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On April 29 2019 08:59 IshinShishi wrote:
How can you make a case for Classic being above Maru when Maru heavily outclassed him in the finals? That wasnt even close.
Outclassed, huh? Anywho:
1. Classic has a title and a 2nd place this month. He dindt get the chance to compete in WESG
2. Maru has a title, 4th code S in a row, amazing run, history is written, we may never see this achievement again. And he got a first round knock-out + Show Spoiler +(from the guy who lost to the next guy, and that guy lost to Classic)
So gold+silver vs gold+nothing, and not much in the previous months. In Maru`s case due to shaky form, in Classic's case due to unable to make it to the event.
That's the case for it
You still like Maru because of the code S legacy? That's fine, but Classic's case for nr. 1 is as strong or stronger, at least you should see that much, even if u disagree with the conclusion.
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On April 29 2019 11:48 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 05:52 Xain0n wrote:On April 29 2019 04:19 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 29 2019 01:10 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 22:47 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list. Serral clearly can't be that high on the list. He didn't win anything this year. He made two finals appearances only in mediocre tournaments (WCS and WESG). He lost to soO Neeb, Inno twice, Reynor twice and big Gabe, showing weaknesses in all matchups. Is he bad? Certainly not. But his lack of results can't be tarnished by his 2018 success anymore. The idea of ranking Reynor as high as many are demanding is kind of weird. He has shown that he is excellent in ZvZ but he lost vs Creator and Gumiho in offline qualifiers at IEM, lost vs Neeb in Ro16 of WESG, lost vs Heromarine in groupstage of WCS Winter and lost his first match vs Marinelord (!) in WCS Spring. I really like Reynor and I think he can rise to the very top but he still hasn't proven his excellence vs. thoughest competition this year so far. On April 28 2019 21:47 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 20:19 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:06 Geo.Rion wrote:
[quote]
I didnt, it was won by #9. Neither had any notable results since then.
Stats went out as 4th in the first group stage in code S, and 3-0d in the 2nd round of ST.
and he beat the GSL winner who had previously smashed the 3 best PvTers back-to back-to back -no results. And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament.... right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice... Katowice(and Stats' results in 2018) explains why he already was in the list, the point here is why he didn't drop positions this month. Well, I'm not arguing exactly for Stats being ranked that high but I can understand the logic and don't think it's wrong per se. The only result of Stats since his great performance at IEM is GSL ST. The question would be: did he look bad enough at this tournament that one should think he's gotten worse? His win vs Maru who recently won vs all the top Protosses and threw a very effective and surprising mech style against him was really impressive. Not only because of the bare result but also because of his demonstrated skill ingame. He just played incredibly good and adjusted to Maru very well. Then he lost to Gumiho who made it to the finals. Can we say he's gotten worse because of this performance? Or isn't a Ro8 finish what you'd expect from a top4-player facing a really strong opponent in a tourney where almost all top10-players are participating? Serral got the benefit of the doubt in earlier PRs this year, Maru as well. It's just reasonable to do the same with Stats now. I would not necessarily have made Stats drop positions(most likely, especially because Gumiho 3-0d him while he was clearly favored), but it's weird that he didn't because it doesn't seem consistent with the criteria applied to other people on this list. Also, Gumiho jumping in at #5 seems excessive to me just as it is to leave Neeb out of this list(he'd deserve it over Dear, even at #10). I don't see the inconsistency: Serral had his chance to make a point for his case but he didn't and thus he got ranked lower after two PRs in which he was credited with the benefit of the doubt. Stats just made his point for the last PR and thus he also gets the benefit of the doubt now like Serral did. Same goes for Dark. I think that Dear over Neeb is reasonable, considering that Dear made it to Ro8 in both IEM and GSL after topping his tough groups while Neeb struggled to do so in IEM and