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On April 28 2019 20:19 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2019 20:06 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:59 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 19:56 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:10 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 18:39 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 16:33 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 16:09 fastr wrote:
Thanks to the writers for providing this new power rank, it's always fun to read some of the more opinionated responses to those. I have some thoughts on some of the rankings I disagree with.
INnoVation: 10 is too low, I have him at 7. Yes he's had a shaky month and failing to qualify for any tournament is unworthy of him, but look at the context of his losses. You rightfully mention Dear's weakness in PvP yet Dear got a generous rank 8. Inno failed to qualify because he lost to sOs and Parting, both protoss, both finished top 4 in the tournament. You then mention his loss in code S ro16, but you fail to mention that he was in a group with 3 protoss, including Classic and Trap, rank 2 and 7 respectively. Balance whine aside, the pattern is clear, Inno only lost TvP, and always to very strong protoss. Hence why I think 10 is a harsh rank for him.
Serral: After winning Blizzcon 2018, Serral had a strong case for best player in the world. After 4 months of 2019 gone by, it's clear that he's not in the discussion anymore. Should he be out of the top 5? I'd argue no. I have him at 4. Dark still at 3 after a ro16 super tournament exit is puzzling to me. I'd argue that Serral is still the best zerg in the world and Dark has no business being in the top 3 after choking his 2 most recent tournament exits.
For the rest, I agree with Maru and Classic at 1 and 2 respectively, though I wouldn't be shocked to see Classic at the first spot. Stats is still a big question mark but 4 is fair after his fantastic series against Maru. Gumiho at 5 might be generous, but he had such a fantastic run to the finals that I won't argue against it.
Dark lost to Gumiho and Classic. Serral lost to Heromarine and Reynor. I'd say Serral was much more disappointing this month. Funny how that works, Maru loses to Stats in a close series. The loss doesnt hinder Maru and the match gives a struggling Stats 4th place. Both come out ahead off of it. Reynor beats Serral in close series (with impressive new builds), it means Serral is slumping hard, and it doesnt mean Reynor is top 10 now. They both come out behind off of it. #TLforeignerbias turns out Power Rank isn't based on the performance in a single tournament - what a shocker. Maybe it has to do with the fact Maru just comes fresh of a GSL victory while Serral has shown nothing really impressive so far this year and is 1-5 against the top 12 players according to this list? Feel free to explain how Stats has better tournament results in the past 6 months than the 6 people behind him did you miss IEM Katowice? I didnt, it was won by #9. Neither had any notable results since then. Stats went out as 4th in the first group stage in code S, and 3-0d in the 2nd round of ST. and he beat the GSL winner who had previously smashed the 3 best PvTers back-to back-to back -no results.
And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament....
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On April 28 2019 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2019 20:19 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:06 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:59 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 19:56 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:10 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 18:39 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 16:33 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 16:09 fastr wrote:
Thanks to the writers for providing this new power rank, it's always fun to read some of the more opinionated responses to those. I have some thoughts on some of the rankings I disagree with.
INnoVation: 10 is too low, I have him at 7. Yes he's had a shaky month and failing to qualify for any tournament is unworthy of him, but look at the context of his losses. You rightfully mention Dear's weakness in PvP yet Dear got a generous rank 8. Inno failed to qualify because he lost to sOs and Parting, both protoss, both finished top 4 in the tournament. You then mention his loss in code S ro16, but you fail to mention that he was in a group with 3 protoss, including Classic and Trap, rank 2 and 7 respectively. Balance whine aside, the pattern is clear, Inno only lost TvP, and always to very strong protoss. Hence why I think 10 is a harsh rank for him.
Serral: After winning Blizzcon 2018, Serral had a strong case for best player in the world. After 4 months of 2019 gone by, it's clear that he's not in the discussion anymore. Should he be out of the top 5? I'd argue no. I have him at 4. Dark still at 3 after a ro16 super tournament exit is puzzling to me. I'd argue that Serral is still the best zerg in the world and Dark has no business being in the top 3 after choking his 2 most recent tournament exits.
