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Waxangel
United States33339 Posts
 TY announced via his AfreecaTV channel that he had returned from military service as of January 14th.On his first stream back, TY revealed his interest in both StarCraft II and Brood War. He put more weight on StarCraft II as his primary game, but also said he wanted to play BW on the side and try to qualify for the ASL (he will be participating in the next ASL qualifier). 
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ZeroByte13
760 Posts
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dahuska
Bulgaria3 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4906 Posts
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Poopi
France12789 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
2840 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
If he is gonna qualify for ASL it's time to watch some bw again, that much is clear. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
On January 18 2023 01:08 The_Red_Viper wrote: I don't think splitting your attention is a good idea tbh, but TY is a smart guy, he should be able to allocate the effort he's going to put in either game in reasonable ways hopefully :D If he is gonna qualify for ASL it's time to watch some bw again, that much is clear. It's always time to watch some BW. Does seem like odd to try to do both. He had all that time in the military to make a choice and then didn't. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 18 2023 02:01 QOGQOG wrote: It's always time to watch some BW. Does seem like odd to try to do both. He had all that time in the military to make a choice and then didn't. I just haven't watched it in a while tbh, it becomes more interesting when you have someone to cheer for! It's a little odd, but my honest thought here is that he already wants to work on establishing a bw audience, because that seems to be the most stable way to make money in the korean landscape. While sc2 is still worthwhile to compete in for players who have the ability to do really well in tournaments. | ||
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rwala
279 Posts
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yoshi245
United States2969 Posts
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qcHanHan
Denmark71 Posts
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bulldozer06701
123 Posts
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GTR
51432 Posts
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Drfilip
Sweden590 Posts
On January 18 2023 05:33 GTR wrote: did he say if he was going to commentate GSL again? Asking the real questions. Will TY cast himself winning code S again? | ||
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lechatnoir
386 Posts
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moonsjde
48 Posts
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Elentos
55510 Posts
On January 18 2023 05:33 GTR wrote: did he say if he was going to commentate GSL again? I would imagine not. He didn't stop commentating GSL when he went to the military, he stopped commentating when JYP came back from the military. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3099 Posts
Have we ever had a player in both ASL and GSL at the same time? Even early rounds? I would imagine not, but why not? | ||
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Telephone
United States138 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
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DrunkenJedi
Germany175 Posts
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goody153
44108 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
TY bout to slay some nerds again | ||
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yoshi245
United States2969 Posts
On January 18 2023 08:52 Captain Peabody wrote: Awesome! Have we ever had a player in both ASL and GSL at the same time? Even early rounds? I would imagine not, but why not? Because nobody really plays BOTH games at the same time at a high level. Everyone is focusing their efforts on either BW or SC2 but never both. I figure TY could be the first to pull it off, if he gets into good form in SC2 he'll at least make opening rounds into GSL, then he just needs to get his form in BW good enough too. Obviously far easier said than done, but if anyone can do it, it's most likely him. | ||
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fermatlittle-theorem
3 Posts
SC2 & BW at the same time, that's so TY. Good luck and look forward to your performance. | ||
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Elentos
55510 Posts
On January 18 2023 08:52 Captain Peabody wrote: Awesome! Have we ever had a player in both ASL and GSL at the same time? Even early rounds? I would imagine not, but why not? A few people have tried (e. g. soO in 2017) but it's just hard to be competitive enough to get into both. Particularly ASL has such a large player pool, if your main focus is another game you're probably getting blasted by random amateurs in the qualifiers. | ||
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dysenterymd
1199 Posts