WESG (which was the easier tournament). Losing to Zest in PvP in a Ro16 isn't enough information to instantly kick Dear down while Neeb did what he has to do at least to be considered somewhere near the top 10: win WCS winter NA. But yeah - Neeb, Dear, Inno and soO probably could be shuffled around. Gumiho being ranked 5th is a bold statement but it fits well in the recent PRs with soO instantly getting #1 after IEM and Maru now being 1# because of GSL. Also Inno got ranked #5 after his WESG victory, too. Serral was never given the benefit of the doubt: soO was skyrocketed at #1 from nowhere after Katowice, and the second place at WESG justified Serral not regressing any further in the following list; it's appropriate to scale him down after his losses this month, but I still see him in top5. Dark's month was disappointing, I would have had him drop more than two places. Inno got ranked #5, but now there is one more month of results in 2019 so it would be logical for Gumiho to enter the PR at least one step lower. Maru's progression is fine, he was just ranked too high in the last PR(and Classic maybe too low). Now you're denying facts for the sake of your argument. Of course Serral was given the benefit of the doubt. He got ranked #2 in the march PR after finishing in the Ro8 at IEM and losing to Inno in group stage. And he still got ranked #3 after losing to Reynor and Heromarine in group stage of WCS Winter and being beaten by Neeb in group stage of WESG (where he also made a case for himself by finishing 2nd). There are good arguments for having Serral still ranked that high back then, which includes that it seemed reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt. Dark month was disappointing, that's true. But after having rightfully earned a consistency #1 in the last PR it is consistent to give him the benefit of the doubt like it was done with Serral, Stats and Maru. How does being one month more into the year affect the PR? Most recent results are still the highest valued factor in PRs.
I am not denying anything. Before IEM(with 2018 results being the only one considered), Serral was #1 despite never figuring as such on a PR(although he was crowned best player of the year) with Maru being #2 and Stats #3; then Serral loses one pointless bo3(he already was first in the group) then is narrowly eliminated by the eventual winner and he immediately drops at #2 in the power ranking released shortly after? Maru did worse than him, Stats reached the finals but his 2018 achievements were not comparable to Serral's so that he could not earn the first spot(he was not given, in fact) while soO, who had one irrelevant 2018, was placed first. Are you convinced this was giving Serral the "benefit of the doubt"?
It's true that most recent results are valued more heavily but unlike the first tournament in 2019 whose sole comparison were 2018's one(rated much less), we have now a notable amount of tournaments played this year to consider; Gumiho's 2019 was not exactly great before Super Tournament so the leap he has made into the Power Ranking seems a little disproportioned(Inno's was fine since only IEM and groupstages were played before that while soO's seemed to me exaggerated as well).
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On April 29 2019 18:43 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 11:48 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 29 2019 05:52 Xain0n wrote:On April 29 2019 04:19 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 29 2019 01:10 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 22:47 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list. Serral clearly can't be that high on the list. He didn't win anything this year. He made two finals appearances only in mediocre tournaments (WCS and WESG). He lost to soO Neeb, Inno twice, Reynor twice and big Gabe, showing weaknesses in all matchups. Is he bad? Certainly not. But his lack of results can't be tarnished by his 2018 success anymore. The idea of ranking Reynor as high as many are demanding is kind of weird. He has shown that he is excellent in ZvZ but he lost vs Creator and Gumiho in offline qualifiers at IEM, lost vs Neeb in Ro16 of WESG, lost vs Heromarine in groupstage of WCS Winter and lost his first match vs Marinelord (!) in WCS Spring. I really like Reynor and I think he can rise to the very top but he still hasn't proven his excellence vs. thoughest competition this year so far. On April 28 2019 21:47 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 20:19 Charoisaur wrote:
[quote]
and he beat the GSL winner who had previously smashed the 3 best PvTers back-to back-to back
-no results.