For the rest, I agree with Maru and Classic at 1 and 2 respectively, though I wouldn't be shocked to see Classic at the first spot. Stats is still a big question mark but 4 is fair after his fantastic series against Maru. Gumiho at 5 might be generous, but he had such a fantastic run to the finals that I won't argue against it.
Dark lost to Gumiho and Classic. Serral lost to Heromarine and Reynor. I'd say Serral was much more disappointing this month. Funny how that works, Maru loses to Stats in a close series. The loss doesnt hinder Maru and the match gives a struggling Stats 4th place. Both come out ahead off of it. Reynor beats Serral in close series (with impressive new builds), it means Serral is slumping hard, and it doesnt mean Reynor is top 10 now. They both come out behind off of it. #TLforeignerbias turns out Power Rank isn't based on the performance in a single tournament - what a shocker. Maybe it has to do with the fact Maru just comes fresh of a GSL victory while Serral has shown nothing really impressive so far this year and is 1-5 against the top 12 players according to this list? Feel free to explain how Stats has better tournament results in the past 6 months than the 6 people behind him did you miss IEM Katowice? I didnt, it was won by #9. Neither had any notable results since then. Stats went out as 4th in the first group stage in code S, and 3-0d in the 2nd round of ST. and he beat the GSL winner who had previously smashed the 3 best PvTers back-to back-to back -no results. And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament....
right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice...
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On April 28 2019 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2019 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 20:19 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:06 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:59 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 19:56 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:10 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 18:39 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 16:33 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 16:09 fastr wrote:
Thanks to the writers for providing this new power rank, it's always fun to read some of the more opinionated responses to those. I have some thoughts on some of the rankings I disagree with.
INnoVation: 10 is too low, I have him at 7. Yes he's had a shaky month and failing to qualify for any tournament is unworthy of him, but look at the context of his losses. You rightfully mention Dear's weakness in PvP yet Dear got a generous rank 8. Inno failed to qualify because he lost to sOs and Parting, both protoss, both finished top 4 in the tournament. You then mention his loss in code S ro16, but you fail to mention that he was in a group with 3 protoss, including Classic and Trap, rank 2 and 7 respectively. Balance whine aside, the pattern is clear, Inno only lost TvP, and always to very strong protoss. Hence why I think 10 is a harsh rank for him.
Serral: After winning Blizzcon 2018, Serral had a strong case for best player in the world. After 4 months of 2019 gone by, it's clear that he's not in the discussion anymore. Should he be out of the top 5? I'd argue no. I have him at 4. Dark still at 3 after a ro16 super tournament exit is puzzling to me. I'd argue that Serral is still the best zerg in the world and Dark has no business being in the top 3 after choking his 2 most recent tournament exits.
For the rest, I agree with Maru and Classic at 1 and 2 respectively, though I wouldn't be shocked to see Classic at the first spot. Stats is still a big question mark but 4 is fair after his fantastic series against Maru. Gumiho at 5 might be generous, but he had such a fantastic run to the finals that I won't argue against it.
Dark lost to Gumiho and Classic. Serral lost to Heromarine and Reynor. I'd say Serral was much more disappointing this month. Funny how that works, Maru loses to Stats in a close series. The loss doesnt hinder Maru and the match gives a struggling Stats 4th place. Both come out ahead off of it. Reynor beats Serral in close series (with impressive new builds), it means Serral is slumping hard, and it doesnt mean Reynor is top 10 now. They both come out behind off of it. #TLforeignerbias turns out Power Rank isn't based on the performance in a single tournament - what a shocker. Maybe it has to do with the fact Maru just comes fresh of a GSL victory while Serral has shown nothing really impressive so far this year and is 1-5 against the top 12 players according to this list? Feel free to explain how Stats has better tournament results in the past 6 months than the 6 people behind him did you miss IEM Katowice? I didnt, it was won by #9. Neither had any notable results since then. Stats went out as 4th in the first group stage in code S, and 3-0d in the 2nd round of ST. and he beat the GSL winner who had previously smashed the 3 best PvTers back-to back-to back -no results. And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament.... right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice...
Katowice(and Stats' results in 2018) explains why he already was in the list, the point here is why he didn't drop positions this month.
