On January 18 2023 08:52 Captain Peabody wrote: Awesome!
Have we ever had a player in both ASL and GSL at the same time? Even early rounds?
I would imagine not, but why not?
A few people have tried (e. g. soO in 2017) but it's just hard to be competitive enough to get into both. Particularly ASL has such a large player pool, if your main focus is another game you're probably getting blasted by random amateurs in the qualifiers.
Not knowing too much about ASL, I feel like focusing mainly on BW and a little on SC2 would be the best way to qualify for both, since virtually every good player qualifies for Code S rn (of course, depending on how the format is changed for 2023 this may no longer be the case.) TY is good enough that he could maybe make it work focusing more on SC2 though
There's just more money to be made for TY in sc2 tournaments compared to bw ones. Doing well in sc2 competitively is a lot more profitable, and TY's potential to do well is very high with enough effort being put in. In bw his potential is unsure, and the gain to be the best of the best isn't as high because the environment is a lot more reliant on being a popular streamer. Imo he wants to tap into that streamer audience already in case he will fully switch when sc2 esports isn't lucrative anymore. He'll surely be part of all the 'proleague' content the korean bw scene is producing, etc.
It will definitely be interesting to see how TY handles this though, an ASL qualification would be incredible! Outside of TY i always thought Rain would be able to potentially qualify for GSL if he played sc2 'on the side' still.
I never doubt TY's BW pontential. The advantage is that he's the youngest progamer ever in BW history, whose ID was BaBy back then. His top ELO ranking was higher than some of today's ASL champion around 2010. The disadvantage is he left BW for more than 10 years, he needs to put lots of efforts on it to get back not to mention his ambition to continue to challenge the GSL title. Well, I'm also really interested in his performance. After all if there is anyone who can qualify both ASL and GSL at the same time now, it will be TY.
I think people over estimate the effort needed for ASL qualification, the scene is not as competitive as during kespa days. The elephant became old and/or entertainment streamers
As far as I remember, he's good friends with Flash. And Flash will always be Flash. His strategic thinking and understanding of the game can't possible have gone anywhere in the last year and a half. With some support from Flash, I can definitely see TY making ASL.
Concerning the decisions itself, I think TY is wisely hedging his bets. SC2 is the more lucrative thing for him at the moment while Brood War is the safer option. Makes sense to test the waters just in case.
Besides, he's already kinda done that. There was a period when he was a GSL player, GSL caster and, occasionally, BW streamer. He had zero issue pursuing all three of those paths simultaneously.
All in all, I'm optimistic. Look forward to seeing him do it.
On January 19 2023 17:41 Poopi wrote: I think people over estimate the effort needed for ASL qualification, the scene is not as competitive as during kespa days. The elephant became old and/or entertainment streamers
no they don't
it's still pretty damn hard to qualify, especially if you're unlucky with the group draw
On January 18 2023 08:52 Captain Peabody wrote: Awesome!
Have we ever had a player in both ASL and GSL at the same time? Even early rounds?
I would imagine not, but why not?
A few people have tried (e. g. soO in 2017) but it's just hard to be competitive enough to get into both. Particularly ASL has such a large player pool, if your main focus is another game you're probably getting blasted by random amateurs in the qualifiers.
Not knowing too much about ASL, I feel like focusing mainly on BW and a little on SC2 would be the best way to qualify for both, since virtually every good player qualifies for Code S rn (of course, depending on how the format is changed for 2023 this may no longer be the case.) TY is good enough that he could maybe make it work focusing more on SC2 though
There's just more money to be made for TY in sc2 tournaments compared to bw ones. Doing well in sc2 competitively is a lot more profitable, and TY's potential to do well is very high with enough effort being put in. In bw his potential is unsure, and the gain to be the best of the best isn't as high because the environment is a lot more reliant on being a popular streamer. Imo he wants to tap into that streamer audience already in case he will fully switch when sc2 esports isn't lucrative anymore. He'll surely be part of all the 'proleague' content the korean bw scene is producing, etc.
It will definitely be interesting to see how TY handles this though, an ASL qualification would be incredible! Outside of TY i always thought Rain would be able to potentially qualify for GSL if he played sc2 'on the side' still.
More money in SC2 tournaments, sure, but what about streaming, etc.? Don't forget how much more popular BW is than SC2 in Korea. I think there are some pretty good reasons that Rain, Soulkey, Jaedong, etc. switched back to BW (all were winning premier tourneys in SC2, FWIW).
That was my point. If we accept that TY wants to do both, it makes more sense to invest more effort into sc2 as a game because the tournament scene still pays pretty well and his status as a player should mean he can go for big money there. Whereas in BW the tournament scene itself isn't that relevant money wise, he doesn't have to grind the game and become one of the very best players, but rather should focus on streaming and building the connections for the almost inevitable full switch to bw streaming in the future.
