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insitelol
845 Posts
On May 30 2019 13:40 machinus wrote: Definitely one of the more boring seasons of GSL. Maru's dominance was just hiding the problem The problem of terrans being bad? I guess that's it, because the problem of terrans being whiny was not ever hidden. Especially those "10 posts terrans", you know? Half of them are avilo's smurfs though but still. | ||
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litLikeBic
Canada105 Posts
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
This will be another moment in history if 7 Protoss players qualifies for the Round of 8. It would make two consecutive Korean premier tournaments where 7 Protoss have made the Round of 8. | ||
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Veluvian
Bulgaria256 Posts
Sorry, but It has been more than two years of terrans winning Code S. If it's not for Classic, I will be extremely happy for Dark to take it all finally. To be honest in lower ladder leagues is bit of different of races balance and the way some pro-s dominate in the scene right now is only in top tier matches. This is an evolution I guess. We used to watch WhiteRa special tactics in WoL era with warp prisms but now pro-s use it like pure magic perfect immortal blink like nobody dared to dream before. | ||
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machinus
United States292 Posts
On May 30 2019 14:37 insitelol wrote: The problem of terrans being bad? I guess that's it, because the problem of terrans being whiny was not ever hidden. Especially those "10 posts terrans", you know? Half of them are avilo's smurfs though but still. Terran has major problems as a race. Sounds like you don't know much about SC2 | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On May 30 2019 17:20 machinus wrote: Terran has major problems as a race. Sounds like you don't know much about SC2 Race is definitely your problem according to this https://www.rankedftw.com/search/?name=Machinus | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12131 Posts
On May 30 2019 16:06 Veluvian wrote: Classic is on top. Hurricane defended perfectly against the early zergling rush of Ragnarok. Parting showed us some incredible new strats despite his controversial talking all the time. Those are pure individual successes, no patches victories. Sorry, but It has been more than two years of terrans winning Code S. If it's not for Classic, I will be extremely happy for Dark to take it all finally. To be honest in lower ladder leagues is bit of different of races balance and the way some pro-s dominate in the scene right now is only in top tier matches. This is an evolution I guess. We used to watch WhiteRa special tactics in WoL era with warp prisms but now pro-s use it like pure magic perfect immortal blink like nobody dared to dream before. Nobody is against Protoss winning the thing, but after the IEM, GSL ST and this Code S it really doesn't look like the game is in the healthiest stage. Terrans nowehere to be found + Zergs suffering in Korea. This can't be a coincidence tha we just broke the GomTvT record of player balance in the RO8. It's similar to the BL Infestor thing, Mvp was winning, Terrans were fine  (Maru was winning the Code S, Terran is fine) | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On May 30 2019 17:56 deacon.frost wrote: Nobody is against Protoss winning the thing, but after the IEM, GSL ST and this Code S it really doesn't look like the game is in the healthiest stage. Terrans nowehere to be found + Zergs suffering in Korea. This can't be a coincidence tha we just broke the GomTvT record of player balance in the RO8. It's similar to the BL Infestor thing, Mvp was winning, Terrans were fine (Maru was winning the Code S, Terran is fine)You can't really use IEM to point to protoss imbalance specifically when most of the top tier terrans were knocked out by Zergs and there was equal representation between Zerg and Protoss from the quarterfinals all the way up to the finals and protoss didn't even win said finals. | ||
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NspFancy
Korea (South)21 Posts
 User was warned for this post. | ||
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On May 30 2019 11:09 Xain0n wrote: Classic is the only acceptable Protoss all at once and everyone would be delighted now to see him win a Code S in his last year(after being underrated for his entire career), while herO who is most likely about to retire as well is half-active(low skilled, I guess)? PartinG actually came back from retirement, he's recovering, while Trap seems eventually on the verge of becoming a top player once that he is free from the towering shades of his teammates. Harry "GentleBreeze" Kane is probably the one who benefits the most from his meta, but he definitely earned his ro8 spot by dispatching Solar and Ragnarok. The sad thing is the disproportionate amount of whine and Protoss hate. Annnnnnd this is why no one respects you. Bury your head in the sand more. Protoss needs a nerf its completely obvious and u over here like "b b b but they all just gods..git good other races....ommmmg protoss has all the spots bb bb b but maru and serral win!?" | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12131 Posts
