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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On June 13 2007 19:57 quasi -QS- wrote:Show nested quote +And yeah, first Reapers being ripped off of Assasult Marines, now Soul Hunters being ripped from Necron. Does Blizzard even have a concept team anymore? As if SC1 wasn't already a major rip-off of Warhammer40k? I love Starcraft, but don't try to pass that game off as something incredibly original in design. Show nested quote +Who the fuck settles for names like Soul Hunter and Stalker? If the game turns out great, fine, but that doesn't change the fact that these names are terrible. The names aren't any worse or more cheesy than the original. Except maybe Soul Hunter.
what, SC1 names are so cool and simple and yeah.
'zealots' , dragoons, dark templar, high templar. carrier. whatever. >>>>>> SOUL HUNTER LOLZ
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Well blizzard said that there going to be the same number of units as in BWs. That for ever unit they removed they added a new one. So what we have here by my best guess is.
Probe=probe
Zealot=Zealot
Goon=Immortals/Soul Hunters?
DT=Stalker?
HT=HT?
Archon=Soul Hunter/Colossus?
Dark Archon=Twilight Archon?
Shuttle=Warp prism?
Reaver=Reaver thingy?
Obs=???????
Scout=Warp Ray?
Corsair=Phoenix?
Carrier=Tempest?
Arbiter=Mothership?
If what blizzard told us is true i think obs are gone. Maybe no more cloaked units? Because the Soul Hunter or the Colossus is going to take it spot right?
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Odd, I remember arguing with the hardcore C&C Tiberian Sun and RA2 gamers back when BW was somewhat new. Their main argument was that SC was too big, bubbly, and cartoony. :p
I personally like the way SC2 is looking, and it seems the speed is still there as well. The only things I do worry about are, as people have said, the attack/magic/physics effects clouding the clear battle panorama that SC1 has, but I'm guessing there will be video options letting you turn down or even eliminate these effects.
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On June 13 2007 19:48 marquis wrote:
Here's the thing. It's a lot more difficult to have such high expectations for Blizzard to get all the details right when they apparently seemed to have so little time on even something as important as the names of units.
Who the fuck settles for names like Soul Hunter and Stalker? If the game turns out great, fine, but that doesn't change the fact that these names are terrible. Who the fuck gives a shit. They can call them the pink lady units for all i care. They can shoot blueberry muffins and cookies from there guns, and where big pink Tootoos. As long as the gameplay is tight who gives a fuck.
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Why does everyone seem to like the Dark and Evil setting graphics?
Maybe it's just me, but those really don't appeal to me.
On the other hand, you have to understand, those are the Protoss. The Protoss are suppose to look like that. It actually makes them look very technologic advance.
For the people that likes Dark and Evil settings, I'm sure once Blizzard releases more info about the Zerg and their buildings, you guys will jump for joy.
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I'd like to note that criticisms like this are based completely off of nostalgia and nothing else, which is unwarranted when the game is supposed to take place at least 4 years after the close of Brood War. Terran technology may have influenced Protoss technology, and vice-versa, the Terran laser tech, which was non-existent for Protoss now having a new home, whereas the Terrans, who may or may not have unlocked more of their "psionic potential" could have technology similar to this.
Think about it this way - everyone's angry because the Protoss are so different than previous, but that's only because that's the race they've released the most about. If they had released the same amount of changes, but split it up evenly among the three races, we may have only got up to Zealot charge, Immortals, Stalkers, and maybe Colossi for Protoss, with other units revealed for other ones. Had you only seen those, would you be criticising it so much? "Well, they changed a few things around for the Protoss, yeah." They just threw too much information about one subject at us at once, and they didn't let the nostalgic feel of old Starcraft fall away before they pew-pewed these laser-loving Protoss at us. Had they released each race's individual units slower, but released multiple races at a time, I think that would have had a major impact on how we're receiving the changes in the game.
As for the cartoony graphics - it makes more sense. The shadows in Brood War are nigh-non-existent, and time seems like a perpetual dusk in Brood War. The lighter and darker parts of the game give it a more realistic feel - we don't know whether or not they're going to have a time-like graphics rendering system, where the light on the field changes as the game progresses yet, like it does in Warcraft 3. Is there something wrong with realism? I think not. Warcraft 3, while many of you don't want any part of it in Starcraft 2, did add some innovative ideas not to its own franchise, but RTSes in general, and it'd be foolish for Starcraft 2 not to capitalise on the best parts of Warcraft 3. Light is important in combat, whether it be intraplanetary or interplanetary. Starcraft 2 is just showing us this.
