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We understand that this topic evokes strong feelings. In the interest of maintaining a necessary and productive discussion, we will be taking a strong stance against posters that clearly do not contribute to this aim. Dishonest and bad faith arguments, victim blaming, and attacks on other users, will be strictly moderated. A post which only serves to muddy the waters and dishonestly portray the nature of assault and harassment (and corresponding accusations) is also unwelcome. |
Czech Republic12131 Posts
On June 26 2020 16:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:06 deacon.frost wrote:On June 26 2020 08:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 08:42 AttackZerg wrote:
I repeat. You came to a thread about real people talking about very serious stuff.
And you made a false accusation as a way of defending someone.
You don't get to do that and pretend you are here for the love of open discourse and the betterment of the culture. People think by indulging posters like Char, Cele, deacon, etc in pretending they are after equitable justice (they aren't) it will conclude with them having a moment of clarity they wouldn't have if they were simply shunned and forced to reflect if they wanted to be welcome in public gaming spaces. The truth as I see it is (and this isn't limited to this specific set of circumstances) is that, instead, it perpetuates the status quo. I think folks like Viper and John have it right on this one. Just to be clear though, that doesn't mean there aren't people that are genuinely learning right now. As I think puppykiller + Show Spoiler +(I do hope there's some redeeming aspect of that tag or you consider changing it lol) mentioned, a lot of us grew up in very toxic spaces and have a lot of unlearning to do (myself included). The longer/more you have these kind of tough conversations that require deep introspection and reconciling some foul ish one might have done in the past (perhaps not fully grasping the depravity for many reasons) the easier it gets to spot the people that are basically "concern trolling" vs the people that are genuinely learning why what they think is valid concern for justice and fair treatment is actually, at best, being a useful idiot for abusers looking to concern troll in defense of other abusers (or worse intentionally protecting abusers with more discretion than those in focus at the moment) You have no idea what I want, what I think and I seriously doubt you came closer to the other, but hey, let's change the people! And not by civilized discussion and arguments but by removing them from community because that's what helps and changes people mind. Everything has to be based on my view and noone elses or we kick them out! Did I understand you correctly? I'm very familiar with the underlying reasoning that leads to the series of posts you've made here. Major aspect of what this is all about is that your (and those that have articulated similar positions) perception of "civilized discussion" and expectations for a civil society are part of the problem. What I'm saying is that letting it be known that it isn't welcome in our communities is what the women that have spoken up (generally about the pervasive nature of misogyny and sexual misconduct) have expressed is what they want. I welcome and encourage you to listen to them and act accordingly. Unless you're literally a child (and a young one at that, which I admittedly don't often consider here) I'm not going to coddle or convince you to act like an adult capable of treating women (or anyone) with basic human dignity. You're either going to do it or not and if not I'm going to express my contempt as long as it's tolerated by others.
Are you the one who decides what's welcome in the communities?
Where did I say that or accepted it? Because either you've mistaken me or you missed my points by miles. Maybe it's the language barrier but it seems to me you've mistaken me for somebody else or you insert what YOU think I think which is, obviously, not what I think, accept or how I treat others. WTF?
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On June 26 2020 16:07 NeMu555 wrote:
To me it sounds like his messed up sinful thoughts were working on some sinful girls if he kept using the same things over and over again....
What the fuck does this even mean you moron? Are you blaming the girls he harassed as well?
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On June 26 2020 16:16 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:07 NeMu555 wrote:
First and foremost I want to send my support to all affected by malicious and toxic people.
It should go without saying that a ton of decisions aren't acceptable and actions should be taken as soon as possible not only because of the victims but also the sinners who will have a chance to repent sooner and fix their imperfections.
A lot has been said and everyone's voice should be heard but it sadly isn't many times.
Who is going to be the final judge and for what?
We have different laws in different countries which all should be in perfect sync with God and his son Jesus but that sadly is not the case!
When things get out of hand people go to jail for a reason!
The woman on my heart for over a year now is a respected police officer from a first world country and has had a massive sinful stalker for years who was her dear friend at one point in her life.
She not only can't do much about him legally because he lives in Romania but she is too ashamed to speak to someone else about it exactly because of her position of strength in society and just shrugs it off while not realizing how much its slowly destroying her.
On the other hand I have been the victim of false accusations by a woman and was taken in custody on the spot by police! After a long written explanation, broken heart and confused mind I was let free on the same day by the lead detective thankfully with a reminder to be careful what kind of people I hang around!
The woman accusing me actually started loving me after and we started living together while trying to fix our own problems.
As far as my knowledge and concerns go we are all sinners and I have proven that to myself as nobody I have encountered or heard about doesn't have faults except Jesus our Lord and saviour!
It's not a matter of accepting as much it is knowing as I have had to hear almost every philosopher to understand each and everyone of them still isn't perfect.
I have personally been censored and bashed out of TL community because I have spoken the truth and nothing but the truth and God is my witness!
I have repented publicly for many sins as I am no perfect human but trust me when I tell you Justice is not in your hands it is in the Lords!
That being said he has given us the power of the holy spirit and the devils and demons who we can't deal with, we incarcerate and pray for!
Repenting is a thing and must be done by all regardless of how big or small the sin is!
It doesn't necessarily have to be in public like I have done to set a good example for all but it must be from the heart!
I cannot comment on all the tragic stories I have heard as I do not know either side and can only sympathize with the victims as this amongst other things shouldn't be present in our day and age!
I couldn't bare to fully read some of the things they went through and its only natural that we men feel even more protective of them.
I don't want to forget and mention all the males it happens to as well as I have also had an instance where a gay older man tried to see how I was feeling about the subject! Luckily for me at that point I had dealt with a lot of abusive people so I even most likely overreacted afterwords verbally while in conversation with his daughter.
Its only evident some people should be in jail or mental institutions and not only stopped from working here or there!
I advise for the people who felt their loved ones must take legal actions against predators to support them fully and be there morally every second as going through a process like that isn't easy.
Last but not least I feel obliged to speak on Rapids case as I have grown to love and know him from our casting crew.
I absolutely do not condone any of his behaviour towards females in the instances mentioned but I also don't condone a lot of my personal behaviour towards females in past years although I have had good intentions in my mind....
I might have slapped him in my atheist days if I overheard him making a woman uncomfortable but that would make me no less of a sinner.
How much is too much and are we aware of the perfect legal terms that exist for every action?
From the testimonies I've read on his case some of the girls owned him in their response and he was the laughing stalk which was known by many people it seems.
Where are all the teams and members and friends that might have known then to help support and speak out more if public shaming wasn't enough?
To me it sounds like his messed up sinful thoughts were working on some sinful girls if he kept using the same things over and over again....
