On October 25 2024 23:08 Vindicare605 wrote: And to be clear also, he's saying that he wants this done not even because he believes it will improve the results at the top level. More so that it will improve morale in the scene for casual fans who don't follow the game close enough and just believe that balance is bad for Protoss so they will have something to celebrate.
He clearly said that the morale in the scene for casual fans is bad because even those people who don't really follow the game can tell that protoss is getting shat on consistently at the top level.
Edit: to be clear I'm just reporting what he's saying, I don't agree with him, I think if protoss is underpowered it's very slightly, and I would tend to side with Rotti that talks about the map pool being too terran favored, that makes a lot of sense to me. I also think that Maxpax not playing tournaments has a big impact, he dismissed that.
This is me exactly. I came back to this website after 5 years because I'm honestly fed up with this bullshit that's going in SC2. I quit entirely to start watching Brood War instead because I was honestly just tired of Protoss getting shat on left right and center with no fix in sight, just not interested in the pro scene whatsoever anymore. See a video by Artosis and Tasteless about an upcoming patch? Cool maybe it will get me interested in SC2 again if it spices up the game a little.
But instead I find even more Protoss nerfs after 2 years of them winning absolutely nothing. Nope turn that shit off back to Brood War
This patch note reads like some half baked custom map fan fiction. I actually laughed at the salvageable turret line. I immediately replayed Incontrol ranting about the bunker in my head. The sad part is that the pro players who are trying to game the system will eventually game themselves out of a job when interest plummets even more than it already has.
On October 26 2024 06:01 Figgy wrote: Patches like these are why I stopped watching SC2 at all and am now watching Brood War instead. Love watching Soulkey dominate ASL right now
What is the balance team thinking?? Everyone knows Protoss is the weakest race and they just nerf them again. It's completely unbelievable, guess I'll continue to never watch SC2 again, it was fun while it lasted.
Is it that much better seeing Protoss die to a hydra bust for what feels like the millionth time?
There’s pain to be had in both games, most notably if you are a Protoss enjoyer.
I think the overall thrust of this patch is pretty shit as regards Protoss, bafflingly so indeed.
Although I think there’s been some overreaction to the Balance Council’s tenure in its totality. PvZ’s been in a decent shape for a fair well, there have been some smart tweaks that I think have improved PvP as a matchup.
On the other hand, TvP has been crippling Toss’ ability to consistently be at the top end of tournaments/win any and this patch making this worse feels like a giant kick in the balls.
On October 25 2024 23:08 Vindicare605 wrote: And to be clear also, he's saying that he wants this done not even because he believes it will improve the results at the top level. More so that it will improve morale in the scene for casual fans who don't follow the game close enough and just believe that balance is bad for Protoss so they will have something to celebrate.
He clearly said that the morale in the scene for casual fans is bad because even those people who don't really follow the game can tell that protoss is getting shat on consistently at the top level.
Edit: to be clear I'm just reporting what he's saying, I don't agree with him, I think if protoss is underpowered it's very slightly, and I would tend to side with Rotti that talks about the map pool being too terran favored, that makes a lot of sense to me. I also think that Maxpax not playing tournaments has a big impact, he dismissed that.
This is me exactly. I came back to this website after 5 years because I'm honestly fed up with this bullshit that's going in SC2. I quit entirely to start watching Brood War instead because I was honestly just tired of Protoss getting shat on left right and center with no fix in sight, just not interested in the pro scene whatsoever anymore. See a video by Artosis and Tasteless about an upcoming patch? Cool maybe it will get me interested in SC2 again if it spices up the game a little.
But instead I find even more Protoss nerfs after 2 years of them winning absolutely nothing. Nope turn that shit off back to Brood War
I think you were absolutely right for most of that period, but after the last patch protoss has been quite okay in terms of balance, and the reason why they didn't win anything had more to do with the map pool and Maxpax not participating. There's probably also some good old bad luck involved because there's just not a ton of tournaments anyway. But yeah now with this patch it's probably not the best time to come back, you're right (again).