And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament.... right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice... Katowice(and Stats' results in 2018) explains why he already was in the list, the point here is why he didn't drop positions this month. Well, I'm not arguing exactly for Stats being ranked that high but I can understand the logic and don't think it's wrong per se. The only result of Stats since his great performance at IEM is GSL ST. The question would be: did he look bad enough at this tournament that one should think he's gotten worse? His win vs Maru who recently won vs all the top Protosses and threw a very effective and surprising mech style against him was really impressive. Not only because of the bare result but also because of his demonstrated skill ingame. He just played incredibly good and adjusted to Maru very well. Then he lost to Gumiho who made it to the finals. Can we say he's gotten worse because of this performance? Or isn't a Ro8 finish what you'd expect from a top4-player facing a really strong opponent in a tourney where almost all top10-players are participating? Serral got the benefit of the doubt in earlier PRs this year, Maru as well. It's just reasonable to do the same with Stats now. I would not necessarily have made Stats drop positions(most likely, especially because Gumiho 3-0d him while he was clearly favored), but it's weird that he didn't because it doesn't seem consistent with the criteria applied to other people on this list. Also, Gumiho jumping in at #5 seems excessive to me just as it is to leave Neeb out of this list(he'd deserve it over Dear, even at #10). I don't see the inconsistency: Serral had his chance to make a point for his case but he didn't and thus he got ranked lower after two PRs in which he was credited with the benefit of the doubt. Stats just made his point for the last PR and thus he also gets the benefit of the doubt now like Serral did. Same goes for Dark. I think that Dear over Neeb is reasonable, considering that Dear made it to Ro8 in both IEM and GSL after topping his tough groups while Neeb struggled to do so in IEM and WESG (which was the easier tournament). Losing to Zest in PvP in a Ro16 isn't enough information to instantly kick Dear down while Neeb did what he has to do at least to be considered somewhere near the top 10: win WCS winter NA. But yeah - Neeb, Dear, Inno and soO probably could be shuffled around. Gumiho being ranked 5th is a bold statement but it fits well in the recent PRs with soO instantly getting #1 after IEM and Maru now being 1# because of GSL. Also Inno got ranked #5 after his WESG victory, too. Serral was never given the benefit of the doubt: soO was skyrocketed at #1 from nowhere after Katowice, and the second place at WESG justified Serral not regressing any further in the following list; it's appropriate to scale him down after his losses this month, but I still see him in top5. Dark's month was disappointing, I would have had him drop more than two places. Inno got ranked #5, but now there is one more month of results in 2019 so it would be logical for Gumiho to enter the PR at least one step lower. Maru's progression is fine, he was just ranked too high in the last PR(and Classic maybe too low). Now you're denying facts for the sake of your argument. Of course Serral was given the benefit of the doubt. He got ranked #2 in the march PR after finishing in the Ro8 at IEM and losing to Inno in group stage. And he still got ranked #3 after losing to Reynor and Heromarine in group stage of WCS Winter and being beaten by Neeb in group stage of WESG (where he also made a case for himself by finishing 2nd). There are good arguments for having Serral still ranked that high back then, which includes that it seemed reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt. Dark month was disappointing, that's true. But after having rightfully earned a consistency #1 in the last PR it is consistent to give him the benefit of the doubt like it was done with Serral, Stats and Maru. How does being one month more into the year affect the PR? Most recent results are still the highest valued factor in PRs. I am not denying anything. Before IEM(with 2018 results being the only one considered), Serral was #1 despite never figuring as such on a PR(although he was crowned best player of the year) with Maru being #2 and Stats #3; then Serral loses one pointless bo3(he already was first in the group) then is narrowly eliminated by the eventual winner and he immediately drops at #2 in the power ranking released shortly after? Maru did worse than him, Stats reached the finals but his 2018 achievements were not comparable to Serral's so that he could not earn the first spot(he was not given, in fact) while soO, who had one irrelevant 2018, was placed first. Are you convinced this was giving Serral the "benefit of the doubt"? It's true that most recent results are valued more heavily but unlike the first tournament in 2019 whose sole comparison were 2018's one(rated much less), we have now a notable amount of tournaments played this year to consider; Gumiho's 2019 was not exactly great before Super Tournament so the leap he has made into the Power Ranking seems a little disproportioned(Inno's was fine since only IEM and groupstages were played before that while soO's seemed to me exaggerated as well).
Yes, I'm convinced, because that's just an objectively measurable fact. A player that made it to the Ro8 got ranked 2nd in PR because of his prior achievements 3 months earlier. Without Serral performing that miraculously good in 2018 he wouldn't have been ranked that high. Not only soO but also Stats and Dark would've been ranked above him and it would've been a close call between Serral, Dear and herO.
I can somewhat understand the Gumi criticism but then again: I don't see, who should be ranked above him right now.