Its sad it really is but is it rape? Is it abuse of power if it was well known and spoken by many people?
Did he not apologize or leave it alone when he felt you aren't on the same vibe? Did he touch you with no consent sexually?
How many toxic comments complimented with cursing words do we have to keep listening to here?
Do your loved ones and friends not read this forum or do we feel ok with certain types of behaviour only.
People commit suicide over internet torture and judging so be careful how hard you hit the hammer and on who.
We are all far from perfect but we all MUST change in the name of good and God.
Morals and laws and spirituality are built on God and nothing else!
I hope everyone learns their lesson and everyone finds peace.
#JusticeForAll
#JesusIsTheWay
#MercyGod
#Staysafe
Can we please leave religion out of this? At least here in Germany the katholic church has a pretty long and bad history of child abuse. Also not everyone here is christian.
Oh, no actually we can not. I'm sad not everyone is a Christian but God has given you that choice, so have we!
Pinpointing black sheep from certain religions would be like me saying all non Christians or Atheists like Hitler are your ancestors and they tried to wreck the world, not only Germany!
As I said we are all sinners and just being a Christian doesn't make you perfect, actually the exact opposite, you are scrutinized more for trying to be perfect!
I personally haven't been to Church in a long time and I talk about my faith more than linking myself to any particular Christian society or teaching.
I have tried and keep trying to gather the best of all of them as I'm fully convinced we are in consensus with the truth, we just don't know how to present it perfectly.
You need to learn and remind yourself about the Lord everyday.
I try to pray atleast 2-3 times a day and keep him with me every second of the day otherwise I totally lose my righteous path!
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On June 26 2020 16:34 NeMu555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:16 dbRic1203 wrote:On June 26 2020 16:07 NeMu555 wrote:
First and foremost I want to send my support to all affected by malicious and toxic people.
It should go without saying that a ton of decisions aren't acceptable and actions should be taken as soon as possible not only because of the victims but also the sinners who will have a chance to repent sooner and fix their imperfections.
A lot has been said and everyone's voice should be heard but it sadly isn't many times.
Who is going to be the final judge and for what?
We have different laws in different countries which all should be in perfect sync with God and his son Jesus but that sadly is not the case!
When things get out of hand people go to jail for a reason!
The woman on my heart for over a year now is a respected police officer from a first world country and has had a massive sinful stalker for years who was her dear friend at one point in her life.
She not only can't do much about him legally because he lives in Romania but she is too ashamed to speak to someone else about it exactly because of her position of strength in society and just shrugs it off while not realizing how much its slowly destroying her.
On the other hand I have been the victim of false accusations by a woman and was taken in custody on the spot by police! After a long written explanation, broken heart and confused mind I was let free on the same day by the lead detective thankfully with a reminder to be careful what kind of people I hang around!
The woman accusing me actually started loving me after and we started living together while trying to fix our own problems.
As far as my knowledge and concerns go we are all sinners and I have proven that to myself as nobody I have encountered or heard about doesn't have faults except Jesus our Lord and saviour!
It's not a matter of accepting as much it is knowing as I have had to hear almost every philosopher to understand each and everyone of them still isn't perfect.
I have personally been censored and bashed out of TL community because I have spoken the truth and nothing but the truth and God is my witness!
I have repented publicly for many sins as I am no perfect human but trust me when I tell you Justice is not in your hands it is in the Lords!
That being said he has given us the power of the holy spirit and the devils and demons who we can't deal with, we incarcerate and pray for!
Repenting is a thing and must be done by all regardless of how big or small the sin is!
It doesn't necessarily have to be in public like I have done to set a good example for all but it must be from the heart!
I cannot comment on all the tragic stories I have heard as I do not know either side and can only sympathize with the victims as this amongst other things shouldn't be present in our day and age!
I couldn't bare to fully read some of the things they went through and its only natural that we men feel even more protective of them.
I don't want to forget and mention all the males it happens to as well as I have also had an instance where a gay older man tried to see how I was feeling about the subject! Luckily for me at that point I had dealt with a lot of abusive people so I even most likely overreacted afterwords verbally while in conversation with his daughter.
Its only evident some people should be in jail or mental institutions and not only stopped from working here or there!
I advise for the people who felt their loved ones must take legal actions against predators to support them fully and be there morally every second as going through a process like that isn't easy.
Last but not least I feel obliged to speak on Rapids case as I have grown to love and know him from our casting crew.
I absolutely do not condone any of his behaviour towards females in the instances mentioned but I also don't condone a lot of my personal behaviour towards females in past years although I have had good intentions in my mind....
I might have slapped him in my atheist days if I overheard him making a woman uncomfortable but that would make me no less of a sinner.
How much is too much and are we aware of the perfect legal terms that exist for every action?
From the testimonies I've read on his case some of the girls owned him in their response and he was the laughing stalk which was known by many people it seems.
Where are all the teams and members and friends that might have known then to help support and speak out more if public shaming wasn't enough?
To me it sounds like his messed up sinful thoughts were working on some sinful girls if he kept using the same things over and over again....
Its sad it really is but is it rape? Is it abuse of power if it was well known and spoken by many people?
Did he not apologize or leave it alone when he felt you aren't on the same vibe? Did he touch you with no consent sexually?
How many toxic comments complimented with cursing words do we have to keep listening to here?
Do your loved ones and friends not read this forum or do we feel ok with certain types of behaviour only.
People commit suicide over internet torture and judging so be careful how hard you hit the hammer and on who.
We are all far from perfect but we all MUST change in the name of good and God.
Morals and laws and spirituality are built on God and nothing else!
I hope everyone learns their lesson and everyone finds peace.
#JusticeForAll
#JesusIsTheWay
#MercyGod
#Staysafe
Can we please leave religion out of this? At least here in Germany the katholic church has a pretty long and bad history of child abuse. Also not everyone here is christian. Oh, no actually we can not. I'm sad not everyone is a Christian but God has given you that choice, so have we! Pinpointing black sheep from certain religions would be like me saying all non Christians or Atheists like Hitler are your ancestors and they tried to wreck the world, not only Germany! As I said we are all sinners and just being a Christian doesn't make you perfect, actually the exact opposite, you are scrutinized more for trying to be perfect! I personally haven't been to Church in a long time and I talk about my faith more than linking myself to any particular Christian society or teaching. I have tried and keep trying to gather the best of all of them as I'm fully convinced we are in consensus with the truth, we just don't know how to present it perfectly. You need to learn and remind yourself about the Lord everyday. I try to pray atleast 2-3 times a day and keep him with me every second of the day with me otherwise I totally lose my righteous path!
Is it wrong for me to ask mods to delete these religious posts? I don't care, please someone delete these religious posts.
