I remember seeing some gameplay of SC2 at begining of 2007, and still the game was released 3.5 years later.
are we talking about a frostgian release in 2024?
On October 21 2020 01:55 MockHamill wrote: If too little micro it becomes too similar to Age of Empires, which although being a great game, is not as masterpiece like SC2.
Dunno man, the way AoE2 is growing makes me feel like AoE2 will be way ahead of SC2 in 1 year.
also team games in AoE are leagues ahead of team games in SC where the mode is almost non existant.
On October 21 2020 01:55 MockHamill wrote: If too little micro it becomes too similar to Age of Empires, which although being a great game, is not as masterpiece like SC2.
Dunno man, the way AoE2 is growing makes me feel like AoE2 will be way ahead of SC2 in 1 year.
also team games in AoE are leagues ahead of team games in SC where the mode is almost non existant.
probably something like that. in this video they say the game wont be ready for a while. so dont expect it any time soon! 2024 sounds plausible to me
On October 21 2020 01:55 MockHamill wrote: I hope it will be a real RTS like SC2 not a pretend RTS like WC3. SC2 has the perfect balance of macro and micro.
If too little macro it becomes shallow like WC3.
If too little micro it becomes too similar to Age of Empires, which although being a great game, is not as masterpiece like SC2.
I just see that you have no idea about AoE when you said too little micro, let me laugh at your comment lol.
I have actually played Age of Empires 1,2 and 3 online for a combined total of more than 20.000 games. Age of Empires 2 is the third best game I have ever played after SC2 and the original Civilization. I stopped playing BW after a year or so and moved on to Age of Empires 1 which I consider to be superior game to BW.
Age of Empires does have micro it the form of focus fire and getting the the right units to attack the right units, using high ground etc. But its micro is much more limited compared to SC2. In my experience Age of Empires 2 games was decided at least 80% by macro, while SC2 is more 50/50.
Also it took a few minutes before you started interacting with your opponent. Spending the first few minutes collecting sheep and hunting was fun but got repetitive after a while. SC2 has more distinct openers and you start to interact with your opponent much faster.
I even played a few games against Maimin Matty and the Sheriff who were the two best players back in the day. I lost all of them though
I would give Age of Empires II 97/100 and SC2 100/100 if I scored them.
So the big question about any new RTS game is "what are its differentiators"? Starcraft II has 10 years of extra features beyond the base game (resume from replay, co-op, the map editor, skins, arcade, etc), and any new game won't have many of those and just looks worse when competing like-for-like against Starcraft II. Games like Grey Goo failed specifically for those reasons. There are lots of ways to differentiate though--a game like CoH2 does so through attracting fans of military games and by not having a traditional RTS economy for example. Given that Frost Giant's RTS game wants to be accessible, and also reach out to the eSports side of things it'll be interesting to see which differentiators they'll choose to hook an initial community to build on.
The biggest technical questions are of course about the engine. Do they build on top of Unity/Unreal or make their own engine? Do they stick with deterministic lockstep, do something else entirely (similar to Planetary Annihilation), or some sort of hybrid? How do they design the engine to use multiple cores (maybe by being really smart about how they design an entity-component system?). I really hope they do manage to support multi-threading--it wouldn't be a true 'next-generation RTS' imo if they don't do that.
And then the big in-game question is about how they'll design the economy--I assume based on the fact that this is a Blizzard offshoot that it'll be some sort of variant on a traditional RTS economy, but there's room for experimentation even within that. Another in-game question is how they'll support user driven content. And the big out-of-game question is about what the game's monetization model will be.
a good thing we can expect from Frostgiant are hotkeys.
holy cow! all the new RTS developers think that hotkeys are not necessary, TaB don't even has hotkeys for buildings. same with a lot of management and tower defense that can be classified as RTS.
AoE2 had 2 patches this year that added hotkeys, a feature absolutely necessary for any competitive RTS.
features most rts lack: - "reconnect" all the mobas have it. - A team based spectator mode - ingame spectator mode for tournaments (valve here knows wtf2do)
monetization models can change a lot the next years. Still any popular game has made profit just with skins. the question is, will frostgiant will be popular enough?
also PvE content via dlc.
An Idea I've had for any RTS are scenarios GSG alike (paradox games) where you can play 6 hours straight, but it needs an strong AI (maybe alhpastar again) - scripted campaigns are so 1990s
On October 21 2020 01:55 MockHamill wrote: I hope it will be a real RTS like SC2 not a pretend RTS like WC3. SC2 has the perfect balance of macro and micro.
If too little macro it becomes shallow like WC3.
If too little micro it becomes too similar to Age of Empires, which although being a great game, is not as masterpiece like SC2.
From your 3 mentioned games I dont want to see much from sc2.
frost giant is the name of a company or that rts game?
On October 21 2020 03:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote: So the big question about any new RTS game is "what are its differentiators"? Starcraft II has 10 years of extra features beyond the base game (resume from replay, co-op, the map editor, skins, arcade, etc)
On October 21 2020 00:26 LoneYoShi wrote: In its "core values" bit, it mentions "main" and "natural", which are sc2-related terms, right ? It's not mainstream RTS game language ?
It could be good if they look to sc2 for inspiration !
StarCraft was the first real esports and that game had resources at specific places and maps were made for natural progress in expanding the economy. Having commentatirs and an active scene helped making standard terms and phrases. It is possible that StarCraft was the origin of these terms, but it is highly likely that SC popularized them. However, they are not unique to SC. Any RTS with resources spread in a similar way use these terms as well.
A friend of mine used the word ‘maynarding’ in an undergrad poem submission because he genuinely thought it was a ‘real’ word.
On October 21 2020 01:55 MockHamill wrote: I hope it will be a real RTS like SC2 not a pretend RTS like WC3. SC2 has the perfect balance of macro and micro.
If too little macro it becomes shallow like WC3.
If too little micro it becomes too similar to Age of Empires, which although being a great game, is not as masterpiece like SC2.
WC3 has tons of strategic depth and variety to it, it’s a lot more strategically fluid and improvisational than SC2 can be if builds and openers counter the other guy’s.
I personally prefer the mechanical rhythm of SC2’s macro cycles and multitasking, find it quite soothing but I don’t think it necessarily means harder macro = more strategic depth.
I just hope they look at BW rather than SC2 for inspiration.
A lot of sc2 people will actually never know how fun bw was to play (despite it's limitations) because of things like micro, especially muta control carried an entire zerg playerbase on it's back in terms of just how fun it was to use them.
-Will they tone down the macro compared to SC2 to focus more on engagements and unit compositions?
-How fast will the gameplay be?
-How will scouting and fog of war work?
-How many races will there be?
Where will it be set? Sci-fi? Fantasy? Historic? Near future? Right now?
So many questions!
Sc1+2 and WC3 actually did some very nice things design wise, maybe especially not making the game all about getting to some insane endgame unit, but also have endgame units worth building. I especially admire SC2 for having found clear, useful niches for every unit. I don't think there are any reasonably big pro tournaments which do not have every unit built at some point. Afaik, that is not the case even for BW, even though you can find them all in the occasional pro-game.
EPT