On January 18 2023 23:21 Elentos wrote: A few people have tried (e. g. soO in 2017) but it's just hard to be competitive enough to get into both. Particularly ASL has such a large player pool, if your main focus is another game you're probably getting blasted by random amateurs in the qualifiers. Not knowing too much about ASL, I feel like focusing mainly on BW and a little on SC2 would be the best way to qualify for both, since virtually every good player qualifies for Code S rn (of course, depending on how the format is changed for 2023 this may no longer be the case.) TY is good enough that he could maybe make it work focusing more on SC2 though | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 19 2023 00:17 dysenterymd wrote: Not knowing too much about ASL, I feel like focusing mainly on BW and a little on SC2 would be the best way to qualify for both, since virtually every good player qualifies for Code S rn (of course, depending on how the format is changed for 2023 this may no longer be the case.) TY is good enough that he could maybe make it work focusing more on SC2 though There's just more money to be made for TY in sc2 tournaments compared to bw ones. Doing well in sc2 competitively is a lot more profitable, and TY's potential to do well is very high with enough effort being put in. In bw his potential is unsure, and the gain to be the best of the best isn't as high because the environment is a lot more reliant on being a popular streamer. Imo he wants to tap into that streamer audience already in case he will fully switch when sc2 esports isn't lucrative anymore. He'll surely be part of all the 'proleague' content the korean bw scene is producing, etc. It will definitely be interesting to see how TY handles this though, an ASL qualification would be incredible! Outside of TY i always thought Rain would be able to potentially qualify for GSL if he played sc2 'on the side' still. | ||
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nostrasbeefs
29 Posts
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rwala
279 Posts
On January 19 2023 02:11 The_Red_Viper wrote: There's just more money to be made for TY in sc2 tournaments compared to bw ones. Doing well in sc2 competitively is a lot more profitable, and TY's potential to do well is very high with enough effort being put in. In bw his potential is unsure, and the gain to be the best of the best isn't as high because the environment is a lot more reliant on being a popular streamer. Imo he wants to tap into that streamer audience already in case he will fully switch when sc2 esports isn't lucrative anymore. He'll surely be part of all the 'proleague' content the korean bw scene is producing, etc. It will definitely be interesting to see how TY handles this though, an ASL qualification would be incredible! Outside of TY i always thought Rain would be able to potentially qualify for GSL if he played sc2 'on the side' still. More money in SC2 tournaments, sure, but what about streaming, etc.? Don't forget how much more popular BW is than SC2 in Korea. I think there are some pretty good reasons that Rain, Soulkey, Jaedong, etc. switched back to BW (all were winning premier tourneys in SC2, FWIW). | ||
Kinky
United States4126 Posts
On January 18 2023 05:33 GTR wrote: did he say if he was going to commentate GSL again? It'd be quite the feat if he were able to juggle casting and playing in both tournaments at the same time. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1134 Posts
On January 19 2023 08:32 rwala wrote: More money in SC2 tournaments, sure, but what about streaming, etc.? Don't forget how much more popular BW is than SC2 in Korea. I think there are some pretty good reasons that Rain, Soulkey, Jaedong, etc. switched back to BW (all were winning premier tourneys in SC2, FWIW). None of them did at the end though. In fact, wasn't Soulkey especially known for having zero fun anymore, barely putting the work in? I'm not that familiar with the ASL, but I'm pretty sure all players are listed as amateurs. Sure, they stream, but it is probably still much time-consuming to try and compete in SC2. SC2 is much more profitable - IF you can keep up with the top. If you can't, and neither of the three you mentioned could at the end, it is probably easier to try your chances with BW, where the competition is much thinner. When TY can reach later stages of GSL and have some international success, going for SC2 was a great decision. If he fails to do so, BW would probably have been a better call...but then again, starting streaming it, he already lays the foundation for a transition later. | ||
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tommey.liang
United States362 Posts
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rwala
279 Posts
On January 19 2023 10:36 Balnazza wrote: None of them did at the end though. In fact, wasn't Soulkey especially known for having zero fun anymore, barely putting the work in? I'm not that familiar with the ASL, but I'm pretty sure all players are listed as amateurs. Sure, they stream, but it is probably still much time-consuming to try and compete in SC2. SC2 is much more profitable - IF you can keep up with the top. If you can't, and neither of the three you mentioned could at the end, it is probably easier to try your chances with BW, where the competition is much thinner. When TY can reach later stages of GSL and have some international success, going for SC2 was a great decision. If he fails to do so, BW would probably have been a better call...but then again, starting streaming it, he already lays the foundation for a transition later. What do you mean "listed as amateurs"? Soulkey finished 3rd last ASL season, and Rain finished 2nd the season before. This is the official BW pro league. Both also won KSLs to take home 25K, which I'm pretty sure is more than 90% of SC2 pros have taken home in any one tournament. I won't pretend to know which financial decisions are best when factoring in streaming, sponsorships, etc., but I'm basically just assuming these folks are smart guys and know what's best for themselves. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1134 Posts