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On April 29 2019 18:54 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 18:43 Xain0n wrote:On April 29 2019 11:48 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 29 2019 05:52 Xain0n wrote:On April 29 2019 04:19 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 29 2019 01:10 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 22:47 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list. Serral clearly can't be that high on the list. He didn't win anything this year. He made two finals appearances only in mediocre tournaments (WCS and WESG). He lost to soO Neeb, Inno twice, Reynor twice and big Gabe, showing weaknesses in all matchups. Is he bad? Certainly not. But his lack of results can't be tarnished by his 2018 success anymore. The idea of ranking Reynor as high as many are demanding is kind of weird. He has shown that he is excellent in ZvZ but he lost vs Creator and Gumiho in offline qualifiers at IEM, lost vs Neeb in Ro16 of WESG, lost vs Heromarine in groupstage of WCS Winter and lost his first match vs Marinelord (!) in WCS Spring. I really like Reynor and I think he can rise to the very top but he still hasn't proven his excellence vs. thoughest competition this year so far. On April 28 2019 21:47 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote:
[quote]
And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament.... right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice... Katowice(and Stats' results in 2018) explains why he already was in the list, the point here is why he didn't drop positions this month. Well, I'm not arguing exactly for Stats being ranked that high but I can understand the logic and don't think it's wrong per se. The only result of Stats since his great performance at IEM is GSL ST. The question would be: did he look bad enough at this tournament that one should think he's gotten worse? His win vs Maru who recently won vs all the top Protosses and threw a very effective and surprising mech style against him was really impressive. Not only because of the bare result but also because of his demonstrated skill ingame. He just played incredibly good and adjusted to Maru very well. Then he lost to Gumiho who made it to the finals. Can we say he's gotten worse because of this performance? Or isn't a Ro8 finish what you'd expect from a top4-player facing a really strong opponent in a tourney where almost all top10-players are participating? Serral got the benefit of the doubt in earlier PRs this year, Maru as well. It's just reasonable to do the same with Stats now. I would not necessarily have made Stats drop positions(most likely, especially because Gumiho 3-0d him while he was clearly favored), but it's weird that he didn't because it doesn't seem consistent with the criteria applied to other people on this list. Also, Gumiho jumping in at #5 seems excessive to me just as it is to leave Neeb out of this list(he'd deserve it over Dear, even at #10). I don't see the inconsistency: Serral had his chance to make a point for his case but he didn't and thus he got ranked lower after two PRs in which he was credited with the benefit of the doubt. Stats just made his point for the last PR and thus he also gets the benefit of the doubt now like Serral did. Same goes for Dark. I think that Dear over Neeb is reasonable, considering that Dear made it to Ro8 in both IEM and GSL after topping his tough groups while Neeb struggled to do so in IEM and WESG (which was the easier tournament). Losing to Zest in PvP in a Ro16 isn't enough information to instantly kick Dear down while Neeb did what he has to do at least to be considered somewhere near the top 10: win WCS winter NA. But yeah - Neeb, Dear, Inno and soO probably could be shuffled around. Gumiho being ranked 5th is a bold statement but it fits well in the recent PRs with soO instantly getting #1 after IEM and Maru now being 1# because of GSL. Also Inno got ranked #5 after his WESG victory, too. Serral was never given the benefit of the doubt: soO was skyrocketed at #1 from nowhere after Katowice, and the second place at WESG justified Serral not regressing any further in the following list; it's appropriate to scale him down after his losses this month, but I still see him in top5. Dark's month was disappointing, I would have had him drop more than two places. Inno got ranked #5, but now there is one more month of results in 2019 so it would be logical for Gumiho to enter the PR at least one step lower. Maru's progression is fine, he was just ranked too high in the last PR(and Classic maybe too low). Now you're denying facts for the sake of your argument. Of course Serral was given the benefit of the doubt. He got ranked #2 in the march PR after finishing in the Ro8 at IEM and losing to Inno in group stage. And he still got ranked #3 after losing to Reynor and Heromarine in group stage of WCS Winter and being beaten by Neeb in group stage of WESG (where he also made a case for himself by finishing 2nd). There are good arguments for having Serral still ranked that high back then, which includes that it seemed reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt. Dark month was disappointing, that's true. But after having rightfully earned a consistency #1 in the last PR it is consistent to give him the benefit of the doubt like it was done with Serral, Stats and Maru. How does being one month more into the year affect the PR? Most recent results are still the highest valued factor in PRs. I am not denying anything. Before IEM(with 2018 results being the only one considered), Serral was #1 despite never figuring as such on a PR(although he was crowned best player of the year) with Maru being #2 and Stats #3; then Serral loses one pointless bo3(he already was first in the group) then is narrowly eliminated by the eventual winner and he immediately drops at #2 in the power ranking released shortly after? Maru did worse than him, Stats reached the finals but his 2018 achievements were not comparable to Serral's so that he could not earn the first spot(he was not given, in fact) while soO, who had one irrelevant 2018, was placed first. Are you convinced this was giving Serral the "benefit of the doubt"? It's true that most recent results are valued more heavily but unlike the first tournament in 2019 whose sole comparison were 2018's one(rated much less), we have now a notable amount of tournaments played this year to consider; Gumiho's 2019 was not exactly great before Super Tournament so the leap he has made into the Power Ranking seems a little disproportioned(Inno's was fine since only IEM and groupstages were played before that while soO's seemed to me exaggerated as well). Yes, I'm convinced, because that's just an objectively measurable fact. A player that made it to the Ro8 got ranked 2nd in PR because of his prior achievements 3 months earlier. Without Serral performing that miraculously good in 2018 he wouldn't have been ranked that high. Not only soO but also Stats and Dark would've been ranked above him and it would've been a close call between Serral, Dear and herO. I can somewhat understand the Gumi criticism but then again: I don't see, who should be ranked above him right now.
Try to guess  ! Gumiho did not even win the tournament, unlike Inno.
If those new power rankings in 2019 didn't have the premise of (supposedly)valuing past results more than the previous ones I would share your point of view; some of the players in the first Power Ranking were rated for their monthly performance only, like soO.
Serral had indeed to be given the benefit of the doubt and the first place; it did not happen.
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On April 29 2019 09:10 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 08:59 IshinShishi wrote:
How can you make a case for Classic being above Maru when Maru heavily outclassed him in the finals? That wasnt even close. at this point they really need to put a breakdown of why "player A beating player B in a series doesn't automatically mean they're a higher rank," in the OP of these, maybe with a graphic for people who need visual aids
Patience > Maru
--> Patience #1
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I knew somethings were really off about this power rank.
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Is there some kind of Power Ranking Curse? Right after being crowned #1, soO went out 0-4 of his ro16 group, Dark lost to Classic and Maru got eliminated in ro32.
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On April 30 2019 01:14 Xain0n wrote:
Is there some kind of Power Ranking Curse? Right after being crowned #1, soO went out 0-4 of his ro16 group, Dark lost to Classic and Maru got eliminated in ro32.
Definitely. I had the same feeling!
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On April 30 2019 02:11 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2019 01:14 Xain0n wrote:
Is there some kind of Power Ranking Curse? Right after being crowned #1, soO went out 0-4 of his ro16 group, Dark lost to Classic and Maru got eliminated in ro32. Definitely. I had the same feeling!
It s actually the writers timing the articles and rigging the games to generate debate and controversy, i keep telling u guys
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On April 30 2019 02:16 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2019 02:11 HolydaKing wrote:On April 30 2019 01:14 Xain0n wrote:
Is there some kind of Power Ranking Curse? Right after being crowned #1, soO went out 0-4 of his ro16 group, Dark lost to Classic and Maru got eliminated in ro32. Definitely. I had the same feeling! It s actually the writers timing the articles and rigging the games to generate debate and controversy, i keep telling u guys
Wicked TL writers, true agents of chaos.
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Germany3367 Posts
On April 30 2019 02:31 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2019 02:16 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 30 2019 02:11 HolydaKing wrote:On April 30 2019 01:14 Xain0n wrote:
Is there some kind of Power Ranking Curse? Right after being crowned #1, soO went out 0-4 of his ro16 group, Dark lost to Classic and Maru got eliminated in ro32. Definitely. I had the same feeling! It s actually the writers timing the articles and rigging the games to generate debate and controversy, i keep telling u guys Wicked TL writers, true agents of chaos.
Apparently we have become more powerful than we could've ever imagined.