On October 25 2024 23:08 Vindicare605 wrote: And to be clear also, he's saying that he wants this done not even because he believes it will improve the results at the top level. More so that it will improve morale in the scene for casual fans who don't follow the game close enough and just believe that balance is bad for Protoss so they will have something to celebrate.
He clearly said that the morale in the scene for casual fans is bad because even those people who don't really follow the game can tell that protoss is getting shat on consistently at the top level.
Edit: to be clear I'm just reporting what he's saying, I don't agree with him, I think if protoss is underpowered it's very slightly, and I would tend to side with Rotti that talks about the map pool being too terran favored, that makes a lot of sense to me. I also think that Maxpax not playing tournaments has a big impact, he dismissed that.
This is me exactly. I came back to this website after 5 years because I'm honestly fed up with this bullshit that's going in SC2. I quit entirely to start watching Brood War instead because I was honestly just tired of Protoss getting shat on left right and center with no fix in sight, just not interested in the pro scene whatsoever anymore. See a video by Artosis and Tasteless about an upcoming patch? Cool maybe it will get me interested in SC2 again if it spices up the game a little.
But instead I find even more Protoss nerfs after 2 years of them winning absolutely nothing. Nope turn that shit off back to Brood War
I think you were absolutely right for most of that period, but after the last patch protoss has been quite okay in terms of balance, and the reason why they didn't win anything had more to do with the map pool and Maxpax not participating. There's probably also some good old bad luck involved because there's just not a ton of tournaments anyway. But yeah now with this patch it's probably not the best time to come back, you're right (again).
If you had PvT in something like the state it was when Trap was winning things (and ideally Trap in that shape), PvZ remaining in its current status since herO came back and shook up the matchup l, a few top players getting back to their former shape, I don’t think things would look that bad at all
On October 25 2024 23:06 Captain Peabody wrote: As a longstanding "just buff Protoss!" advocate, I would like to thank PiG for his services.
JUST BUFF PROTOSS. what's the worst that can happen? Classic and herO win some tournaments? Oh no... It's not like Serral/clem have been winning everything for years.
You want to know what the problem is? This is the problem.
Protoss is not designed well. It has a lower skill ceiling than the other 2 races do and a lower skill floor. This is why they are over represented in GM and in the lower rungs of pro play and under represented at the top of pro play.
So buffing Protoss so that herO (as an example) can consistently beat Serral and Maru and Clem and Dark would have a cascading effect that would impact every tier of play from the top of the professional level all the way down to Bronze league.
This would turn into tournaments where PvP is the most played match up which would kill viewership. This would mean that Protoss which already dominates the ladder would absolutely CRUSH the ladder.
This would lead to an outcry from the community that would demand Protoss nerfs, and they would get them. And then we start this entire process over again.
This isn't hypothetical. This process has already happened many times in SC2's lifespan. It always comes from the same place. Protoss is designed poorly. PiG in his rant even talks about it a lot but mostly as a point that the balance council is unable to actually do anything to fix Protoss' core design so all that's left them for them to do is to tune their power level which if tuned far enough to produce Protoss champions will cause a backlash at the community level immediately afterward.
So that's the answer to your question, "what's the worst that can happen." You want to see worst case scenario look at what happened during the Void Ray meta when Blizzard buffed those not that long ago.
Any buff that the balance council gives to Protoss will be twice as impactful at the lower levels than it will be at the top level. Protoss needs a LOT of buffs to get it to where Serral stops dominating them, and that will mean a LOT of buffs x2 when facing Protoss on the ladder.
This is the fundamental problem when looking at Protoss balance in SC2. It's a badly designed race, it's a race that is designed to thrive in Best of 1's on the ladder, not Best of 7's in a tournament setting. All of the problems that come from being unable to find a good balance for that race comes from that foundational problem.
Until Blizzard has the guts to address those fundamental design problems, we're just going to keep repeating the same cycle over and over again.