On January 19 2023 12:36 rwala wrote: What do you mean "listed as amateurs"? Soulkey finished 3rd last ASL season, and Rain finished 2nd the season before. This is the official BW pro league. Both also won KSLs to take home 25K, which I'm pretty sure is more than 90% of SC2 pros have taken home in any one tournament. I won't pretend to know which financial decisions are best when factoring in streaming, sponsorships, etc., but I'm basically just assuming these folks are smart guys and know what's best for themselves. Apologies for the "amateur" part, that was weird. I remembered that until SC:R came along, a lot of ex-pros where "amateurs" in BW, which was just a remnant from Kespa. However, if you just take the financial aspect: You are right, winning an ASL gives you a huge paycheck. But have you looked how bad it gets for the lower ranks? Of course we don't know how the payout will be this year, but just as a comparison: The first money you got in the last GSL was 3K for reaching Top 20. If you want to get that kind of money from ASL, you have top reach Top 4. And the ASL is practically your only source of tournament income and it only happens twice a year. In SC2, you have the ESL Cups, international tournaments and a mutlitude of offline tournaments, always with the chance of getting to Kattowice for the big bugs. Next ASL starts in a month, qualifiers are in one or two weeks. Think it is safe to say that TY won't make a deep-run, right? Dates for GSL are not even announced yet, so there is plenty of time to get back in the game to atleast reach the money-range. So yeah, definetly the much smarter choice to go for SC2 right now if you haven't already established a good amount of viewers and/or can be confident that you will dominate the ASL. | ||
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Loisl
21 Posts
My second thought was: Damn, I am stupid. And old. Really looking forward to seeing him play again! | ||
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fermatlittle-theorem
3 Posts
On January 19 2023 02:11 The_Red_Viper wrote: There's just more money to be made for TY in sc2 tournaments compared to bw ones. Doing well in sc2 competitively is a lot more profitable, and TY's potential to do well is very high with enough effort being put in. In bw his potential is unsure, and the gain to be the best of the best isn't as high because the environment is a lot more reliant on being a popular streamer. Imo he wants to tap into that streamer audience already in case he will fully switch when sc2 esports isn't lucrative anymore. He'll surely be part of all the 'proleague' content the korean bw scene is producing, etc. It will definitely be interesting to see how TY handles this though, an ASL qualification would be incredible! Outside of TY i always thought Rain would be able to potentially qualify for GSL if he played sc2 'on the side' still. I never doubt TY's BW pontential. The advantage is that he's the youngest progamer ever in BW history, whose ID was BaBy back then. His top ELO ranking was higher than some of today's ASL champion around 2010. The disadvantage is he left BW for more than 10 years, he needs to put lots of efforts on it to get back not to mention his ambition to continue to challenge the GSL title. Well, I'm also really interested in his performance. After all if there is anyone who can qualify both ASL and GSL at the same time now, it will be TY. | ||
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Poopi
France12789 Posts
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ggByron
24 Posts
Concerning the decisions itself, I think TY is wisely hedging his bets. SC2 is the more lucrative thing for him at the moment while Brood War is the safer option. Makes sense to test the waters just in case. Besides, he's already kinda done that. There was a period when he was a GSL player, GSL caster and, occasionally, BW streamer. He had zero issue pursuing all three of those paths simultaneously. All in all, I'm optimistic. Look forward to seeing him do it. | ||
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umelbumel
2026 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4175 Posts
On January 19 2023 17:41 Poopi wrote: I think people over estimate the effort needed for ASL qualification, the scene is not as competitive as during kespa days. The elephant became old and/or entertainment streamers no they don't it's still pretty damn hard to qualify, especially if you're unlucky with the group draw | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4175 Posts
