• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:53
CEST 02:53
KST 09:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)14Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure6Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho4Code S RO8 Preview: ByuN, Rogue, herO, Cure5[ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals7
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results212025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)14Code S Season 1 - Classic & GuMiho advance to RO4 (2025)4[BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET7
StarCraft 2
General
Any reason why RuFF's stream is still on sidebar? #SECRET #OCCULT #+2349069684394 #FOR #MONEY #RITUA Power Rank: October 2018 herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results
Tourneys
DreamHack Dallas 2025 announced (May 23-25) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S Season 1 - RO4 and Grand Finals WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed
Brood War
General
Artosis baned on twitch ? who is JiriKara /Cipisek/ from CZ BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: Emotional Finalist in Best vs Light Where is effort ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Semifinal B Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Grand Theft Auto VI Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Narcissists In Gaming: Why T…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 26508 users

Serral @ WCS Fall: "...if Zerg plays perfect, then Zerg sh…

Forum Index > SC2 General
180 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
TL.net ESPORTS
Profile Joined July 2011
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-10 03:13:50
September 10 2019 01:52 GMT
#1
[한국어 / Korean Translation]
+ Show Spoiler [한국어 보기] +
*역자주: 영어 인터뷰를 진행했을 때의 느낌을 살리기 위해 의역한 부분이 많습니다.

여섯 번째 서킷 대회 우승한 소감은 어떤가? 질리지도 않냐?

세랄: 우승하는 것이 질린다고 할 수 없지만, 레이너가 지난 두 번의 대회 우승해서 느낌이 달랐다. 아, 연달아 두 번은 아니지만, 어째든 올해 두 번 우승했을 내줬으니 내가 작년만큼 압도적이지 못했다. 그래서 적어도 마지막 대회 만큼은 꼭 우승해서 서킷 1위를 차지하고 보다 좋은 블리즈컨 시드를 확보하고 싶었다.

어째든, 우승이라... 뭐 느낌은 언제나 같다. 그래도 이번은 특별히 뜻깊었던 것 같다.

레이너한테 결승전에서 두 번 진 것 때문에 마음가짐이 좀 달라졌나? 동기부여가 더 되었나?

물론 그렇다. 가끔 진다는 것이... 내가 매번 우승하면 좀, 연습할 필요를 덜 느끼지 않을까? 그래도 내가 작년에 쭉 우승하고 있을 때도 연습은 항상 많이 했다. 하지만 2년 동안 싹쓸이 했으면, 좀 좋지 않은 영향이 있지 않았을까? 그래도 난 운좋게 항상 동기부여가 되어있고... 잘 모르겠다, 몇 번 진게 연습시간을 좀 올려줬던 것 같다.

그래서 나태해진 것까지는 아니고...

그렇다, 난 게으른적은 없었다. 그래도 져서 동기부여가 된건 맞다. 사실 내가 레이너에게 졌던 경기들은 저질러서 안될 실수들 때문이었다. 내가 연습과 경험을 더 쌓아서 게임을 더 잘한다면 고칠 수 있을 거라고 생각했다.

레이너는 뭘 다르게 하길레 다른 서킷 선수들과 다르게 널 이길 수 있는가?

뭐, 일단 실력이 굉장하다. 아마... 확실히 두 번째로 잘하는 것 같다. 그 것만으로도 당연히 나를 이길 가능성이 더 높다. 그리고 올해 초에는 이상한 빌드도 많이 쓰고, 올인성, 도박성이 짙은 전략을 많이 썼다. 요새는 정석적으로 많이 하는 것 같다. 그냥 다른 선수들보다 잘하는 것 같다, 특히 저저전에서. 다른 종족전은 비교적으로 약하지만, 저저전 만큰은 굉장히 쎄다. 그리고, 뭐 잘 모르겠지만, 내가 방심한걸 잘 노리는 경우도 있고, 내가 실수를 할 때도 있다. 한 가지 요소가 때문에이기는 건 아니다.