JUST BUFF PROTOSS. what's the worst that can happen? Classic and herO win some tournaments? Oh no... It's not like Serral/clem have been winning everything for years.
You want to know what the problem is? This is the problem.
Protoss is not designed well. It has a lower skill ceiling than the other 2 races do and a lower skill floor. This is why they are over represented in GM and in the lower rungs of pro play and under represented at the top of pro play.
So buffing Protoss so that herO (as an example) can consistently beat Serral and Maru and Clem and Dark would have a cascading effect that would impact every tier of play from the top of the professional level all the way down to Bronze league.
This would turn into tournaments where PvP is the most played match up which would kill viewership. This would mean that Protoss which already dominates the ladder would absolutely CRUSH the ladder.
This would lead to an outcry from the community that would demand Protoss nerfs, and they would get them. And then we start this entire process over again.
This isn't hypothetical. This process has already happened many times in SC2's lifespan. It always comes from the same place. Protoss is designed poorly. PiG in his rant even talks about it a lot but mostly as a point that the balance council is unable to actually do anything to fix Protoss' core design so all that's left them for them to do is to tune their power level which if tuned far enough to produce Protoss champions will cause a backlash at the community level immediately afterward.
So that's the answer to your question, "what's the worst that can happen." You want to see worst case scenario look at what happened during the Void Ray meta when Blizzard buffed those not that long ago.
Any buff that the balance council gives to Protoss will be twice as impactful at the lower levels than it will be at the top level. Protoss needs a LOT of buffs to get it to where Serral stops dominating them, and that will mean a LOT of buffs x2 when facing Protoss on the ladder.
This is the fundamental problem when looking at Protoss balance in SC2. It's a badly designed race, it's a race that is designed to thrive in Best of 1's on the ladder, not Best of 7's in a tournament setting. All of the problems that come from being unable to find a good balance for that race comes from that foundational problem.
Until Blizzard has the guts to address those fundamental design problems, we're just going to keep repeating the same cycle over and over again.
That's just fundamentally not true, and a fixable problem even if it is. Ladder in 2022 was more balanced when Protoss was at it's best and herO was winning tournaments than it is now.
nerfing the nova by 0.125 will not change the fact that you 1a into it or storms instead of splitting, while it has a huge amount of impact on higher level players. Fundamentally, balance at lower levels has a very easy decision - "Git gud".
JUST BUFF PROTOSS. what's the worst that can happen? Classic and herO win some tournaments? Oh no... It's not like Serral/clem have been winning everything for years.
You want to know what the problem is? This is the problem.
Protoss is not designed well. It has a lower skill ceiling than the other 2 races do and a lower skill floor. This is why they are over represented in GM and in the lower rungs of pro play and under represented at the top of pro play.
So buffing Protoss so that herO (as an example) can consistently beat Serral and Maru and Clem and Dark would have a cascading effect that would impact every tier of play from the top of the professional level all the way down to Bronze league.
This would turn into tournaments where PvP is the most played match up which would kill viewership. This would mean that Protoss which already dominates the ladder would absolutely CRUSH the ladder.
This would lead to an outcry from the community that would demand Protoss nerfs, and they would get them. And then we start this entire process over again.
This isn't hypothetical. This process has already happened many times in SC2's lifespan. It always comes from the same place. Protoss is designed poorly. PiG in his rant even talks about it a lot but mostly as a point that the balance council is unable to actually do anything to fix Protoss' core design so all that's left them for them to do is to tune their power level which if tuned far enough to produce Protoss champions will cause a backlash at the community level immediately afterward.
So that's the answer to your question, "what's the worst that can happen." You want to see worst case scenario look at what happened during the Void Ray meta when Blizzard buffed those not that long ago.
Any buff that the balance council gives to Protoss will be twice as impactful at the lower levels than it will be at the top level. Protoss needs a LOT of buffs to get it to where Serral stops dominating them, and that will mean a LOT of buffs x2 when facing Protoss on the ladder.