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On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list.
I will be interested in betting against Serral/Maru bizzcon finals/win any time you want 
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On April 28 2019 13:02 ZertoN wrote:
serral could retire today and in the power ranking of september 2021 he'd somehow come in at #8. then the hardcore fanboys would ask how come he's rated so low
I don´t think so, but i laughed at this post :D There is some truth to it, good job! The same would apply to some other players aswell though.
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On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list.
Serral clearly can't be that high on the list. He didn't win anything this year. He made two finals appearances only in mediocre tournaments (WCS and WESG). He lost to soO Neeb, Inno twice, Reynor twice and big Gabe, showing weaknesses in all matchups. Is he bad? Certainly not. But his lack of results can't be tarnished by his 2018 success anymore.
The idea of ranking Reynor as high as many are demanding is kind of weird. He has shown that he is excellent in ZvZ but he lost vs Creator and Gumiho in offline qualifiers at IEM, lost vs Neeb in Ro16 of WESG, lost vs Heromarine in groupstage of WCS Winter and lost his first match vs Marinelord (!) in WCS Spring. I really like Reynor and I think he can rise to the very top but he still hasn't proven his excellence vs. thoughest competition this year so far.
On April 28 2019 21:47 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2019 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 20:19 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:06 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:59 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 19:56 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:10 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 18:39 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 16:33 Charoisaur wrote:
[quote]
Dark lost to Gumiho and Classic. Serral lost to Heromarine and Reynor. I'd say Serral was much more disappointing this month.
Funny how that works, Maru loses to Stats in a close series. The loss doesnt hinder Maru and the match gives a struggling Stats 4th place. Both come out ahead off of it. Reynor beats Serral in close series (with impressive new builds), it means Serral is slumping hard, and it doesnt mean Reynor is top 10 now. They both come out behind off of it. #TLforeignerbias turns out Power Rank isn't based on the performance in a single tournament - what a shocker. Maybe it has to do with the fact Maru just comes fresh of a GSL victory while Serral has shown nothing really impressive so far this year and is 1-5 against the top 12 players according to this list? Feel free to explain how Stats has better tournament results in the past 6 months than the 6 people behind him did you miss IEM Katowice? I didnt, it was won by #9. Neither had any notable results since then. Stats went out as 4th in the first group stage in code S, and 3-0d in the 2nd round of ST. and he beat the GSL winner who had previously smashed the 3 best PvTers back-to back-to back -no results. And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament.... right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice... Katowice(and Stats' results in 2018) explains why he already was in the list, the point here is why he didn't drop positions this month.
Well, I'm not arguing exactly for Stats being ranked that high but I can understand the logic and don't think it's wrong per se. The only result of Stats since his great performance at IEM is GSL ST. The question would be: did he look bad enough at this tournament that one should think he's gotten worse? His win vs Maru who recently won vs all the top Protosses and threw a very effective and surprising mech style against him was really impressive. Not only because of the bare result but also because of his demonstrated skill ingame. He just played incredibly good and adjusted to Maru very well. Then he lost to Gumiho who made it to the finals. Can we say he's gotten worse because of this performance? Or isn't a Ro8 finish what you'd expect from a top4-player facing a really strong opponent in a tourney where almost all top10-players are participating? Serral got the benefit of the doubt in earlier PRs this year, Maru as well. It's just reasonable to do the same with Stats now.
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Reynor and Neeb should definitely be in here, other than that the rankings seem fine to me.
Serral is still a world class player, what you acknowledge in your ranking, and Reynor showed he is on the same level and even beat him, Neeb beat him too recently and also won against Scarlett.