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On June 26 2020 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 16:06 deacon.frost wrote:On June 26 2020 08:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 08:42 AttackZerg wrote:
I repeat. You came to a thread about real people talking about very serious stuff.
And you made a false accusation as a way of defending someone.
You don't get to do that and pretend you are here for the love of open discourse and the betterment of the culture. People think by indulging posters like Char, Cele, deacon, etc in pretending they are after equitable justice (they aren't) it will conclude with them having a moment of clarity they wouldn't have if they were simply shunned and forced to reflect if they wanted to be welcome in public gaming spaces. The truth as I see it is (and this isn't limited to this specific set of circumstances) is that, instead, it perpetuates the status quo. I think folks like Viper and John have it right on this one. Just to be clear though, that doesn't mean there aren't people that are genuinely learning right now. As I think puppykiller + Show Spoiler +(I do hope there's some redeeming aspect of that tag or you consider changing it lol) mentioned, a lot of us grew up in very toxic spaces and have a lot of unlearning to do (myself included). The longer/more you have these kind of tough conversations that require deep introspection and reconciling some foul ish one might have done in the past (perhaps not fully grasping the depravity for many reasons) the easier it gets to spot the people that are basically "concern trolling" vs the people that are genuinely learning why what they think is valid concern for justice and fair treatment is actually, at best, being a useful idiot for abusers looking to concern troll in defense of other abusers (or worse intentionally protecting abusers with more discretion than those in focus at the moment) You have no idea what I want, what I think and I seriously doubt you came closer to the other, but hey, let's change the people! And not by civilized discussion and arguments but by removing them from community because that's what helps and changes people mind. Everything has to be based on my view and noone elses or we kick them out! Did I understand you correctly? I'm very familiar with the underlying reasoning that leads to the series of posts you've made here. Major aspect of what this is all about is that your (and those that have articulated similar positions) perception of "civilized discussion" and expectations for a civil society are part of the problem. What I'm saying is that letting it be known that it isn't welcome in our communities is what the women that have spoken up (generally about the pervasive nature of misogyny and sexual misconduct) have expressed is what they want. I welcome and encourage you to listen to them and act accordingly. Unless you're literally a child (and a young one at that, which I admittedly don't often consider here) I'm not going to coddle or convince you to act like an adult capable of treating women (or anyone) with basic human dignity. You're either going to do it or not and if not I'm going to express my contempt as long as it's tolerated by others. Are you the one who decides what's welcome in the communities? + Show Spoiler +Where did I say that or accepted it? Because either you've mistaken me or you missed my points by miles. Maybe it's the language barrier but it seems to me you've mistaken me for somebody else or you insert what YOU think I think which is, obviously, not what I think, accept or how I treat others. WTF?
I speak my part, but I'm only one voice. Other's have shared their part as well. But my opinion is that the community is better with more Red_Vipers and John's and less yous until you sound more like them. I don't know you, so I care about you as much as any other stranger, which is to say I love (in the Freirean sense) you. What I hope we learn from this moment, is that the views you've espoused aren't welcome, but you are if you can disentangle the two.
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On June 26 2020 16:34 NeMu555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:16 dbRic1203 wrote:On June 26 2020 16:07 NeMu555 wrote:
First and foremost I want to send my support to all affected by malicious and toxic people.
It should go without saying that a ton of decisions aren't acceptable and actions should be taken as soon as possible not only because of the victims but also the sinners who will have a chance to repent sooner and fix their imperfections.
A lot has been said and everyone's voice should be heard but it sadly isn't many times.
Who is going to be the final judge and for what?
We have different laws in different countries which all should be in perfect sync with God and his son Jesus but that sadly is not the case!
When things get out of hand people go to jail for a reason!
The woman on my heart for over a year now is a respected police officer from a first world country and has had a massive sinful stalker for years who was her dear friend at one point in her life.
She not only can't do much about him legally because he lives in Romania but she is too ashamed to speak to someone else about it exactly because of her position of strength in society and just shrugs it off while not realizing how much its slowly destroying her.
On the other hand I have been the victim of false accusations by a woman and was taken in custody on the spot by police! After a long written explanation, broken heart and confused mind I was let free on the same day by the lead detective thankfully with a reminder to be careful what kind of people I hang around!
The woman accusing me actually started loving me after and we started living together while trying to fix our own problems.
As far as my knowledge and concerns go we are all sinners and I have proven that to myself as nobody I have encountered or heard about doesn't have faults except Jesus our Lord and saviour!
It's not a matter of accepting as much it is knowing as I have had to hear almost every philosopher to understand each and everyone of them still isn't perfect.
I have personally been censored and bashed out of TL community because I have spoken the truth and nothing but the truth and God is my witness!
I have repented publicly for many sins as I am no perfect human but trust me when I tell you Justice is not in your hands it is in the Lords!
That being said he has given us the power of the holy spirit and the devils and demons who we can't deal with, we incarcerate and pray for!
Repenting is a thing and must be done by all regardless of how big or small the sin is!
It doesn't necessarily have to be in public like I have done to set a good example for all but it must be from the heart!
I cannot comment on all the tragic stories I have heard as I do not know either side and can only sympathize with the victims as this amongst other things shouldn't be present in our day and age!
I couldn't bare to fully read some of the things they went through and its only natural that we men feel even more protective of them.
I don't want to forget and mention all the males it happens to as well as I have also had an instance where a gay older man tried to see how I was feeling about the subject! Luckily for me at that point I had dealt with a lot of abusive people so I even most likely overreacted afterwords verbally while in conversation with his daughter.
Its only evident some people should be in jail or mental institutions and not only stopped from working here or there!
I advise for the people who felt their loved ones must take legal actions against predators to support them fully and be there morally every second as going through a process like that isn't easy.
Last but not least I feel obliged to speak on Rapids case as I have grown to love and know him from our casting crew.
I absolutely do not condone any of his behaviour towards females in the instances mentioned but I also don't condone a lot of my personal behaviour towards females in past years although I have had good intentions in my mind....
I might have slapped him in my atheist days if I overheard him making a woman uncomfortable but that would make me no less of a sinner.
How much is too much and are we aware of the perfect legal terms that exist for every action?
From the testimonies I've read on his case some of the girls owned him in their response and he was the laughing stalk which was known by many people it seems.
Where are all the teams and members and friends that might have known then to help support and speak out more if public shaming wasn't enough?
To me it sounds like his messed up sinful thoughts were working on some sinful girls if he kept using the same things over and over again....
Its sad it really is but is it rape? Is it abuse of power if it was well known and spoken by many people?
Did he not apologize or leave it alone when he felt you aren't on the same vibe? Did he touch you with no consent sexually?