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On April 30 2019 02:49 TheOneAboveU wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2019 02:31 Xain0n wrote:On April 30 2019 02:16 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 30 2019 02:11 HolydaKing wrote:On April 30 2019 01:14 Xain0n wrote:
Is there some kind of Power Ranking Curse? Right after being crowned #1, soO went out 0-4 of his ro16 group, Dark lost to Classic and Maru got eliminated in ro32. Definitely. I had the same feeling! It s actually the writers timing the articles and rigging the games to generate debate and controversy, i keep telling u guys Wicked TL writers, true agents of chaos. Apparently we have become more powerful than we could've ever imagined.
Holy shit you're ghosts?
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On April 30 2019 02:49 TheOneAboveU wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2019 02:31 Xain0n wrote:On April 30 2019 02:16 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 30 2019 02:11 HolydaKing wrote:On April 30 2019 01:14 Xain0n wrote:
Is there some kind of Power Ranking Curse? Right after being crowned #1, soO went out 0-4 of his ro16 group, Dark lost to Classic and Maru got eliminated in ro32. Definitely. I had the same feeling! It s actually the writers timing the articles and rigging the games to generate debate and controversy, i keep telling u guys Wicked TL writers, true agents of chaos. Apparently we have become more powerful than we could've ever imagined.
Is it possible to learn this power?
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Germany3367 Posts
On April 30 2019 03:01 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2019 02:49 TheOneAboveU wrote:On April 30 2019 02:31 Xain0n wrote:On April 30 2019 02:16 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 30 2019 02:11 HolydaKing wrote:On April 30 2019 01:14 Xain0n wrote:
Is there some kind of Power Ranking Curse? Right after being crowned #1, soO went out 0-4 of his ro16 group, Dark lost to Classic and Maru got eliminated in ro32. Definitely. I had the same feeling! It s actually the writers timing the articles and rigging the games to generate debate and controversy, i keep telling u guys Wicked TL writers, true agents of chaos. Apparently we have become more powerful than we could've ever imagined. Holy shit you're ghosts?
How else could we travel into the future to see the results and then predict the opposite?
And, pvsnp: Not for a TL+ Member. (You need that sweet TL-, it's a path to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.)
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On April 30 2019 03:29 TheOneAboveU wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2019 03:01 Elentos wrote:On April 30 2019 02:49 TheOneAboveU wrote:On April 30 2019 02:31 Xain0n wrote:On April 30 2019 02:16 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 30 2019 02:11 HolydaKing wrote:On April 30 2019 01:14 Xain0n wrote:
Is there some kind of Power Ranking Curse? Right after being crowned #1, soO went out 0-4 of his ro16 group, Dark lost to Classic and Maru got eliminated in ro32. Definitely. I had the same feeling! It s actually the writers timing the articles and rigging the games to generate debate and controversy, i keep telling u guys Wicked TL writers, true agents of chaos. Apparently we have become more powerful than we could've ever imagined. Holy shit you're ghosts? How else could we travel into the future to see the results and then predict the opposite? And, pvsnp: Not for a TL+ Member. (You need that sweet TL-, it's a path to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.)
This is outrageous. It's unfair.
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Would expect to see Marus ranking fall considerably next PR to maintain consistency with:
1) soO and Innos plummeted ranks after their wins
2)the fact that Serral's BlizzCon and HSC are seemingly not recent enough to be relevant anymore, therefore Marus first 3 GSLs are obviously out of scope for consideration as well, being well over 6 months ago.
3) Marus lackluster performance in every other non-GSL tournament.
It's obviously a bit early to call ranks without seeing how May progresses, but it'd be controversial to put Maru in top 5 based on the above I think. I guess there's fewer tournaments in May so he might hit 4th/5th.
Also given today's results are still in April it's a bit unfortunate that Marus fall from GSL wasn't considered in the May Power Rankings - Classic really was the ultimate April winner in my eyes.
Thanks for content TL writers.
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On April 30 2019 05:40 Dave4 wrote:
Would expect to see Marus ranking fall considerably next PR to maintain consistency with:
1) soO and Innos plummeted ranks after their wins
2)the fact that Serral's BlizzCon and HSC are seemingly not recent enough to be relevant anymore, therefore Marus first 3 GSLs are obviously out of scope for consideration as well, being well over 6 months ago.