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On April 28 2019 22:47 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list. Serral clearly can't be that high on the list. He didn't win anything this year. He made two finals appearances only in mediocre tournaments (WCS and WESG). He lost to soO Neeb, Inno twice, Reynor twice and big Gabe, showing weaknesses in all matchups. Is he bad? Certainly not. But his lack of results can't be tarnished by his 2018 success anymore. The idea of ranking Reynor as high as many are demanding is kind of weird. He has shown that he is excellent in ZvZ but he lost vs Creator and Gumiho in offline qualifiers at IEM, lost vs Neeb in Ro16 of WESG, lost vs Heromarine in groupstage of WCS Winter and lost his first match vs Marinelord (!) in WCS Spring. I really like Reynor and I think he can rise to the very top but he still hasn't proven his excellence vs. thoughest competition this year so far. Show nested quote +On April 28 2019 21:47 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 20:19 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:06 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:59 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 19:56 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:10 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 18:39 Geo.Rion wrote:
[quote]
Funny how that works, Maru loses to Stats in a close series. The loss doesnt hinder Maru and the match gives a struggling Stats 4th place. Both come out ahead off of it.
Reynor beats Serral in close series (with impressive new builds), it means Serral is slumping hard, and it doesnt mean Reynor is top 10 now. They both come out behind off of it.
#TLforeignerbias turns out Power Rank isn't based on the performance in a single tournament - what a shocker. Maybe it has to do with the fact Maru just comes fresh of a GSL victory while Serral has shown nothing really impressive so far this year and is 1-5 against the top 12 players according to this list? Feel free to explain how Stats has better tournament results in the past 6 months than the 6 people behind him did you miss IEM Katowice? I didnt, it was won by #9. Neither had any notable results since then. Stats went out as 4th in the first group stage in code S, and 3-0d in the 2nd round of ST. and he beat the GSL winner who had previously smashed the 3 best PvTers back-to back-to back -no results. And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament.... right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice... Katowice(and Stats' results in 2018) explains why he already was in the list, the point here is why he didn't drop positions this month. Well, I'm not arguing exactly for Stats being ranked that high but I can understand the logic and don't think it's wrong per se. The only result of Stats since his great performance at IEM is GSL ST. The question would be: did he look bad enough at this tournament that one should think he's gotten worse? His win vs Maru who recently won vs all the top Protosses and threw a very effective and surprising mech style against him was really impressive. Not only because of the bare result but also because of his demonstrated skill ingame. He just played incredibly good and adjusted to Maru very well. Then he lost to Gumiho who made it to the finals. Can we say he's gotten worse because of this performance? Or isn't a Ro8 finish what you'd expect from a top4-player facing a really strong opponent in a tourney where almost all top10-players are participating? Serral got the benefit of the doubt in earlier PRs this year, Maru as well. It's just reasonable to do the same with Stats now.
I would not necessarily have made Stats drop positions(most likely, especially because Gumiho 3-0d him while he was clearly favored), but it's weird that he didn't because it doesn't seem consistent with the criteria applied to other people on this list.
Also, Gumiho jumping in at #5 seems excessive to me just as it is to leave Neeb out of this list(he'd deserve it over Dear, even at #10).
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For me Power ranking doesn't really matter. But I quite like the write-up and especially reading the comments after that. Keep up the good work.
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On April 29 2019 01:10 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2019 22:47 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list. Serral clearly can't be that high on the list. He didn't win anything this year. He made two finals appearances only in mediocre tournaments (WCS and WESG). He lost to soO Neeb, Inno twice, Reynor twice and big Gabe, showing weaknesses in all matchups. Is he bad? Certainly not. But his lack of results can't be tarnished by his 2018 success anymore. The idea of ranking Reynor as high as many are demanding is kind of weird. He has shown that he is excellent in ZvZ but he lost vs Creator and Gumiho in offline qualifiers at IEM, lost vs Neeb in Ro16 of WESG, lost vs Heromarine in groupstage of WCS Winter and lost his first match vs Marinelord (!) in WCS Spring. I really like Reynor and I think he can rise to the very top but he still hasn't proven his excellence vs. thoughest competition this year so far. On April 28 2019 21:47 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 20:19 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:06 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:59 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 19:56 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:10 Charoisaur wrote:
[quote]
turns out Power Rank isn't based on the performance in a single tournament - what a shocker.
