On August 20 2021 14:50 dbRic1203 wrote: I m not even sure, if Bunny beating Clem would be an upset Bunny is pretty damn good this year and Clems non-vZ matchups can be a bit shakey from time to time I believe Max could beat any of his opponents on a good day. Doing the trick twice to actually advance is another Story though..
Clem won 3-0 vs HM in LB final in a very convincing way. He had some bad times 2 months ago where he wasn't able to win a single ESL Open week after he won 5 or 6 finals in a row, but now he looks to get back at his best level. He showed to beat MaxPax is not a problem for him when he plays well so, it will not be different at the DH season finals.
He is godlike in TvZ, but his TvP and TvT are quite good too. I don't think he will have to struggle to come out of his group. I can't wait for the Clem vs Special probably the 2 best foreigners terran ATM (maybe with TIME)
The reason Clem was in the LB in the first place was because Marinelord put him there - not exactly confidence-inspiring when he's in a group with 2 GSL-quality terrans. He also dropped a series to Goblin in the group stages - a protoss that didn't even make it to the playoff bracket. I think it's fair to say that his non-z matchups are a bit shakey from time to time like the person you quoted said.
All that said, I still wouldn't be surprised if Clem makes it out. He just has a tougher time without any zergs to stomp in his group.
HeroMarine and PartinG Bunny and MaxPax Dark and Time Serral and Trap
Clem has yet to prove he can be more consistent especially in the light of his series against MarineLord and Goblin, and his 0-2 in the Summer finals is still recent enough. How he bounced back from his shaky start in the playoffs doesn't completely erase that yet.
It's about time Trap takes a major tournament home, overall he is imo without a doubt the most complete player, he just has to get over that hurdle that seems to stop all protoss's from winning majors, beating a TOP TIER Zerg player in a longer series.
I mean we have to see it for what it is at this point, every top Protoss's weakest matchup is PVZ to say that is a coincidence is kind of silly. Neeb seems to have figured out a very solid way to play PvZ where he can go toe 2 toe with the zerg for most of the game without giving Zerg complete map control so hopefully he is on to something that will solve the PVZ riddle.
On August 22 2021 19:30 Drahkn wrote: It's about time Trap takes a major tournament home, overall he is imo without a doubt the most complete player, he just has to get over that hurdle that seems to stop all protoss's from winning majors, beating a TOP TIER Zerg player in a longer series.
I mean we have to see it for what it is at this point, every top Protoss's weakest matchup is PVZ to say that is a coincidence is kind of silly. Neeb seems to have figured out a very solid way to play PvZ where he can go toe 2 toe with the zerg for most of the game without giving Zerg complete map control so hopefully he is on to something that will solve the PVZ riddle.
What are you talking about with "about time"? Trap has won five premier tournaments this year, beating Reynor, Serral and Solar (a list which contains two of the last four or five world championship level tournament winners) in three of those finals.
The hurdle has very much been crossed. Given the current state of Protoss it would be almost hilarious if it hadn't been.
There seems to be a confusion indeed, premier tournament is considered superior to major tournament. There is no particular name for GSL Code S + World Championship, which is probably the tournaments the poster above was referring to… Trap won a lot of premier recently, and about Code S he reached the finals in season 2 and lost vs Dark but he did not seem to choke that much, just got outplayed.
On August 22 2021 19:30 Drahkn wrote: It's about time Trap takes a major tournament home, overall he is imo without a doubt the most complete player, he just has to get over that hurdle that seems to stop all protoss's from winning majors, beating a TOP TIER Zerg player in a longer series.
I mean we have to see it for what it is at this point, every top Protoss's weakest matchup is PVZ to say that is a coincidence is kind of silly. Neeb seems to have figured out a very solid way to play PvZ where he can go toe 2 toe with the zerg for most of the game without giving Zerg complete map control so hopefully he is on to something that will solve the PVZ riddle.
What are you talking about with "about time"? Trap has won five premier tournaments this year, beating Reynor, Serral and Solar (a list which contains two of the last four or five world championship level tournament winners) in three of those finals.
The hurdle has very much been crossed. Given the current state of Protoss it would be almost hilarious if it hadn't been.
Trap/Protoss has not won a GSL Code S and they have not won the ESL DHM World Finals, I never said the word premier I said MAJOR tournaments which means GSL Code S and ESL World Finals. Ask any sc2 pro gamer, their dream is to win either of these 2 tournaments as it has all the money and all the glory, and for good reason it is where the competition is way higher then any other tournament and each player will truly be tested to see if they belong in the top.
On August 22 2021 19:30 Drahkn wrote: It's about time Trap takes a major tournament home, overall he is imo without a doubt the most complete player, he just has to get over that hurdle that seems to stop all protoss's from winning majors, beating a TOP TIER Zerg player in a longer series.