항상 닙, 히어로마린, 쇼타임 같은 서킷의 탑 선수들을 많이 칭찬한다. 그런데 대회에서 경기를 치루면 너무 일방적으로 이기는 것 같다. 다른 선수들이 너랑 경기 할 때 실력을 발휘 못하는 이유가 있나? 위축되어서 게임을 하는가?

솔직히 나를 두려워하는지는 모르겠다. 그냥... 많은 선수들이 대회에서는 평소 때 보다 게임을 못하는 것 같다. 아, 못한다기 보다는 그냥 이상한 실수를 더 많이 저지른다. 그래서 대회에서는 상대의 실수를 유발시키는 경기 스타일이 연습 때 보다 더 좋은 것 같다. 내 상대들이 나를 두려워하는 것 같진 않지만, 그냥 대회 중 매 순간이 평소와 다를 뿐이다. 나 또한 대회에서 실수가 더 잦다. 누구나 다 그렇지만... 난 그래도 남들에 비해 평소 경기력을 대회에서 잘 낸다.

2018년이랑 2019년에 많은 국제 대회에 참가했는데, 어느 해에 한국 스타2가 더 강했다고 생각하나?

큰 변화는 없었던 것 같다. 팬들은 당장 GSL 대 월드 결과만 놓고 한국판이 약해졌다고 하지만, 운이 좀 작용했던 것 같다. 우리 편에게 좋은 대진이 많이 걸렸고, 그로 인해서 외국 선수들이 많이 올라갔던 것 같다. 그래도 난 한국판이 작년이랑 비슷한 것 같다. 솔직히 별로 변한 것 같진 않다.

그럼 외국판은 어떤가? 작년에 비해 강해졌나? 블리즈컨에서 그대월 처럼 이변을 낼 수 있을 것 같나?

레이너가 작년에 참가하지 못했는데, 올해는 출전할 것이며 잘할 수 있을 것 같다. 아쉽게도 지금까지는 한국인이 참가하는 대회에서 많이 부진하고 있다. 그런데 난 레이너는 한국 선수들을 이길 수 있는 실력을 가지고 있다고 확신한다. 그래서 가장 주목해야 한다고 생각한다. 물론 스페셜도 아주 좋은 성적을 낼 수 있다. 지난번에도 플레이오프에 진출하지 않았는가? 레이너, 스페셜은 진짜 잘 할 수 있을 것 같다. 스페셜은 준비 기간이 있는 대회에 강하고, 서킷에서 못 잡는 레이너를 그대월에서 압도하면서 이를 증명한 것 같다. 물론 일레이저에게도 가능성이 있다. 모두에게 이변을 낼 잠재력이 있지만, 지금 언급한 선수들이 가능성이 가장 많은 것 같다.

올해 블리컨 우승 확률이 어떤가? 또 50-50라고 하진 않겠지?

맞다. 50-50이다. 우승하거나 지거나. 간단하다.

양심적으로 60-40이라고 해야 하지 않냐. 우승도 많이 했는데...

아, 확률을 올리기는 무섭다. 한국 선수들에게 자신들만의 스타일과 전략도 있고, 조가 결정되면 준비할 시간도 많다. 꾀 무섭다. 그래도 내가 우승할 확률도 괜찮다고 생각한다.

요새 저테전 후반전에 대한 말이 많은데, 본인의 생각은 어떤가? 전태양 선수는 세랄 상대로 답이 안나온다고 하고, 조성주도 강민수랑 한판하고 후반을 포기 한 것 같던데.

음, 내 생각에는...

지금 저테전, 저프전 후반전을 놓고 보면, 저그가 완벽하게 게임을 하면 저그가 반드시 이겨야 한다고 생각한다. 그런데 요새 EMP충격파 버프도 있고, 한번 잘못 걸려서 감영충이 다 맞기가 너무 쉽다. 그 순간 그 경기는 바로 지는거다. 진균이 있어야 유령이 상대가 되는데, 한 2마리 정도는 항상 필요하다. 잘 모르겠다. 그렇게까지 상태가 나쁜 것 같진 않다, 특히 감염충 너프를 고려했을 때. 저프전의 경우에는 이제 대량 감염충에만 의존할 수 없다.