On a lighter note, rA's going to love the Phase Cannons, m i rite?
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On June 13 2007 20:06 InToTheWannaB wrote:
Well blizzard said that there going to be the same number of units as in BWs. That for ever unit they removed they added a new one. So what we have here by my best guess is.
Probe=probe
Zealot=Zealot
Goon=Immortals/Soul Hunters?
DT=Stalker?
HT=HT?
Archon=Soul Hunter/Colossus?
Dark Archon=Twilight Archon?
Shuttle=Warp prism?
Reaver=Reaver thingy?
Obs=???????
Scout=Warp Ray?
Corsair=Phoenix?
Carrier=Tempest?
Arbiter=Mothership?
If what blizzard told us is true i think obs are gone. Maybe no more cloaked units? Because the Soul Hunter or the Colossus is going to take it spot right?
If you read the description attached to the Youtube video on Youtube's site you'll notice they mention that High Templar, Observers, and Dark Templar are returning. I'm not sure how credible it is though.
So:
Probe = Probe
Zealot = Zealot
Goon = Immortals
DT = DT?
HT = HT
Archon = Twilight Archon
Dark Archon = ?
Shuttle = Warp prism?
Reaver = Reaver
Obs = Obs?
Scout = Warp Ray
Corsair = Phoenix
Carrier = Tempest
Arbiter = Mothership?
The Twilight Archon looked to be attacking and used on the front lines so I would assume it would be replacing the Archon as a heavy assault unit. The Warp Prism seems closest to a Shuttle in terms of use. Arbiter was an expensive flying unit at the end of the tech tree with lots of spells, sounds like the Mothership to me. So this leaves 1 open slot for another new unit to take the Dark Archon's place provided the DA isn't back. However, there are 2 new units being added in the Soul Hunter and the Stalker. Of course, it's entirely possible the description is lying in which case we would have 3 open slots (DT, Obs, DA) to fill with 2 new units (SH, Stalker) leaving 1 more slot again.
As for the aesthetics, I think the Protoss should look very clean and advanced. They are technically the most advanced race and they've had reason to reevaluate all their previous weapons of war due to their loss of Auir. Also, as most of the units are being produced anew they should have a newer look to them than the older Protoss units in SC:BW that potentially were around for centuries or more.
Lastly, I would like to say that the Reaper and Soul Hunter both bare a striking resemblance to W40k units in the Assault Marine and Destroyer from Dawn of War. I can deal with them copying the look and feel of the Space Marines to an extent and other similarities (zerg=tyranid?) in SC:BW but now W40k has it's own RTS with many of these units in their game now. I would like to see Blizz try a bit harder to stay away from resembling a competing RTS game in this day and age.
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wow, i have to say that this is obviously based very largely off war3, which actually kind of sucks, b/c if there is any game i would not want sc2 to be based of off it is warcraft 3. Very war3-ish graphics and incredibly stupid names
LOL @ soul hunter?!
it's a joke right?
i do not care if the "soul hunter"'s only job in life is to collect souls, you have to have the intellect of a five year old to name it the soul hunter.
since when do protoss hunt souls.
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is awesome32277 Posts
Dark templar is cheesy as hell :S
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for those people complaining about sc2:
If you are a true Starcraft fan you will play and buy this game.
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On June 13 2007 20:51 [angst]chraej wrote:
wow, i have to say that this is obviously based very largely off war3, which actually kind of sucks, b/c if there is any game i would not want sc2 to be based of off it is warcraft 3. Very war3-ish graphics and incredibly stupid names
LOL @ soul hunter?!
it's a joke right?
i do not care if the "soul hunter"'s only job in life is to collect souls, you have to have the intellect of a five year old to name it the soul hunter.
since when do protoss hunt souls.
Why the fuck are you going crazy over unit NAMES? Honestly, that is just plain stupid, to get angry over.
I do not care if a "carrier"'s job is to carry stuff, you have to have the intellect of a five year old to name it the carrier.
Since when do protoss carry stuff. (assuming they convert the mass to energy, which is what they seem to do...)
What else are you guys going to complain about now? I don't want to be a bastard, I just want to point out you guys are brooding over the aesthetic parts of the game.
EDIT: Wow, i totally disregarded your first part of your post  sowwie...
Anyways I have to kinda agree to a certain extent, hopefully the game won't turn into one where spells become very defining in battles like WC3, but I think they said the units were gonig to be "run-and-shoot" or something so actually we don't have to worry too much, yet anyways...