hope he qualifies, would be nice seeing him playing a big BW tournament again  | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 19 2023 08:32 rwala wrote: More money in SC2 tournaments, sure, but what about streaming, etc.? Don't forget how much more popular BW is than SC2 in Korea. I think there are some pretty good reasons that Rain, Soulkey, Jaedong, etc. switched back to BW (all were winning premier tourneys in SC2, FWIW). That was my point. If we accept that TY wants to do both, it makes more sense to invest more effort into sc2 as a game because the tournament scene still pays pretty well and his status as a player should mean he can go for big money there. Whereas in BW the tournament scene itself isn't that relevant money wise, he doesn't have to grind the game and become one of the very best players, but rather should focus on streaming and building the connections for the almost inevitable full switch to bw streaming in the future. On January 19 2023 17:36 fermatlittle-theorem wrote: I never doubt TY's BW pontential. The advantage is that he's the youngest progamer ever in BW history, whose ID was BaBy back then. His top ELO ranking was higher than some of today's ASL champion around 2010. The disadvantage is he left BW for more than 10 years, he needs to put lots of efforts on it to get back not to mention his ambition to continue to challenge the GSL title. Well, I'm also really interested in his performance. After all if there is anyone who can qualify both ASL and GSL at the same time now, it will be TY. Oh i don't doubt him per se, i think he has the potential to be one of the best bw players right now. But as you said, it would probably take quite a bit of grinding, and that grinding is probably better invested into sc2 atm where you could potentially win prize money like this: IEM Katowice/2023 TY left the sc2 scene at the top, i think he can go right back to the top when focusing on the game. Whereas in bw the gain from being the best isn't really as high, streaming itself, building connections to all the other streamers and their projects, that kind of thing is more important than being flash 2.0. On January 19 2023 17:41 Poopi wrote: I think people over estimate the effort needed for ASL qualification, the scene is not as competitive as during kespa days. The elephant became old and/or entertainment streamers It's not as professional, no doubt. But the scene itself is quite strong, many new things to learn and adapt to compared to the kespa days, even though the mechanical prowess might not be at 100% due to the training system not being there anymore. But qualifying for ASL is certainly more difficult than qualifying for GSL, bw is just a more active scene, not even close. | ||
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Poopi
France12789 Posts
On January 19 2023 22:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: It's not as professional, no doubt. But the scene itself is quite strong, many new things to learn and adapt to compared to the kespa days, even though the mechanical prowess might not be at 100% due to the training system not being there anymore. But qualifying for ASL is certainly more difficult than qualifying for GSL, bw is just a more active scene, not even close. Yeah qualifying for ASL is far more difficult than GSL (it's kinda by design that GSL is "free" to enter for the remaining pro players), but it's not out of reach for TY imho. GSL being stretched out on so many weeks can allow one smart player like TY to practice both games, so I am pretty sure he will succeed at qualifying for ASL at least once. Can be wrong though | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 19 2023 23:24 Poopi wrote: Yeah qualifying for ASL is far more difficult than GSL (it's kinda by design that GSL is "free" to enter for the remaining pro players), but it's not out of reach for TY imho. GSL being stretched out on so many weeks can allow one smart player like TY to practice both games, so I am pretty sure he will succeed at qualifying for ASL at least once. Can be wrong though As i have not watched a lot of bw it's difficult to say, i just know that there are quite a lot of 'notable players' on the qualifier pages for ASL :D While the competitive nature is a lot different now, the scene itself is fairly active, people playing all the time, figuring new things out, playing smarter compared to the kespa days one could say. It at least seems like it would take a real effort from TY to get in shape, but who knows! Gonna be fun to follow and see how he does, i expect him to be part of some bw action outside the ASL too, like teammatches, etc. I just would assume that he'll focus a lot more on sc2, assuming the sc2 scene stays at the level it is at right now. (which isn't even confirmed yet i think?) | ||
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Waxangel
United States33339 Posts
And if the return to SC2 ends up going REALLY well, I'm sure he'll adjust his plans to try and maximize for SC2 success instead. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
More of this please (unfortunately Flash is in military) | ||
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DreamlnCode
United Kingdom77 Posts
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fermatlittle-theorem
3 Posts
On January 20 2023 02:45 Yorbon wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx0_w-hFhF4 More of this please (unfortunately Flash is in military) I remeber this was in late 2020, TY just got 2 GSL Code S champions in that year. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