How many toxic comments complimented with cursing words do we have to keep listening to here?
Do your loved ones and friends not read this forum or do we feel ok with certain types of behaviour only.
People commit suicide over internet torture and judging so be careful how hard you hit the hammer and on who.
We are all far from perfect but we all MUST change in the name of good and God.
Morals and laws and spirituality are built on God and nothing else!
I hope everyone learns their lesson and everyone finds peace.
#JusticeForAll
#JesusIsTheWay
#MercyGod
#Staysafe
Can we please leave religion out of this? At least here in Germany the katholic church has a pretty long and bad history of child abuse. Also not everyone here is christian. Oh, no actually we can not. I'm sad not everyone is a Christian but God has given you that choice, so have we! Pinpointing black sheep from certain religions would be like me saying all non Christians or Atheists like Hitler are your ancestors and they tried to wreck the world, not only Germany! As I said we are all sinners and just being a Christian doesn't make you perfect, actually the exact opposite, you are scrutinized more for trying to be perfect! I personally haven't been to Church in a long time and I talk about my faith more than linking myself to any particular Christian society or teaching. I have tried and keep trying to gather the best of all of them as I'm fully convinced we are in consensus with the truth, we just don't know how to present it perfectly. You need to learn and remind yourself about the Lord everyday. I try to pray atleast 2-3 times a day and keep him with me every second of the day otherwise I totally lose my righteous path!
I realize arguing about this is pretty far off topic.
But I just want to say that in the name of God, no matter wich one, a lot of people have done a lot of realy bad things. It happens in all religions alike.
I realize a lot of the times the religion is instrumentalized by people, but people following that religion just make themselves more vulnerable to manipulation.
I don t care how often you pray. You can do that as often as you want.
But this has nothing to do with that. We are here to help victims and better our community. That change has to come from us. All of us. Just naming people Sinners and hoping for some God to help is not going to fix anything.
While you made some valid points, all that religion part is just mudding the water here
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On June 26 2020 16:38 vyzion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:34 NeMu555 wrote:On June 26 2020 16:16 dbRic1203 wrote:On June 26 2020 16:07 NeMu555 wrote:
First and foremost I want to send my support to all affected by malicious and toxic people.
It should go without saying that a ton of decisions aren't acceptable and actions should be taken as soon as possible not only because of the victims but also the sinners who will have a chance to repent sooner and fix their imperfections.
A lot has been said and everyone's voice should be heard but it sadly isn't many times.
Who is going to be the final judge and for what?
We have different laws in different countries which all should be in perfect sync with God and his son Jesus but that sadly is not the case!
When things get out of hand people go to jail for a reason!
The woman on my heart for over a year now is a respected police officer from a first world country and has had a massive sinful stalker for years who was her dear friend at one point in her life.
She not only can't do much about him legally because he lives in Romania but she is too ashamed to speak to someone else about it exactly because of her position of strength in society and just shrugs it off while not realizing how much its slowly destroying her.
On the other hand I have been the victim of false accusations by a woman and was taken in custody on the spot by police! After a long written explanation, broken heart and confused mind I was let free on the same day by the lead detective thankfully with a reminder to be careful what kind of people I hang around!
The woman accusing me actually started loving me after and we started living together while trying to fix our own problems.
As far as my knowledge and concerns go we are all sinners and I have proven that to myself as nobody I have encountered or heard about doesn't have faults except Jesus our Lord and saviour!
It's not a matter of accepting as much it is knowing as I have had to hear almost every philosopher to understand each and everyone of them still isn't perfect.
I have personally been censored and bashed out of TL community because I have spoken the truth and nothing but the truth and God is my witness!
I have repented publicly for many sins as I am no perfect human but trust me when I tell you Justice is not in your hands it is in the Lords!
That being said he has given us the power of the holy spirit and the devils and demons who we can't deal with, we incarcerate and pray for!
Repenting is a thing and must be done by all regardless of how big or small the sin is!
It doesn't necessarily have to be in public like I have done to set a good example for all but it must be from the heart!
I cannot comment on all the tragic stories I have heard as I do not know either side and can only sympathize with the victims as this amongst other things shouldn't be present in our day and age!
I couldn't bare to fully read some of the things they went through and its only natural that we men feel even more protective of them.
I don't want to forget and mention all the males it happens to as well as I have also had an instance where a gay older man tried to see how I was feeling about the subject! Luckily for me at that point I had dealt with a lot of abusive people so I even most likely overreacted afterwords verbally while in conversation with his daughter.
Its only evident some people should be in jail or mental institutions and not only stopped from working here or there!
I advise for the people who felt their loved ones must take legal actions against predators to support them fully and be there morally every second as going through a process like that isn't easy.
Last but not least I feel obliged to speak on Rapids case as I have grown to love and know him from our casting crew.
I absolutely do not condone any of his behaviour towards females in the instances mentioned but I also don't condone a lot of my personal behaviour towards females in past years although I have had good intentions in my mind....
I might have slapped him in my atheist days if I overheard him making a woman uncomfortable but that would make me no less of a sinner.
How much is too much and are we aware of the perfect legal terms that exist for every action?
From the testimonies I've read on his case some of the girls owned him in their response and he was the laughing stalk which was known by many people it seems.
Where are all the teams and members and friends that might have known then to help support and speak out more if public shaming wasn't enough?
To me it sounds like his messed up sinful thoughts were working on some sinful girls if he kept using the same things over and over again....
Its sad it really is but is it rape? Is it abuse of power if it was well known and spoken by many people?
Did he not apologize or leave it alone when he felt you aren't on the same vibe? Did he touch you with no consent sexually?
How many toxic comments complimented with cursing words do we have to keep listening to here?
Do your loved ones and friends not read this forum or do we feel ok with certain types of behaviour only.
People commit suicide over internet torture and judging so be careful how hard you hit the hammer and on who.
We are all far from perfect but we all MUST change in the name of good and God.
Morals and laws and spirituality are built on God and nothing else!
I hope everyone learns their lesson and everyone finds peace.
#JusticeForAll
#JesusIsTheWay
#MercyGod
#Staysafe
Can we please leave religion out of this? At least here in Germany the katholic church has a pretty long and bad history of child abuse. Also not everyone here is christian. Oh, no actually we can not. I'm sad not everyone is a Christian but God has given you that choice, so have we! Pinpointing black sheep from certain religions would be like me saying all non Christians or Atheists like Hitler are your ancestors and they tried to wreck the world, not only Germany! As I said we are all sinners and just being a Christian doesn't make you perfect, actually the exact opposite, you are scrutinized more for trying to be perfect! I personally haven't been to Church in a long time and I talk about my faith more than linking myself to any particular Christian society or teaching. I have tried and keep trying to gather the best of all of them as I'm fully convinced we are in consensus with the truth, we just don't know how to present it perfectly. You need to learn and remind yourself about the Lord everyday. I try to pray atleast 2-3 times a day and keep him with me every second of the day with me otherwise I totally lose my righteous path! Is it wrong for me to ask mods to delete these religious posts? I don't care, please someone delete these religious posts.