On May 30 2019 18:33 Z3nith wrote: You can't really use IEM to point to protoss imbalance specifically when most of the top tier terrans were knocked out by Zergs and there was equal representation between Zerg and Protoss from the quarterfinals all the way up to the finals and protoss didn't even win said finals. But I'm not pointing out Protoss imbalance What I'm saying is - Terran is in a bad place global-wise(IEM, ST, Code S). Zerg is in a bad state in Korea(ST, Code S). Because I don't know if the issue is in the Protoss(e.g. the most cited "op" thing - warp prism pick up range - how does this affect PvT?). IMO the issue is more complicated than "nurf Protoss, Protoss OP" And I don't see the solution(especially for PvT)On May 30 2019 20:43 DomeGetta wrote: Annnnnnd this is why no one respects you. Bury your head in the sand more. Protoss needs a nerf its completely obvious and u over here like "b b b but they all just gods..git good other races....ommmmg protoss has all the spots bb bb b but maru and serral win!?" You can always ignore him and don't reply to his post | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On May 30 2019 17:41 insitelol wrote: Race is definitely your problem according to this https://www.rankedftw.com/search/?name=Machinus Did not know about this site, thanks for sharing! Personally (diamond) I’m feeling ok right now in the game, but it does get somewhat disconcerting that I feel limited in my strategies as a Terran player—especially when I approach the later game. Always seems like there are 10 million ways to die vP in the first 10 minutes, and even if I’m getting drones vZ, Mech still seems so flimsy at a certain point. I know I’m not beyond my own mistakes causing me to lose, but it seems like the mistakes my opponents (of other races) make always have less of overall effect. | ||
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the caz dog
Australia17 Posts
Instead of reducing Protoss strength, it seems to have had minimal effect. Why? I think it's because Protoss players are better. Before you rush to downvote and flame, I'm not talking about mechanics, macro, micro, mini-map awareness, etc. I'm talking about the capacity to generate new and innovative builds as a community. I feel lucky to have picked a race that happens to be played by guys like sOs, MC, Day9, Parting, Artosis, Petit Drogo, Trap and even an unknown like Max Pax (and so many others I've left out). They aren't whiners, but rather, they all have made massive creative contributions to how Protoss is played at one time or another. Then there's guys like Gemini, distilling and distributing that knowledge to us lower league types. Can Terran and Zerg players say the same about their community leaders? I'm not so sure. And without the KESPA system, the meta is more volatile than I've ever seen, so having that community helping to solve problems is more important than ever before. Anyway, I think Protoss will be nerfed at some point. But we've just seen how nerfing Toss can just make them stronger. That only makes sense if there is some other factor at play - which could be something like the types of communities each respective race have cultivated. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On May 30 2019 20:52 deacon.frost wrote: But I'm not pointing out Protoss imbalance What I'm saying is - Terran is in a bad place global-wise(IEM, ST, Code S). Zerg is in a bad state in Korea(ST, Code S). Because I don't know if the issue is in the Protoss(e.g. the most cited "op" thing - warp prism pick up range - how does this affect PvT?). IMO the issue is more complicated than "nurf Protoss, Protoss OP" And I don't see the solution(especially for PvT)You can always ignore him and don't reply to his post PvT is chrono + late superior late game splash (upgrades + better tech = gg better all in) For this one you can't just nerf/buff in isolation - more difficult to solve. PvZ it's clearly the warp prism immortal juggling - needs to go. Marjory timing also needs to be messed with. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On May 30 2019 21:14 the caz dog wrote: The thing is Protoss just recently got a decent nerf across all matchups, including the Air Upgrades (which have never been a problem at any time). Instead of reducing Protoss strength, it seems to have had minimal effect. Why? I think it's because Protoss players are better. Before you rush to downvote and flame, I'm not talking about mechanics, macro, micro, mini-map awareness, etc. I'm talking about the capacity to generate new and innovative builds as a community. I feel lucky to have picked a race that happens to be played by guys like sOs, MC, Day9, Parting, Artosis, Petit Drogo, Trap and even an unknown like Max Pax (and so many others I've left out). They aren't whiners, but rather, they all have made massive creative contributions to how Protoss is played at one time or another. Then there's guys like Gemini, distilling and distributing that knowledge to us lower league types. Can Terran