그래도 저그가 완변하게 게임을 한다면, 저그의 후반이 테란의 후반보다 확실히 강하다. 저프전 후반은 아직 경험이 부족해서 말하기 애매하다. 감염충 너프 이후 경기를 많이 못했다. 후반전은 한 다섯 판 밖에 못 했다.

마지막으로 하고싶은 말이 있다면?

모두가 응원해줘서 고맙고, 연습해준 선수들에게도 고맙다. 연습해준 사람은 너무 많아서 일일이 언급하진 않겠다. 연습해준 모든 선숙, 나를 응원하는 팬들, 그리고 팀 ENCE에 고맙다고 전하고 싶다.

역시 성공의 맛을 본 세랄은 많이 거만해졌군. 작년이었으면 연습 상대들을 일일이 호명하지 않았을까?

[세랄이 반박하기 전에 인터뷰 컷.]


TL.net's Wax talked to (Wiki)Serral shortly after his 4-1 triumph over Reynor in the finals of WCS Fall. Serral discussed the meaning of his sixth Circuit title, the state of Circuit vs Korea in 2019, late-game Zerg power, and other topics.

*This interview has been edited and condensed.


[image loading]
Photo: Nav



Wax: How does it feel winning your sixth title on the Circuit, and whatever number this is overall? Does it feel any different? Can you ever really get tired of winning?

Serral: Well I don't think I can say I can get tired of winning, but obviously it feels slightly different since Reynor took the last two. Well, not the last two, but two WCS stops this year, so I wasn't as dominant. So I really wanted to take the last one at least, so that I would secure my first seed in WCS rankings and get a better seed for BlizzCon.

But, at the same time, winning, I mean... the feelings are around the same anyways. But this was more meaningful, for sure.

So you think losing to Reynor at WCS Winter, and then again at Summer... it changed your mindset? It made you more motivated?

Yeah, sure. Obviously, losing sometimes... If I would win every time, it would probably be, it would take some of the practice needs away. But I think, even when last year when I was winning a lot, I still practiced a lot, and I kept going. But if I would have won everything for two years, I would maybe have been a bit worse? But luckily I have kept my motivation, and... I don't know, I think losing a couple of times for sure raised my practice times a little bit.

So it wasn't like you were getting lazy...

Yeah I wasn't lazy, never, but I still lost, and it for sure gave me more motivation. I felt like the series I lost were because of the kind of mistakes that shouldn't have happened really, and I felt that if I just played better, with more practice and experience, I would be able to fix that.

What do you think Reynor does different from other Circuit players that allows him to beat you?

Well, I mean, he's very skillful, first off. I think he's probably one of—probably the second best for sure right now, and that's already gonna give him a better shot. And, I mean, at the start of the year, he was doing a lot of strange builds and kind of all-iny, gambly stuff. Lately he has been playing pretty normal, I feel like. I would just say he's a bit better, especially in ZvZ. He has some weaker match-ups, but his ZvZ is very strong. And, ionno, he gets me off guard sometimes, and I make some mistakes as well. But, I don't think there's anything too specific.

You always give a lot of other players credit for their skill, like Neeb, HeRoMarinE or ShoWTimE. But once you get into a tournament match against them, it often looks like a stomp. Is there something that changes in a tournament match, that maybe they're afraid of you, something that causes them to not play as well?

Well, I'm sure if they're too scared of me honestly, but... I do feel like a lot people tend to play a bit worse in tournaments. Well, not worse, but they make more weird mistakes. And I feel like, that's why I feel like mistake-reliant styles are way better in tournaments than they are in practice. I don't think they're scared, it's just that tournament moments are always a bit different. I think I also make more mistakes in tournaments. And everyone does that, but I still manage to bring pretty close to my [normal] game.

You played a ton of international tournaments in 2018 and 2019. From your experience, which year do you think the Korean scene was stronger?