On January 19 2023 17:36 fermatlittle-theorem wrote:
On January 18 2023 08:52 Captain Peabody wrote: Awesome!
Have we ever had a player in both ASL and GSL at the same time? Even early rounds?
I would imagine not, but why not?
A few people have tried (e. g. soO in 2017) but it's just hard to be competitive enough to get into both. Particularly ASL has such a large player pool, if your main focus is another game you're probably getting blasted by random amateurs in the qualifiers.
Not knowing too much about ASL, I feel like focusing mainly on BW and a little on SC2 would be the best way to qualify for both, since virtually every good player qualifies for Code S rn (of course, depending on how the format is changed for 2023 this may no longer be the case.) TY is good enough that he could maybe make it work focusing more on SC2 though
There's just more money to be made for TY in sc2 tournaments compared to bw ones. Doing well in sc2 competitively is a lot more profitable, and TY's potential to do well is very high with enough effort being put in. In bw his potential is unsure, and the gain to be the best of the best isn't as high because the environment is a lot more reliant on being a popular streamer. Imo he wants to tap into that streamer audience already in case he will fully switch when sc2 esports isn't lucrative anymore. He'll surely be part of all the 'proleague' content the korean bw scene is producing, etc.
It will definitely be interesting to see how TY handles this though, an ASL qualification would be incredible! Outside of TY i always thought Rain would be able to potentially qualify for GSL if he played sc2 'on the side' still.
I never doubt TY's BW pontential. The advantage is that he's the youngest progamer ever in BW history, whose ID was BaBy back then. His top ELO ranking was higher than some of today's ASL champion around 2010. The disadvantage is he left BW for more than 10 years, he needs to put lots of efforts on it to get back not to mention his ambition to continue to challenge the GSL title. Well, I'm also really interested in his performance. After all if there is anyone who can qualify both ASL and GSL at the same time now, it will be TY.
Oh i don't doubt him per se, i think he has the potential to be one of the best bw players right now. But as you said, it would probably take quite a bit of grinding, and that grinding is probably better invested into sc2 atm where you could potentially win prize money like this: IEM Katowice/2023 TY left the sc2 scene at the top, i think he can go right back to the top when focusing on the game. Whereas in bw the gain from being the best isn't really as high, streaming itself, building connections to all the other streamers and their projects, that kind of thing is more important than being flash 2.0.
On January 19 2023 17:41 Poopi wrote: I think people over estimate the effort needed for ASL qualification, the scene is not as competitive as during kespa days. The elephant became old and/or entertainment streamers
It's not as professional, no doubt. But the scene itself is quite strong, many new things to learn and adapt to compared to the kespa days, even though the mechanical prowess might not be at 100% due to the training system not being there anymore. But qualifying for ASL is certainly more difficult than qualifying for GSL, bw is just a more active scene, not even close.
It's not as professional, no doubt. But the scene itself is quite strong, many new things to learn and adapt to compared to the kespa days, even though the mechanical prowess might not be at 100% due to the training system not being there anymore. But qualifying for ASL is certainly more difficult than qualifying for GSL, bw is just a more active scene, not even close.
Yeah qualifying for ASL is far more difficult than GSL (it's kinda by design that GSL is "free" to enter for the remaining pro players), but it's not out of reach for TY imho. GSL being stretched out on so many weeks can allow one smart player like TY to practice both games, so I am pretty sure he will succeed at qualifying for ASL at least once. Can be wrong though
It's not as professional, no doubt. But the scene itself is quite strong, many new things to learn and adapt to compared to the kespa days, even though the mechanical prowess might not be at 100% due to the training system not being there anymore. But qualifying for ASL is certainly more difficult than qualifying for GSL, bw is just a more active scene, not even close.
Yeah qualifying for ASL is far more difficult than GSL (it's kinda by design that GSL is "free" to enter for the remaining pro players), but it's not out of reach for TY imho. GSL being stretched out on so many weeks can allow one smart player like TY to practice both games, so I am pretty sure he will succeed at qualifying for ASL at least once. Can be wrong though
As i have not watched a lot of bw it's difficult to say, i just know that there are quite a lot of 'notable players' on the qualifier pages for ASL :D While the competitive nature is a lot different now, the scene itself is fairly active, people playing all the time, figuring new things out, playing smarter compared to the kespa days one could say. It at least seems like it would take a real effort from TY to get in shape, but who knows! Gonna be fun to follow and see how he does, i expect him to be part of some bw action outside the ASL too, like teammatches, etc. I just would assume that he'll focus a lot more on sc2, assuming the sc2 scene stays at the level it is at right now. (which isn't even confirmed yet i think?)
