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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On October 21 2020 23:40 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 15:08 Comedy wrote:
couple of people talk about how macro is a bad thing apparently. I love brood war macro, it feels rewarding.
SC2 macro is already too dumbed down and they initially bandaided that by introducing mundane repetitive tasks that keep the player busy (creep spread, injects, mules, chrono boost). But those don't feel nearly as good as macroing a full terran 3 base mid game with 9 rax or 8 fact. Or having 9 hatcheries as zerg and overhwhelming the opponent etc. They're just reptitive boring tasks.
I kind of hope they don't shy from having a lot of macro in the game, I love macro'ing in rts games. (never liked wc3).
I feel the wc3 kind of RTS already developed into moba's. Rooting for a real macro/micro game with cool control and micro like there is in bw, not sc2. They days of BW-like macro is long gone, and things like capping hotkey groups was already old fashioned at the release. Even after playing WC3, where you could select multiple buildings, playing BW felt awful to me from a playability point of view. The same happened with hotkey groups in WC3 after playing SC2. Going backwards in terms of production and unit control is just not an option.
100%. I absolutely adore BW and WC3. Still play a little casually, and would definitely try a new RTS with similar mechanics if it came out.
I think it’s absolute craziness to think you need to replicate those restrictions now and that it won’t put off the next generation of RTS players. I guess the inference is you can’t have a real high ceiling and interesting RTS game without clunky UIs, which I just disagree with. There should be other ways to replicate what made those games great.
As a general approach I’d like to see some kind of combination of making the games easier to play, but also making the ‘hard way’ ultimately a better way.
Say you automate some elements of macroing, but it is worse over doing it manually. Maybe units build slower, cost more or whatever. Good set of training wheels to have on, but as you hit a certain level on ladder and encounter the manual macroing guys, you have to shift over to compete, but you’ve had fun learning a new game genre up to this point and feel enthused to continue.
Or being able to select all army having disadvantages vs having lots of control groups. There already are disadvantages to F2ing in SC2 already like pulling defensive units out of position and the likes.
Just spitballing and not actually suggesting automated macroing, just as an example of a concept where making a thing easier could be balanced out by making the harder method better.
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On October 21 2020 00:35 blade55555 wrote:
That would be awesome. Hard to get super excited because I remember Day9 working on an RTS a long time ago and that ended up failing and being a different game iirc. The more RTS's the better, currently we only have aoe4 to be excited about (will for me).
To be fair, the RTS Day9 was working on was terrible. I played it in Beta.
Can't judge this yet because I haven't seen it, so I'm optimistic.
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Hopefully results follow our passion and optimism. It's really hard to replicate what Blizzard built with SC.
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So Captain Destructible Rocks won't be on the RTS team, but only on parent company / business side eh?
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I just hope it doesn't go the way of Starbow, hyped by the community and quickly forgotten
Anyway, best of luck to Monk I hope the game will be amazing
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On October 21 2020 23:40 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 15:08 Comedy wrote:
couple of people talk about how macro is a bad thing apparently. I love brood war macro, it feels rewarding.
SC2 macro is already too dumbed down and they initially bandaided that by introducing mundane repetitive tasks that keep the player busy (creep spread, injects, mules, chrono boost). But those don't feel nearly as good as macroing a full terran 3 base mid game with 9 rax or 8 fact. Or having 9 hatcheries as zerg and overhwhelming the opponent etc. They're just reptitive boring tasks.
I kind of hope they don't shy from having a lot of macro in the game, I love macro'ing in rts games. (never liked wc3).
I feel the wc3 kind of RTS already developed into moba's. Rooting for a real macro/micro game with cool control and micro like there is in bw, not sc2. They days of BW-like macro is long gone, and things like capping hotkey groups was already old fashioned at the release. Even after playing WC3, where you could select multiple buildings, playing BW felt awful to me from a playability point of view. The same happened with hotkey groups in WC3 after playing SC2. Going backwards in terms of production and unit control is just not an option.
Don't you think it's a possiblity that people enjoy 'macro'ing in and of it self'?
Why do you think so many sc1/bw players really hated and couldn't get into SC2 on release?
Macro play is something easily overlooked, but feels so damn good in sc1 its more exciting than stutter stepping marines or body blocking a unit with all your peons, just depends who you ask.
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We should have a designated suggestion thread for this game.
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On October 22 2020 07:35 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 00:35 blade55555 wrote:
That would be awesome. Hard to get super excited because I remember Day9 working on an RTS a long time ago and that ended up failing and being a different game iirc. The more RTS's the better, currently we only have aoe4 to be excited about (will for me). To be fair, the RTS Day9 was working on was terrible. I played it in Beta. Can't judge this yet because I haven't seen it, so I'm optimistic.
Oh for sure, I am cautiously optimistic. I look forward to seeing the gameplay reveal, that'll make or break my hype ;D. They seem very passionate which is awesome, I will be keeping an eye on this.
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On October 21 2020 01:48 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Always nice to hear about more people getting into the RTS space. Given typical RTS timelines we'll be lucky if the game gets released by 2023 though.
Whats wrong with that? 2023 is just around the corner... 2017-2020 flew by like nothing
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Maybe for you. For me it felt like...
...3 years.
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Going to be hard to recreate that balance between micro, macro and unit interactions that Starcraft has, but I think it's possible, hope these guys knock it out of the ball park 
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EPT