I dont think there's too much of a change. I think people tend to say that Koreans are weaker right now after the GSL vs. The World result, but I think that was partly a bit of luck. I think we got a lot of good match-ups, and that way we got pretty far with a lot of foreign palyers. But
I would say the Korean scene is around the same as last year. I don't think it really changed too much in my honest opinion.

How about the foreign scene? Is it stronger comapred to 2018? Do you think they could surprise the same way like GSL vs. The World at BlizzCon?

Obviously Reynor wasn't in last year, and he's gonna be there this year, I think he can do good. Sadly for him, he's been doing pretty bad in tournaments where Koreans are actually in. But I think he has the skill, absolutely, to win [against] them, so he's probably the biggest one to look at. But obviously Special can do very well as well, he got to the playoff bracket already last time. I think Reynor, SpeCial, can do really well. SpeCial is good in preparation tournaments, like he already showed at GSL vs. The World, where he took down Reynor pretty convincingly, which he normally doesn't do in WCS events. And obviously, Elazer has a shot... I think everyone has a shot, but those are probably the biggest ones.

So you think you have your usual 50-50 chance of winning BlizzCon again?

Yeah, sure... 50-50. It's win or lose. It's very simple.

You sure you don't want to make it 60-40? You've been winning more than 50%...

Well... it's very scary to raise it, it seems. Koreans have their own stuff, and when they get preparation time, like out in the groups already, it's pretty scary. But obviously, I think I would have a decently good chance to win.

What do you think about ppl saying late-game ZvT is OP? You see guys like TY saying he tried everything against late-game Serral and it didn't work, so there's no chance.

Well, I think...

I think ZvT and ZvP late game, I would say if Zerg plays perfect, then Zerg should always win late-game pretty much. But with like the EMP buff and that kind of stuff, it's very easy to get caught off guard with your infestors, and the moment that happens you kind of auto-lose the game. Since you need to fungals to beat ghosts, and you kind of just need a couple of infestors, at least. I don't know, I don't think it's TOO bad, especially with the infestor nerf right now—I don't think we can rely on mass-infestors anymore in ZvP.

But I would say, if Zerg plays perfect, Zerg late game is stronger than Terran late-game for sure. And with ZvP I can't tell exactly because I haven't played enough, but it feels... it's very hard to say. I don't know, ZvP I can't say too much about because I haven't played with the infestor nerf all too much, I played like five late-game games.

Any final comments or shoutouts?

Just the normal thanks for your support, shoutouts to everyone for helping. All the fans, obviously all the practice partners as well. Not gonna name any, there's too many of them. Yeah, thanks to everyone who practiced and helped me prepare for this, and all the fans supporting me, and my team ENCE.

And that's how we know success has changed Serral: he refuses to name his practice partners when he would have gone through all of them one by one last year.

[The interviewer fled before before Serral could offer a retort.]


You can follow Serral and ENCE on Twitter at @ENCE_Serral and @ENCE.

Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
BlackPride
Profile Joined July 2012
United States186 Posts
September 10 2019 02:10 GMT
#2
buzzfeed title to an actually great interview
I've never waited in line at the DMV [YVNG]
joshie0808
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1023 Posts
September 10 2019 02:12 GMT
#3
Thanks for the interview!

The second last question has the wrong bolding - "Well I think..." is bolded but the question is not.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33230 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-10 02:13:39
September 10 2019 02:13 GMT
#4
On September 10 2019 11:10 BlackPride wrote:
buzzfeed title to an actually great interview


is it clickbait if it's actually exactly what it says in the headline and not misleading ?
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
pzlama333
Profile Joined April 2013
United States276 Posts
September 10 2019 02:22 GMT
#5
Does he mean that even the Terran player play perfect, the Zerg still should always win a late ZvT if the Zerg also play perfect. That does not sound good in theory. However, in a real game, players from both side will make mistakes eventually some time. I would like to know how is the fault-tolerance of any race. If one player makes one small mistake, does it cost the whole game, a single fight, or easy to recover?
Dave4
Profile Joined August 2018
494 Posts
September 10 2019 02:24 GMT
#6
Great interview, thanks Wax! A little disappointed to miss the mention about power rank though. Kind regards Dave4
IMSupervisor
Profile Joined June 2016
Australia138 Posts
September 10 2019 02:24 GMT
#7
On September 10 2019 11:13 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2019 11:10 BlackPride wrote:
buzzfeed title to an actually great interview


is it clickbait if it's actually exactly what it says in the headline and not misleading ?