IRL I can't stand these guys but on TL its actually pretty entertaining.
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On June 26 2020 16:38 vyzion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:34 NeMu555 wrote:On June 26 2020 16:16 dbRic1203 wrote:On June 26 2020 16:07 NeMu555 wrote:
First and foremost I want to send my support to all affected by malicious and toxic people.
It should go without saying that a ton of decisions aren't acceptable and actions should be taken as soon as possible not only because of the victims but also the sinners who will have a chance to repent sooner and fix their imperfections.
A lot has been said and everyone's voice should be heard but it sadly isn't many times.
Who is going to be the final judge and for what?
We have different laws in different countries which all should be in perfect sync with God and his son Jesus but that sadly is not the case!
When things get out of hand people go to jail for a reason!
The woman on my heart for over a year now is a respected police officer from a first world country and has had a massive sinful stalker for years who was her dear friend at one point in her life.
She not only can't do much about him legally because he lives in Romania but she is too ashamed to speak to someone else about it exactly because of her position of strength in society and just shrugs it off while not realizing how much its slowly destroying her.
On the other hand I have been the victim of false accusations by a woman and was taken in custody on the spot by police! After a long written explanation, broken heart and confused mind I was let free on the same day by the lead detective thankfully with a reminder to be careful what kind of people I hang around!
The woman accusing me actually started loving me after and we started living together while trying to fix our own problems.
As far as my knowledge and concerns go we are all sinners and I have proven that to myself as nobody I have encountered or heard about doesn't have faults except Jesus our Lord and saviour!
It's not a matter of accepting as much it is knowing as I have had to hear almost every philosopher to understand each and everyone of them still isn't perfect.
I have personally been censored and bashed out of TL community because I have spoken the truth and nothing but the truth and God is my witness!
I have repented publicly for many sins as I am no perfect human but trust me when I tell you Justice is not in your hands it is in the Lords!
That being said he has given us the power of the holy spirit and the devils and demons who we can't deal with, we incarcerate and pray for!
Repenting is a thing and must be done by all regardless of how big or small the sin is!
It doesn't necessarily have to be in public like I have done to set a good example for all but it must be from the heart!
I cannot comment on all the tragic stories I have heard as I do not know either side and can only sympathize with the victims as this amongst other things shouldn't be present in our day and age!
I couldn't bare to fully read some of the things they went through and its only natural that we men feel even more protective of them.
I don't want to forget and mention all the males it happens to as well as I have also had an instance where a gay older man tried to see how I was feeling about the subject! Luckily for me at that point I had dealt with a lot of abusive people so I even most likely overreacted afterwords verbally while in conversation with his daughter.
Its only evident some people should be in jail or mental institutions and not only stopped from working here or there!
I advise for the people who felt their loved ones must take legal actions against predators to support them fully and be there morally every second as going through a process like that isn't easy.
Last but not least I feel obliged to speak on Rapids case as I have grown to love and know him from our casting crew.
I absolutely do not condone any of his behaviour towards females in the instances mentioned but I also don't condone a lot of my personal behaviour towards females in past years although I have had good intentions in my mind....
I might have slapped him in my atheist days if I overheard him making a woman uncomfortable but that would make me no less of a sinner.
How much is too much and are we aware of the perfect legal terms that exist for every action?
From the testimonies I've read on his case some of the girls owned him in their response and he was the laughing stalk which was known by many people it seems.
Where are all the teams and members and friends that might have known then to help support and speak out more if public shaming wasn't enough?
To me it sounds like his messed up sinful thoughts were working on some sinful girls if he kept using the same things over and over again....
Its sad it really is but is it rape? Is it abuse of power if it was well known and spoken by many people?
Did he not apologize or leave it alone when he felt you aren't on the same vibe? Did he touch you with no consent sexually?
How many toxic comments complimented with cursing words do we have to keep listening to here?
Do your loved ones and friends not read this forum or do we feel ok with certain types of behaviour only.
People commit suicide over internet torture and judging so be careful how hard you hit the hammer and on who.
We are all far from perfect but we all MUST change in the name of good and God.
Morals and laws and spirituality are built on God and nothing else!
I hope everyone learns their lesson and everyone finds peace.
#JusticeForAll
#JesusIsTheWay
#MercyGod
#Staysafe
Can we please leave religion out of this? At least here in Germany the katholic church has a pretty long and bad history of child abuse. Also not everyone here is christian. Oh, no actually we can not. I'm sad not everyone is a Christian but God has given you that choice, so have we! Pinpointing black sheep from certain religions would be like me saying all non Christians or Atheists like Hitler are your ancestors and they tried to wreck the world, not only Germany! As I said we are all sinners and just being a Christian doesn't make you perfect, actually the exact opposite, you are scrutinized more for trying to be perfect! I personally haven't been to Church in a long time and I talk about my faith more than linking myself to any particular Christian society or teaching. I have tried and keep trying to gather the best of all of them as I'm fully convinced we are in consensus with the truth, we just don't know how to present it perfectly. You need to learn and remind yourself about the Lord everyday. I try to pray atleast 2-3 times a day and keep him with me every second of the day with me otherwise I totally lose my righteous path! Is it wrong for me to ask mods to delete these religious posts? I don't care, please someone delete these religious posts.
why?
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Zurich15366 Posts
Yeah but it's derailing. Please leave this discussion of religion out of this thread.
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I hope "cultural norms" still include due process...
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Czech Republic12131 Posts
On June 26 2020 16:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:On June 26 2020 16:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 16:06 deacon.frost wrote:On June 26 2020 08:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 08:42 AttackZerg wrote:
I repeat. You came to a thread about real people talking about very serious stuff.
And you made a false accusation as a way of defending someone.