On 1st try of qualifiers (Day 1 which is harder compared to Day 2, because here pros with best form sweep through) he went all way into last match where he lost to best macro protoss BeSt 1-2. On 2nd try in the very end he lost TvT to HiyA 1-2. Shame but TY showed he's no joke, force to be reckoned with by showing extremely good results for brutal qualifiers where top pros sometimes fail to qualify and he tried to qualify for a game he played professionaly last time 10 years ago just after he discharged. I'm sure if he wants to focus BW further he will qualify 100% for next ASL. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On February 14 2023 05:20 outscar wrote: Update on his ASL qualifiers: On 1st try of qualifiers (Day 1 which is harder compared to Day 2, because here pros with best form sweep through) he went all way into last match where he lost to best macro protoss BeSt 1-2. On 2nd try in the very end he lost TvT to HiyA 1-2. Shame but TY showed he's no joke, force to be reckoned with by showing extremely good results for brutal qualifiers where top pros sometimes fail to qualify and he tried to qualify for a game he played professionaly last time 10 years ago just after he discharged. I'm sure if he wants to focus BW further he will qualify 100% for next ASL. Are the matches streamed anywhere? | ||
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iRkSupperman
Norway130 Posts
The qualifiers were on January 28th/29th. VODs are only in Korean and they only show select matches: Day 1: https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/97584458 Day 2: https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/97622340 https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/97624350 BeSt's YouTube video going over his games vs TY in Day 1 qualifier: | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1599 Posts
On January 19 2023 17:41 Poopi wrote: I think people over estimate the effort needed for ASL qualification, the scene is not as competitive as during kespa days. The elephant became old and/or entertainment streamers exactly. if foreigners wanted to switch over such as serral, reynor, showtime, heromarine they would have no problem really. ASL isnt this mystical thing people make it out to be its just the interest in it is so low for foreigners. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On February 14 2023 16:11 CicadaSC wrote: exactly. if foreigners wanted to switch over such as serral, reynor, showtime, heromarine they would have no problem really. ASL isnt this mystical thing people make it out to be its just the interest in it is so low for foreigners. True, and imagine if s1mple switched to sc2, oh man oh man. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
On February 14 2023 16:11 CicadaSC wrote: exactly. if foreigners wanted to switch over such as serral, reynor, showtime, heromarine they would have no problem really. ASL isnt this mystical thing people make it out to be its just the interest in it is so low for foreigners. Disagree. ASL is most brutal league in the world, amateurs that are ranked N1 on ladder get their asses kicked on qualifiers and even if no name player makes it through he gets sweeped on ro24/32 without winning a single map vs. pros. Only exception is SoMa but he was active during post KeSPA era where SC2 transition occured and I think if KeSPA was around at 2013 he would get pro license. To make it clear: there are billion things pros know and do better, their knowledge about BW is out of the world and if you wanna have chance to beat them you need to train ONLY vs. them 24/7, ladder means NOTHING! While Serral, Reynor and other pros have slight better chance to make it through because they're young, their reflexes are better, in BW decision making is >>> compared macro, micro, multitasking etc. And you just can't beat pros on decision making. There's famous saying about this from ZerO (aka Queen): "Difference between S rank and pros are larger than between S rank and E" lol. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On February 14 2023 16:11 CicadaSC wrote: exactly. if foreigners wanted to switch over such as serral, reynor, showtime, heromarine they would have no problem really. ASL isnt this mystical thing people make it out to be its just the interest in it is so low for foreigners. Pretty much. SC2 is the faster and less unforgiving game. BW has the bigger fan base and popularity We already saw what happens when Flash switched to sc2, he got smacked and went back to BW. To be fair, he makes a lot more money playing BW anyways | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On February 15 2023 00:44 TossHeroes wrote: Pretty much. SC2 is the faster and less unforgiving game. BW has the bigger fan base and popularity We already saw what happens when Flash switched to sc2, he got smacked and went back to BW. To be fair, he makes a lot more money playing BW anyways Say sike right now | ||
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dysenterymd
1199 Posts
On February 14 2023 16:11 CicadaSC wrote: exactly. if foreigners wanted to switch over such as serral, reynor, showtime, heromarine they would have no problem really. ASL isnt this mystical thing people make it out to be its just the interest in it is so low for foreigners. Maybe, but what the Kespa shift showed is that SC2 and BW are different games and success doesn't always translate. I have no doubt that top foreigners could become quite good BW players with practice, but there would be a steep learning curve and no guarantee that they'd end up being some of the best. | ||
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iRkSupperman
Norway130 Posts
People forget that TY aka BaBy was very very very good at BW as a Kespa pro? Or atleast conveniently ignore it in order to be elitist about their game? | ||
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