Yes, clickbait is about getting attention and getting people to click the link. In this case, I would say that the title is good clickbait as it is accurate. Bad clickbait is fabricated or misleading.

You could have also called the article "An interview with WCS Champion Serral" which would have been just as accurate but as we know, far less intriguing.
scoo2r
Profile Joined December 2015
Canada90 Posts
September 10 2019 02:25 GMT
#8
Great interview I always enjoy reading these!
Another day, another depot.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-10 02:32:24
September 10 2019 02:31 GMT
#9
BL/Infestor really does seem like one of those "don't let them get there" comps. For Terran and Protoss both.

All the recent patch did was push back the threshold for "there" a little bit.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Beelzebub1
Profile Joined May 2015
1004 Posts
September 10 2019 02:34 GMT
#10
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that just because Zerg late game is superior to Terran does not mean that the match up is wildly imbalanced. It's extremely rare for a match up to be perfectly equal at all stages of the game for all match ups. A tournament or two with the EMP buffs and the Infested Terran nerfs should tell us if it's sufficient.

On this note, Broodlord/Infestor is still incredibly strong, it looks more or less invincible when played right, and I play Zerg. I wouldn't mind if they made Broodlords move faster in exchange for even maybe a -1 on attack range, that way 10 + Brood lords can't just shell an army creating instant broodling armies with impunity.
alestormsabaton1994
Profile Joined September 2018
12 Posts
September 10 2019 02:46 GMT
#11
BL/winfestors is the reason why sc2 went from an S tier e-sport to a C tier now.

If blizzard cant learn from history and take forever to fix that imbalance the game is gone for good.

User was warned for this post.
NinjaNight
Profile Joined January 2018
428 Posts
September 10 2019 02:58 GMT
#12
On September 10 2019 11:34 Beelzebub1 wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that just because Zerg late game is superior to Terran does not mean that the match up is wildly imbalanced. It's extremely rare for a match up to be perfectly equal at all stages of the game for all match ups. A tournament or two with the EMP buffs and the Infested Terran nerfs should tell us if it's sufficient.

On this note, Broodlord/Infestor is still incredibly strong, it looks more or less invincible when played right, and I play Zerg. I wouldn't mind if they made Broodlords move faster in exchange for even maybe a -1 on attack range, that way 10 + Brood lords can't just shell an army creating instant broodling armies with impunity.


Not wildly imbalanced, but clearly zerg is strongest because they just need to make it to the late game without falling too far behind and then they have the advantage. Even when they fall far behind but survive to the late game they can be really hard to finish off and make a comeback and win.
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States869 Posts
September 10 2019 03:09 GMT
#13
Hooray for Wax! One thing that interests me is that Serral thinks the skill difference between foreigners and Koreans has remained about the same. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts regarding how he keeps his skill level so high despite primarily practicing against opponents that are (for the most part) weaker than their Korean counterparts.

As always, thanks for the content
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
Brutaxilos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2622 Posts
September 10 2019 03:22 GMT
#14
Wow, actually a great interview. Serral is actually still surprisingly humble despite his incredible achievements giving great shoutouts to other great players. Nice to see his honest opinions on balance as well.
Jangbi favorite player. Forever~ CJ herO the King of IEM. BOMBERRRRRRRR. Sexy Boy Rogue. soO #1! Oliveira China Represent!
fastr
Profile Joined February 2011
France901 Posts
September 10 2019 03:33 GMT
#15
What Serral really meant is "If I'm the one playing then zerg should always win late game", because as far as I'm concerned, Serral is the closest thing we've seen from perfect play in 9 years of SC2.

The last patch with the stim and EMP buff really helped with late game TvP. To me the matchup still seems slightly protoss favored, but it doesn't seem unwinnable like it was for several months.