You don't get to do that and pretend you are here for the love of open discourse and the betterment of the culture. People think by indulging posters like Char, Cele, deacon, etc in pretending they are after equitable justice (they aren't) it will conclude with them having a moment of clarity they wouldn't have if they were simply shunned and forced to reflect if they wanted to be welcome in public gaming spaces. The truth as I see it is (and this isn't limited to this specific set of circumstances) is that, instead, it perpetuates the status quo. I think folks like Viper and John have it right on this one. Just to be clear though, that doesn't mean there aren't people that are genuinely learning right now. As I think puppykiller + Show Spoiler +(I do hope there's some redeeming aspect of that tag or you consider changing it lol) mentioned, a lot of us grew up in very toxic spaces and have a lot of unlearning to do (myself included). The longer/more you have these kind of tough conversations that require deep introspection and reconciling some foul ish one might have done in the past (perhaps not fully grasping the depravity for many reasons) the easier it gets to spot the people that are basically "concern trolling" vs the people that are genuinely learning why what they think is valid concern for justice and fair treatment is actually, at best, being a useful idiot for abusers looking to concern troll in defense of other abusers (or worse intentionally protecting abusers with more discretion than those in focus at the moment) You have no idea what I want, what I think and I seriously doubt you came closer to the other, but hey, let's change the people! And not by civilized discussion and arguments but by removing them from community because that's what helps and changes people mind. Everything has to be based on my view and noone elses or we kick them out! Did I understand you correctly? I'm very familiar with the underlying reasoning that leads to the series of posts you've made here. Major aspect of what this is all about is that your (and those that have articulated similar positions) perception of "civilized discussion" and expectations for a civil society are part of the problem. What I'm saying is that letting it be known that it isn't welcome in our communities is what the women that have spoken up (generally about the pervasive nature of misogyny and sexual misconduct) have expressed is what they want. I welcome and encourage you to listen to them and act accordingly. Unless you're literally a child (and a young one at that, which I admittedly don't often consider here) I'm not going to coddle or convince you to act like an adult capable of treating women (or anyone) with basic human dignity. You're either going to do it or not and if not I'm going to express my contempt as long as it's tolerated by others. Are you the one who decides what's welcome in the communities? I speak my part, but I'm only one voice. Other's have shared their part as well. But my opinion is that the community is better with more Red_Vipers and John's and less yous until you sound more like them. I don't know you, so I care about you as much as any other stranger, which is to say I love (in the Freirean sense) you. What I hope we learn from this moment, is that the views you've espoused aren't welcome, but you are if you can disentangle the two.
what exact views are yout talking about and why you edit the quote and ignore the 2nd part of the post?
My views on the fact that accused people should have some way of defense? That people should not judge others hastily and have some patience? Or what exactly? Quote the things you have issues with, otherwise you're just suppresing voices you don't like. For some reason you think what I think which is not what I think.
I defended mostly the underlined part, so quote me, without the edits, please.
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On June 26 2020 17:13 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:38 vyzion wrote:On June 26 2020 16:34 NeMu555 wrote:On June 26 2020 16:16 dbRic1203 wrote:On June 26 2020 16:07 NeMu555 wrote:
First and foremost I want to send my support to all affected by malicious and toxic people.
It should go without saying that a ton of decisions aren't acceptable and actions should be taken as soon as possible not only because of the victims but also the sinners who will have a chance to repent sooner and fix their imperfections.
A lot has been said and everyone's voice should be heard but it sadly isn't many times.
Who is going to be the final judge and for what?
We have different laws in different countries which all should be in perfect sync with God and his son Jesus but that sadly is not the case!
When things get out of hand people go to jail for a reason!
The woman on my heart for over a year now is a respected police officer from a first world country and has had a massive sinful stalker for years who was her dear friend at one point in her life.
She not only can't do much about him legally because he lives in Romania but she is too ashamed to speak to someone else about it exactly because of her position of strength in society and just shrugs it off while not realizing how much its slowly destroying her.
On the other hand I have been the victim of false accusations by a woman and was taken in custody on the spot by police! After a long written explanation, broken heart and confused mind I was let free on the same day by the lead detective thankfully with a reminder to be careful what kind of people I hang around!
The woman accusing me actually started loving me after and we started living together while trying to fix our own problems.
As far as my knowledge and concerns go we are all sinners and I have proven that to myself as nobody I have encountered or heard about doesn't have faults except Jesus our Lord and saviour!
It's not a matter of accepting as much it is knowing as I have had to hear almost every philosopher to understand each and everyone of them still isn't perfect.
I have personally been censored and bashed out of TL community because I have spoken the truth and nothing but the truth and God is my witness!
I have repented publicly for many sins as I am no perfect human but trust me when I tell you Justice is not in your hands it is in the Lords!
That being said he has given us the power of the holy spirit and the devils and demons who we can't deal with, we incarcerate and pray for!
Repenting is a thing and must be done by all regardless of how big or small the sin is!
It doesn't necessarily have to be in public like I have done to set a good example for all but it must be from the heart!
I cannot comment on all the tragic stories I have heard as I do not know either side and can only sympathize with the victims as this amongst other things shouldn't be present in our day and age!
I couldn't bare to fully read some of the things they went through and its only natural that we men feel even more protective of them.
I don't want to forget and mention all the males it happens to as well as I have also had an instance where a gay older man tried to see how I was feeling about the subject! Luckily for me at that point I had dealt with a lot of abusive people so I even most likely overreacted afterwords verbally while in conversation with his daughter.
Its only evident some people should be in jail or mental institutions and not only stopped from working here or there!
I advise for the people who felt their loved ones must take legal actions against predators to support them fully and be there morally every second as going through a process like that isn't easy.
Last but not least I feel obliged to speak on Rapids case as I have grown to love and know him from our casting crew.
I absolutely do not condone any of his behaviour towards females in the instances mentioned but I also don't condone a lot of my personal behaviour towards females in past years although I have had good intentions in my mind....
I might have slapped him in my atheist days if I overheard him making a woman uncomfortable but that would make me no less of a sinner.
How much is too much and are we aware of the perfect legal terms that exist for every action?
From the testimonies I've read on his case some of the girls owned him in their response and he was the laughing stalk which was known by many people it seems.
Where are all the teams and members and friends that might have known then to help support and speak out more if public shaming wasn't enough?
To me it sounds like his messed up sinful thoughts were working on some sinful girls if he kept using the same things over and over again....
Its sad it really is but is it rape? Is it abuse of power if it was well known and spoken by many people?
Did he not apologize or leave it alone when he felt you aren't on the same vibe? Did he touch you with no consent sexually?
How many toxic comments complimented with cursing words do we have to keep listening to here?
Do your loved ones and friends not read this forum or do we feel ok with certain types of behaviour only.
People commit suicide over internet torture and judging so be careful how hard you hit the hammer and on who.
We are all far from perfect but we all MUST change in the name of good and God.
Morals and laws and spirituality are built on God and nothing else!
I hope everyone learns their lesson and everyone finds peace.