3) Marus lackluster performance in every other non-GSL tournament.
It's obviously a bit early to call ranks without seeing how May progresses, but it'd be controversial to put Maru in top 5 based on the above I think. I guess there's fewer tournaments in May so he might hit 4th/5th.
Also given today's results are still in April it's a bit unfortunate that Marus fall from GSL wasn't considered in the May Power Rankings - Classic really was the ultimate April winner in my eyes.
Thanks for content TL writers.
It would also need someone else to really shine.
GSL will be in Ro8 somewhere and WCS Spring will conclude in May, so maybe we will get some recency bias for foreigners (Neeb and Reynor <3) this time 
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On April 30 2019 05:40 Dave4 wrote:
Would expect to see Marus ranking fall considerably next PR to maintain consistency with:
1) soO and Innos plummeted ranks after their wins
2)the fact that Serral's BlizzCon and HSC are seemingly not recent enough to be relevant anymore, therefore Marus first 3 GSLs are obviously out of scope for consideration as well, being well over 6 months ago.
3) Marus lackluster performance in every other non-GSL tournament.
It's obviously a bit early to call ranks without seeing how May progresses, but it'd be controversial to put Maru in top 5 based on the above I think. I guess there's fewer tournaments in May so he might hit 4th/5th.
Also given today's results are still in April it's a bit unfortunate that Marus fall from GSL wasn't considered in the May Power Rankings - Classic really was the ultimate April winner in my eyes.
Thanks for content TL writers.
If 2) would be true, Serral wouldn't be in the top 10.
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On April 29 2019 19:06 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 18:54 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 29 2019 18:43 Xain0n wrote:On April 29 2019 11:48 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 29 2019 05:52 Xain0n wrote:On April 29 2019 04:19 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 29 2019 01:10 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 22:47 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list. Serral clearly can't be that high on the list. He didn't win anything this year. He made two finals appearances only in mediocre tournaments (WCS and WESG). He lost to soO Neeb, Inno twice, Reynor twice and big Gabe, showing weaknesses in all matchups. Is he bad? Certainly not. But his lack of results can't be tarnished by his 2018 success anymore. The idea of ranking Reynor as high as many are demanding is kind of weird. He has shown that he is excellent in ZvZ but he lost vs Creator and Gumiho in offline qualifiers at IEM, lost vs Neeb in Ro16 of WESG, lost vs Heromarine in groupstage of WCS Winter and lost his first match vs Marinelord (!) in WCS Spring. I really like Reynor and I think he can rise to the very top but he still hasn't proven his excellence vs. thoughest competition this year so far. On April 28 2019 21:47 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:
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right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice...
Katowice(and Stats' results in 2018) explains why he already was in the list, the point here is why he didn't drop positions this month. Well, I'm not arguing exactly for Stats being ranked that high but I can understand the logic and don't think it's wrong per se. The only result of Stats since his great performance at IEM is GSL ST. The question would be: did he look bad enough at this tournament that one should think he's gotten worse? His win vs Maru who recently won vs all the top Protosses and threw a very effective and surprising mech style against him was really impressive. Not only because of the bare result but also because of his demonstrated skill ingame. He just played incredibly good and adjusted to Maru very well. Then he lost to Gumiho who made it to the finals. Can we say he's gotten worse because of this performance? Or isn't a Ro8 finish what you'd expect from a top4-player facing a really strong opponent in a tourney where almost all top10-players are participating? Serral got the benefit of the doubt in earlier PRs this year, Maru as well. It's just reasonable to do the same with Stats now. I would not necessarily have made Stats drop positions(most likely, especially because Gumiho 3-0d him while he was clearly favored), but it's weird that he didn't because it doesn't seem consistent with the criteria applied to other people on this list. Also, Gumiho jumping in at #5 seems excessive to me just as it is to leave Neeb out of this list(he'd deserve it over Dear, even at #10). I don't see the inconsistency: Serral had his chance to make a point for his case but he didn't and thus he got ranked lower after two PRs in which he was credited with the benefit of the doubt. Stats just made his point for the last PR and thus he also gets the benefit of the doubt now like Serral did. Same goes for Dark. I think that Dear over Neeb is reasonable, considering that