No plans, not necessary for "future proofing" either.
Parts: Microcenter is a mere 5 minutes away from me, though anywhere is fine really. Newegg is tough for me to buy from (long story) so unless the deals there are HUGE HUGE, avoid it.
Quote above is my original request, throwing this together.. http://pcpartpicker.com/p/A88pThoughts? I could probably pull back the processor a bit. I'm brand-loyal to EVGA so I know I could probably do better there for a similar card but meh. I could probably get better prices at Newegg but I'm banned from doing business there...which I won't post about here but that's why some of the prices aren't as cheap as they could be TT
You could prolly find cheaper ram.
There's no real point getting a 2gb gpu, unless your planning on heavy nextgen PS use.
If you have the budget, you could appreciate an ssd. Could also help with occasional photoshop.
Dunno about the monitor, but $130 for a comp screen when you say you dont really care about the budget seems low to me. Monitor, keyboard and chair really should be more important than some useless last gen features
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On January 29 2013 06:33 FakePseudo wrote:
You could prolly find cheaper ram.
There's no real point getting a 2gb gpu, unless your planning on heavy nextgen PS use.
If you have the budget, you could appreciate an ssd. Could also help with occasional photoshop.
Dunno about the monitor, but $130 for a comp screen when you say you dont really care about the budget seems low to me. Monitor, keyboard and chair really should be more important than some useless last gen features
I'll hunt for some RAM, see if I can't get a better deal.
Do you suggest dropping to a 650 then?
SSD is an option, though I'm not at all familiar with what's good/bad/so on with SSD's. Input here?
Monitor I might not even buy, I think I have a 24" down in my basement that I'm not using now that I'm thinking about it. idk, not so concerned with the monitor as much as the PC and its components itself ^^
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Do you suggest dropping to a 650 then?
No, but even stuck with evga, you should be able to find a 1 gb version of a 660
Regarding the ssd, its a matter of personal opinion. Ssd will provide better responsivity and faster loading and boot times. If you choose so, you can store your big raw pics on it, which will help a bit with Ps. But with most games, it won't increase in game performance, nor will it drastically improve map dl and such (ty cloud storage!). As is said, its a matter of personal preference, but from experience, a lot of people do appreciate it.
idk, not so concerned with the monitor as much as the PC and its components itself ^^
You should.
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Not what I meant by that, I meant I'm not so concerned about buying one right now as much as the desktop. It's sitting right next to a 32" TV that we might even utilize if we can. Haha ^^;
I'll look for the 1 gig version, thanks.
Appreciate the input 
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On January 29 2013 02:57 Pusekatten wrote:
Two times I have said it. First when it came to the differences between AMD and Intel chipsets. And the second time when I gave someone my opinion on a board, but included some others IF he needed more than 2 ports. I would say both off them were relevant.
Im sorry to hear you don't think SSDs will drop more in price, but Im fine with it. Of course SSDs wont be able to beat HDDs in a price/gb unless the factories gets contiguously hit by nature for the next five years or so. But who needs that much space unless your a pirate or capuring raw material (1TB+)?
A few years ago when I wrote a paper on SSDs for one of my grad classes I came across an interesting article about SSD prices. It basically had a general formula for predicting how costs would fall in the future and that while SSD costs were expected to continually fall they were never expected to reach HDD costs without some kind of unforeseen advancement.
I looked through my old sources but I couldn't find the article. You can dig through what I have if you want. http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?a037g84k6k2gddp
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On January 29 2013 06:39 Torenhire wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 06:33 FakePseudo wrote:
You could prolly find cheaper ram.
There's no real point getting a 2gb gpu, unless your planning on heavy nextgen PS use.
If you have the budget, you could appreciate an ssd. Could also help with occasional photoshop.
Dunno about the monitor, but $130 for a comp screen when you say you dont really care about the budget seems low to me. Monitor, keyboard and chair really should be more important than some useless last gen features
SSD is an option, though I'm not at all familiar with what's good/bad/so on with SSD's. Input here?
To simply put:
Good
-Very fast OS boot time
-Will Significantly improve loading times in single player games with frequent loading screens (like Skyrim), which at least for me makes those games much more enjoyable.
-Quiet, although I think HD noises are usually drowned out by case fan noises in most set-ups anyway.
Bad
-Small space for cost (You usually have to pay ~$100+ for decent quality 128GB although that will depend on where you live)
-Doesn't really affect performance in games like SC2 multiplayer. Loading isn't really a big part of SC2 and if one guy loads slowly, then everyone has to wait for him anyway.
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On January 29 2013 06:27 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Well, i likely won't sli. Likely won't overclock. Just want to have sometHing to play high settings on smoothly that lasts a few years.
Would i see a diff with 3570k vs 3470? Its 40$, & like i said its supposed to live like two years lol.
And do you think 460 is fine for now? Or does that need to be upgraded?
I noticed the 3570 has turbo boost, etc, would this make a difference?
I mostly play SC2. Some league. May play Elder scrolls, but who knows. Never on highest settings.
There's a ~6% difference in clockspeed for a 25% increase in cost. If 200MHz means anything to you, you should be overclocking, as an extra $100 (over the 3470 + b75 mobo) will net you a 25-35% increase in clockspeed for a ~60% increase in price, which is a much better margin.
In short, no appreciable difference, and if you really want fast performance for money, overclocking makes more sense than paying through the ass solely for intel's stupid binning scheme.
Sc2 and league are fine on a 460 on max. Elderscrolls is good for almost max. Just wait until you feel your gpu is insufficient in the future, the great thing about things being gpu bound is you can tailor the settings to what you want, if you're cpu bound there's little you can do.
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On January 28 2013 05:41 TylerDurden275 wrote:
Budget-2000$
Resolution- not entirely sure,
Using it to play battlefield3,sc2, skyrim, etc..
Upgrade- Wouldn't really want to upgrade for probably 2 years.
Would like to build as soon as possible
Im not sure if i wanted to over clock , I wouldent really be able to, due to not knowing anything about it.
OS- i don't really want windows 8 because It gives me a headache. would
having windows 8 as opposed to windows 7 make a difference in terms of how games will run?
I really would only want one GPU
Probably buying from Newegg
Do you still need help?
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Some watercooling-related questions.
From what I read, a typical radiator can dissipate about 150W worth of heat per 120mm, such that a 3x120 rad can dissipate ~450W of heat.
Some research suggests that an overclocked 3770K + pair of 7970 Ghz Ed. would consume somewhere around 600-700 watts of power (on high load) and thus one should get 480+ worth of radiator.
What I can't seem to find is what kind of difference I would get from different permutations, meaning what kind of temperature difference is there between a single 360, a single 480, or a 360 + 240 on a single loop. Additionally, what, if any, difference would a push/pull setup make on the single 360?
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EPT