This is the fundamental problem when looking at Protoss balance in SC2. It's a badly designed race, it's a race that is designed to thrive in Best of 1's on the ladder, not Best of 7's in a tournament setting. All of the problems that come from being unable to find a good balance for that race comes from that foundational problem.
Until Blizzard has the guts to address those fundamental design problems, we're just going to keep repeating the same cycle over and over again.
That's just fundamentally not true, and a fixable problem even if it is. Ladder in 2022 was more balanced when Protoss was at it's best and herO was winning tournaments than it is now.
nerfing the nova by 0.125 will not change the fact that you 1a into it or storms instead of splitting, while it has a huge amount of impact on higher level players. Fundamentally, balance at lower levels has a very easy decision - "Git gud".
How good do people have to get?
I think Vindicare’s assessment is pretty bang on overall.
JUST BUFF PROTOSS. what's the worst that can happen? Classic and herO win some tournaments? Oh no... It's not like Serral/clem have been winning everything for years.
You want to know what the problem is? This is the problem.
Protoss is not designed well. It has a lower skill ceiling than the other 2 races do and a lower skill floor. This is why they are over represented in GM and in the lower rungs of pro play and under represented at the top of pro play.
So buffing Protoss so that herO (as an example) can consistently beat Serral and Maru and Clem and Dark would have a cascading effect that would impact every tier of play from the top of the professional level all the way down to Bronze league.
This would turn into tournaments where PvP is the most played match up which would kill viewership. This would mean that Protoss which already dominates the ladder would absolutely CRUSH the ladder.
This would lead to an outcry from the community that would demand Protoss nerfs, and they would get them. And then we start this entire process over again.
This isn't hypothetical. This process has already happened many times in SC2's lifespan. It always comes from the same place. Protoss is designed poorly. PiG in his rant even talks about it a lot but mostly as a point that the balance council is unable to actually do anything to fix Protoss' core design so all that's left them for them to do is to tune their power level which if tuned far enough to produce Protoss champions will cause a backlash at the community level immediately afterward.
So that's the answer to your question, "what's the worst that can happen." You want to see worst case scenario look at what happened during the Void Ray meta when Blizzard buffed those not that long ago.
Any buff that the balance council gives to Protoss will be twice as impactful at the lower levels than it will be at the top level. Protoss needs a LOT of buffs to get it to where Serral stops dominating them, and that will mean a LOT of buffs x2 when facing Protoss on the ladder.
This is the fundamental problem when looking at Protoss balance in SC2. It's a badly designed race, it's a race that is designed to thrive in Best of 1's on the ladder, not Best of 7's in a tournament setting. All of the problems that come from being unable to find a good balance for that race comes from that foundational problem.
Until Blizzard has the guts to address those fundamental design problems, we're just going to keep repeating the same cycle over and over again.
That's just fundamentally not true, and a fixable problem even if it is. Ladder in 2022 was more balanced when Protoss was at it's best and herO was winning tournaments than it is now.
nerfing the nova by 0.125 will not change the fact that you 1a into it or storms instead of splitting, while it has a huge amount of impact on higher level players. Fundamentally, balance at lower levels has a very easy decision - "Git gud".
It isn't a fixable problem.
The only times, THE ONLY TIMES that Protoss has ever been winning at the top of pro league is when Protoss goes on crazy win streaks where they start winning everything.
Protoss' fundamental design flaws, keep it from ever producing players like Maru and Serral that are standouts of their race and are able to carry the banner for them consistently when no one else can. The only time Protoss wins is when everyone that plays Protoss is winning.
If you think that's not true, then you seriously just don't know the history of SC2.
Now what PiG said and I agree with is that the balance council has gone too far in the other direction. Protoss was already in a state 2-3 patch cycles ago where it wasn't winning at the top level and then it received multiple nerfs that put it in an even worse spot. Those can and should be walked back.