Dear made it to Ro8 in both IEM and GSL after topping his tough groups while Neeb struggled to do so in IEM and WESG (which was the easier tournament). Losing to Zest in PvP in a Ro16 isn't enough information to instantly kick Dear down while Neeb did what he has to do at least to be considered somewhere near the top 10: win WCS winter NA. But yeah - Neeb, Dear, Inno and soO probably could be shuffled around. Gumiho being ranked 5th is a bold statement but it fits well in the recent PRs with soO instantly getting #1 after IEM and Maru now being 1# because of GSL. Also Inno got ranked #5 after his WESG victory, too. Serral was never given the benefit of the doubt: soO was skyrocketed at #1 from nowhere after Katowice, and the second place at WESG justified Serral not regressing any further in the following list; it's appropriate to scale him down after his losses this month, but I still see him in top5. Dark's month was disappointing, I would have had him drop more than two places. Inno got ranked #5, but now there is one more month of results in 2019 so it would be logical for Gumiho to enter the PR at least one step lower. Maru's progression is fine, he was just ranked too high in the last PR(and Classic maybe too low). Now you're denying facts for the sake of your argument. Of course Serral was given the benefit of the doubt. He got ranked #2 in the march PR after finishing in the Ro8 at IEM and losing to Inno in group stage. And he still got ranked #3 after losing to Reynor and Heromarine in group stage of WCS Winter and being beaten by Neeb in group stage of WESG (where he also made a case for himself by finishing 2nd). There are good arguments for having Serral still ranked that high back then, which includes that it seemed reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt. Dark month was disappointing, that's true. But after having rightfully earned a consistency #1 in the last PR it is consistent to give him the benefit of the doubt like it was done with Serral, Stats and Maru. How does being one month more into the year affect the PR? Most recent results are still the highest valued factor in PRs. I am not denying anything. Before IEM(with 2018 results being the only one considered), Serral was #1 despite never figuring as such on a PR(although he was crowned best player of the year) with Maru being #2 and Stats #3; then Serral loses one pointless bo3(he already was first in the group) then is narrowly eliminated by the eventual winner and he immediately drops at #2 in the power ranking released shortly after? Maru did worse than him, Stats reached the finals but his 2018 achievements were not comparable to Serral's so that he could not earn the first spot(he was not given, in fact) while soO, who had one irrelevant 2018, was placed first. Are you convinced this was giving Serral the "benefit of the doubt"? It's true that most recent results are valued more heavily but unlike the first tournament in 2019 whose sole comparison were 2018's one(rated much less), we have now a notable amount of tournaments played this year to consider; Gumiho's 2019 was not exactly great before Super Tournament so the leap he has made into the Power Ranking seems a little disproportioned(Inno's was fine since only IEM and groupstages were played before that while soO's seemed to me exaggerated as well). Yes, I'm convinced, because that's just an objectively measurable fact. A player that made it to the Ro8 got ranked 2nd in PR because of his prior achievements 3 months earlier. Without Serral performing that miraculously good in 2018 he wouldn't have been ranked that high. Not only soO but also Stats and Dark would've been ranked above him and it would've been a close call between Serral, Dear and herO. I can somewhat understand the Gumi criticism but then again: I don't see, who should be ranked above him right now. Try to guess ! Gumiho did not even win the tournament, unlike Inno. If those new power rankings in 2019 didn't have the premise of (supposedly)valuing past results more than the previous ones I would share your point of view; some of the players in the first Power Ranking were rated for their monthly performance only, like soO. Serral had indeed to be given the benefit of the doubt and the first place; it did not happen.
Yes, Gumiho didn't win unlike Inno but Inno didn't even qualify and also WESG had a much easier player pool and therefore their achievements are comparable.
And again regarding Serral in first PR this year: Serral was given the benefit of the doubt -just not as much as you would've liked it. Consistency is a factor, but it can't outmatch most recent results - especially if the consistency was proven 3 months ago.
Also soO wasn't only rated for his monthly performance. He also topped his GSL group before IEM and had very good online results since mid december. Online results are not as important of course but they can give a more solid picture when there is uncertainty about a ranking.
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maru still #1 if this power ranking came out today?
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EPT
