Tackling #MeTooV2 on Ep.#97 of ThePylonShow ft. @ThatBronzeGirl, @NeuroZerg & @Artosis
This week's show is about a more serious topic and as such there is no code word or sponser plugs.
00:01:43 Welcome back / Show road map / Guest introductions 00:04:38 Why we are talking about this? 00:14:38 Thinking critically about everyone, even our own friends 00:25:36 When and how we should stand up / What is a good apology? 00:37:28 Good is something we do, not something we are 00:42:39 How do we start moving forward from here? 00:50:40 Be your best self / Networking correctly 01:00:30 How to communicate online effectively and respectfully 01:06:48 Story time / Keeping a respectful balance 01:13:31 Repeated offenses - offenders / How to grow ourselves and support each other 01:18:52 Fatigue in dealing with many heavy things / Recharge ourselves 01:29:28 Be excellent to each other 01:31:29 Patreon Q&A 01:32:16 What can we do to make our community safer? 01:36:56 How to be a force of safety and security amongst your peers? / Protect, support and hold each other accountable 01:40:54 What can the community do about a streamer who harasses another streamer? 01:43:17 How does the MeToo relate to StarCraft? 01:47:37 Thoughts on what has been happening? 01:51:10 Final thoughts / Wrap up / Thanks for watching
Could someone please clue me in as to what it is that happened last week prior to the Pylon Show last week? Watched the YouTube video and 10 minutes in no really has brought up and to what it is that 'happened'... I feel so lost.
On July 08 2020 06:15 MoonyD wrote: Could someone please clue me in as to what it is that happened last week prior to the Pylon Show last week? Watched the YouTube video and 10 minutes in no really has brought up and to what it is that 'happened'... I feel so lost.
On July 08 2020 06:15 MoonyD wrote: Could someone please clue me in as to what it is that happened last week prior to the Pylon Show last week? Watched the YouTube video and 10 minutes in no really has brought up and to what it is that 'happened'... I feel so lost.
Did someone get abused recently?
Not sure about Starcraft specifically, but in the past couple weeks in the gaming/eSports world, a shockingly large number of people have come forward with stories of sexual misconduct against prominent community members/commentators/players, ranging from simply poor decision making all the way up to forcible rape.
On July 08 2020 18:11 Marl wrote: SJWism kills viewership
If it means we lose the viewers forever, that don t care about those topics, I m fine with that. As that would mean the community is cleansed and going to be a safer place, once offline events are back up.
Imagine if just talking about this topic was all you needed to get rid of these sorts of people. The world would be a much safer place!
I appreciated the discussion in this episode. Overall some good points were made, and I learned something. I appreciated the recommendations on reducing these sorts of incidents.
Here is some feedback to the show runners and the community. I agree with Marl here in that SJWism kills viewership. Like, I tune in for starcraft. Not to hear some influencer or influencers talk about morals. If i wanted/needed lessons in morals, i'd probably goto church instead or read a book. Besides, why do you think its your responsibility to groom someone else's morals?(nope, i'm not defending the crapheads either, but maybe just report them to the proper authorities and be done with it instead of trying to groom random users morals over the internet who had nothing to do with the issue?) Like, it's their channel and I understand that they can use their platform for whatever they want but, you know, i'll just probably tune in less. At times I really wish the sc2 community didn't have some much in common with cults. I think you guys are heavily towing the line. It wasn't like this 10-11 years ago. My 2 cents in under 2 minutes.
i'm just anti-drama. its unneeded drama and it makes me not want to tune in. Like, 2 people do bad stuff and all the sudden the entire community needs a moral lesson via a livestream? Yeah I don't think so. Seems a bit extreme and over the top.
On July 09 2020 08:03 h20Fanatic wrote: i'm just anti-drama. its unneeded drama and it makes me not want to tune in. Like, 2 people do bad stuff and all the sudden the entire community needs a moral lesson via a livestream? Yeah I don't think so. Seems a bit extreme and over the top.
We need to have conversations about stuff like this. Otherwise harassers and abusers will be free to do whatever they want in silence.
On July 09 2020 08:03 h20Fanatic wrote: i'm just anti-drama. its unneeded drama and it makes me not want to tune in. Like, 2 people do bad stuff and all the sudden the entire community needs a moral lesson via a livestream? Yeah I don't think so. Seems a bit extreme and over the top.
It's an issue in gaming generally, hell in the world generally. It's easy to look the other way when it comes to harassment but awareness and support *is* important.
Laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone.
On July 09 2020 08:03 h20Fanatic wrote: i'm just anti-drama. its unneeded drama and it makes me not want to tune in. Like, 2 people do bad stuff and all the sudden the entire community needs a moral lesson via a livestream? Yeah I don't think so. Seems a bit extreme and over the top.
We need to have conversations about stuff like this. Otherwise harassers and abusers will be free to do whatever they want in silence.
O I don't think we do, I insist that you do not include me in whatever mission you are on, i'm not apart of it. I don't consent to your personal mission. I can only suggest maybe it is best to have those conversations with the actual offenders or just report the crime and let the proper authorities handle it? Me refusing to participate in moral discussion does not enable harassers to be free and roam to do whatever they want. I'm not responsible for someone else's actions. The people that were aware of those situations for years that did nothing about it, I suggest those are the people that you might want to speak with if you are on a personal mission. You know, the company employees that knew about the behavior and permitted the behavior to continue over a span of many years. Maybe the company should be legally held accountable for permitting a hostile work environment to exist over a span of years instead of lecturing the community on morals for something they weren't apart of and had nothing to do with?