The ideal place to be would be where Brood War is. Protoss dominates the ladder and lower tier pro play, and still makes Ro4 appearances often, but doesn't win anywhere near as often as Terran or Zerg do. Protoss has similar design problems in Brood War that it has in SC2, but SC2's problems are far more pronounced and thus we get even more polarized results.
We can't fix the problem, but we can address it to make it better than it is currently. But the fundamental problem is still this. If Maru or Serral are losing to Protoss on a regular basis, that's bad for the scene because that means Protoss is dominating EVERY tournament. There is no in between where sometimes Protoss wins and sometimes Protoss loses.
The way the scene is now, wins are divided between Terran and Zerg and Protoss gets the scraps. If Protoss is buffed to the point where Serral is losing consistently to them, then it will be Protoss winning everything and Terran and Zerg getting the scraps.
That's just how it is. This is why Protoss domination periods never last long. This is why the nerfs always come. If you want to repeat this cycle again, when we've already been through it multiple times, then that's your opinion. But personally, I don't want to.
On October 25 2024 22:14 BlackEyed wrote: I don't understand, is this some kind of conspiracy or why is the obvious OP of ghosts being ignored? Has a pew pew lover gotten to power or is there some other reason?
Remember that the balance council is heavily Terran favoured and Protoss biased
There is no way the ghost will get nerfed no matter how Op they due to all the terran pros whining within the council
JUST BUFF PROTOSS. what's the worst that can happen? Classic and herO win some tournaments? Oh no... It's not like Serral/clem have been winning everything for years.
You want to know what the problem is? This is the problem.
Protoss is not designed well. It has a lower skill ceiling than the other 2 races do and a lower skill floor. This is why they are over represented in GM and in the lower rungs of pro play and under represented at the top of pro play.
So buffing Protoss so that herO (as an example) can consistently beat Serral and Maru and Clem and Dark would have a cascading effect that would impact every tier of play from the top of the professional level all the way down to Bronze league.
This would turn into tournaments where PvP is the most played match up which would kill viewership. This would mean that Protoss which already dominates the ladder would absolutely CRUSH the ladder.
This would lead to an outcry from the community that would demand Protoss nerfs, and they would get them. And then we start this entire process over again.
This isn't hypothetical. This process has already happened many times in SC2's lifespan. It always comes from the same place. Protoss is designed poorly. PiG in his rant even talks about it a lot but mostly as a point that the balance council is unable to actually do anything to fix Protoss' core design so all that's left them for them to do is to tune their power level which if tuned far enough to produce Protoss champions will cause a backlash at the community level immediately afterward.
So that's the answer to your question, "what's the worst that can happen." You want to see worst case scenario look at what happened during the Void Ray meta when Blizzard buffed those not that long ago.
Any buff that the balance council gives to Protoss will be twice as impactful at the lower levels than it will be at the top level. Protoss needs a LOT of buffs to get it to where Serral stops dominating them, and that will mean a LOT of buffs x2 when facing Protoss on the ladder.
This is the fundamental problem when looking at Protoss balance in SC2. It's a badly designed race, it's a race that is designed to thrive in Best of 1's on the ladder, not Best of 7's in a tournament setting. All of the problems that come from being unable to find a good balance for that race comes from that foundational problem.
Until Blizzard has the guts to address those fundamental design problems, we're just going to keep repeating the same cycle over and over again.
That's just fundamentally not true, and a fixable problem even if it is. Ladder in 2022 was more balanced when Protoss was at it's best and herO was winning tournaments than it is now.
nerfing the nova by 0.125 will not change the fact that you 1a into it or storms instead of splitting, while it has a huge amount of impact on higher level players. Fundamentally, balance at lower levels has a very easy decision - "Git gud".
It isn't a fixable problem.
The only times, THE ONLY TIMES that Protoss has ever been winning at the top of pro league is when Protoss goes on crazy win streaks where they start winning everything.
Protoss' fundamental design flaws, keep it from ever producing players like Maru and Serral that are standouts of their race and are able to carry the banner for them consistently when no one else can. The only time Protoss wins is when everyone that plays Protoss is winning.
