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yuisaka
Australia76 Posts
Eg:At bronze league you can have auto production/auto mining/autocast/build reminder/scouting reminder etc let new people focus on how to not just to play the game. Each higher league the auto function will be less so can let players to focus on the thing they have to do at lower league plus the parts that not auto anymore. In the end at GM level everything will be the normal RTS should be just like starcraft/starcraft2. | ||
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Jealous
10359 Posts
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yuisaka
Australia76 Posts
On October 23 2020 08:13 Jealous wrote: This is a REAL TIME strategy game. It is real time strategy game you can still do so many things even most things are auto(eg:multi drops) and when league gets higher and higher the auto functions will be fewer and fewer. Also now the game starcraft2 bronze players can only do so few things they focus some things to do but will forget some things my idea is let them to remeber to do these things they forget( auto for them at lower league). | ||
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IMSupervisor
Australia138 Posts
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Chris_Havoc
United States600 Posts
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CharAznable2
26 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27272 Posts
So say auto-production but your stuff costs a little more, or takes a little longer or something, have a cooldown between cycles if you’re set to auto. This way you’ll just organically swap over when you get the grasp and want to step up a level, but it’s kind of up to you when you make the transition or not. You have less of the different games in different leagues that way. You could end up with players who are terrible at macro but are really good at micro or general strategy still being able to play up to a level too. I think at higher levels you want players to be just good all-round obviously, macro is an important part of the game, or any potential future competitive RTS imo | ||
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yuisaka
Australia76 Posts
On October 23 2020 08:42 IMSupervisor wrote: The problem with automating the game for lower level players only is that at the point where they level up and it no longer does it for them, they are likely to end up playing worse and de-ranking while they get used to the new system. This isn't going to be motivating for casual players. The automation would have to be for everyone, and the only way that would work is if the automated system isn't efficient. It would require that manual control is harder but superior and allows players to learn it when they are ready to. Keep those people in game is better than they quit the game,if is real hardcore RTS players surely they will want to improve themselves like me I only play 1 on 1 on ladder and I played almost 20 years of starcraft,which said only casual players will stay in the comfort zone(And as they play more they will be better anyway/or if them make friends in game some friendly matches will let them want to improve skills as well), starcraft2 sold millions of copies but not much people still play the game because most people cant handle the pressure and frustration if there have a way to keep them must be easier the game,you have to keep the players first then they may or may not improve themselves | ||
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yuisaka
Australia76 Posts
On October 23 2020 09:35 WombaT wrote: I think a compromise is to automate things, but make automation worse than doing it manually. So say auto-production but your stuff costs a little more, or takes a little longer or something, have a cooldown between cycles if you’re set to auto. This way you’ll just organically swap over when you get the grasp and want to step up a level, but it’s kind of up to you when you make the transition or not. Sounds like a good idea as well,ye,I mean have to give some helps to the new comer not everyone like me played 20 years of 1 on 1 in starcraft | ||
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MinesMakeWidows
21 Posts
No amount of automated ez mode game play is going to let someone in silver compete with someone in masters. | ||
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jy_9876543210
265 Posts
I suggest a simple change. Let us borrow an idea from fighting games. Let us change the key of casting spells to a sequence of key stroke. You have to type "FeedB" within 1 second to cast feedback. You have to type "PsiStorm" within 1.2 seconds to cast Psionic Storm. Otherwise it fails. We can easily adjust the balance by adjusting the number of the keystrokes, or the time limit. And imagine in a tournament, every viewer is holding their breath while the commentator is talking:"Look, player A is trying to cast Psi Storm - oh, he didn't make it in time! What a disaster! Wait- player B failed his spell, too! Player A is trying again - this time it's successful!!!" So exciting! Definitely a good mechanism we want in RTS games, making it more competitive, balanced and exciting. | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
For example, "build order packs" Instead of the game literally doing the build order for you, have it display a selected build order or the left side of the screen. It wouldn't be that different to what most peeople do just blindly following build orders, but it would make it easier for new/casual players. you would get a notification for you to do this and that. Make this building now, make this other thing now. Pro gamers could create build orders in the game and share it with other people. Then when you get to gold/plat, this feature would be unavailable on ladder. It would still be available in custom games. By this point you will have enough experience to more or less have learned build orders by memory, or experiment with build orders of your own. Another is having automatic group controls. You build a barrac it is inmediately put on a group control, and the more barracs you add they are added. Sc2 already kinda does this with warpgates, so Idk why it couldn't be done. At a certain league however you could de-activate thi s feature and personalize it, but you already learned how to do it. | ||
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BabelFish1
186 Posts
On October 23 2020 13:06 [Phantom] wrote: The game shouldn't be automated. However I think there's a couple of ideas that could work. For example, "build order packs" Instead of the game literally doing the build order for you, have it display a selected build order or the left side of the screen. It wouldn't be that different to what most peeople do just blindly following build orders, but it would make it easier for new/casual players. you would get a notification for you to do this and that. Make this building now, make this other thing now. Pro gamers could create build orders in the game and share it with other people. Then when you get to gold/plat, this feature would be unavailable on ladder. It would still be available in custom games. By this point you will have enough experience to more or less have learned build orders by memory, or experiment with build orders of your own. Another is having automatic group controls. You build a barrac it is inmediately put on a group control, and the more barracs you add they are added. Sc2 already kinda does this with warpgates, so Idk why it couldn't be done. At a certain league however you could de-activate thi s feature and personalize it, but you already learned how to do it. This here, this is GOLD. Also, include rapid cast as the default hotkey configuration. It's absolutely garbage that people have to stumble upon rapid cast when it gives such a massive micro advantage. Things like this deter people from the game before they've given it a chance. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