On a side note to respond to another user here, Correlation does not imply causation. It's a select few individuals that happen to play games with other people and post on forums/use discord. It's not related to gaming it all, it's not even part of gaming culture, its as simple as a few people just doing bad crap.
Lets pretend for a moment that in your town, there are a couple of bad apples that go around stealing tires off cars. They eventually get handled. Does this mean the town's population has a problem stealing tires? No. Does this mean that the entire town has a culture problem? No. Does this mean that the town leaders need to host a 1-2 hour sermon on not stealing tires? No. Does this mean that because of 2 bad apples in the sc2 community that now the sc2 community has a culture problem? The answer again is no. It's just a few bad apples.
The following week, a band that plays regularly in your town decides to host a 1-2 hour sermon on morals against stealing tires instead of playing a regular show. Why would anybody want to attend? We just listen to their music for entertainment.
Now I get that people want to impact the world and make a difference in positive ways. I'm one of those people. But i think there are boundaries/limits. Like okay, you want to shape someone else's morals/beliefs/behaviors? Well does that person's mind belong to you, is it your property? Nope. Is it your responsibility to shape their morals or belief system? Not unless they asked you to or unless you are a preacher in a pulpit or unless they are your kids. Are you their legal guardian in any shape or form? Chances are no unless they are your kids etc. See what i'm saying? There are boundaries/limits.
There's no such thing as true escapism; the worlds problems don't disappear because you're looking for entertainment. The worlds problems affect this community like any other. Gaming in particular has a big culture problem and sc2 is a part of that. You personally may not contribute but on a community level it's important to engage with these issues as they do not go away by themselves. No one likes to feel uncomfortable. You may not feel like it's an issue much in the sc2 community and I'd tend to agree! The sc2 community is honestly pretty great in comparison to a lot of others. Still - we are not isolated from the rest of the ecosystem or the rest of the world. Harassment is a big societal issue especially for women. Know the saying "act locally, think globally"? This is that.
On July 09 2020 09:49 johnnywup wrote: There's no such thing as true escapism; the worlds problems don't disappear because you're looking for entertainment. The worlds problems affect this community like any other. Gaming in particular has a big culture problem and sc2 is a part of that. You personally may not contribute but on a community level it's important to engage with these issues as they do not go away by themselves. No one likes to feel uncomfortable. You may not feel like it's an issue much in the sc2 community and I'd tend to agree! The sc2 community is honestly pretty great in comparison to a lot of others. Still - we are not isolated from the rest of the ecosystem or the rest of the world. Harassment is a big societal issue especially for women. Know the saying "act locally, think globally"? This is that.
2 people committing crimes unrelated to starcraft or videogames does not mean the starcraft community has a culture problem. It literally just means 2 people did some bad crap. It's not a reflection of the "community" or "gaming community". Why exaggerate the situation.
To group everyone and say gaming has a culture problem is kind of nonsense and an insult to gamers. It's a few aggressors and employees who failed to keep a safe work environment. I think the company who runs the events needs to be held accountable, afterall they are responsible for maintaining a safe work environment for their employees. Where is the real accountability? Yet people think its a better idea to lecture the community for 2 hours? Makes no sense. They preaching to the wrong people lol. If people want real change, there needs to be accountability. Lecturing and blaming the sc2 community for a company's and its employees' actions of permitting a hostile work environment to exist is handling the situation extremely poorly. Way to pass the buck.
On July 09 2020 10:05 h20Fanatic wrote: 2 people committing crimes unrelated to starcraft or videogames does not mean the starcraft community has a culture problem. It literally just means 2 people did some bad crap. It's not a reflection of the "community" or "gaming community". Why exaggerate the situation.
On July 09 2020 10:05 h20Fanatic wrote: 2 people committing crimes unrelated to starcraft or videogames does not mean the starcraft community has a culture problem. It literally just means 2 people did some bad crap. It's not a reflection of the "community" or "gaming community". Why exaggerate the situation.
And that's only what has been shared publicly. More than likely, there are many more stories which are unknown to the public.
If "real accountability" is really what you value, then what are you doing to demand such accountability?
Yeah I saw that. Again, it's not a community problem, its an individual problem. A few bad apples does not equate to "the community". It's odd that community leaders would rather lecture the community than seek real accountability for a company and its employees that permitted a hostile work environment to exist within their scene for years. Why is that?
A few bad apples does not equate to "the community".
Did you actually read the stories? It should be obvious that this is more than "a few bad apples." Even *if* it were only one or two cases, the fact that the wrong-doers were able to get away with such behavior without consequence is proof that we have a larger, community-wide problem.
On July 09 2020 10:05 h20Fanatic wrote:
It's odd that community leaders would rather lecture the community than seek real accountability
You are creating a false choice between talk and action. In fact, I would argue that talking about problems is a necessary first step towards fixing them. Artosis dedicating an entire show to this topic is a step in the right direction. This is not mutually exclusive with "seek[ing] real accountability."
The fact that we are having this discussion is proof that the episode worked. If we refused to talk about anything except for Starcraft in the literal sense, then we would never get anywhere with problems such as these.
EPT