#JusticeForAll
#JesusIsTheWay
#MercyGod
#Staysafe
Can we please leave religion out of this? At least here in Germany the katholic church has a pretty long and bad history of child abuse. Also not everyone here is christian. Oh, no actually we can not. I'm sad not everyone is a Christian but God has given you that choice, so have we! Pinpointing black sheep from certain religions would be like me saying all non Christians or Atheists like Hitler are your ancestors and they tried to wreck the world, not only Germany! As I said we are all sinners and just being a Christian doesn't make you perfect, actually the exact opposite, you are scrutinized more for trying to be perfect! I personally haven't been to Church in a long time and I talk about my faith more than linking myself to any particular Christian society or teaching. I have tried and keep trying to gather the best of all of them as I'm fully convinced we are in consensus with the truth, we just don't know how to present it perfectly. You need to learn and remind yourself about the Lord everyday. I try to pray atleast 2-3 times a day and keep him with me every second of the day with me otherwise I totally lose my righteous path! Is it wrong for me to ask mods to delete these religious posts? I don't care, please someone delete these religious posts. why?
It's off-topic and religion is an unreliable tool to decide what is right or wrong. On top of that, it's completely contradictory to any sort of justice or discussion, the bible is full of misogyny and racism.
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In this community and outside of it we must encourage victims to speak out and have no fear of blame or retribution. All these claims should be investigated thoroughly.
The burden of speaking out can not just lie with the victim. The issue of power imbalance that is apparent in many of these cases makes it more important that other community members take responsibility and speak out when they see or hear about anything inappropriate.
A post reveal twitter post claiming
"I didn't see anything bad but i'm now cutting ties" just won't be good enough anymore
We must all strongly expose and decry this kind of behavior and remove the walls of silence that exist. Only then can we make gaming a safe, equal and overall better community.
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On June 26 2020 17:26 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:On June 26 2020 16:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 16:06 deacon.frost wrote:On June 26 2020 08:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 08:42 AttackZerg wrote:
I repeat. You came to a thread about real people talking about very serious stuff.
And you made a false accusation as a way of defending someone.
You don't get to do that and pretend you are here for the love of open discourse and the betterment of the culture. People think by indulging posters like Char, Cele, deacon, etc in pretending they are after equitable justice (they aren't) it will conclude with them having a moment of clarity they wouldn't have if they were simply shunned and forced to reflect if they wanted to be welcome in public gaming spaces. The truth as I see it is (and this isn't limited to this specific set of circumstances) is that, instead, it perpetuates the status quo. I think folks like Viper and John have it right on this one. Just to be clear though, that doesn't mean there aren't people that are genuinely learning right now. As I think puppykiller + Show Spoiler +(I do hope there's some redeeming aspect of that tag or you consider changing it lol) mentioned, a lot of us grew up in very toxic spaces and have a lot of unlearning to do (myself included). The longer/more you have these kind of tough conversations that require deep introspection and reconciling some foul ish one might have done in the past (perhaps not fully grasping the depravity for many reasons) the easier it gets to spot the people that are basically "concern trolling" vs the people that are genuinely learning why what they think is valid concern for justice and fair treatment is actually, at best, being a useful idiot for abusers looking to concern troll in defense of other abusers (or worse intentionally protecting abusers with more discretion than those in focus at the moment) You have no idea what I want, what I think and I seriously doubt you came closer to the other, but hey, let's change the people! And not by civilized discussion and arguments but by removing them from community because that's what helps and changes people mind. Everything has to be based on my view and noone elses or we kick them out! Did I understand you correctly? I'm very familiar with the underlying reasoning that leads to the series of posts you've made here. Major aspect of what this is all about is that your (and those that have articulated similar positions) perception of "civilized discussion" and expectations for a civil society are part of the problem. What I'm saying is that letting it be known that it isn't welcome in our communities is what the women that have spoken up (generally about the pervasive nature of misogyny and sexual misconduct) have expressed is what they want. I welcome and encourage you to listen to them and act accordingly. Unless you're literally a child (and a young one at that, which I admittedly don't often consider here) I'm not going to coddle or convince you to act like an adult capable of treating women (or anyone) with basic human dignity. You're either going to do it or not and if not I'm going to express my contempt as long as it's tolerated by others. Are you the one who decides what's welcome in the communities? I speak my part, but I'm only one voice. Other's have shared their part as well. But my opinion is that the community is better with more Red_Vipers and John's and less yous until you sound more like them. I don't know you, so I care about you as much as any other stranger, which is to say I love (in the Freirean sense) you. What I hope we learn from this moment, is that the views you've espoused aren't welcome, but you are if you can disentangle the two. what exact views are yout talking about and why you edit the quote and ignore the 2nd part of the post?
My views on the fact that accused people should have some way of defense? That people should not judge others hastily and have some patience? Or what exactly? Quote the things you have issues with, otherwise you're just suppresing voices you don't like. For some reason you think what I think which is not what I think. I defended mostly the underlined part, so quote me, without the edits, please.
Thats standard GH for You. He rarely responds to what other user atcually posted.
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One of the reasons why I'm not fit to discuss politics is that I have a lot of trouble imagining that people are actually honest when they say deeply nonsensical stuff. It doesn't register to me that you could actually be concerned about "fairness" in a situation where multiple women come out against someone's behavior and you're like "Oooo I want to hear that person's side let's not judge hastily blblbl", because obviously this attitude creates a lot more unfairness for the women in the situation than it creates fairness for the man, so it overall decreases the amount of fairness involved in the situation, and if you thought about this for more than two seconds, you should have been able to realize that. Instead I skip the part where the person might be completely irrational and I'm reading something that sounds like "Oh, I am primarily concerned about myself, I'm more likely to be accused of sexual harassment than to be sexually harassed, so I primarily want the accused to be treated fairly, but that's not a politically correct thing to say so I'm just going to pretend I want fairness generally."
My other issue is that if I didn't do that, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do. Explain the concept of fairness as it relates to this situation as if the opposition was 3 years old? That doesn't seem conducive to dialogue either.
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On June 26 2020 18:10 Nebuchad wrote:
One of the reasons why I'm not fit to discuss politics is that I have a lot of trouble imagining that people are actually honest when they say deeply nonsensical stuff.
I'm reading something that sounds like "Oh, I am primarily concerned about myself, I'm more likely to be accused of sexual harassment than to be sexually harassed, so I primarily want the accused to be treated fairly, but that's not a politically correct thing to say so I'm just going to pretend I want fairness generally."
I think people can be honest and still think this way. The one thing that's important to notice is that these people don't look at the issue from the victim's POV, like at all.
Because they make no attempt to identify with the accuser, they immediately identify with the accused and are looking at it from that POV, and wondering whether they are innocent, and then imagining how they would feel if they were innocent. It makes sense, its just slightly warped because there's absolutely zero concern for the accuser.