I wouldn't mind automation being played around in other game modes as a way of getting new players acclimated to the other mechanics of the game, but it gets way too funky and un-intuitive when ranking plays a role in what features are activated in-game. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 23 2020 07:49 yuisaka wrote: Main point is blizzard RTS is too hardcore for the people never played the game my thought is more auto function less click more time to think of how to play instead of to play at lower league. Eg:At bronze league you can have auto production/auto mining/autocast/build reminder/scouting reminder etc let new people focus on how to not just to play the game. Each higher league the auto function will be less so can let players to focus on the thing they have to do at lower league plus the parts that not auto anymore. In the end at GM level everything will be the normal RTS should be just like starcraft/starcraft2. Stepped auto functions might work in some tutorial. The core games needs to be easy to learn, hard to master. What you describe cheapens the actual game. Getting better at making workers or building depots or producing from structure is it's own reward. Training wheels on automating these tasks prepares you for some child's game (and there's tons of those on the market already) Third party tools take care of reminders. I've seen configurable alarms and custom game tools work (technically, second not truly third party). GM league should be just as automated as Silver League. You all start with the same number of workers, and it's just how you use them that has changed over time. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Just micro makes the game shallow. Just macro makes the game slow and boring. SC2 has a great balance beween the two. The one flaw in SC2 is that is too unforgiving when it comes to reaction speed on normal ladder level. It is ok for the game to require fast reflexes on pro level, but the average ladder player should not have to lose the game if he reacts half a second too late against a disruptor shot. The game should be fun and rewarding, victories should be decided by many small things adding up, not a single micro mistake making everyting good you done in the previous 15 minutes become irrelevant. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12133 Posts
On October 23 2020 13:06 [Phantom] wrote: The game shouldn't be automated. However I think there's a couple of ideas that could work. For example, "build order packs" Instead of the game literally doing the build order for you, have it display a selected build order or the left side of the screen. It wouldn't be that different to what most peeople do just blindly following build orders, but it would make it easier for new/casual players. you would get a notification for you to do this and that. Make this building now, make this other thing now. Pro gamers could create build orders in the game and share it with other people. Then when you get to gold/plat, this feature would be unavailable on ladder. It would still be available in custom games. By this point you will have enough experience to more or less have learned build orders by memory, or experiment with build orders of your own. Another is having automatic group controls. You build a barrac it is inmediately put on a group control, and the more barracs you add they are added. Sc2 already kinda does this with warpgates, so Idk why it couldn't be done. At a certain league however you could de-activate thi s feature and personalize it, but you already learned how to do it. It does for warpgate because that's currently the only production which cannot be queued and is the most punihsing in that sense. If you miss a warp in you never get it back. You can queue even injects now  If you add what you're suggesting(nothing wrong with that), then you need to make warpgates less punihsing for missing a cycle.edit> what i mean by missing and not getting back(Which applies for every strucutre  ) that there's no mechanic to avoid that. While queuing 5 marines is wrong, you can queue a marine in the half of the cycle and then go on micro rampage like Maru while you're not macroing at all because everything is queued. Protoss cannot do that with the warpgates. | ||
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112StaminaX
37 Posts
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
On October 23 2020 09:35 WombaT wrote: I think a compromise is to automate things, but make automation worse than doing it manually. So say auto-production but your stuff costs a little more, or takes a little longer or something, have a cooldown between cycles if you’re set to auto. This way you’ll just organically swap over when you get the grasp and want to step up a level, but it’s kind of up to you when you make the transition or not. You have less of the different games in different leagues that way. You could end up with players who are terrible at macro but are really good at micro or general strategy still being able to play up to a level too. I think at higher levels you want players to be just good all-round obviously, macro is an important part of the game, or any potential future competitive RTS imo I haven't considered automatic but worse features before Monk mentionned it during the Pylon show. I think an rts could be more fun for lower league player with more automation. Something like automatic unit production but there are 2-3 seconds of cooldown between each unit produced. This doesn't have any impact on pro play since they will never keep such features automated because of the built-in handicap but the game becomes more accessible. I'm in a way repeating your post so i quite agree with you. It's definetly something that should be tested. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19379 Posts
If someone decided they were ready to play competitive chess, they would start their 1v1 competition with just pawns and a king until they got to a higher level. If they wanted to play some weird form of simplified chess it would be easier but it wouldn't be competitive 1v1 chess. We do not need to make competitive 1v1 easier for lower leagues, however I do endorse other game modes that do encourage early learning with simpler mechanics. I just want to make sure we understand the distinction between competitive play and just learning to play. | ||
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