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Exciting.
SC2 was terrible at launch but got most things right eventually. Let me just outline, besides good gameplay, what I think a next-gen RTS should do to fix SC2's launch mistakes.
* A sustainable business model with no buying power for multiplayer. E.g. selling co-op commanders, skins that can be turned off, UI cosmetics, access to in-client streaming or other exclusive features for esport tournaments, some other non-competitive game modes where selling power is fine. I think selling these things will be needed to cross-subsidize multiplayer to keep the latter pure.
* Co-op at launch with a leaderboard so that it can be treated semi-competitively.
* A spectator mode that allows for in-client streaming and watching of esports, like Dota 2 has.
* A ladder system that ranks based on MMR percentile of active players for everyone, not SC2's division points nonsense.
* No campaign is needed at launch. I strongly suggest an episodic campaign. Around 25 missions, 5 missions per week over 5 weeks. I don't think a campaign should be constrained to one race, but rather the race of the mission depends on the story. A new campaign every 1-2 years. I'd personally like to see Telltale Games-style story mechanics between campaign missions.
* Unlock the full tech tree at the start of the campaign. The WC3/SC2 formula of playing a race campaign starting off weak, gathering allies, unlocking the tech tree than beating the big bad is very tired and formulaic. People know the full tech tree from multiplayer, locking is bad. Missions should unlock SC2 campaign-style power-ups instead.
* An evolving tutorial system for multiplayer that is not the campaign.
* No expansions, but evolving changes to the game to keep it fresh. The way SC2 handled it is good (a big balance revamp every year, with minor tweaks or balancing in-between), though I think every 2 years instead is probably better to allow people time to figure out the game, then a deliberate design choice to shake up the game, by adding or removing units every 2 years, like an expansion.
* Allow people to sell custom maps, parts of custom maps, and include automated matchmaking for custom maps. Perhaps people could recreate a free MOBA financed by selling their own skins for the map.
* No cartoony art style. SC2's art style is perfect: semi-realistic. I also strongly prefer a sci-fi setting, possibly with fantasy elements like Warhammer. I'd like to play a super-advanced AI race. Having a campaign, presumably about war and conflict, requires a serious tone, not an overly cartoony art style.
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On October 22 2020 00:02 paralleluniverse wrote:
* No cartoony art style. SC2's art style is perfect: semi-realistic. I also strongly prefer a sci-fi setting, possibly with fantasy elements like Warhammer. I'd like to play a super-advanced AI race. Having a campaign, presumably about war and conflict, requires a serious tone, not an overly cartoony art style.
too late, they already said theyre making something that looks like among us/fall guys because "trends"
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To me it feels like people (important people in the scene) are overreacting to this announcement, like way too much hype... I don't know, looks like a "Since SC2 has 2 years more at this level, I NEED to believe they are gonna make its succesor so I can keep playing/casting something" reaction...
Looks promising, but talking about the next great RTS when it's a company with a "low" budget and a handful of people that made great games 10-15 years ago.... Well, I'm sure they have changed, the way they work has changed, the industry has chenged, the customers (us) have changed, etc. What could be a great RTS 15 years ago doesn't have to be a masterpiece now. Also I'm sure they have WAY less money to work with than what they had when they worked in those great games...
All I say is people are reacting like if they were gonna make Starcrarft 3 or W4 or something at that supertop level. Personally, I would consider a huge success if they end up releasing something at the level of CoH 2 for example, like 8,5/10.
So putting aside all that overreaction, It's great news to have companies working on RTSs.
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On October 22 2020 01:02 kaoabo wrote:
Do you realize that all those Ex-Employees are responsible for all the bad things happen in the past?
These are mostly the LotV people, not the WoL people.
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On October 22 2020 01:04 Elmonti wrote:
To me it feels like people (important people in the scene) are overreacting to this announcement, like way too much hype... I don't know, looks like a "Since SC2 has 2 years more at this level, I NEED to believe they are gonna make its succesor so I can keep playing/casting something" reaction...
Looks promising, but talking about the next great RTS when it's a company with a "low" budget and a handful of people that made great games 10-15 years ago.... Well, I'm sure they have changed, the way they work has changed, the industry has chenged, the customers (us) have changed, etc. What could be a great RTS 15 years ago doesn't have to be a masterpiece now. Also I'm sure they have WAY less money to work with than what they had when they worked in those great games...
All I say is people are reacting like if they were gonna make Starcrarft 3 or W4 or something at that supertop level. Personally, I would consider a huge success if they end up releasing something at the level of CoH 2 for example, like 8,5/10.
So putting aside all that overreaction, It's great news to have companies working on RTSs.
The reason people are reacting like its SC3/WC4 is because that is what they are selling it as. They made starcraft 2 what it is today so i think we can trust them on this spiritual successor. Also, the bigger names in the scene like Artosis tasteless pig etc have already talked to the developers. If they have faith, I do as well.
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Excited. I probably wouldn't do more than play the campaign and muck around with some friends, but it's good to see this genre getting another release. Now I have this, and AOE4 to look forward to.