On the other side of this, I've noticed that when I start posting about actual solutions... like real world things that we can do as a community, no-one seems even remotely interested in talking about that. This leads me to believe that there are people in here (not naming any names) who's main concern is looking righteous, which is the problem with cancel culture. There's a certain amount of dishonesty going on there also.
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With all those, who have problems seeing through the victims eyes, try to think, what you would do, if something like that would happen to your Girlfriend/Wife/Daughter/Sister/other close female relative.
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On June 26 2020 19:04 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 18:10 Nebuchad wrote:
One of the reasons why I'm not fit to discuss politics is that I have a lot of trouble imagining that people are actually honest when they say deeply nonsensical stuff.
I'm reading something that sounds like "Oh, I am primarily concerned about myself, I'm more likely to be accused of sexual harassment than to be sexually harassed, so I primarily want the accused to be treated fairly, but that's not a politically correct thing to say so I'm just going to pretend I want fairness generally."
+ Show Spoiler +I think people can be honest and still think this way. The one thing that's important to notice is that these people don't look at the issue from the victim's POV, like at all.
Because they make no attempt to identify with the accuser, they immediately identify with the accused and are looking at it from that POV, and wondering whether they are innocent, and then imagining how they would feel if they were innocent. It makes sense, its just slightly warped because there's absolutely zero concern for the accuser. On the other side of this, I've noticed that when I start posting about actual solutions... like real world things that we can do as a community, no-one seems even remotely interested in talking about that. This leads me to believe that there are people in here (not naming any names) who's main concern is looking righteous, which is the problem with cancel culture. There's a certain amount of dishonesty going on there also.
What are you talking about?
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On June 26 2020 19:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 19:04 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 26 2020 18:10 Nebuchad wrote:
One of the reasons why I'm not fit to discuss politics is that I have a lot of trouble imagining that people are actually honest when they say deeply nonsensical stuff.
I'm reading something that sounds like "Oh, I am primarily concerned about myself, I'm more likely to be accused of sexual harassment than to be sexually harassed, so I primarily want the accused to be treated fairly, but that's not a politically correct thing to say so I'm just going to pretend I want fairness generally."
+ Show Spoiler +I think people can be honest and still think this way. The one thing that's important to notice is that these people don't look at the issue from the victim's POV, like at all.
Because they make no attempt to identify with the accuser, they immediately identify with the accused and are looking at it from that POV, and wondering whether they are innocent, and then imagining how they would feel if they were innocent. It makes sense, its just slightly warped because there's absolutely zero concern for the accuser. On the other side of this, I've noticed that when I start posting about actual solutions... like real world things that we can do as a community, no-one seems even remotely interested in talking about that. This leads me to believe that there are people in here (not naming any names) who's main concern is looking righteous, which is the problem with cancel culture. There's a certain amount of dishonesty going on there also. What are you talking about?
If you read the post you quoted you will discover all the answers to this question 
Its probably just me being frustrated at being ignored.
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On June 26 2020 17:26 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2020 16:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:On June 26 2020 16:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 16:06 deacon.frost wrote:On June 26 2020 08:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2020 08:42 AttackZerg wrote:
I repeat. You came to a thread about real people talking about very serious stuff.
And you made a false accusation as a way of defending someone.
You don't get to do that and pretend you are here for the love of open discourse and the betterment of the culture. People think by indulging posters like Char, Cele, deacon, etc in pretending they are after equitable justice (they aren't) it will conclude with them having a moment of clarity they wouldn't have if they were simply shunned and forced to reflect if they wanted to be welcome in public gaming spaces. The truth as I see it is (and this isn't limited to this specific set of circumstances) is that, instead, it perpetuates the status quo. I think folks like Viper and John have it right on this one. Just to be clear though, that doesn't mean there aren't people that are genuinely learning right now. As I think puppykiller + Show Spoiler +(I do hope there's some redeeming aspect of that tag or you consider changing it lol) mentioned, a lot of us grew up in very toxic spaces and have a lot of unlearning to do (myself included). The longer/more you have these kind of tough conversations that require deep introspection and reconciling some foul ish one might have done in the past (perhaps not fully grasping the depravity for many reasons) the easier it gets to spot the people that are basically "concern trolling" vs the people that are genuinely learning why what they think is valid concern for justice and fair treatment is actually, at best, being a useful idiot for abusers looking to concern troll in defense of other abusers (or worse intentionally protecting abusers with more discretion than those in focus at the moment) You have no idea what I want, what I think and I seriously doubt you came closer to the other, but hey, let's change the people! And not by civilized discussion and arguments but by removing them from community because that's what helps and changes people mind. Everything has to be based on my view and noone elses or we kick them out! Did I understand you correctly? I'm very familiar with the underlying reasoning that leads to the series of posts you've made here. Major aspect of what this is all about is that your (and those that have articulated similar positions) perception of "civilized discussion" and expectations for a civil society are part of the problem. What I'm saying is that letting it be known that it isn't welcome in our communities is what the women that have spoken up (generally about the pervasive nature of misogyny and sexual misconduct) have expressed is what they want. I welcome and encourage you to listen to them and act accordingly. Unless you're literally a child (and a young one at that, which I admittedly don't often consider here) I'm not going to coddle or convince you to act like an adult capable of treating women (or anyone) with basic human dignity. You're either going to do it or not and if not I'm going to express my contempt as long as it's tolerated by others. Are you the one who decides what's welcome in the communities? I speak my part, but I'm only one voice. Other's have shared their part as well. But my opinion is that the community is better with more Red_Vipers and John's and less yous until you sound more like them. I don't know you, so I care about you as much as any other stranger, which is to say I love (in the Freirean sense) you. What I hope we learn from this moment, is that the views you've espoused aren't welcome, but you are if you can disentangle the two. what exact views are yout talking about and why you edit the quote and ignore the 2nd part of the post?
My views on the fact that accused people should have some way of defense? That people should not judge others hastily and have some patience? Or what exactly? Quote the things you have issues with, otherwise you're just suppresing voices you don't like. For some reason you think what I think which is not what I think. I defended mostly the underlined part, so quote me, without the edits, please.
That's Greenhorizons for you. He will strawman the hell out of you and rather respond against his imagined strawman than respond against you as a person. Then his gang of supporters will combine to gaslight you. You point out that his argument is to kick people out of communities for having different opinions, he goes and accuses you of not respecting women. That's simply how he rolls.
"If the other person seems to be arguing in good faith, then it's likely worth the conversation; if you get the feeling that they're just being contrarian simply to be an asshole, then don't waste your time or energy on them." Unfortunately that seems to be the only recourse. I can only offer my sympathies.
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EPT