I mean we have to see it for what it is at this point, every top Protoss's weakest matchup is PVZ to say that is a coincidence is kind of silly. Neeb seems to have figured out a very solid way to play PvZ where he can go toe 2 toe with the zerg for most of the game without giving Zerg complete map control so hopefully he is on to something that will solve the PVZ riddle.
What are you talking about with "about time"? Trap has won five premier tournaments this year, beating Reynor, Serral and Solar (a list which contains two of the last four or five world championship level tournament winners) in three of those finals.
The hurdle has very much been crossed. Given the current state of Protoss it would be almost hilarious if it hadn't been.
Trap/Protoss has not won a GSL Code S and they have not won the ESL DHM World Finals, I never said the word premier I said MAJOR tournaments which means GSL Code S and ESL World Finals. Ask any sc2 pro gamer, their dream is to win either of these 2 tournaments as it has all the money and all the glory, and for good reason it is where the competition is way higher then any other tournament and each player will truly be tested to see if they belong in the top.
On August 22 2021 19:30 Drahkn wrote: It's about time Trap takes a major tournament home, overall he is imo without a doubt the most complete player, he just has to get over that hurdle that seems to stop all protoss's from winning majors, beating a TOP TIER Zerg player in a longer series.
I mean we have to see it for what it is at this point, every top Protoss's weakest matchup is PVZ to say that is a coincidence is kind of silly. Neeb seems to have figured out a very solid way to play PvZ where he can go toe 2 toe with the zerg for most of the game without giving Zerg complete map control so hopefully he is on to something that will solve the PVZ riddle.
What are you talking about with "about time"? Trap has won five premier tournaments this year, beating Reynor, Serral and Solar (a list which contains two of the last four or five world championship level tournament winners) in three of those finals.
The hurdle has very much been crossed. Given the current state of Protoss it would be almost hilarious if it hadn't been.
Trap/Protoss has not won a GSL Code S and they have not won the ESL DHM World Finals, I never said the word premier I said MAJOR tournaments which means GSL Code S and ESL World Finals. Ask any sc2 pro gamer, their dream is to win either of these 2 tournaments as it has all the money and all the glory, and for good reason it is where the competition is way higher then any other tournament and each player will truly be tested to see if they belong in the top.
gsl is as premier as esl
GSL Code S and ESL World Finals is above every other tournament in difficulty and the prestige of winning them is way higher then any other tournament.
Other then this there are a few other tournaments each year that are still more prestigious than your regional ESL's.
The average player skill in Korea is still way higher then what you see in ESL which make some ESL tournaments less prestigious.
If you didn't know now you now, consider yourself educated
What matters is the Liquipedia terminology in that case and not somebody who has a more restrictive point of view in that topic.
Regional Premiers tournaments are still Premiers for a reason, and following that restrictive logic, then TSL 7 which is labeled a Premier should be a minor ? :eyeroll:
On August 25 2021 07:12 Philippe wrote: What matters is the Liquipedia terminology in that case and not somebody who has a more restrictive point of view in that topic.
Regional Premiers tournaments are still Premiers for a reason, and following that restrictive logic, then TSL 7 which is labeled a Premier should be a minor ? :eyeroll:
If all that matters is the Liquipedia label then winning a Dreamhack: NA and winning a Code S are equal achievements as they're both "Premier." Is that your argument? Because that's going to be a... difficult position to defend.
On August 25 2021 07:12 Philippe wrote: What matters is the Liquipedia terminology in that case and not somebody who has a more restrictive point of view in that topic.
Regional Premiers tournaments are still Premiers for a reason, and following that restrictive logic, then TSL 7 which is labeled a Premier should be a minor ? :eyeroll:
If all that matters is the Liquipedia label then winning a Dreamhack: NA and winning a Code S are equal achievements as they're both "Premier." Is that your argument? Because that's going to be a... difficult position to defend.
but it is still true. liquidpedia is the only "official" we have anything else is just an opinion
On August 25 2021 07:12 Philippe wrote: What matters is the Liquipedia terminology in that case and not somebody who has a more restrictive point of view in that topic.
Regional Premiers tournaments are still Premiers for a reason, and following that restrictive logic, then TSL 7 which is labeled a Premier should be a minor ? :eyeroll:
If all that matters is the Liquipedia label then winning a Dreamhack: NA and winning a Code S are equal achievements as they're both "Premier." Is that your argument? Because that's going to be a... difficult position to defend.
but it is still true. liquidpedia is the only "official" we have anything else is just an opinion
Rofl, that is so dumb. So when people thought that earth was flat, it was written down in books to teach to children, it was the only objective truth? Come on, someone has written it like that to Liquipedia, the tiering there has the exact same worth as someone elses opinion, except that its super duper ultra stupid and incorrect.
EPT