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On October 22 2020 01:48 kaoabo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2020 01:30 CicadaSC wrote:On October 22 2020 01:04 Elmonti wrote:
To me it feels like people (important people in the scene) are overreacting to this announcement, like way too much hype... I don't know, looks like a "Since SC2 has 2 years more at this level, I NEED to believe they are gonna make its succesor so I can keep playing/casting something" reaction...
Looks promising, but talking about the next great RTS when it's a company with a "low" budget and a handful of people that made great games 10-15 years ago.... Well, I'm sure they have changed, the way they work has changed, the industry has chenged, the customers (us) have changed, etc. What could be a great RTS 15 years ago doesn't have to be a masterpiece now. Also I'm sure they have WAY less money to work with than what they had when they worked in those great games...
All I say is people are reacting like if they were gonna make Starcrarft 3 or W4 or something at that supertop level. Personally, I would consider a huge success if they end up releasing something at the level of CoH 2 for example, like 8,5/10.
So putting aside all that overreaction, It's great news to have companies working on RTSs. The reason people are reacting like its SC3/WC4 is because that is what they are selling it as. They made starcraft 2 what it is today so i think we can trust them on this spiritual successor. Also, the bigger names in the scene like Artosis tasteless pig etc have already talked to the developers. If they have faith, I do as well. Faith? Its called Marketing, they are being paid. Faith in what? In "We are making the best game, TRUST US!"?
i'll assume you didn't read the last part where i mentioned artosis tasteless and pig have talked directly to the devs. Do you think they are being paid to market it? Is it wrong for the community to trust the community leaders' judgement?
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They dont even have a office yet XD
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On October 22 2020 02:05 Bluejava wrote:
They dont even have a office yet XD
they are currently working from home, like most of the world due to covid
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I really hope we can get something like a timeline for this games release on the pylon show. obviously no concrete date because of how early in development they are, but roughly how long they expect this project to take, or how long until we can see a teaser
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On October 22 2020 02:05 Bluejava wrote:
They dont even have a office yet XD
Why would they have an office?  Did you miss the main news of 2020?
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On October 22 2020 02:05 Bluejava wrote:
They dont even have a office yet XD
The plus side to that (not that I'm celebrating COVID-19), is they will have MUCH less overhead than some company sinking rent money into some overpriced commercial space in LA.
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I never see such an overhype to the point of absurd like the reactions to this announcement. They just launched the game STUDIO that will make the game. They are just hiring. Their website wasn't even working properly as it crashed during the first day. They are not even closed to launch the game which in term of game development, it may take a few years.
I wonder if they even have a core design on what the game remotely looks like. Yet, apparently Khaldor came in and requested Replay System, Observer UI and Match Making. This is like worrying about car insurance when you haven't had a driver license yet.
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United States33713 Posts
On October 22 2020 04:50 Vutalisk wrote:
I never see such an overhype to the point of absurd like the reactions to this announcement. They just launched the game STUDIO that will make the game. They are just hiring. Their website wasn't even working properly as it crashed during the first day. They are not even closed to launch the game which in term of game development, it may take a few years.
I wonder if they even have a core design on what the game remotely looks like. Yet, apparently Khaldor came in and requested Replay System, Observer UI and Match Making. This is like worrying about car insurance when you haven't had a driver license yet.
yah, but u never dreamed about how great it would be to drive ur cool car when you were 12  ?
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This has me interested, what approach will they take? Blizzard kind of took the "If you can jump through 2 fire rings while doing a perfect summersault landing on top of a shark's nose, then it's not an issue" road. Will this game take the same approach or will they be more concerned with effort of use vs effort of counter interactions?
One is more designed around statistical outliers while the other is more in line with how the average person would play and both have their own merits.
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The RTS that had/has the most potential for growth imo is Ashes of the Singularity.
It is visually attractive, has an amazing interface for full map war and very interesting unit interactions.
It is the only RTS I have played that has nullified the importance of rapid click micro while style being fairly micro intensive.
And if you watch a replay of the top players, they are astoundingly good at macro and map wide strategic choices.
If they aren't going for the responsive units of sc2 or the highly microable units of bw then I hope they strike a balance similar to Ashes - Beautiful game with a incredibly high skill ceiling, but with enough strategic and tactical choices that a slower or handicapped person can still play and win.
After sc2 and war3, I have learned to never expect anything good until it arrives. Otherwise you expect an RTS and there are creeps and hero's and stupid shit or sc2, which originally was a very boring and stupid looking game but over time and expansions became one of the greatest RTS ever.
I am impressed that they were able to launch such a successful PR campaign, 30 venture capitalist firms focused on games in the US and as they are still attracting investors, people are hyping a game from them. Great way to raise money, but most likely we won't get what we want. Investors and shareholders ruin most creative endeavors. I hope to be wrong and in time get to play a great RTS, but from where I stand, this is just a rich white man's version of a kickstarter campaign.
I would love to be wrong. I'm still shocked this PR thread is allowed to be in the sc2 section. Blizzard must love that.
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EPT