If you think that's not true, then you seriously just don't know the history of SC2.
Now what PiG said and I agree with is that the balance council has gone too far in the other direction. Protoss was already in a state 2-3 patch cycles ago where it wasn't winning at the top level and then it received multiple nerfs that put it in an even worse spot. Those can and should be walked back.
The ideal place to be would be where Brood War is. Protoss dominates the ladder and lower tier pro play, and still makes Ro4 appearances often, but doesn't win anywhere near as often as Terran or Zerg do. Protoss has similar design problems in Brood War that it has in SC2, but SC2's problems are far more pronounced and thus we get even more polarized results.
We can't fix the problem, but we can address it to make it better than it is currently. But the fundamental problem is still this. If Maru or Serral are losing to Protoss on a regular basis, that's bad for the scene because that means Protoss is dominating EVERY tournament. There is no in between where sometimes Protoss wins and sometimes Protoss loses.
The way the scene is now, wins are divided between Terran and Zerg and Protoss gets the scraps. If Protoss is buffed to the point where Serral is losing consistently to them, then it will be Protoss winning everything and Terran and Zerg getting the scraps.
That's just how it is. This is why Protoss domination periods never last long. This is why the nerfs always come. If you want to repeat this cycle again, when we've already been through it multiple times, then that's your opinion. But personally, I don't want to.
Yeah can’t disagree with much of that really.
I think people sleep on quite how much heavy lifting Serral’s done in the last year or so for Zerg overall. I think most probably because there was a transition from a handful of Zergs winning a ton, to Serral continuing to win a lot for many it’s still those pesky Zergs winning. If say, Serral went on hiatus for a year, Zergs didn’t do much and returned and posted his results the perception would be rather different.
We have seen for me two periods where Protoss were competitive with a few players versus a cluster in a ‘rising tide raises all ships’ for me, the ‘Trap era’ and herO’s return from military. So I don’t think it always tracks that Protoss bounces between not being irrelevant or having a load of players doing well. But the margins are pretty razor thin
It’s really for me a case of looking at a Serral or a Clem stream and thinking, how can a Protoss compete with that with the tools they have and the way the game is designed, in a way that is fair in a competitive/skill level sense? I mean you just can’t really do it
It feels an obvious thing but I feel it rarely comes up. The early stages of a game will be different from the later stages, if you have factions that are hard to learn, hard to master with a huge potential ceiling, and ones that are initially easier, but cap out a bit lower.
It takes time for the collective hive mind to figure things out, and for talents to emerge that can fully take advantage of various discoveries and have the mentality and the mechanical ability to really maximise potential.
Be it Maru, Serral or Clem, players of that ilk. You will eventually get them in a game of SC2’s popularity.
Much respect to Clem, he's being honest and brave. It remindes me to when Rogue spoke about ZvP being straight imba. That went on for years. We already have suffered one and a half years of TvP being imba. And, with this patch, things will get worse
It’s really for me a case of looking at a Serral or a Clem stream and thinking, how can a Protoss compete with that with the tools they have and the way the game is designed, in a way that is fair in a competitive/skill level sense? I mean you just can’t really do it
Exactly.
We can't get to a place where there will be an even representation of tournament winners so long as one of the races is specifically designed to be easier to play than the other 2. If the race that is easier to play is as good as the other races is, then it will dominate pro play.
Why would anyone play the other races that are harder to play when Protoss is just as if not more successful with less effort?
This never should have been a question we should be asking in the first place, but this is where we're at because Blizzard designed Protoss badly and never did enough to address it.
So our only options are a: keep things as they are, Protoss is weak at the top level while still fun and viable for your average player all the way up to the bottom of the professional level.
b: buff Protoss so that it will start winning at the top level. This will destabilize the rest of the game and will HAVE to be rolled back eventually due to community outcry from the other two races, but it will provide a temporary malaise to the current community outcry of Protoss not winning.
c: Rework Protoss from the ground up to be more difficult to play and more rewarding to higher level players.