Maybe it has to do with the fact Maru just comes fresh of a GSL victory while Serral has shown nothing really impressive so far this year and is 1-5 against the top 12 players according to this list? Feel free to explain how Stats has better tournament results in the past 6 months than the 6 people behind him did you miss IEM Katowice? I didnt, it was won by #9. Neither had any notable results since then. Stats went out as 4th in the first group stage in code S, and 3-0d in the 2nd round of ST. and he beat the GSL winner who had previously smashed the 3 best PvTers back-to back-to back -no results. And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament.... right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice... Katowice(and Stats' results in 2018) explains why he already was in the list, the point here is why he didn't drop positions this month. Well, I'm not arguing exactly for Stats being ranked that high but I can understand the logic and don't think it's wrong per se. The only result of Stats since his great performance at IEM is GSL ST. The question would be: did he look bad enough at this tournament that one should think he's gotten worse? His win vs Maru who recently won vs all the top Protosses and threw a very effective and surprising mech style against him was really impressive. Not only because of the bare result but also because of his demonstrated skill ingame. He just played incredibly good and adjusted to Maru very well. Then he lost to Gumiho who made it to the finals. Can we say he's gotten worse because of this performance? Or isn't a Ro8 finish what you'd expect from a top4-player facing a really strong opponent in a tourney where almost all top10-players are participating? Serral got the benefit of the doubt in earlier PRs this year, Maru as well. It's just reasonable to do the same with Stats now. I would not necessarily have made Stats drop positions(most likely, especially because Gumiho 3-0d him while he was clearly favored), but it's weird that he didn't because it doesn't seem consistent with the criteria applied to other people on this list. Also, Gumiho jumping in at #5 seems excessive to me just as it is to leave Neeb out of this list(he'd deserve it over Dear, even at #10).
I don't see the inconsistency: Serral had his chance to make a point for his case but he didn't and thus he got ranked lower after two PRs in which he was credited with the benefit of the doubt. Stats just made his point for the last PR and thus he also gets the benefit of the doubt now like Serral did. Same goes for Dark.
I think that Dear over Neeb is reasonable, considering that Dear made it to Ro8 in both IEM and GSL after topping his tough groups while Neeb struggled to do so in IEM and WESG (which was the easier tournament). Losing to Zest in PvP in a Ro16 isn't enough information to instantly kick Dear down while Neeb did what he has to do at least to be considered somewhere near the top 10: win WCS winter NA. But yeah - Neeb, Dear, Inno and soO probably could be shuffled around.
Gumiho being ranked 5th is a bold statement but it fits well in the recent PRs with soO instantly getting #1 after IEM and Maru now being 1# because of GSL. Also Inno got ranked #5 after his WESG victory, too.
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On April 29 2019 04:19 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 01:10 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 22:47 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list. Serral clearly can't be that high on the list. He didn't win anything this year. He made two finals appearances only in mediocre tournaments (WCS and WESG). He lost to soO Neeb, Inno twice, Reynor twice and big Gabe, showing weaknesses in all matchups. Is he bad? Certainly not. But his lack of results can't be tarnished by his 2018 success anymore. The idea of ranking Reynor as high as many are demanding is kind of weird. He has shown that he is excellent in ZvZ but he lost vs Creator and Gumiho in offline qualifiers at IEM, lost vs Neeb in Ro16 of WESG, lost vs Heromarine in groupstage of WCS Winter and lost his first match vs Marinelord (!) in WCS Spring. I really like Reynor and I think he can rise to the very top but he still hasn't proven his excellence vs. thoughest competition this year so far. On April 28 2019 21:47 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 20:19 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:06 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:59 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 19:56 Geo.Rion wrote:
[quote]
Feel free to explain how Stats has better tournament results in the past 6 months than the 6 people behind him