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You don't like it? dON'T LPAY IT! People who say that it's too colorful, well, just adjust your monitor screen color.. There happy? =P
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lol:
"Soul hunter: Soul hunters are anti infantry units that float around on hover boards and suck the souls out of enemies. The more souls they consume the more powerful they get, going from firing one beam at a time to three. Theyll be effective against organic units but practically useless against robotic units like the Protoss own reaver."
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looking forward to new map tiles
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Not cartoony, just models were a little fat/bloated. It can be fixed anytime with a replace of a skin or mod of wireframe. They're probably leaving that work out until later. So they're just leaving the designs as just placeholders. I like the command centre being very huge though. What needs changes are what looks big or fat or pull the zoom view up a level. Hmm... maybe they're showing this at a zoomed level but yeah, some units looked too big and some looked too small.
Twilight is the tile setting and probably also the suns' setting on Shakuras(DT homeworld).
I also agree with the guy who said the name may actually be Surf Hunter.
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to me it looks tooo wc3ish, but i know this is pre-alpha. id like to view another update
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IT LOOKS CARTOONY, and I can explain why.
Having worked with 3D graphics before, when a model is too smooth, it looks unnatural. In groping for the words to describe a look like that which does not exist in nature we tend to come up with words like "cartoony", "plastic" or just plain "unnatural".
If you look at the graphics of, say, Star Wars Episode 1, even though the graphics were stunning, there was a nagging feel that the characters were all too smooth to be real, and their movements were all too smooth to be real.
It is possible to have 3D characters that look natural. Diablo 3's cut scenes look very good, because the characters don't have, say, overly smooth skin. Nor are their movements unnaturally smooth.
Whether that is a good or bad thing is, of course, subjective.
Having said that, it is fairly easy to tweak a 3D model, so I would not be surprised if Blizzard continues to tweak the models. If I were Blizzard, I would throw out a very simple, cartoony model of the right size for the gameplay team to work with. As the graphics team improves on the designs, the gameplay team can tweak balance issues, instead of the entire team being held hostage to graphics.
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The problem with "beam" animations, like that of the soul hunters, is that they form this carpet of... stuff.
With missiles, phase disruptors or anything else that fires in a short burst, when an army attacks, all these balls of energy/missiles/whatever will generally fire at different times, making the whole battle look chaotic and real. They also cause less clutter.
When a unit attacks with a beam, no matter when the units start firing, after a while, the whole area will be filled with beams and more beams that are all on screen at the same time.
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On June 13 2007 22:29 The Storyteller wrote:
IT LOOKS CARTOONY, and I can explain why.
Having worked with 3D graphics before, when a model is too smooth, it looks unnatural. In groping for the words to describe a look like that which does not exist in nature we tend to come up with words like "cartoony", "plastic" or just plain "unnatural".
If you look at the graphics of, say, Star Wars Episode 1, even though the graphics were stunning, there was a nagging feel that the characters were all too smooth to be real, and their movements were all too smooth to be real.
It is possible to have 3D characters that look natural. Diablo 3's cut scenes look very good, because the characters don't have, say, overly smooth skin. Nor are their movements unnaturally smooth.
Whether that is a good or bad thing is, of course, subjective.
Having said that, it is fairly easy to tweak a 3D model, so I would not be surprised if Blizzard continues to tweak the models. If I were Blizzard, I would throw out a very simple, cartoony model of the right size for the gameplay team to work with. As the graphics team improves on the designs, the gameplay team can tweak balance issues, instead of the entire team being held hostage to graphics.
YES! too plastic-ish, stubby characters/characteristics, colours are too bright/brilliant.
the more i see gameplay footage the more i see warcraft in space.
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^ That's very valid point there storyteller.
I do have some critisism's though, okay Soul-Hunter, disign looks cool, moves smooth, laser is pretty lame. But that's all fine. But how is it special in any way beside attacking? It moves like a walking wraprey, and is rather boring... what exactly does it do beside attacking w/ sapping lasers that makes it stand out? I cannot quite see...
Okay Tempest(Carriers) Looks fabulous design, but interceptors comes out wayy to late. It seems it has a warm-up stage. I do not like that at all. The art of carrier micro depends on the interceptors comes out immediately with in attacking range w/ out the carrier to stop. However, it seems that in the gameplay they need to stop before firing. Bad bad bad...
Again Twilight Archons: I cannot say much because it does not seem to have any spells or anything special, can it perhapes cloak? If so that'll rock, but in the video it kinda just did nothing and died. I'd rather keep my templar right? ~~
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EPT