and Zerg players say the same about their community leaders? I'm not so sure. And without the KESPA system, the meta is more volatile than I've ever seen, so having that community helping to solve problems is more important than ever before. Anyway, I think Protoss will be nerfed at some point. But we've just seen how nerfing Toss can just make them stronger. That only makes sense if there is some other factor at play - which could be something like the types of communities each respective race have cultivated. Best troll post 2019? | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On May 30 2019 20:41 fronkschnonk wrote: Well, I'm almost always a fan of "let's wait how this develops" in balance questions. But at some point one has to admit due to mere statistics that Protoss probably is somewhat favored. I like how you tried to put it intelligently with "let it settle" stuff and then followed it with "buuuuut, you know, there is statistics". Nice try. Too bad there is no "statistics". Unless it includes 4 gsl terran titles in a row for korea and undeniable zerg dominance in eu for last couple of years. The only statistics worth mentioning here is the average mmr of terrans, who constantly whine about.. everything, i guess? | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On May 30 2019 21:35 insitelol wrote: I like how you tried to put it intelligently with "let it settle" stuff and then followed it with "buuuuut, you know, there is statistics". Nice try. Too bad there is no "statistics". Unless it includes 4 gsl terran titles in a row for korea and undiniable zerg dominance in eu for last couple of years. The only statistics worth mentioning here is the average mmr of terrans, who constantly whine about.. everything, i guess? Another imbecile stuck on 1 player winning GSL lmao. Race representation has been P heavy for 1.5 years - it's now at a ridiculous level - you can't hide anymore lmao. User was warned for this post | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12131 Posts
On May 30 2019 21:27 DomeGetta wrote: PvT is chrono + late superior late game splash (upgrades + better tech = gg better all in) For this one you can't just nerf/buff in isolation - more difficult to solve. PvZ it's clearly the warp prism immortal juggling - needs to go. Marjory timing also needs to be messed with. Chrono changes would break PvZ. That's why I want to see a change to Terrans rather than to Protoss. On May 30 2019 21:35 insitelol wrote: I like how you tried to put it intelligently with "let it settle" stuff and then followed it with "buuuuut, you know, there is statistics". Nice try. Too bad there is no "statistics". Unless it includes 4 gsl terran titles in a row for korea and undiniable zerg dominance in eu for last couple of years. The only statistics worth mentioning here is the average mmr of terrans, who constantly whine about.. everything, i guess? The last time I saw this type of argumentation was when Zerg was dominating everything with BL infestor but Mvp won some tournaments so everything was fine and the imbalance wasn't there. C'mon, we have heavy Protoss representation in several tournaments in a row, low Terran representation in several tournaments in a row, kinda low for Zergs too. And we're talking about tournaments with the best players possible. | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On May 30 2019 21:27 DomeGetta wrote: PvT is chrono + late superior late game splash (upgrades + better tech = gg better all in) For this one you can't just nerf/buff in isolation - more difficult to solve. PvZ it's clearly the warp prism immortal juggling - needs to go. Marjory timing also needs to be messed with. I would say the main problem with chrono is the ability to rush out upgrades and that affects both match ups. It's part of the reason timings are so prevalent in PvZ as the Protoss can get an upgrade lead early on and exploit that. Even a minor nerf would significantly offset this while also meaning that the Protoss economy doesn't get too far ahead of the Terran's which it has a propensity to do at the moment. I don't think you can nerf the splash of protoss without severely affecting PvZ and so perhaps I would say a buff to Terran would be more useful here. Maybe a unit like the liberator which doesn't see quite as much play in TvZ as far as I'm aware or perhaps a ghost buff which makes it more able to counter the likes of HT. Maybe rather than nerfing warp prism range, making the warp prism cost perhaps additional gas so that it takes longer to get out and by extension takes immortals longer to get out. This would severely nerf the timing attacks of protoss as, combined with the chrono nerf would make it so that the protoss attack hit later and with less immortals, giving zerg more time to counter it. However, in response to that you would absolutely need to buff protoss late game. Either through reverting the carrier or buffing the tempest a bit so that skytoss is a somewhat viable composition again. This would give Protoss an incentive to go into the late game rather than the timing attacks they are doing now. | ||
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