TvZ is really concerning though. And I think broodlords are a much bigger problem than the infestor. We've seen zergs getting up to ridiculous numbers of broodlords, eg Solar vs Maru game 1, I think Solar went up to 29 broodlords. At this point Zerg don't even need infestors anymore. Thors get one shotted by 50 broodlings and can never target the broodlords with their effective 13 range. Liberators can't kill the broodlings anymore. Ghosts... well why would make ghosts if Zerg has 0 infestor? Snipe won't work as even if they don't instantly die to broodlings, any damage cancel the spell anyway.

So what is terran supposed to build at that point? Vikings are dead supply at this point. BC's I guess? But they're so supply heavy that a few neural parasites will render them useless as well, and even a low number of corruptors will dumpster them. I hope Blizzard will come up with meaningful design changes for the post-Blizzcon patch.


FBTsingLoong
Profile Joined April 2018
China410 Posts
September 10 2019 03:53 GMT
#16
I remember TL interviewed SC2 lead designer last year,and the designer said
Just throughout the history of StarCraft, Terran has been seen as disfavored [in the late-game] in some matchups. So we’re trying to make it, maybe not 100% balanced or 50/50 balanced, but make it so that all races feel like they have a decent chance in the late-game depending on how they play. Our goal isn’t to ensure that each of the race’s final compositions can butt heads into each other and win 50% of the time.
TyInnoMaruByunAlive,TIMBA
finalius
Profile Joined April 2015
3 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-10 04:03:51
September 10 2019 04:01 GMT
#17
On September 10 2019 11:22 pzlama333 wrote:
Does he mean that even the Terran player play perfect, the Zerg still should always win a late ZvT if the Zerg also play perfect. That does not sound good in theory. However, in a real game, players from both side will make mistakes eventually some time. I would like to know how is the fault-tolerance of any race. If one player makes one small mistake, does it cost the whole game, a single fight, or easy to recover?


I think he was mostly talking about Infestor vs EMP. Basically, if you babysit your Infestors perfectly, Terran should never get an EMP off on them. And then, they can never take a good fight because neural against BC/Thor, Fungal against bio.

Obviously, it's incredibly hard to never get hit by an EMP. I feel its a bit like saying "if you have infinite apm and camera angle like the first alpahstar, blink stalkers are unbeatable". It's true, but a very theoretical argument. The whole goal of modern, high level SC2 mid- to late-game is spreading your opponents attention thin so that he makes mistakes.
DomeGetta
Profile Joined February 2012
480 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-10 05:02:21
September 10 2019 04:58 GMT
#18
Yeah tbh I really don't think we can say anything about the balance of late game ZvT at this point - there are easily 5 if not 7 or 8 Terrans out there of a higher class than any that we saw at WCS Fall -
Soul, though not the best Eu Terran I would say certainly has the best late-game TvZ on EU - and he didn't make it to the playoffs to show his stuff (Looked very strong vs Namshar - but Drogo got him in the knockout bracket - didn't see his games vs. SortOf in group stage 2).

HeroMarine took Serral to the brink multiple games without what is looking like the ideal rounded out comp.
He had a ton of Thor but not a single ghost - with that new EMP and cloak there are loads of opportunities to get ur infestors nullified - and if that had happened at any point in combo with those Thor he can A-move the Broodlords.

Mass Thor vs. Mass BL iso is hilarious to watch - you need like 30 BL to stand a chance - the infestors are hugely important - and now T has some counter play vs them.

I'm actually hyped to watch Maru/Ty (hopefully if Dark doesn't end him tonight) at Blizzcon utilizing this army comp against Zerg. It's sad there might only be 1 KR - Terran at Blizzcon when there are literally 3 to 4 players from WCS that you could argue are better than Inno/Gumi/Keen/Cure but it is what it is.

We'll still get to see it in Dark vs. TY tonight and Maru/Ragna tomorrow which will be a treat.