did you miss IEM Katowice? I didnt, it was won by #9. Neither had any notable results since then. Stats went out as 4th in the first group stage in code S, and 3-0d in the 2nd round of ST. and he beat the GSL winner who had previously smashed the 3 best PvTers back-to back-to back -no results. And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament.... right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice... Katowice(and Stats' results in 2018) explains why he already was in the list, the point here is why he didn't drop positions this month. Well, I'm not arguing exactly for Stats being ranked that high but I can understand the logic and don't think it's wrong per se. The only result of Stats since his great performance at IEM is GSL ST. The question would be: did he look bad enough at this tournament that one should think he's gotten worse? His win vs Maru who recently won vs all the top Protosses and threw a very effective and surprising mech style against him was really impressive. Not only because of the bare result but also because of his demonstrated skill ingame. He just played incredibly good and adjusted to Maru very well. Then he lost to Gumiho who made it to the finals. Can we say he's gotten worse because of this performance? Or isn't a Ro8 finish what you'd expect from a top4-player facing a really strong opponent in a tourney where almost all top10-players are participating? Serral got the benefit of the doubt in earlier PRs this year, Maru as well. It's just reasonable to do the same with Stats now. I would not necessarily have made Stats drop positions(most likely, especially because Gumiho 3-0d him while he was clearly favored), but it's weird that he didn't because it doesn't seem consistent with the criteria applied to other people on this list. Also, Gumiho jumping in at #5 seems excessive to me just as it is to leave Neeb out of this list(he'd deserve it over Dear, even at #10). I don't see the inconsistency: Serral had his chance to make a point for his case but he didn't and thus he got ranked lower after two PRs in which he was credited with the benefit of the doubt. Stats just made his point for the last PR and thus he also gets the benefit of the doubt now like Serral did. Same goes for Dark. I think that Dear over Neeb is reasonable, considering that Dear made it to Ro8 in both IEM and GSL after topping his tough groups while Neeb struggled to do so in IEM and WESG (which was the easier tournament). Losing to Zest in PvP in a Ro16 isn't enough information to instantly kick Dear down while Neeb did what he has to do at least to be considered somewhere near the top 10: win WCS winter NA. But yeah - Neeb, Dear, Inno and soO probably could be shuffled around. Gumiho being ranked 5th is a bold statement but it fits well in the recent PRs with soO instantly getting #1 after IEM and Maru now being 1# because of GSL. Also Inno got ranked #5 after his WESG victory, too.
Serral was never given the benefit of the doubt: soO was skyrocketed at #1 from nowhere after Katowice, and the second place at WESG justified Serral not regressing any further in the following list; it's appropriate to scale him down after his losses this month, but I still see him in top5.
Dark's month was disappointing, I would have had him drop more than two places.
Inno got ranked #5, but now there is one more month of results in 2019 so it would be logical for Gumiho to enter the PR at least one step lower.
Maru's progression is fine, he was just ranked too high in the last PR(and Classic maybe too low).
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Ha ha OP needs to bring up those mech builds to justify giving Maru #1. First time a build appears in a Power rank?
Classic #1 easily, the rest I am mostly ok with.
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On April 29 2019 06:01 Xamo wrote:
Ha ha OP needs to bring up those mech builds to justify giving Maru #1. First time a build appears in a Power rank?
Classic #1 easily, the rest I am mostly ok with.
I agree, really not sure how Classic has been overlooked here. He clearly has the better results for the month and it's not like you can draw on anything else from 2019 to justify Marus ranking above Classic.
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I'm fine with Maru #1 and Classic #2 tbh
GSL Code S is the crown jewel of GSL circuit, and Maru dominated en route to winning it, including beating Classic.
Maru's ST run was cut short by stats, but it was a close series and it was against, at worst, a Top 2 protoss in the world.
So Maru had the more prestigious tournament win, and the H2H win over classic
And then there is the eye test. Maru NEVER looked weak/like the underdog in any of the matches he played, even when he lost to stats. Maru and stats looked equal. in fact if i had to bet money, stats is the only protoss player who couldve stopped what maru brought to that game imo.
As impressive as classic was against that death row of zerg players, sOs, and gumiho, he look eclipsed when he faced Maru
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On April 29 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote:
I'm fine with Maru #1 and Classic #2 tbh
GSL Code S is the crown jewel of GSL circuit, and Maru dominated en route to winning it, including beating Classic.
Maru's ST run was cut short by stats, but it was a close series and it was against, at worst, a Top 2 protoss in the world.
So Maru had the more prestigious tournament win, and the H2H win over classic
And then there is the eye test. Maru NEVER looked weak/like the underdog in any of the matches he played, even when he lost to stats. Maru and stats looked equal. in fact if i had to bet money, stats is the only protoss player who couldve stopped what maru brought to that game imo.