Each of those solutions is problematic in their own ways. a: sucks because it means Protoss players and fans get left out in the cold when watching or competing in pro play. b: sucks because it means that the game gets hyper toxic for a period when PvP starts to become the most played match in tournaments (which NO ONE likes) and community hate for Protoss explodes on reddit.
and c: even if we got past the part where Blizzard doesn't put the kind of development time in SC2 to execute this properly, would take a long time to balance properly as the race is completely redesigned and everyone has to relearn how to play it and play against it. We don't know if the end result will be much better than where we are now.
This is why we are stuck where we are. There aren't any easy solutions to any of this.
It isn't true that the only way for protoss to win is to have a period where every protoss wins. Literally the period tossboy was talking about, before the last batch of nerfs, herO and Maxpax could win things and protosses weren't winning everything everywhere. What you describe doesn't match reality, even if you write only times in caps lock.
The race that has the worst design in the game is terran. With its core units that you will build every game, terran creates so much direct potential in the hands of an amazing player that the other races are forced to tech up to fight it. In a well designed game, tech up should be either a choice that you make, forcing a response from your opponent, or a response that you are forced to make because your opponent is doing something specific that you need to counter. It shouldn't be your default requirement in order to match the power of the standard low tech army of your opponent. Even worse, when you bend to this rule and tech up to fight the standard terran army, the terran is then *only* at a disadvantage if he doesn't tech up in response. Like, it's not immediately clear that he'll lose, he might still win with the army that you teched up specifically to counter. That is a level of freedom that other races can't dream of.
Nebuchad at this point, you're the guy saying Climate Change isn't real while the rest of us are debating the hard decisions that need to be made about what to do about it.
Even PiG in his rant mentions over and over again that Protoss has underlying design problems. It is a fact of life in SC2.
We can either choose to ignore them and engage in this cyclical balancing that we've been doing for the last 14 years or we can talk about them and try and do something about them. It's really that simple.
Trying to pretend like Protoss design isn't problematic doesn't do anyone any favors.
On October 26 2024 09:42 Vindicare605 wrote: Nebuchad at this point, you're the guy saying Climate Change isn't real while the rest of us are debating the hard decisions that need to be made about what to do about it.
Even PiG in his rant mentions over and over again that Protoss has underlying design problems. It is a fact of life in SC2.
We can either choose to ignore them and engage in this cyclical balancing that we've been doing for the last 14 years or we can talk about them and try and do something about them. It's really that simple.
Trying to pretend like Protoss design isn't problematic doesn't do anyone any favors.
The difference is that when people say that climate change is real the data is correct, as opposed to you who posts incorrect data BUT IN CAPS LOCK.
I'm not really afraid that what I say might hurt the future of protoss because the future of protoss players is probably just to go play Stormgate.
On October 26 2024 09:42 Vindicare605 wrote: Nebuchad at this point, you're the guy saying Climate Change isn't real while the rest of us are debating the hard decisions that need to be made about what to do about it.
Even PiG in his rant mentions over and over again that Protoss has underlying design problems. It is a fact of life in SC2.
We can either choose to ignore them and engage in this cyclical balancing that we've been doing for the last 14 years or we can talk about them and try and do something about them. It's really that simple.
Trying to pretend like Protoss design isn't problematic doesn't do anyone any favors.
The difference is that when people say that climate change is real the data is correct, as opposed to you who posts incorrect data BUT IN CAPS LOCK.
I'm not really afraid that what I say might hurt the future of protoss because the future of protoss players is probably just to go play Stormgate.
That's really funny you say that because Stormgate has all of Protoss' design problems only much worse in the Celestials.
The Celestials were designed by the same designers that ruined SC2 Protoss and that didn't learn their lesson and were desperately trying to prove their idiotic concepts could work.
I'd invite you to go take a look at Celestials yourself and tell me you think that race can ever work in a competitive RTS. Because that's the end result that your kind of denial ends up at.
EPT