Serral v Maru dream is alive (HYPE) - I don't want to curse it but I'm really believing it's going to happen if blizzcon happens on current patch.
Rusty253
Profile Joined July 2019
7 Posts
September 10 2019 05:07 GMT
#19
I don't know if it is okay to be sarcastic here but I was going to say "But didn't they just patch zerg!?"
DomeGetta
Profile Joined February 2012
480 Posts
September 10 2019 05:15 GMT
#20
On September 10 2019 12:33 fastr wrote:
What Serral really meant is "If I'm the one playing then zerg should always win late game", because as far as I'm concerned, Serral is the closest thing we've seen from perfect play in 9 years of SC2.

The last patch with the stim and EMP buff really helped with late game TvP. To me the matchup still seems slightly protoss favored, but it doesn't seem unwinnable like it was for several months.

TvZ is really concerning though. And I think broodlords are a much bigger problem than the infestor. We've seen zergs getting up to ridiculous numbers of broodlords, eg Solar vs Maru game 1, I think Solar went up to 29 broodlords. At this point Zerg don't even need infestors anymore. Thors get one shotted by 50 broodlings and can never target the broodlords with their effective 13 range. Liberators can't kill the broodlings anymore. Ghosts... well why would make ghosts if Zerg has 0 infestor? Snipe won't work as even if they don't instantly die to broodlings, any damage cancel the spell anyway.

So what is terran supposed to build at that point? Vikings are dead supply at this point. BC's I guess? But they're so supply heavy that a few neural parasites will render them useless as well, and even a low number of corruptors will dumpster them. I hope Blizzard will come up with meaningful design changes for the post-Blizzcon patch.




From what I've seen on the new patch:

If mech transitioning super late game:

Mass Thor/Ghost still smashes an only Broodlord army - no matter how many you have.
They can build enough BL to beat only Thor - but it is like you said - close to 30 that you need.

You can't single target the Thor and still interrupt all the snipes - so you need infestors to fungal / IT and neural.
Thor outrange Broods and do a ton of dmg with single shot if upgrades are good.
Only time it makes sense to go pure BL is if they can actually get 30+ and you are only building Thor.
If you have ghost/thor it should just get smashed.

Never build Vikings lmao - at least from what I can tell they are just as trash vs late game Z as they always have been.
You saw in HeroMarine/Serral multiple times gabe lose 8-10 vikings to a couple fungals and a para bomb.

If transitioning super late game from the mech BC style:
It looks like BC / Liberator / Ghost can be very strong.
We actually saw Maru at WCG prior to this patch do it without the ghosts - but it seems too good to not have now with the upgrade - if you can sneak a few ghosts on a flank cloaked you can hit like 10 infestors and they are in big trouble.
Libs to zone out the infestors / Ghosts for emp on infestors / snipes on broods/corrupt
Even if they have like 25 corrupters if you have 12 BCs and you land emps on the infestors you can yamato half of them and in a real good spot. The ITerrans tickle the BCs now but you can still lose your whole fleet if you get fungaled/neuraled and ported into spore/corrupterville.

Not saying either of these styles are OP just saying that it looks to me like Terran finally has at least some counterplay to BL/Infestor - which I think we will see exploited to a much higher degree by the S class Terrans.
1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 GSL S1 - Ro8 Group B
CranKy Ducklings92
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 138
ProTech78
CosmosSc2 61
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 9383
Icarus 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm9
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1009
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0583
hungrybox482
AZ_Axe154
Mew2King58
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor126
Other Games
summit1g13398
tarik_tv8936
Day[9].tv994
JimRising 526
shahzam297
Maynarde192
JuggernautJason76
ViBE56
Trikslyr54
NightEnD20
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1205
BasetradeTV65
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 77
• davetesta65
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5359
• TFBlade1091
Other Games
• Day9tv994
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
9h 7m
Replay Cast
23h 7m
Replay Cast
1d 9h
Road to EWC
1d 14h
Replay Cast
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
Road to EWC
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
BeSt vs Soulkey
Road to EWC
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
[ Show More ]
SOOP
5 days
NightMare vs Wayne
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
The PondCast
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-16
2025 GSL S1
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Heroes 10 EU
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

Rose Open S1
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.