As impressive as classic was against that death row of zerg players, sOs, and gumiho, he look eclipsed when he faced Maru
You're reinforcing my view that Maru is held to a different standard.. Innovation and soO both tumbled down the PR after their losses in subsequent tournaments after winning WESG/IEM.
There's a lot of gloss for 4x GSL in a row, deservedly so, but again my view is that the odds are somewhat stacked for defending champ and people remaining in the only teamhouse left.
Also sOs and Trap at a minimum could have held those builds because they would have helped create them. Stats held it despite probably never playing against that style before.
I love TL writers despite my opinion of power rankings though.
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On April 29 2019 06:43 Dave4 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote:
I'm fine with Maru #1 and Classic #2 tbh
GSL Code S is the crown jewel of GSL circuit, and Maru dominated en route to winning it, including beating Classic.
Maru's ST run was cut short by stats, but it was a close series and it was against, at worst, a Top 2 protoss in the world.
So Maru had the more prestigious tournament win, and the H2H win over classic
And then there is the eye test. Maru NEVER looked weak/like the underdog in any of the matches he played, even when he lost to stats. Maru and stats looked equal. in fact if i had to bet money, stats is the only protoss player who couldve stopped what maru brought to that game imo.
As impressive as classic was against that death row of zerg players, sOs, and gumiho, he look eclipsed when he faced Maru You're reinforcing my view that Maru is held to a different standard.. Innovation and soO both tumbled down the PR after their losses in subsequent tournaments after winning WESG/IEM. There's a lot of gloss for 4x GSL in a row, deservedly so, but again my view is that the odds are somewhat stacked for defending champ and people remaining in the only teamhouse left. Also sOs and Trap at a minimum could have held those builds because they would have helped create them. Stats held it despite probably never playing against that style before. I love TL writers despite my opinion of power rankings though.
Innovation and soo's cases are different
If maru plays really badly in may (like soo and innovation did the months after they won their tournaments), let's see if he tumbles
I don't think Maru was ranked no. 1 because of his code s win's last year. Maru just looked ridiculously strong in april. I do think Maru has an advantage (I think terran is broken, but that's another discussion) but it still doesnt change the fact that he looks like the most powerful player to me at the moment. In april, Maru looked unstoppable and the one loss he had was a close one against a none other than stats. He easily won against the other no. 1 contender in classic too.
Maru simply never looked outmatched in April and dominated the most prestigious/hardest tournament of the year so far
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On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list.
That's not how power ranks work lol.
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How can you make a case for Classic being above Maru when Maru heavily outclassed him in the finals? That wasnt even close.
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On April 29 2019 08:59 IshinShishi wrote:
How can you make a case for Classic being above Maru when Maru heavily outclassed him in the finals? That wasnt even close.
at this point they really need to put a breakdown of why "player A beating player B in a series doesn't automatically mean they're a higher rank," in the OP of these, maybe with a graphic for people who need visual aids
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On April 29 2019 05:52 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 04:19 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 29 2019 01:10 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 22:47 fronkschnonk wrote:On April 28 2019 20:31 MockHamill wrote:
If Blizzcon was right now who would you put your money on?
It still comes down to Maru or Serral.