I don't think it's as hard as people think to shift focus back and forth. ASL only has two tournaments a year compared to three for GSL, and both are MAX two-month commitments if you happen to go to the finals. I think there's plenty of time for him to focus mainly on SC2 and find some room to play BW during lulls in the schedule.
And if the return to SC2 ends up going REALLY well, I'm sure he'll adjust his plans to try and maximize for SC2 success instead.
Update on his ASL qualifiers: On 1st try of qualifiers (Day 1 which is harder compared to Day 2, because here pros with best form sweep through) he went all way into last match where he lost to best macro protoss BeSt 1-2. On 2nd try in the very end he lost TvT to HiyA 1-2. Shame but TY showed he's no joke, force to be reckoned with by showing extremely good results for brutal qualifiers where top pros sometimes fail to qualify and he tried to qualify for a game he played professionaly last time 10 years ago just after he discharged. I'm sure if he wants to focus BW further he will qualify 100% for next ASL.
On February 14 2023 05:20 outscar wrote: Update on his ASL qualifiers: On 1st try of qualifiers (Day 1 which is harder compared to Day 2, because here pros with best form sweep through) he went all way into last match where he lost to best macro protoss BeSt 1-2. On 2nd try in the very end he lost TvT to HiyA 1-2. Shame but TY showed he's no joke, force to be reckoned with by showing extremely good results for brutal qualifiers where top pros sometimes fail to qualify and he tried to qualify for a game he played professionaly last time 10 years ago just after he discharged. I'm sure if he wants to focus BW further he will qualify 100% for next ASL.
On February 14 2023 05:20 outscar wrote: Update on his ASL qualifiers: On 1st try of qualifiers (Day 1 which is harder compared to Day 2, because here pros with best form sweep through) he went all way into last match where he lost to best macro protoss BeSt 1-2. On 2nd try in the very end he lost TvT to HiyA 1-2. Shame but TY showed he's no joke, force to be reckoned with by showing extremely good results for brutal qualifiers where top pros sometimes fail to qualify and he tried to qualify for a game he played professionaly last time 10 years ago just after he discharged. I'm sure if he wants to focus BW further he will qualify 100% for next ASL.
On January 19 2023 17:41 Poopi wrote: I think people over estimate the effort needed for ASL qualification, the scene is not as competitive as during kespa days. The elephant became old and/or entertainment streamers
exactly. if foreigners wanted to switch over such as serral, reynor, showtime, heromarine they would have no problem really. ASL isnt this mystical thing people make it out to be its just the interest in it is so low for foreigners.
On January 19 2023 17:41 Poopi wrote: I think people over estimate the effort needed for ASL qualification, the scene is not as competitive as during kespa days. The elephant became old and/or entertainment streamers
exactly. if foreigners wanted to switch over such as serral, reynor, showtime, heromarine they would have no problem really. ASL isnt this mystical thing people make it out to be its just the interest in it is so low for foreigners.
True, and imagine if s1mple switched to sc2, oh man oh man.
On January 19 2023 17:41 Poopi wrote: I think people over estimate the effort needed for ASL qualification, the scene is not as competitive as during kespa days. The elephant became old and/or entertainment streamers
exactly. if foreigners wanted to switch over such as serral, reynor, showtime, heromarine they would have no problem really. ASL isnt this mystical thing people make it out to be its just the interest in it is so low for foreigners.
Disagree. ASL is most brutal league in the world, amateurs that are ranked N1 on ladder get their asses kicked on qualifiers and even if no name player makes it through he gets sweeped on ro24/32 without winning a single map vs. pros. Only exception is SoMa but he was active during post KeSPA era where SC2 transition occured and I think if KeSPA was around at 2013 he would get pro license. To make it clear: there are billion things pros know and do better, their knowledge about BW is out of the world and if you wanna have chance to beat them you need to train ONLY vs. them 24/7, ladder means NOTHING! While Serral, Reynor and other pros have slight better chance to make it through because they're young, their reflexes are better, in BW decision making is >>> compared macro, micro, multitasking etc. And you just can't beat pros on decision making. There's famous saying about this from ZerO (aka Queen): "Difference between S rank and pros are larger than between S rank and E" lol.
On January 19 2023 17:41 Poopi wrote: I think people over estimate the effort needed for ASL qualification, the scene is not as competitive as during kespa days. The elephant became old and/or entertainment streamers
exactly. if foreigners wanted to switch over such as serral, reynor, showtime, heromarine they would have no problem really. ASL isnt this mystical thing people make it out to be its just the interest in it is so low for foreigners.
Pretty much. SC2 is the faster and less unforgiving game.
BW has the bigger fan base and popularity
We already saw what happens when Flash switched to sc2, he got smacked and went back to BW. To be fair, he makes a lot more money playing BW anyways
EPT
IEM Katowice/2023