So this powerrank is clearly wrong, Serral should at least be number 2. Also Reynor is better than most Koreans on that list. Serral clearly can't be that high on the list. He didn't win anything this year. He made two finals appearances only in mediocre tournaments (WCS and WESG). He lost to soO Neeb, Inno twice, Reynor twice and big Gabe, showing weaknesses in all matchups. Is he bad? Certainly not. But his lack of results can't be tarnished by his 2018 success anymore. The idea of ranking Reynor as high as many are demanding is kind of weird. He has shown that he is excellent in ZvZ but he lost vs Creator and Gumiho in offline qualifiers at IEM, lost vs Neeb in Ro16 of WESG, lost vs Heromarine in groupstage of WCS Winter and lost his first match vs Marinelord (!) in WCS Spring. I really like Reynor and I think he can rise to the very top but he still hasn't proven his excellence vs. thoughest competition this year so far. On April 28 2019 21:47 Xain0n wrote:On April 28 2019 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 20:19 Charoisaur wrote:On April 28 2019 20:06 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 28 2019 19:59 Charoisaur wrote:
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did you miss IEM Katowice? I didnt, it was won by #9. Neither had any notable results since then. Stats went out as 4th in the first group stage in code S, and 3-0d in the 2nd round of ST. and he beat the GSL winner who had previously smashed the 3 best PvTers back-to back-to back -no results. And we're back to my first point, he got 4th based on 1 close (first round) series+ bias . But then u'll say again that it s not about a single tournament.... right, because he got 2nd at IEM Katowice... Katowice(and Stats' results in 2018) explains why he already was in the list, the point here is why he didn't drop positions this month. Well, I'm not arguing exactly for Stats being ranked that high but I can understand the logic and don't think it's wrong per se. The only result of Stats since his great performance at IEM is GSL ST. The question would be: did he look bad enough at this tournament that one should think he's gotten worse? His win vs Maru who recently won vs all the top Protosses and threw a very effective and surprising mech style against him was really impressive. Not only because of the bare result but also because of his demonstrated skill ingame. He just played incredibly good and adjusted to Maru very well. Then he lost to Gumiho who made it to the finals. Can we say he's gotten worse because of this performance? Or isn't a Ro8 finish what you'd expect from a top4-player facing a really strong opponent in a tourney where almost all top10-players are participating? Serral got the benefit of the doubt in earlier PRs this year, Maru as well. It's just reasonable to do the same with Stats now. I would not necessarily have made Stats drop positions(most likely, especially because Gumiho 3-0d him while he was clearly favored), but it's weird that he didn't because it doesn't seem consistent with the criteria applied to other people on this list. Also, Gumiho jumping in at #5 seems excessive to me just as it is to leave Neeb out of this list(he'd deserve it over Dear, even at #10). I don't see the inconsistency: Serral had his chance to make a point for his case but he didn't and thus he got ranked lower after two PRs in which he was credited with the benefit of the doubt. Stats just made his point for the last PR and thus he also gets the benefit of the doubt now like Serral did. Same goes for Dark. I think that Dear over Neeb is reasonable, considering that Dear made it to Ro8 in both IEM and GSL after topping his tough groups while Neeb struggled to do so in IEM and WESG (which was the easier tournament). Losing to Zest in PvP in a Ro16 isn't enough information to instantly kick Dear down while Neeb did what he has to do at least to be considered somewhere near the top 10: win WCS winter NA. But yeah - Neeb, Dear, Inno and soO probably could be shuffled around. Gumiho being ranked 5th is a bold statement but it fits well in the recent PRs with soO instantly getting #1 after IEM and Maru now being 1# because of GSL. Also Inno got ranked #5 after his WESG victory, too. Serral was never given the benefit of the doubt: soO was skyrocketed at #1 from nowhere after Katowice, and the second place at WESG justified Serral not regressing any further in the following list; it's appropriate to scale him down after his losses this month, but I still see him in top5. Dark's month was disappointing, I would have had him drop more than two places. Inno got ranked #5, but now there is one more month of results in 2019 so it would be logical for Gumiho to enter the PR at least one step lower. Maru's progression is fine, he was just ranked too high in the last PR(and Classic maybe too low).
Now you're denying facts for the sake of your argument. Of course Serral was given the benefit of the doubt. He got ranked #2 in the march PR after finishing in the Ro8 at IEM and losing to Inno in group stage. And he still got ranked #3 after losing to Reynor and Heromarine in group stage of WCS Winter and being beaten by Neeb in group stage of WESG (where he also made a case for himself by finishing 2nd). There are good arguments for having Serral still ranked that high back then, which includes that it seemed reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Dark month was disappointing, that's true. But after having rightfully earned a consistency #1 in the last PR it is consistent to give him the benefit of the doubt like it was done with Serral, Stats and Maru.
How does being one month more into the year affect the PR? Most recent results are still the highest valued factor in PRs.
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EPT
